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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohmwrecker
RJ will be fine. His dips in offensive production are attributed for purposeful refocusing on trying to get other players involved in the scheme (Blair, Hill, Neal . . .) by the coaching staff. RJ is naturally going to be the one who loses touches.
I think he has been solid defensively. Especially in games where he has a marquee matchup (Durant, James, Artest . . .). He has had some games where his focus has been off, but all the Spurs are guilty of that.
I don't think RJ or Pop are going to let the fruits of their labor go to waste.
Good points. The Spurs did come into the season with a little extra early focus because they didn't want to be struggling to make the playoffs like they did last year. That goal has been pretty spectacularly met, so maybe that's why they've coasted for a little longer than I'm comfortable with.
I'd still love for Pop to treat an upcoming game, or upcoming stretch of games, as their playoff tuneups. This was supposed to be the time they spent working on things getting ready for the playoffs. The only thing they're working on at the moment is pulling out close games at the end.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
So you're going to worry until the playoffs start, regardless of how they're playing? Doesn't make much sense.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
WTF happened to those RJ alley oops we used to see in every game?
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ohmwrecker
RJ will be fine. His dips in offensive production are attributed for purposeful refocusing on trying to get other players involved in the scheme (Blair, Hill, Neal . . .) by the coaching staff. RJ is naturally going to be the one who loses touches.
I think he has been solid defensively. Especially in games where he has a marquee matchup (Durant, James, Artest . . .). He has had some games where his focus has been off, but all the Spurs are guilty of that.
I don't think RJ or Pop are going to let the fruits of their labor go to waste.
So what about his massive decline in rebounding and his overall obvious slippage in defense?
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
First off, RJ is obviously going through something personal, and no one knows exactly what it is. If he has been dealing with it the past 1-3 months and it has been really hard on him, that could be it.
Just wanna say I posted a thread about this way back in December, and I got flamed for it, but as usual I was spot on. Here is that amazing thread:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167228
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Spurs have so much talented offensive players that there isn't enough shoots for all these weapons. However, I agree that RJ must be more aggressive and take more shots.
When you look at the bigger picture, I've a hard time being worried about that while Spurs have a way biggest problem with their defense. I don't even see how Spurs could be close of beating Lakers with a defense that average.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Duncan, Ginobli, Parkers numbers have also dropped since start of the season. Seems like a fail thread to me, since the answer is so obvious. Spurs are too deep, and there is only so much ball to go around.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Others have made the point (only so many shots to go around). Here are some numbers.
Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, RJ, Blair, Hill, and Neal have accounted for 83.8% of the team's FGAs this season. In November, those seven combined for 68.2 FGAs per game. In February they combined for 69.0 FGAs per game. Not much change. What changed was the distribution.
November
Ginobili 14.0
Parker 14.0
Duncan 11.9
RJ 9.7
Hill 6.5
Blair 6.1
Neal 5.9
February
Ginobili 13.5
Parker 12.6
Duncan 10.9
RJ 6.5
Hill 8.3
Blair 9.8
Neal 7.4
More specifically, look at the shots taken by the "minor" perimeter players:
November
RJ 9.73
Hill 6.53
Neal 5.93
Total 22.19
February
RJ 6.5
Hill 8.25
Neal 7.4
Totasl 22.15
If RJ's shot attempts are to go back up, they'll have to come at the expense of Hill and Neal. That's where they've gone.
Sorry about the (lack of) formatting.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Note also that the FGAs of all 4 vets decreased, while the FGAs of all 3 young players increased.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cessation
Duncan, Ginobli, Parkers numbers have also dropped since start of the season. Seems like a fail thread to me, since the answer is so obvious. Spurs are too deep, and there is only so much ball to go around.
Just for reference... Manu:
Code:
Oct 2 2 34.5 0.424 0.350 1.000 0.5 2.0 2.5 5.0 2.0 0.5 22.5
Nov 15 15 33.0 0.490 0.414 0.899 0.6 3.3 3.9 4.9 2.0 0.4 21.8
Dec 15 15 30.3 0.401 0.337 0.808 0.7 2.9 3.5 4.6 1.4 0.5 15.7
Jan 15 15 30.9 0.415 0.347 0.889 0.9 3.3 4.2 5.1 1.9 0.3 18.4
Feb 12 11 30.1 0.377 0.246 0.855 0.2 3.8 4.0 5.4 1.2 0.3 15.8
Mar 7 7 28.0 0.458 0.324 0.808 0.6 2.4 3.0 5.4 1.4 0.1 15.4
Tony:
Code:
Oct 2 2 32.5 0.500 0.000 1.000 0.5 3.0 3.5 6.5 1.5 0.0 16.5
Nov 15 15 34.6 0.514 0.444 0.776 0.5 3.1 3.5 7.4 1.8 0.0 17.7
Dec 15 15 32.2 0.516 0.250 0.683 0.3 2.6 2.9 6.7 1.0 0.1 18.1
Jan 15 15 31.6 0.547 0.385 0.877 0.5 2.6 3.1 6.6 1.3 0.0 16.9
Feb 12 12 30.8 0.497 0.375 0.761 0.2 2.7 2.9 5.5 0.8 0.1 15.7
Mar 5 5 30.4 0.547 0.667 0.778 0.2 1.2 1.4 6.0 1.6 0.0 20.0
Tim:
Code:
Oct 2 2 30.0 0.545 0.000 0.667 1.5 8.0 9.5 2.0 2.0 2.0 15.0
Nov 15 15 29.5 0.475 0.000 0.684 2.9 6.8 9.7 3.4 0.6 1.8 13.9
Dec 15 15 28.3 0.497 0.000 0.789 2.6 6.5 9.1 3.1 0.7 2.0 12.5
Jan 15 15 30.0 0.470 0.000 0.755 2.1 7.3 9.4 2.8 0.7 2.1 14.1
Feb 12 12 27.5 0.511 0.000 0.615 1.9 6.2 8.1 2.0 0.5 2.3 13.2
Mar 7 7 26.3 0.477 0.000 0.739 1.7 7.1 8.9 2.0 0.7 1.1 11.3
Manu and RJ have had the most dramatic dropoffs from the beginning of the year. I don't know how the Spurs survived with Manu's shooting in Dec/Jan/Feb. Hopefully they all can get revved back up as we head into the homestretch.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kori Ellis
Manu and RJ have had the most dramatic dropoffs from the beginning of the year. I don't know how the Spurs survived with Manu's shooting in Dec/Jan/Feb. Hopefully they all can get revved back up as we head into the homestretch.
I have definitely been more concerned with Manu than RJ this season because he is more essential to the team's success, but like I said earlier, the offensive production for all the players has fluctuated throughout the season. Everyone needs to gel at the right time for the best results. Like a machine.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Spurs fans are going to worry until the playoffs start and will worry right up until the point where they win the title. Its to be expected.
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
They've already shown how good they can be. With a comfortable lead, you're not going to see them playing close to their peak against mediocre and worse teams with still over a month until the playoffs begin. When the Lakers were doing this (and losing to a bunch of those teams; unlike the Spurs), it was "they're bored". When the Spurs do it, there's panic and constant questioning. Predictable.
The thing people have to realize is, when you have a team where all nine players in the rotation are statistically productive, not everyone can play at or near their statistical peak. If everyone on the team were maxing out on what they could realistically average, this team would be averaging at least 120 ppg, which is obviously not realistic.
I'd like to see Jefferson get to the line more and rebound slightly more, but I'd rather he shoot 12% better from three than he average 1 more point, free throw attempt and rebound per game. Don't expect him to statistically improve in the playoffs, because the big three plus McDyess will play more and they won't be pacing themselves at that point. So if, as expected, they up their production, then that leaves less of everything available for the other five in the rotation.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I don't care if Neal is getting Jefferson shots. But i trust much more in RJ than Hill shooting. Hill is great when he attacks the rim, but when it comes to a jump-shot or a 3p shot, RJ is better and should be taking more shots.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
It's not enough to have RJ do "fine" imo. I have used the term with him and I have used it often. He "floats". He is content just being out there and not messing up. Not messing up does not mean you are helpful.
He doen't get paid to float. He gets paid to be an impact player. If you look at LA and the talent they have, talent wins. RJ's talent has to show through and he has to be a major part. He can't just "not hurt" the Spurs.
With those scoring numbers and lack luster defense, his rebounding should have sky rocketed. He is one of THE BIGGEST problems Spurs have with regards to rebounding.
Spurs can still win a ton of regular season games with him just hanging around and not doing much, but if a title is the goal, then it's no where near enough IMO.
Yeah rebounding is a good point. I can recall him grabbing a ton of huge boards earlier in the season, but I don't recall him getting any lately. RJ definitely has to pick it up.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
He has had a few solid rebounds in some big moments, but the Spurs have been getting absolutely getting murdered on the glass. Regardless of touches, he needs to be more dialed in on that.
I am really surprised the Spurs have been able to win so many games with Manu & RJ not playing very well.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
They've already shown how good they can be. With a comfortable lead, you're not going to see them playing close to their peak against mediocre and worse teams with still over a month until the playoffs begin. When the Lakers were doing this (and losing to a bunch of those teams; unlike the Spurs), it was "they're bored". When the Spurs do it, there's panic and constant questioning. Predictable.
The thing people have to realize is, when you have a team where all nine players in the rotation are statistically productive, not everyone can play at or near their statistical peak. If everyone on the team were maxing out on what they could realistically average, this team would be averaging at least 120 ppg, which is obviously not realistic.
I'd like to see Jefferson get to the line more and rebound slightly more, but I'd rather he shoot 12% better from three than he average 1 more point, free throw attempt and rebound per game. Don't expect him to statistically improve in the playoffs, because the big three plus McDyess will play more and they won't be pacing themselves at that point. So if, as expected, they up their production, then that leaves less of everything available for the other five in the rotation.
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
What folks are worried about is how many players aren't playing as well as they were in December, starting with RJ. Drawing fouls and rebounding are effort and hustle type stats, and a couple of these guys are in a genuine slump and need to start trying to fight their way out of it over these last 15 games. There's not a single thing in the world unrealistic about that.
The Lakers were bored six weeks ago, and they've started to ramp it up. If Pop's starting Dice, then it's obviously a signal that he's getting the postseason rotation into place. Obviously the center that we've waited four years for isn't going to be part of that rotation, so the Spurs are going to need to be playing at a high level for four quarters to make a run.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Some rebounding numbers . . .
Team (last season to this season): 52.0% (3rd) to 50.5% (11th)
Blair: 20.6% (7th) to 19.0% (13th)
Duncan: 18.9% (T-10th) to 18.4% (T-16th)
McDyess: 16.5% (T-36th) to 16.4%
Bonner: 10.8% to 9.0%
Jefferson: 8.3% to 7.3%
Ginobili: 7.7% to 7%
Bogans/Neal: 6.6% to 7.2%
Hill: 5.3% to 5.9%
Parker: 4.6% to 5.4%
I expect the rebounding to improve, in large part, due to the change in the starting lineup. Blair's percentage inevitably dropped somewhat significantly primarily playing next to Duncan. The trickle down effect was, so did Jefferson's percentage. Theoretically, they should both pick it up now.
I don't expect them to reach last season's lofty standards, but they don't have to. The Celtics damn near won a title despite the fact that they finished last season at 49.1% (25th). The Lakers did win the title and they finished last season at 51.2% (8th). The Spurs are eminently capable of rebounding at that rate.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Yes, but both LA and BOS were much better defensively, so they could make up for their rebounding in that department.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TD 21
Exactly. I've never seen a less confident fan base of an elite team. Let alone one that's won four championships in the past dozen years, with the same core and coach leading them now.
To be frank, those championships were won playing elite defense. What we're trying to do this season is an entirely different story.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
But it's so much more fun and personally satisfying to castigate strawmen.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
You guys that want to blow sunshine up everyone's ass need to log out until the playoffs start if discussion of the Spurs bothers you that much. I don't think there's anyone that has suggested that the Spurs should have everyone playing at or near their statistical peak, and it's just idiotic to suggest that as though anyone's asking for something like that.
What folks are worried about is how many players aren't playing as well as they were in December, starting with RJ. Drawing fouls and rebounding are effort and hustle type stats, and a couple of these guys are in a genuine slump and need to start trying to fight their way out of it over these last 15 games. There's not a single thing in the world unrealistic about that.
The Lakers were bored six weeks ago, and they've started to ramp it up. If Pop's starting Dice, then it's obviously a signal that he's getting the postseason rotation into place. Obviously the center that we've waited four years for isn't going to be part of that rotation, so the Spurs are going to need to be playing at a high level for four quarters to make a run.
Thank you for the insight. I guess the Lakers only have to play at a high level for a quarter to make a run, because they're indestructible and the Spurs have a million problems.
Discussion doesn't bother me and I'm not the type to "blow sunshine up everyone's ass". Unlike many of you clowns, I'm a realist. It's not that it was suggested, it's that many don't factor it in period (about all of them simultaneously playing to their statistical peak).
What do you expect? They've shown how good they can be, they have nothing left to prove until the playoffs, they have five fewer losses than their closest competition, within' twenty games to go and you expect them to be playing balls to the wall against mediocre and worse competition with over a month still to go before the playoffs start? They don't get the "they're bored" excuse?
This notion that this team has umpteen major problems is ludicrous. They're good or better in every major statistical category except defending the three. But even in that, they've steadily progressed as the season has gone on. I don't see Lakers, Mavs, Celtics fans, etc. panicking constantly. If anything, they're all overconfident and either downplay or are in denial about their flaws.
DPG, the Lakers were not much better defensively. They finished last season with an efficiency rating of 101.1. The Spurs are currently at 101.4 and before their recent slide, they were in the 100s for much of the season, despite Duncan playing roughly 28 mpg and McDyess playing roughly 18 mpg.
They're a good defensive team with the capacity to be slightly better than they currently are. They don't have to be a lock down defensive team, because of how explosive and complete they are offensively. Balance wins championships and this is as balanced a team as you'll find in the league.
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I'm not worried about how much RJ shoots or scores, I just want to see the effort that we saw out of him at the start of the season on the boards, and on D. ATM, apart from the odd big play, he reminds me somewhat of the lackadaisical RJ we saw last year, with the major difference being that at least he knows where to be in the system now. I'm hoping he's just been coasting and will come on strong from here on until we lift the trophy. ;)
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itzsoweezee
The other Spurs are not lacking fault in all of this. They simply are not getting Jefferson involved in the offense.
I want to see the RJ oop more often
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Re: Richard Jefferson month-by-month
I agree, spurs are just coastin against bottom feeders after busting their ass to get that five game cushion.
