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Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Not including last night's game:
Code:
Month MPG FGP FGA/36 PPG RPG APG
October 27.5 0.647 11.1 17.0 3.0 2.5
November 32.6 0.486 10.7 14.7 3.6 1.3
December 32.0 0.455 10.9 12.0 5.5 1.5
January 29.7 0.461 9.3 9.6 4.0 1.3
February 31.1 0.500 7.5 9.4 2.8 1.4
March 26.2 0.565 6.3 7.6 2.6 0.6
Percentage is still decent, but he's simply not being aggressive enough. It would be okay if the Spurs were getting great defense out of him, but while that has been an improvement over last year, it's not like he's locking down people. Rebounding has taken a significant nosedive, too.
If the Spurs plan on winning by offense, they're going to need to start getting more from him.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I said this awhile back and people scoffed me and said he was just in a slump. He came out strong and heard all the "Jefferson for MIP!" talk and now he's content to just be a jumpshooter again because other fans think he's been better based on his early play but the truth is he's been shit for awhile now. But he has been clutch at times, hitting timely 3 pointers.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I don't think he's been shit. Shit would be those numbers with a 38% shooting percentage. He's become too content with either hanging around the perimeter, or half-hearted drives where he doesn't try to draw fouls and looks to pass the ball out at the slightest opportunity.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Look at Neals and Blairs numbers compared to his and I think you'll see where the production has gone.
I honestly think RJ does fine. He spreads the floor but really he's probably just in the right spot as far as order of production goes.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Whoah, I knew it was bad but I didn't realize it was that bad. He definitely needs to step up his aggressiveness. At least we've continued to win. I wonder what's going on with him.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
It's not enough to have RJ do "fine" imo. I have used the term with him and I have used it often. He "floats". He is content just being out there and not messing up. Not messing up does not mean you are helpful.
He doen't get paid to float. He gets paid to be an impact player. If you look at LA and the talent they have, talent wins. RJ's talent has to show through and he has to be a major part. He can't just "not hurt" the Spurs.
With those scoring numbers and lack luster defense, his rebounding should have sky rocketed. He is one of THE BIGGEST problems Spurs have with regards to rebounding.
Spurs can still win a ton of regular season games with him just hanging around and not doing much, but if a title is the goal, then it's no where near enough IMO.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShoogarBear
Not including last night's game:
Code:
Month MPG FGP FGA/36 PPG RPG APG
October 27.5 0.647 11.1 17.0 3.0 2.5
November 32.6 0.486 10.7 14.7 3.6 1.3
December 32.0 0.455 10.9 12.0 5.5 1.5
January 29.7 0.461 9.3 9.6 4.0 1.3
February 31.1 0.500 7.5 9.4 2.8 1.4
March 26.2 0.565 6.3 7.6 2.6 0.6
Percentage is still decent, but he's simply not being aggressive enough. It would be okay if the Spurs were getting great defense out of him, but while that has been an improvement over last year, it's not like he's locking down people. Rebounding has taken a significant nosedive, too.
If the Spurs plan on winning by offense, they're going to need to start getting more from him.
Adding the spurs record :
Code:
Month MPG FGP FGA/36 PPG RPG APG Rec
October 27.5 0.647 11.1 17.0 3.0 2.5 1-1
November 32.6 0.486 10.7 14.7 3.6 1.3 14-1
December 32.0 0.455 10.9 12.0 5.5 1.5 13-2
January 29.7 0.461 9.3 9.6 4.0 1.3 12-3
February 31.1 0.500 7.5 9.4 2.8 1.4 9-3
March 26.2 0.565 6.3 7.6 2.6 0.6 5-2
The reccord is a little bit worse every month.
It's still very good record each month but the spurs played definitely better early in the season when RJ was aggressive
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
You have to believe the coaching staff is in his grill about this. He was rocking along early in the year. Nailing 3's from the corner, etc.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Good find Shoog. It's felt like RJ's been less aggressive as the year has gone on. Interesting though how's he's been still shooting the ball great. I'm sure the coaches are aware and will right this ship for the post season.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
His lack of aggression is cause for concern.
But like I keep telling pego and mookie, he still tends to hit that wide open 3 pointer (1st Q, 4th Q, no matter what Quarter) way more often than not, even in his unaggressive state.
So I will take that, and just keep my fingers crossed that he keeps hitting those open 3's and will up the aggression in the playoffs.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
lol second year. Guess it only works for part of the season then gradually wears off.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Cue the "but no plays are called for him" arguments.
:rolleyes
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Last night was a prime example of what RJ needs to do more. I agree with everything DPG said. RJ is not Michael Finley or Keith Bogans. Giving him a play won't stall the offense. He needs to be aggressive.
Besides RJ, what about George Hill? Is anyone worried that this guy will be a non-factor in the playoffs?
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I thought he tried to drive in the last two games, and got himself to the line. Not quite what he was early in the season but an improvement compared to last week.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I think his agression has regressed, but it also has to do with the team going back to more halfcourt sets and running less.
Luckily for us, Pop can adress both things during the week off that we'll have before the Playoffs.
In any case, he has not hurted the team and others (Blair, Neal and Hill) have taken over his agresiveness slack.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ could be more aggressive offensively, but with the team looking at cruising into having HCA throughout the playoffs, do we need to assess blame on why we aren't averaging another 10 pts per game?
Maybe if we go down in a playoff series it'd be useful for finding someone to blame, but right now is probably not the time for it. Why RJ? We could do the same for Tim, we could look at all sorts of stats and say he needs to suck it up and start producing.
Fact is, RJ's reduced points are being made up from a variety of teammates, namely Gary Neal. So if RJ was still going at his October ppg clip of 17, that pretty much runs Neal dry on shot attempts, unless you want Manu, TP, Hill taking less shots so that Neal gets his.
That said, I agree with your comments on RJ's defense. He has the athleticism and ability to do a lot more on defense than he currently is doing. We'll need lots more from him if we want to win the WCF and Finals. That effort and ability is refined during the regular season, not turned on in the playoffs. We need RJ to become that defensive stopper and not so much on the offensive end. We have lots of fire power. We need teams fearing him defensively.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I just think the Spurs have too many damn scoring options for RJ to be even more aggressive and up that PPG average. At any given time TD, TP, Manu, Neal, and Hill can all drop 10 or more points in a quarter if they get hot. But I think if called upon or if they run a couple more plays for him his numbers would look better. I think we all saw what RJ is capable of in that Game 2 win against Dallas last year when RJ exploded in the 1st half...
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ definitely needs to turn it back up a notch going into the playoffs. He has been a lot less aggressive and a lot more lackadaisical for the past couple months. Saying that, I don't think he's been "shit" and it seems like he has been more aggressive with the ball when he has it these last 3 games or so.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I'd like to see the Spurs approach a game with some urgency and focus. The Spurs spend too much time acting like things aren't important and Pop spends too much time playing mind games and being a smartass when asked about things. RJ had something to prove and the Spurs had a mission early in the season. They've coasted since the all-star break; they either need to just rest everyone starting now or just decide that this is the time to start ratcheting up the intensity.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
By intensity, are we talking a change in minutes played by the starters?
If so, I don't think we need to do that with 16 games to go in the reg season. I think we've been blessed to have the depth we have and use it all season long to rest our starters and still win games. I think we continue that formula into the playoffs and then increase the starters minutes when the need arises.
If by intensity we mean effort, then yeah, somewhat. This team has tons of players with championship rings. No one criticized Horry for his pacing in those championship years. I think this team will rise to the challenge of the playoffs.
Pop doesn't let them lose focus on our strategy of a team first attitude and so they have that ingrained all season long. This team is hungry and they know if this year isn't it, it'll be a while for the next opportunity. They won't leave anything on the floor come playoffs... when the horn sounds, it'll be all spent.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
They've coasted since the all-star break;
They've coasted since mid January, tbh. With the possible exception of the Heat game and maybe one or two others.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
The Spurs played pretty well in the first quarter against the Heat and then gave up 40 points in the second. I don't remember the last 48 minute effort by the Spurs.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bluebellmaniac
By intensity, are we talking a change in minutes played by the starters?
Not directly. Playing with more focus and intensity will probably lead to fewer minutes for the starters because the games will be put away sooner. That's exactly how to take advantage of their depth. That requires that the second unit play well too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bluebellmaniac
If so, I don't think we need to do that with 16 games to go in the reg season. I think we've been blessed to have the depth we have and use it all season long to rest our starters and still win games. I think we continue that formula into the playoffs and then increase the starters minutes when the need arises.
Don't know if you've noticed, but the Spurs ('we', 'us') are not playing the same basketball they were playing in December. If they aren't going to get out of this rut and get some good work habits back, then they need to rest now and decide to use the last week of the season to try to right the ship. I don't think they need to go playoff intensity for sixteen games, but I'd like to see them put one good game together at some point where they go hard for rebounds, defend,get out and run, and stop letting teams back into the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bluebellmaniac
If by intensity we mean effort, then yeah, somewhat. This team has tons of players with championship rings. No one criticized Horry for his pacing in those championship years. I think this team will rise to the challenge of the playoffs.
Pop doesn't let them lose focus on our strategy of a team first attitude and so they have that ingrained all season long. This team is hungry and they know if this year isn't it, it'll be a while for the next opportunity. They won't leave anything on the floor come playoffs... when the horn sounds, it'll be all spent.
I saw a team leave a lot on the floor against Phoenix last year, and there were the exact same number of championship rings as this year, so all that is out the window. At some point they either need to flip the switch or rest. Having to play deep into the fourth quarter against bad teams because they can't grab a defensive rebound or defend in the paint wastes energy and doesn't prepare them for the postseason.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ will be fine. His dips in offensive production are attributed for purposeful refocusing on trying to get other players involved in the scheme (Blair, Hill, Neal . . .) by the coaching staff. RJ is naturally going to be the one who loses touches.
I think he has been solid defensively. Especially in games where he has a marquee matchup (Durant, James, Artest . . .). He has had some games where his focus has been off, but all the Spurs are guilty of that.
I don't think RJ or Pop are going to let the fruits of their labor go to waste.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
The other Spurs are not lacking fault in all of this. They simply are not getting Jefferson involved in the offense.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohmwrecker
RJ will be fine. His dips in offensive production are attributed for purposeful refocusing on trying to get other players involved in the scheme (Blair, Hill, Neal . . .) by the coaching staff. RJ is naturally going to be the one who loses touches.
I think he has been solid defensively. Especially in games where he has a marquee matchup (Durant, James, Artest . . .). He has had some games where his focus has been off, but all the Spurs are guilty of that.
I don't think RJ or Pop are going to let the fruits of their labor go to waste.
Good points. The Spurs did come into the season with a little extra early focus because they didn't want to be struggling to make the playoffs like they did last year. That goal has been pretty spectacularly met, so maybe that's why they've coasted for a little longer than I'm comfortable with.
I'd still love for Pop to treat an upcoming game, or upcoming stretch of games, as their playoff tuneups. This was supposed to be the time they spent working on things getting ready for the playoffs. The only thing they're working on at the moment is pulling out close games at the end.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
So you're going to worry until the playoffs start, regardless of how they're playing? Doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
WTF happened to those RJ alley oops we used to see in every game?
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohmwrecker
RJ will be fine. His dips in offensive production are attributed for purposeful refocusing on trying to get other players involved in the scheme (Blair, Hill, Neal . . .) by the coaching staff. RJ is naturally going to be the one who loses touches.
I think he has been solid defensively. Especially in games where he has a marquee matchup (Durant, James, Artest . . .). He has had some games where his focus has been off, but all the Spurs are guilty of that.
I don't think RJ or Pop are going to let the fruits of their labor go to waste.
So what about his massive decline in rebounding and his overall obvious slippage in defense?
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
First off, RJ is obviously going through something personal, and no one knows exactly what it is. If he has been dealing with it the past 1-3 months and it has been really hard on him, that could be it.
Just wanna say I posted a thread about this way back in December, and I got flamed for it, but as usual I was spot on. Here is that amazing thread:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167228
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Spurs have so much talented offensive players that there isn't enough shoots for all these weapons. However, I agree that RJ must be more aggressive and take more shots.
When you look at the bigger picture, I've a hard time being worried about that while Spurs have a way biggest problem with their defense. I don't even see how Spurs could be close of beating Lakers with a defense that average.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Duncan, Ginobli, Parkers numbers have also dropped since start of the season. Seems like a fail thread to me, since the answer is so obvious. Spurs are too deep, and there is only so much ball to go around.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Others have made the point (only so many shots to go around). Here are some numbers.
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, RJ, Blair, Hill, and Neal have accounted for 83.8% of the team's FGAs this season. In November, those seven combined for 68.2 FGAs per game. In February they combined for 69.0 FGAs per game. Not much change. What changed was the distribution.
November
Ginobili 14.0
Parker 14.0
Duncan 11.9
RJ 9.7
Hill 6.5
Blair 6.1
Neal 5.9
February
Ginobili 13.5
Parker 12.6
Duncan 10.9
RJ 6.5
Hill 8.3
Blair 9.8
Neal 7.4
More specifically, look at the shots taken by the "minor" perimeter players:
November
RJ 9.73
Hill 6.53
Neal 5.93
Total 22.19
February
RJ 6.5
Hill 8.25
Neal 7.4
Totasl 22.15
If RJ's shot attempts are to go back up, they'll have to come at the expense of Hill and Neal. That's where they've gone.
Sorry about the (lack of) formatting.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Note also that the FGAs of all 4 vets decreased, while the FGAs of all 3 young players increased.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cessation
Duncan, Ginobli, Parkers numbers have also dropped since start of the season. Seems like a fail thread to me, since the answer is so obvious. Spurs are too deep, and there is only so much ball to go around.
Just for reference... Manu:
Code:
Oct 2 2 34.5 0.424 0.350 1.000 0.5 2.0 2.5 5.0 2.0 0.5 22.5
Nov 15 15 33.0 0.490 0.414 0.899 0.6 3.3 3.9 4.9 2.0 0.4 21.8
Dec 15 15 30.3 0.401 0.337 0.808 0.7 2.9 3.5 4.6 1.4 0.5 15.7
Jan 15 15 30.9 0.415 0.347 0.889 0.9 3.3 4.2 5.1 1.9 0.3 18.4
Feb 12 11 30.1 0.377 0.246 0.855 0.2 3.8 4.0 5.4 1.2 0.3 15.8
Mar 7 7 28.0 0.458 0.324 0.808 0.6 2.4 3.0 5.4 1.4 0.1 15.4
Tony:
Code:
Oct 2 2 32.5 0.500 0.000 1.000 0.5 3.0 3.5 6.5 1.5 0.0 16.5
Nov 15 15 34.6 0.514 0.444 0.776 0.5 3.1 3.5 7.4 1.8 0.0 17.7
Dec 15 15 32.2 0.516 0.250 0.683 0.3 2.6 2.9 6.7 1.0 0.1 18.1
Jan 15 15 31.6 0.547 0.385 0.877 0.5 2.6 3.1 6.6 1.3 0.0 16.9
Feb 12 12 30.8 0.497 0.375 0.761 0.2 2.7 2.9 5.5 0.8 0.1 15.7
Mar 5 5 30.4 0.547 0.667 0.778 0.2 1.2 1.4 6.0 1.6 0.0 20.0
Tim:
Code:
Oct 2 2 30.0 0.545 0.000 0.667 1.5 8.0 9.5 2.0 2.0 2.0 15.0
Nov 15 15 29.5 0.475 0.000 0.684 2.9 6.8 9.7 3.4 0.6 1.8 13.9
Dec 15 15 28.3 0.497 0.000 0.789 2.6 6.5 9.1 3.1 0.7 2.0 12.5
Jan 15 15 30.0 0.470 0.000 0.755 2.1 7.3 9.4 2.8 0.7 2.1 14.1
Feb 12 12 27.5 0.511 0.000 0.615 1.9 6.2 8.1 2.0 0.5 2.3 13.2
Mar 7 7 26.3 0.477 0.000 0.739 1.7 7.1 8.9 2.0 0.7 1.1 11.3
Manu and RJ have had the most dramatic dropoffs from the beginning of the year. I don't know how the Spurs survived with Manu's shooting in Dec/Jan/Feb. Hopefully they all can get revved back up as we head into the homestretch.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kori Ellis
Manu and RJ have had the most dramatic dropoffs from the beginning of the year. I don't know how the Spurs survived with Manu's shooting in Dec/Jan/Feb. Hopefully they all can get revved back up as we head into the homestretch.
I have definitely been more concerned with Manu than RJ this season because he is more essential to the team's success, but like I said earlier, the offensive production for all the players has fluctuated throughout the season. Everyone needs to gel at the right time for the best results. Like a machine.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
They've already shown how good they can be. With a comfortable lead, you're not going to see them playing close to their peak against mediocre and worse teams with still over a month until the playoffs begin. When the Lakers were doing this (and losing to a bunch of those teams; unlike the Spurs), it was "they're bored". When the Spurs do it, there's panic and constant questioning. Predictable.
The thing people have to realize is, when you have a team where all nine players in the rotation are statistically productive, not everyone can play at or near their statistical peak. If everyone on the team were maxing out on what they could realistically average, this team would be averaging at least 120 ppg, which is obviously not realistic.
I'd like to see Jefferson get to the line more and rebound slightly more, but I'd rather he shoot 12% better from three than he average 1 more point, free throw attempt and rebound per game. Don't expect him to statistically improve in the playoffs, because the big three plus McDyess will play more and they won't be pacing themselves at that point. So if, as expected, they up their production, then that leaves less of everything available for the other five in the rotation.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I don't care if Neal is getting Jefferson shots. But i trust much more in RJ than Hill shooting. Hill is great when he attacks the rim, but when it comes to a jump-shot or a 3p shot, RJ is better and should be taking more shots.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
It's not enough to have RJ do "fine" imo. I have used the term with him and I have used it often. He "floats". He is content just being out there and not messing up. Not messing up does not mean you are helpful.
He doen't get paid to float. He gets paid to be an impact player. If you look at LA and the talent they have, talent wins. RJ's talent has to show through and he has to be a major part. He can't just "not hurt" the Spurs.
With those scoring numbers and lack luster defense, his rebounding should have sky rocketed. He is one of THE BIGGEST problems Spurs have with regards to rebounding.
Spurs can still win a ton of regular season games with him just hanging around and not doing much, but if a title is the goal, then it's no where near enough IMO.
Yeah rebounding is a good point. I can recall him grabbing a ton of huge boards earlier in the season, but I don't recall him getting any lately. RJ definitely has to pick it up.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
He has had a few solid rebounds in some big moments, but the Spurs have been getting absolutely getting murdered on the glass. Regardless of touches, he needs to be more dialed in on that.
I am really surprised the Spurs have been able to win so many games with Manu & RJ not playing very well.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
They've already shown how good they can be. With a comfortable lead, you're not going to see them playing close to their peak against mediocre and worse teams with still over a month until the playoffs begin. When the Lakers were doing this (and losing to a bunch of those teams; unlike the Spurs), it was "they're bored". When the Spurs do it, there's panic and constant questioning. Predictable.
The thing people have to realize is, when you have a team where all nine players in the rotation are statistically productive, not everyone can play at or near their statistical peak. If everyone on the team were maxing out on what they could realistically average, this team would be averaging at least 120 ppg, which is obviously not realistic.
I'd like to see Jefferson get to the line more and rebound slightly more, but I'd rather he shoot 12% better from three than he average 1 more point, free throw attempt and rebound per game. Don't expect him to statistically improve in the playoffs, because the big three plus McDyess will play more and they won't be pacing themselves at that point. So if, as expected, they up their production, then that leaves less of everything available for the other five in the rotation.
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
What folks are worried about is how many players aren't playing as well as they were in December, starting with RJ. Drawing fouls and rebounding are effort and hustle type stats, and a couple of these guys are in a genuine slump and need to start trying to fight their way out of it over these last 15 games. There's not a single thing in the world unrealistic about that.
The Lakers were bored six weeks ago, and they've started to ramp it up. If Pop's starting Dice, then it's obviously a signal that he's getting the postseason rotation into place. Obviously the center that we've waited four years for isn't going to be part of that rotation, so the Spurs are going to need to be playing at a high level for four quarters to make a run.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Some rebounding numbers . . .
Team (last season to this season): 52.0% (3rd) to 50.5% (11th)
Blair: 20.6% (7th) to 19.0% (13th)
Duncan: 18.9% (T-10th) to 18.4% (T-16th)
McDyess: 16.5% (T-36th) to 16.4%
Bonner: 10.8% to 9.0%
Jefferson: 8.3% to 7.3%
Ginobili: 7.7% to 7%
Bogans/Neal: 6.6% to 7.2%
Hill: 5.3% to 5.9%
Parker: 4.6% to 5.4%
I expect the rebounding to improve, in large part, due to the change in the starting lineup. Blair's percentage inevitably dropped somewhat significantly primarily playing next to Duncan. The trickle down effect was, so did Jefferson's percentage. Theoretically, they should both pick it up now.
I don't expect them to reach last season's lofty standards, but they don't have to. The Celtics damn near won a title despite the fact that they finished last season at 49.1% (25th). The Lakers did win the title and they finished last season at 51.2% (8th). The Spurs are eminently capable of rebounding at that rate.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Yes, but both LA and BOS were much better defensively, so they could make up for their rebounding in that department.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
To be frank, those championships were won playing elite defense. What we're trying to do this season is an entirely different story.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
But it's so much more fun and personally satisfying to castigate strawmen.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
What folks are worried about is how many players aren't playing as well as they were in December, starting with RJ. Drawing fouls and rebounding are effort and hustle type stats, and a couple of these guys are in a genuine slump and need to start trying to fight their way out of it over these last 15 games. There's not a single thing in the world unrealistic about that.
The Lakers were bored six weeks ago, and they've started to ramp it up. If Pop's starting Dice, then it's obviously a signal that he's getting the postseason rotation into place. Obviously the center that we've waited four years for isn't going to be part of that rotation, so the Spurs are going to need to be playing at a high level for four quarters to make a run.
Thank you for the insight. I guess the Lakers only have to play at a high level for a quarter to make a run, because they're indestructible and the Spurs have a million problems.
Discussion doesn't bother me and I'm not the type to "blow sunshine up everyone's ass". Unlike many of you clowns, I'm a realist. It's not that it was suggested, it's that many don't factor it in period (about all of them simultaneously playing to their statistical peak).
What do you expect? They've shown how good they can be, they have nothing left to prove until the playoffs, they have five fewer losses than their closest competition, within' twenty games to go and you expect them to be playing balls to the wall against mediocre and worse competition with over a month still to go before the playoffs start? They don't get the "they're bored" excuse?
This notion that this team has umpteen major problems is ludicrous. They're good or better in every major statistical category except defending the three. But even in that, they've steadily progressed as the season has gone on. I don't see Lakers, Mavs, Celtics fans, etc. panicking constantly. If anything, they're all overconfident and either downplay or are in denial about their flaws.
DPG, the Lakers were not much better defensively. They finished last season with an efficiency rating of 101.1. The Spurs are currently at 101.4 and before their recent slide, they were in the 100s for much of the season, despite Duncan playing roughly 28 mpg and McDyess playing roughly 18 mpg.
They're a good defensive team with the capacity to be slightly better than they currently are. They don't have to be a lock down defensive team, because of how explosive and complete they are offensively. Balance wins championships and this is as balanced a team as you'll find in the league.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I'm not worried about how much RJ shoots or scores, I just want to see the effort that we saw out of him at the start of the season on the boards, and on D. ATM, apart from the odd big play, he reminds me somewhat of the lackadaisical RJ we saw last year, with the major difference being that at least he knows where to be in the system now. I'm hoping he's just been coasting and will come on strong from here on until we lift the trophy. ;)
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itzsoweezee
The other Spurs are not lacking fault in all of this. They simply are not getting Jefferson involved in the offense.
I want to see the RJ oop more often
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I agree, spurs are just coastin against bottom feeders after busting their ass to get that five game cushion.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
of course rj is not gonna get rebounds as a 3. if pop goes small, and he gets to be the 4 then he's gonna be near the paint and get the rebounds. he's out guarding the 3 on the perimeter most of the time.
watch Miami tomorrow. his assignment is gonna be 'Bron. i think he'll at the very least give the brick a hard time.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ThePop
WTF happened to those RJ alley oops we used to see in every game?
teams have scouted and adjusted to prevent that play...they have tired it but the teams big usually rotates and denies the pass.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ThePop
WTF happened to those RJ alley oops we used to see in every game?
pop stopped running that to save it for the playoffs:greedy
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kori Ellis
Just for reference... Manu:
Code:
Oct 2 2 34.5 0.424 0.350 1.000 0.5 2.0 2.5 5.0 2.0 0.5 22.5
Nov 15 15 33.0 0.490 0.414 0.899 0.6 3.3 3.9 4.9 2.0 0.4 21.8
Dec 15 15 30.3 0.401 0.337 0.808 0.7 2.9 3.5 4.6 1.4 0.5 15.7
Jan 15 15 30.9 0.415 0.347 0.889 0.9 3.3 4.2 5.1 1.9 0.3 18.4
Feb 12 11 30.1 0.377 0.246 0.855 0.2 3.8 4.0 5.4 1.2 0.3 15.8
Mar 7 7 28.0 0.458 0.324 0.808 0.6 2.4 3.0 5.4 1.4 0.1 15.4
Tony:
Code:
Oct 2 2 32.5 0.500 0.000 1.000 0.5 3.0 3.5 6.5 1.5 0.0 16.5
Nov 15 15 34.6 0.514 0.444 0.776 0.5 3.1 3.5 7.4 1.8 0.0 17.7
Dec 15 15 32.2 0.516 0.250 0.683 0.3 2.6 2.9 6.7 1.0 0.1 18.1
Jan 15 15 31.6 0.547 0.385 0.877 0.5 2.6 3.1 6.6 1.3 0.0 16.9
Feb 12 12 30.8 0.497 0.375 0.761 0.2 2.7 2.9 5.5 0.8 0.1 15.7
Mar 5 5 30.4 0.547 0.667 0.778 0.2 1.2 1.4 6.0 1.6 0.0 20.0
Tim:
Code:
Oct 2 2 30.0 0.545 0.000 0.667 1.5 8.0 9.5 2.0 2.0 2.0 15.0
Nov 15 15 29.5 0.475 0.000 0.684 2.9 6.8 9.7 3.4 0.6 1.8 13.9
Dec 15 15 28.3 0.497 0.000 0.789 2.6 6.5 9.1 3.1 0.7 2.0 12.5
Jan 15 15 30.0 0.470 0.000 0.755 2.1 7.3 9.4 2.8 0.7 2.1 14.1
Feb 12 12 27.5 0.511 0.000 0.615 1.9 6.2 8.1 2.0 0.5 2.3 13.2
Mar 7 7 26.3 0.477 0.000 0.739 1.7 7.1 8.9 2.0 0.7 1.1 11.3
Manu and RJ have had the most dramatic dropoffs from the beginning of the year. I don't know how the Spurs survived with Manu's shooting in Dec/Jan/Feb. Hopefully they all can get revved back up as we head into the homestretch.
BECAUSE THIS TEAM IS NOT MANUS TEAM:nope:nope:nope:nope:nope
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ's ability to get to the line has not been utilized nearly enough in his time as a Spur. granted, the Spurs' offense looks pretty this year, but i think come playoff time, when the defenses get better, the Spurs are going to regret to a degree not integrating RJ better offensively. he's a spot up shooter essentially when he has more ability that that.
what i'm concerned about with this team though is defense. the offense is fine as it is with some of its minor flaws. Spurs aren't going to win a championship if they can't play defense at a high level. they don't neccessarily have to play elite defense, but they have to be able to win games in the 90s and i'm not sure this team can do that on a consistent enoug basis.
since it has been made known that Tiago won't be playing a role for us this year, i'm hoping that the shortened rotation in the playoffs will be conducive to high level defense. more Dice/TD frontcourt and way less Bonner and Blair.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Shitting on RJ thread!
These adequately replace the Shitting on Brent Barry threads, the Shitting on Findog threads and the Shitting on Rasho/Nazr/Oberto/every other 4th/5th option threads. gg
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mingus
RJ's ability to get to the line has not been utilized nearly enough in his time as a Spur. granted, the Spurs' offense looks pretty this year, but i think come playoff time, when the defenses get better, the Spurs are going to regret to a degree not integrating RJ better offensively. he's a spot up shooter essentially when he has more ability that that.
100% agree.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
They're good or better in every major statistical category except defending the three. But even in that, they've steadily progressed as the season has gone on.
That's just stupid. Parker's the only one that's better in March.
You have yet to make a single valid point. I don't give a shit about what other teams do, and never bought the "bored" excuse from Lakerfans. I never said the Spurs need to play "balls to the wall". What they need to do is take care of their business when they're on the floor by focusing on defense and rebounding.
Everyone keeps talking about how the Spurs want to rest their best players once they've locked up the number one seed. Well Duncan and Manu are playing the most minutes against teams like Houston, Sacramento, Memphis, New Jersey and Philly because they can't beat them or can't put them away. They're 10-4 over their last 14 and, while pretty good in the first and fourth quarters, have been letting some pretty bad teams back into games. If they're going to be doing that the rest of the year then there won't be any time to rest.
Look at the schedule.
There are seven loseable games coming up in the next nine, more than enough for this gigantic cushion you guys keep pointing at to disintegrate. At what point is it acceptable to you for us to to suggest that they focus while on the floor and put good wins together so they can be able to wrap up home-court, get some rest, and actually start to get ready for the playoffs?
Seriously, folks The Spurs either need to be playing well when they're on the floor or they need to be resting. Playing halfassed basketball and then having to bust your ass and play 35 minutes to beat a bad team accomplishes almost nothing.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mingus
RJ's ability to get to the line has not been utilized nearly enough in his time as a Spur. granted, the Spurs' offense looks pretty this year, but i think come playoff time, when the defenses get better, the Spurs are going to regret to a degree not integrating RJ better offensively. he's a spot up shooter essentially when he has more ability that that.
what i'm concerned about with this team though is defense. the offense is fine as it is with some of its minor flaws. Spurs aren't going to win a championship if they can't play defense at a high level. they don't neccessarily have to play elite defense, but they have to be able to win games in the 90s and i'm not sure this team can do that on a consistent enoug basis.
since it has been made known that Tiago won't be playing a role for us this year, i'm hoping that the shortened rotation in the playoffs will be conducive to high level defense. more Dice/TD frontcourt and way less Bonner and Blair.
RJ was great at getting to the line earlier in the season, so we know he can do it. In some other threads, it's been discussed that perhaps he's being asked not to beat himself up. I'm a little dubious about the idea of the Spurs as a team just suddenly turning it on, but I don't think I'll be surprised to see RJ do exactly that some time in the next week or so.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Look at Neals and Blairs numbers compared to his and I think you'll see where the production has gone.
I honestly think RJ does fine. He spreads the floor but really he's probably just in the right spot as far as order of production goes.
This is exactly correct. Neal is now getting his shots and I am okay with that.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
Everyone keeps talking about how the Spurs want to rest their best players once they've locked up the number one seed. Well Duncan and Manu are playing the most minutes against teams like Houston, Sacramento, Memphis, New Jersey and Philly because they can't beat them or can't put them away. They're 10-4 over their last 14 and, while pretty good in the first and fourth quarters, have been letting some pretty bad teams back into games. If they're going to be doing that the rest of the year then there won't be any time to rest.
Look at the schedule.
They are 10-4 with losses against 2 elite teams and 2 playoffs teams... No reason to panic.
If that is our slump then that team is really good.
And I don't get you point about resting our best players.
- Duncan averaged 27 minutes in february and 26 in March
- Ginobili 30 and 28
- Parker 30 and 30.
How could they play less? What did you expect?
Actually it is amazing we don't lose games against mediocre team with our big 3 playing so few minutes.
We may not blow out bad teams has we should... but are 29-1 against losing teams, have the 2nd point differential (Miami +6.86 Spurs +6.79). That with Parker playing the most minutes... 32 mpg (72nd in the league)... Are you kidding me?
Now, winning the 5th will not be easy. There are legit concerns about our defense or how we will match against the biggest frontcourts.
But I don't see how we could have had a better playing time management for Duncan, Ginobili and even Parker.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
We should involve him more on the ofense.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
well he did state around February that he was bored and just could not wait till the playoffs start.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Look at Neals and Blairs numbers compared to his and I think you'll see where the production has gone.
I honestly think RJ does fine. He spreads the floor but really he's probably just in the right spot as far as order of production goes.
Fine? We're not paying him $12 million this year to go for 7 and 2 a game. Gimme a break.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Aggie Hoopsfan
Fine? We're not paying him $12 million this year to go for 7 and 2 a game. Gimme a break.
What we are paying him is irrelevant right now. For the most part, he's performed when he's needed to. If Pop is running more plays for Neal or Blair, fine. As long as it translates to more wins. I also agree with the poster earlier and that we may see more RJ in the playoffs when needed.
The 12 million can be bitched about after the season.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShoogarBear
Not including last night's game:
Code:
Month MPG FGP FGA/36 PPG RPG APG
October 27.5 0.647 11.1 17.0 3.0 2.5
November 32.6 0.486 10.7 14.7 3.6 1.3
December 32.0 0.455 10.9 12.0 5.5 1.5
January 29.7 0.461 9.3 9.6 4.0 1.3
February 31.1 0.500 7.5 9.4 2.8 1.4
March 26.2 0.565 6.3 7.6 2.6 0.6
.
some things to really look at is that Oct or March are only using a few games and those numbers cant be relied on for stats purposes.
Numbers that jumped out at me were FGA in nov 10.7 to 7.5 in Feb and currently 6.3 in March thus far. Were talking 30-40% decline in numbers of attempts. ID really like to see the stats of all the players per month for an accurate accessment here.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
On a slightly unrelated note, has Jefferson become scared to dunk the ball (or perhaps was told by Pop not to?) It seems like he missed a couple dunks in one game not too long ago, and after that it seems like he always is going to the "dunk lay-in" whenever he's on a breakaway or going up.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I agree with those that realize that Jefferson fits better this season and that Gary neal as taken away his touches. I'm fine with that, but pick it up on Defense RJ.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mathbzh
They are 10-4 with losses against 2 elite teams and 2 playoffs teams... No reason to panic.
If that is our slump then that team is really good.
And I don't get you point about resting our best players.
- Duncan averaged 27 minutes in february and 26 in March
- Ginobili 30 and 28
- Parker 30 and 30.
How could they play less? What did you expect?
Actually it is amazing we don't lose games against mediocre team with our big 3 playing so few minutes.
We may not blow out bad teams has we should... but are 29-1 against losing teams, have the 2nd point differential (Miami +6.86 Spurs +6.79). That with Parker playing the most minutes... 32 mpg (72nd in the league)... Are you kidding me?
Now, winning the 5th will not be easy. There are legit concerns about our defense or how we will match against the biggest frontcourts.
But I don't see how we could have had a better playing time management for Duncan, Ginobili and even Parker.
Yeah, you're right. The Spurs should just rest on their bloated numbers from this season and not worry about, I don't know, being ready to play good teams in the playoffs, or working on defense, or working on rebounding (or even playing 48 minutes). People should just ignore the games I pointed out where the Spurs are having to play more minutes to beat mediocre teams. We wouldn't want someone accusing them of panicking by suggesting they start playing better. I'm sure Pop's decision to make Dice a starter has nothing to do with getting ready for the postseason.
54 wins, motherfuckers!
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
Yeah, you're right. The Spurs should just rest on their bloated numbers from this season and not worry about, I don't know, being ready to play good teams in the playoffs, or working on defense, or working on rebounding (or even playing 48 minutes). People should just ignore the games I pointed out where the Spurs are having to play more minutes to beat mediocre teams. We wouldn't want someone accusing them of panicking by suggesting they start playing better. I'm sure Pop's decision to make Dice a starter has nothing to do with getting ready for the postseason.
54 wins, motherfuckers!
My point is not that we should not worry. It is just to state the obvious. When your best players play barely 30 mpg you can't really complain about them playing too much.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mingus
RJ's ability to get to the line has not been utilized nearly enough in his time as a Spur. granted, the Spurs' offense looks pretty this year, but i think come playoff time, when the defenses get better, the Spurs are going to regret to a degree not integrating RJ better offensively. he's a spot up shooter essentially when he has more ability that that.
Agree 100%.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mathbzh
My point is not that we should not worry. It is just to state the obvious. When your best players play barely 30 mpg you can't really complain about them playing too much.
Trouble is, I didn't complain about them playing too much, except in the specific games I cited, where they're playing more minutes because the team is playing lazy ball and the starters have to come in for the fourth quarter to put away a mediocre opponent. You retorted with their minutes over the entire season, just as you pointed the scoring margin over the entire season.
Your point seems to be that we shouldn't even discuss it.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Discuss what you want. No one is going or is even trying to stop you. Just don't get ass hurt when people look at the overall picture and shake their heads at your discussion.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ is saving his aggressiveness for the playoffs.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
RJ is still as aggressive as we need him. As long as he's pulling the trigger on the 3 and as long as its going in thats pretty much all you need out of him on the offensive end. I'd rather have those touches on drives come from Neal or Hill any day.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Discuss what you want. No one is going or is even trying to stop you. Just don't get ass hurt when people look only at the overall stats for the season and completely misrepresent what you're saying.
Okey dokey.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
here's a thought: he's getting 5 less shots PG than his best month. that's a huge cut in production.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I thought RJ played well again today on Bron, Bron scored most his points when RJ was playing PF or on the bench.
He didn't look like a deer in the headlights like a few of our younger players did putting up no hope shots and being scared to to put up shots once in range.
I have seen in the last 2-3 games RJ trying to drive more, yes passing off too much at the point when it needs to be taken to the rack strong. But it will come he has finished a couple off a side step, hes over thinking the offensive foul which has caught him out a bit this season. Its good to see him trying to find some confidence in the drive again and before the playoffs.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Jefferson's drop in production: Who is to blame?
Full article: http://www.projectspurs.com/2011-art...nd-season.html
Quote:
Look at the amount of shots he was taking since the beginning of the season:
• November: 146
• December: 145
• January: 115
• February: 75
• March: 35
Also, look at his shots per-game since the beginning of the season:
• November: 9.7
• December: 9.6
• January: 7.6
• February: 6.5
• March: 5.0
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Wow that sums up things doesn't it.
get him back up above least 120 and we are a finals team.
