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I Know librarians do a lot of different things, my point is that just as teaching has to transform to meet the needs of today's kids, so do libraries...think of the opportunities minority kids would have to read if you put 1000s of novels into their hands....that's the choice schools may have to make someday, fund 1000s of books per kid, or 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekka
Sorry, but your point wasn't that they had to adapt your point was that their job could be done by someone with much lower qualifications. Librarians have adapted an incredible amount. Jekka's masters program had a lot in common with a computer science program from many aspects so maybe its time for you to just admit you're not all that well versed on what librarians do before Ploto and Jekka gang up on you.
I won't go into my qualifications, but I am better versed than you. I do think that a lot that librarians do can be done by para-professionals, although we can legitimately argue about your vision and my vision of what a future librarian will do...as libraries transform, so will the job of Librarians...and I have degrees in computer science and Mathematics....so what?Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Dan, I found that extremely funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Are you better versed than Jekka and Ploto?
What aspects of the job could be handled by a paraprofessional?
Should also get Midge in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Damn boy, you don't think much of that profession, do you? Did you really just equate a librarian to an employee at Barnes and Noble?
Don't forget his other advanced message board degrees in 19th century French Literature, Astrophysics, and Ancient Philosophy, which clearly qualify him to misunderstand what it is a librarian actually does.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I hadn't really followed this thread. I just looked up a few facts on Finland though. Their population is that of a small US state. Their four major parties constitute about 80% of the seats, rather than 2 parties almost 100%. They are like us in that they are a representative democracy. They simply act more like one of our better well run states. For their size, it works great. In our case, we have a massive federal government that shreds states rights, and pushes lowest common denominator laws and regulations. Our schools have been lacking ever since the department of education was formed under President Carter.
Why...
Lowest common denominator attitudes.
Libraries haven't been all that highly prioritized since people started being able to access things at home and stopped spending as much physical time in the buildings (out of sight, out of mind), and funding has subsequently stagnated, so if they don't have to pay a professional librarian to do something, they won't. All of paraprofessionals are called Library Assistants or Library Aides and they get paid like shit, btw (as a Library Assistant at the SA public library, my position required a bachelors and paid less than $29k/y for full time work). There is an important distinction between library workers, who may or may not be paraprofessionals, and librarians, who are required to have ALA-accredited masters degrees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
I heard this a lot in undergrad: "But everything is online now." And a lot of stuff is, but who do you think is providing access and actually translating and creating the content? Those jobs, which require professionals, are where the growth is in libraries, and it's largely behind the scenes. No one should dispute that a librarian's job has changed over the years, and no one should dispute that some of the things a librarian does can be done by a paraprofessional. I challenge you to find a librarian who doesn't think we need more paraprofessionals - I would LOVE it if people would leave me alone long enough for me to do my job without having to answer questions about how to use the copier or pointing out the restrooms.
Also, speaking from experience, the more services that are offered the more people need guides to them, and the more librarians we need who can address issues of user accessibility and HCI. I agree that we need more paraprofessionals in libraries, but if you're attempting to assert that we don't need as many librarians as we do now, I disagree.
We do put thousands of novels into their hands now, and will continue to in the future with the aid of projects like Google Books and the expansion of funding for e-readers and e-books. Libraries are already going there. Even the craptastic place that I work that loses funding EVERY YEAR has e-readers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
Regarding novels and other texts, a huge percentage of things that are in the public domain at this point are already online and freely accessible to anyone who can get to a computer with internet access. Try Project Gutenberg or the HathiTrust. Libraries are at the forefront of all of those open access projects.
There's not a public school library out there (excluding universities) that funds 1000s of books per student - no one has the funding for that sort of acquisitions program. There are public school libraries out there who may not even add 1 non-textbook book per student per year to their library's collection. A book only has to be funded for its initial purchase, unlike database subscriptions which have to be continuously funded. But take a middle school with 1000 students - I have a really hard time believing that a middle school library is even adding 1000 books every year, at least not without the help of isolated grant funding.
You're talking about opportunities for minority kids - the biggest problem is not the resources available to them. There is so much available for free now from every computer with internet access. There are public libraries who fight every day just to exist that would LOVE to put books into those kids' hands, who would LOVE to see their resources used for education purposes. I had several groups of middle school kids come through my college library for tours the other day, and in MIDDLE SCHOOL they had no idea of what libraries actually do. In New Mexico, there need only be one masters-holding librarian per school district in order for the library program to be state-accredited. They have all the resources in the world available to them, and no one who knows how to show them what to do with them.
This is a problem that is so much bigger than buying novels.
Ha! ...funny...Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Kinda leaning toward engineering though...
I see the nature of 'how' kids read evolving.....many kids read better off the computer today than they do from books.....so why not give kids e-readers with 1000's of novels ready to read....Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
What we do know right now is that the status quo ain't working....
...Librarians do a lot of different jobs.....what can be handled by a para depends on the school....
Yeah, our schools were great before Carter!Quote:
Our schools have been lacking ever since the department of education was formed under President Carter.
:lol
The big problem today is NCLB....that's your boy...
....like the right to own slavesQuote:
In our case, we have a massive federal government that shreds states rights
I think as e-readers slip below $50, students will be able to download almost all the information they need, including 100s of novels at a time...go to any library in any school and I guarantee you every computer will be occupied with students researching or reading, while only a handful will be actually reading a book...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekka
...perhaps Libraries will evolve into a blockbuster type setup where empty cases of novels with book descriptions entice students to read certain books on their e-reader...
I really think access would help.....in many schools the prevailing attitude unfortunately is that being smart ain't cool....so 'cool' kids don't read books...but they especially don't check out stacks of books....these kids don't have a lot to do.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekka
Your library revolution took place a while back. I'm not sure you realize that most of what you think librarians should evolve into already happened.
You ain't seen nothing yet....Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Pretty soon a bumm under the I35 bridge will have access to more books than in our grandest libraries today...
What good is access to all that material if you can't find the information you need within the collection? That's where us library niggas step in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
I hate this forum and will probably not come back to read any responses. Nbadan is stupid. Ploto and Jekka are cool. That's my official stance, but just on the library thing. I don't know shit about him as a poster but I'm sure he's one of those that's right no matter what.
They already do. Walk into the public library, get on a computer, and access books that are already online and free.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nbadan
And just think, someday the Internet will be available on your cell.
Po' kids don't have computers with internet at home... are you that naive?Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Um, they have access to the internet at the public...wait for it.....
wait for it....
wait for it....
Library.
Oh Reilly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
http://10gui.com/video/