Why are you looking at bulges underneath guys belts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
Printable View
Why are you looking at bulges underneath guys belts?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
Maybe I am wrong. Like I said I'm with people who carry all the time and maybe I have an eye for it, so yes I do see people/ notice people on the streets who carry.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
and there's still the question of whether the gunmen or the brave marine acted as the hero that day. Seems like an unarmed marine saved the day, but I guess yoni knows best as always.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Wow are you kidding me? You don't think there is a way to track the number of crimes committed by CHL holders and compare it to the overall rate of crimes committed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
You think that if the stats favored them anti gun lobbyists wouldn't be presenting them all over the place? The very fact that they're not presenting data that is incredibly easy to obtain (you can start by looking at how many CHLs are revoked for committing a crime for one) is very telling in and of itself.
Furthermore, are you simply acknowledging that your views are not made based upon facts but rather reactionary?
So you currently see a person with a weapon and you automatically assume they're allowed to carry it? What?Quote:
Commonplace was bad word usage because truth is it doesn't have to be commonplace. If I see a person carrying a firearm I assume they have a CHL as opposed to not. And why would I think differently? The fact that guns are allowed on campus makes it easier for anyone and everyone to have guns on campus, legal or not.
Also, if this is already your view then how in the hell would additional legislation help foster a view that YOU ALREADY HAVE?
In any event, I think its safe to say most people do the exact opposite of you and seeing a plain clothes citizen with a gun sets off alarm bells. CHL license don't allow you to walk around brandishing a weapon so this is a completely fabricated fear based in god knows what reality.
So your first point in this thread is to say that you can't find stats on crimes committed by CHL holders and your last is to say they are more likely to commit violent crimes?Quote:
The thing is my worst case scenarios aren't far fetched at all. Guns present make violence much easier.
:lmao
You can't make this shit up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
I guess that most people see the bulge in my pants and just assume I'm carrying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
Its true that I'm packing heat but its not a gun.
This is the weirdest fear I've ever heard of in a gun debate, to be quite honest. I think its safe to say that the CHL law has not people somehow ok with the open brandishing of a weapon.
I know its really hard to find statistics like this but here are some gun control statistics I found using the hard to imagine phrase "concealed handgun crime statistics" into google.
http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp#right-to-carry
in each of these stories the mass murderer mass murdered with a handgun and was subdued by off-duty cops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Texas itself keeps statistics of convictions by CHL holders.
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/adminis.../convrates.htm
The gunman was approached by the unarmed student only after he dropped his weapon after being confronted by the two armed students who both trained their weapons on him and demanded his drop his. When the unarmed student approached, the gunman attacked him and the other two re-holstered and help subdue the gunman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
I know, you probably got your facts from one of the 88 (out of 90) stories that neglected to mention that fact.
Quote:
He and Gross both approached Odighizuwa at the same time from different directions. Both were pointing their weapons at him. Bridges yelled for Odighizuwa to drop his weapon. When the shooter realized they had the drop on him he threw his weapon down. A third student, unarmed, Ted Besen, approached the killer and was physically attacked.
But Odighizuwa was now disarmed. The three students were able to restrain him and held him for the police. Odighizuwa is now in prison for the murders he committed. His killing spree ended when he faced two students with weapons. There would be no further victims that day, thanks to armed resistance.
You wouldn’t know much about that though. Do you wonder why? The media, though it widely reported the attack left out the fact that Bridges and Gross were armed. Most simply reported that the gunman was jumped and subdued by other students. That two of those students were now armed didn’t get a mention.
James Eaves-Johnson wrote about this fact one week later in The Daily Iowan [story no longer available or I would link it]. He wrote: “A Lexus-Nexis search revealed 88 stories on the topic, of which only two mentioned that either Bridges or Gross was armed.” This 2002 article noted “This was a very public shooting with a lot of media coverage.” But the media left out information showing how two students with firearms ended the killing spree.
[QUOTE=MannyIsGod;4989935]Wow are you kidding me? You don't think there is a way to track the number of crimes committed by CHL holders and compare it to the overall rate of crimes committed?[quote]
You said CHL members who are students. If you know where then present then yourself and prove me wrong.
I can't speak for the anti-gun lobbyists or pretend to know what they do or don't present. I'm not one of them by any means.Quote:
You think that if the stats favored them anti gun lobbyists wouldn't be presenting them all over the place? The very fact that they're not presenting data that is incredibly easy to obtain (you can start by looking at how many CHLs are revoked for committing a crime for one) is very telling in and of itself.
Sure. Where are the facts that prove allowing guns on campus makes everyone safer? If you have them please prove me wrong.Quote:
Furthermore, are you simply acknowledging that your views are not made based upon facts but rather reactionary?
We are in Texas. Lots of people have weapons. It's not that uncommon at all.Quote:
So you currently see a person with a weapon and you automatically assume they're allowed to carry it? What?
Who said anything about brandishing a weapon?Quote:
In any event, I think its safe to say most people do the exact opposite of you and seeing a plain clothes citizen with a gun sets off alarm bells. CHL license don't allow you to walk around brandishing a weapon so this is a completely fabricated fear based in god knows what reality.
You're making this all up at this point. Where did I say CHL holders are more likely to commit crimes?Quote:
So your first point in this thread is to say that you can't find stats on crimes committed by CHL holders and your last is to say they are more likely to commit violent crimes?
Assistant Principal Myrick isn't an off-duty cop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
In theory, I think it's the right thing to do, but it's basically a formality. I would guess there are very few college students will take advantage of the legal opportunity to carry a CHL who weren't already carrying one around before.
For a lot of students, finding out a peer is packing heat is still going to stigmatize them to some extent on a lot of campuses. I don't see it exactly becoming a trend...
Some odd stats in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
That's actually a really interesting website. It doesn't say anything about demographics but it's still interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Ya, the Child sexual assault was kinda odd.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
okay, but the shooter had already killed three and injured seven and was in his vehicle headed away from campus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
I've given you links above. You could take the amount of total crimes comitted by CHL holders without even subtracting those who are not students and compare it to the average crime rate of students and its going to be much lower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
Do you understand that you don't even need to remove the non students for my point to be made? You could look at the crimes committed by all CHL holders and compare them to the average age breakdown of students and its not even close.
You want me to prove that something that currently is not legal is better with statistics?Quote:
I can't speak for the anti-gun lobbyists or pretend to know what they do or don't present. I'm not one of them by any means.
Sure. Where are the facts that prove allowing guns on campus makes everyone safer? If you have them please prove me wrong.
Jesus Christ.
Aside from that, why does that even need to be proven? The burden of proof here is to prove that it would be a more dangerous situation. Whether or not it makes thing safer or maintains status quo is irrelevant because if it does not make things any more dangerous then there is no reason to make it illegal.
What? Yes, it is.Quote:
We are in Texas. Lots of people have weapons. It's not that uncommon at all.
Unlike you most people do not equate bulges with guns. The only way the average person is going to know a CHL holder is carrying a gun near them is by openly brandishing that weapon. You don't seem to understand this.Quote:
Who said anything about brandishing a weapon?
You don't even realize the argument that you put forward. You said that violent acts are made more prevalent by guns in a thread about CHL holders. If you're not referring to CHL holders in your comment then your comment is completely irrelevant because this law only applies to CHL holders.Quote:
You're making this all up at this point. Where did I say CHL holders are more likely to commit crimes?
I think you underestimate how closely CHL holders follow the law. I really doubt there are a large number of CHL holders illegally carrying on campus and the numbers on convictions back me up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
I guess we should take a wait and see attitude on this topic. hopefully we'll never have to see. (btw: I doubt it becomes law.)
It doen't need to. The number of violations for CHL holders is already so damn small breaking them up further is absolutely statistically meaningless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vici
To another school to do the same thing all over again...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
Which ones struck you as odd?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
CHL holders comprise about 1.86% of the Texas Population. That number alone destroys so many of Vici's arguments, but if they commit crimes at the rate of the rest of the population they should compromise 1.86 of convictions. They fail to even come close in every category with the exception of convictions of breaking a law that requires you be a CHL holder in the first place.
I don't think there are a large number either, I'm just saying I don't think there will be a lot of them when it's legal either.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod