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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
i know everyone had high hopes for splitter going into the season, but obviously he has not been ready this year. in the court time we have seen from him the bright spots have been few and far between. instead we usually get to watch him get pushed around, miss assignments, and take horrible hook shots
and thats just what we are able to see. obviously pop and his staff are able to watch him in practice and must see more that makes them believe the players they are using instead are more capable of helping the team win now.
the fact is this team is now in a rebuild mode. we all know the window is closing and the best chance we have to win is to put the guys on the floor who are going to put us in that position. I'm sure we'd all like to see splitter doing what we thought he would, but the fact is that he hasn't so you go with what you have.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
^ i meant pop wiped his hands of responsibility midseason . stated "theres not enough minutes" well no shit you drunk you have a ymca geek as our defensive center????!!!
im sorry i respect this organization a great deal, however pop also needs to have some sort of accountability or else its human nature to want less resistance and more power. he used to feel some sort of respect for fans it seems he lost that too.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
i know everyone had high hopes for splitter going into the season, but obviously he has not been ready this year. in the court time we have seen from him the bright spots have been few and far between. instead we usually get to watch him get pushed around, miss assignments, and take horrible hook shots
and thats just what we are able to see. obviously pop and his staff are able to watch him in practice and must see more that makes them believe the players they are using instead are more capable of helping the team win now.
the fact is this team is now in a rebuild mode. we all know the window is closing and the best chance we have to win is to put the guys on the floor who are going to put us in that position. I'm sure we'd all like to see splitter doing what we thought he would, but the fact is that he hasn't so you go with what you have.
I think Bynum missed training camp and the first couple of months of the season for the lakers...but guess what...when he was ready---Phil just threw him in there and now he is paying dividends...
Pop could have thrown Splitter in there and let him learn on the fly...but Pop's system is too fuckin' precious to try an acclimate someone on the fly...
This hopefully does NOT bite the spurs in the ass...
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rmt
Here's hoping that Splitter's confidence (when he hopefully sees court time next year) isn't messed up by Pop's lack of confidence in him.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Rather than playing those two together, the bigger crime is entering this season with probably the shortest frontline of any of the top contenders in the West. Sure Splitter has been injured, but he hasn't been injured all year. Pop's hesitance on integrating him is flat-out irresponsible coaching, in my eyes. That should've been priority #1. Still, if he were worried about the challenge of integrating him this season, he should've brought in another big of size.
It's unforgiveable because Pop should be doing everything possible to give the team its best chance to win a title, in Duncan's waning years. Instead of Tim's load getting lighter, it seems that he's still relied upon to do the bulk of the heavy lifting on both ends of the court. It's absolute madness. It's simply not fair to him and I'm surprised that Pop is so cavalier about it.
You're not going to matchup or even overtake the Fakers with a Bonner/Blair combination as a second unit. For that matter, you're probably not going to be successful with Dice as a 28-32 minute per game running mate in the playoffs. Dice is very good, but he's not that guy anymore. Therefore, it's apparent that Pop entered the season with an inferior frontline.
It seems that everyone knows the Spurs size deficiency on the frontline - except Pop.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
it's aaaaaaight, we know that once the Lakers meet the Spurs in the playoffs Kobe will be back to ballhoggin' and we won't need to worry about Bynum and Gasol getting more than 5 low post touches per game.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Have business school number crunchers taken over basketball? Just imagining some high-falutin' stats that would "prove" that Bonner & Blair are our best option.
Bonner & Blair = simulator crew move.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Honestly I don't understand why the people are complaining Spurs fron-court too much.
Let's think Dallas, other western conference contender. They've Haywood, Nowitzki and Chandler in front-court. Duncan-McDyess-Blair trio is not worse then that.
Let's think Boston, Eastern conference contender. They've 38 years old O'neal, another O'neal which will not play again this year, Glen Davis who is undersized like Blair and Kevin Garnett. This team's front-court is not better then Spurs.
Let's think Miami. They've Bosh and the garbages like Juwan Howard, Dampier, Ilgauskas, Joel Anthony etc. Our front-court is not worse then them.
There are only 2 other contenders who has better front-court then us, Chicago and Lakers. It's very doubtful that we will face against Bulls in play-offs and Lakers is ver vulnerable with injury prone Bynum.
We don't have too bad front-court as the people repeat without stopping.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chazley
News flash: you're all dumbasses. The Spurs organization is one of the leaders when it comes to using advanced metrics to find out the best combinations on the court. Obviously, this Blair/Bonner combo is effective or Pop wouldn't be using it.
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Dice is a moron. Bonner and Blair have spent a ton of time together. The problem with the Spurs is the lack of time Splitter and Duncan have had on the floor together.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
Dice is a moron. Bonner and Blair have spent a ton of time together. The problem with the Spurs is the lack of time Splitter and Duncan have had on the floor together.
^ This
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jay_shs
it's aaaaaaight, we know that once the Lakers meet the Spurs in the playoffs Kobe will be back to ballhoggin' and we won't need to worry about Bynum and Gasol getting more than 5 low post touches per game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tuncaboylu
Honestly I don't understand why the people are complaining Spurs fron-court too much.
Let's think Dallas, other western conference contender. They've Haywood, Nowitzki and Chandler in front-court. Duncan-McDyess-Blair trio is not worse then that.
Let's think Boston, Eastern conference contender. They've 38 years old O'neal, another O'neal which will not play again this year, Glen Davis who is undersized like Blair and Kevin Garnett. This team's front-court is not better then Spurs.
Let's think Miami. They've Bosh and the garbages like Juwan Howard, Dampier, Ilgauskas, Joel Anthony etc. Our front-court is not worse then them.
There are only 2 other contenders who has better front-court then us, Chicago and Lakers. It's very doubtful that we will face against Bulls in play-offs and Lakers is ver vulnerable with injury prone Bynum.
We don't have too bad front-court as the people repeat without stopping.
Naaw, Kobe'll only ball-hog in the Finals if he feels that there's a chance Gasol might get Finals MVP instead of him. Kobe's getting smart in his old age. If the most of us can see the weakness in the frontline, you can be sure that Kobe and Phil Jackson see it too. He's fine as long as Bynum's healthy - Bynum is the difference maker.
Gasol's kinda soft and would be okay for TD to handle alone but Bynum is who sets the Lakers apart from every other team in the league. We only have to remember what TD/DRob were like - that's what the combination of Gasol/Bynum/Odom is now for the Spurs. Plus they have Ratliff in case of foul trouble - he filled in nicely last year on the Bobcats.
IMO, Dirk/Chandler/Haywood is currently a better frontline than TD/Dice/Blair (because of age/height). Dirk is a legit MVP candidate with scoring ability than an opponent must account for. They are 32/28/31 years old and can play heavy minutes. Our soon to be 35 year old and almost 37 year old cannot. They are also 7-0/7-1/7-0. Spurs are 6-11/6-9/6-7. Saying all that I prefer Spurs' chances against DAL than against LA.
The road to the Finals leads through LA (unless DAL beats them for us). LA already established the blue print to beat the Spurs in the last game - chase the 3pt shooters off the arc, don't help when Parker/Manu penetrate but force them to shoot over Bynum/Gasol/Odom.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
silverblk mystix
I think Bynum missed training camp and the first couple of months of the season for the lakers...but guess what...when he was ready---Phil just threw him in there and now he is paying dividends...
Pop could have thrown Splitter in there and let him learn on the fly...but Pop's system is too fuckin' precious to try an acclimate someone on the fly...
This hopefully does NOT bite the spurs in the ass...
are you trying to compare Bynum who has been in the league for 6 seasons (i think) and proven he can play in the league to a guy who had never stepped on an NBA court before this season?
Apples to oranges.
I really wanted Splitter to step up and show he can play, but I have not been impressed with Splitter in the action he has seen this year. Being that I do not evaluate NBA talent for a living, I'm sure if I can tell that he isn't ready for the bright lights, that our staff has even more insight into the reason he is not on the court getting abused night in and night out.
I don't think anyone wants to see Bonner and Blair playing at the same time, but the fact is that both of them are the best options of the Spurs have right now in the front court.
Everyone keeps saying the Spurs should have gone and picked up another big then... please enlighten us on who they should have picked up that can play minutes and is better than the current bigs in the rotation?
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chazley
Blair is a bad rebounder? Both are below-average defenders? WTF are you smoking. Just because Bonner is white doesn't mean he isn't a good defender. Is he a bad help defender? Yes. Is he good at holding his own man 1 on 1? He's at the very least average. Blair is at least an average defender when you take in all aspects of defense, including steals, where he is above average. I would say Blair's main weakness is his help defense, not his one on one defense.
Keep in mind, this is our second unit. To be able to trot out the best 3-pt shooter in the league and one of the best rebounding bigs when given minutes is not bad at all. I'm not claiming either Blair or Bonner are more than average on defense, but if you trot them out there with a lineup of Hill/Manu/RJ (who isn't being given enough credit for his defense), the need for either Blair or Bonner to be good help defenders is irrelevant.
Also, good job just throwing out useless facts with no evidence to back up your argument.
-Blair is an average rebounder when you match him up against legit 7footers. You really thing hes going to rebound at the same clip when hes matched up against the Gasols/Randolph/Bynum?
-:lol @ Bonner being an average defender. He might give above-average effort on the defensive end but that doesnt prevent the other team from consistently attacking him and his man scoring at will. There's a reason why guys like Darrell Arthur light him up.
-Blair immediately becomes a poor defender when his man receives the entry pass. His best chance is to steal the entry pass but teams will adjust and he wont be able to gamble as much especially if Matt fuckin bonner his the help defender.
-Hill/Manu/RJ are not shutdown defenders. The closest one is Hill and he has regressed this season. RJ has improved but nowhere near a shutdown defender. Their weaknesses are amplified when they got two of the worst help defenders in the league playing behind them. Our defense suffers immensely when TD or Dice is not in their so yeah i wouldnt say the Blair/Bonner D is "irrelevant"
:[email protected] "useless facts". Why do I need stats to back up what you already consider them "useless facts"?
it's okay if you dont watch any of the games or dont know much about basketball, but don't pretend otherwise.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
chazley
Random thought: McDyess might be the most overrated Spur in recent history.
:lmao Any stats to back this up?
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
are you trying to compare Bynum who has been in the league for 6 seasons (i think) and proven he can play in the league to a guy who had never stepped on an NBA court before this season?
The only difference so far is that one guy got playing time when he was young, the other doesn't. Everything else is unknown.
Criticisms of Bynum over his career:
He's injury prone.
He fouls too much.
He missed training camp.
If he had gotten the Pop treatment, people would still be saying all these things as reasons Bynum had yet to crack the rotation for the Lakers, despite their inability to get out of the west the last four years. There would be "Free Bynum" threads in the NBA forum while Jackson's defenders argue that he shouldn't be in there ahead of Gasol and Odom because he's been hurt too much to contribute anyway, citing Jackson's nine championship rings as evidence that nobody should question him.
So far Splitter is Schrodinger's cat. Let's open the fucking box already.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
The only difference so far is that one guy got playing time when he was young, the other doesn't. Everything else is unknown.
Criticisms of Bynum over his career:
He's injury prone.
He fouls too much.
He missed training camp.
If he had gotten the Pop treatment, people would still be saying all these things as reasons Bynum had yet to crack the rotation for the Lakers, despite their inability to get out of the west the last four years. There would be "Free Bynum" threads in the NBA forum while Jackson's defenders argue that he shouldn't be in there ahead of Gasol and Odom because he's been hurt too much to contribute anyway, citing Jackson's nine championship rings as evidence that nobody should question him.
So far Splitter is Schrodinger's cat. Let's open the fucking box already.
Imagine if Tiago went to sign with LAL.
I feel sick from that already.
Anyway, if I see Kobe in June hoisting up his 6th title partly because of a short and easy WCF against the smallish and Splitter-less Spurs with Duncan ultimately breaking down from his overload of carrying the frontline because of Pop's arrogance and stubborness, well I would be watching the LOB trophy to LAL ceremony heartbroken and constantly think of the words "Damn you, Pop!" :depressed:bang:depressed
If the Spurs do not get past the 2nd round, Pop should simply be fired.
Poor Timmy.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Meh, that's probably overstated a bit, but the bottom line remains: Any and every attempt at justification for not playing Splitter disappeared the second Pop put Steve Novak ahead of him in the rotation. The Spurs aspire to be like Phoenix and Golden State teams that never won anything instead of the Spurs teams that won titles.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
SenorSpur nailed it. Comparison to sitting Bynum is apt. Although Splitter doesn't have the NBA experience he has played professionally and held his own well against NBA players.
Dice is just parroting what Pop must be saying in team meetings/practice.
Hoping Kobe shoots LA out of it has worked great the past 3 years... oh wait.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
The only difference so far is that one guy got playing time when he was young, the other doesn't. Everything else is unknown.
Criticisms of Bynum over his career:
He's injury prone.
He fouls too much.
He missed training camp.
If he had gotten the Pop treatment, people would still be saying all these things as reasons Bynum had yet to crack the rotation for the Lakers, despite their inability to get out of the west the last four years. There would be "Free Bynum" threads in the NBA forum while Jackson's defenders argue that he shouldn't be in there ahead of Gasol and Odom because he's been hurt too much to contribute anyway, citing Jackson's nine championship rings as evidence that nobody should question him.
So far Splitter is Schrodinger's cat. Let's open the fucking box already.
wrong
You are taking a player who is in his 6th season and trying to compare him to a player in his first season in the NBA
If you look at Bynum in his first season in the league he averaged 7.3 minutes per game. His second season that jumped up to 21 and has steadily increased for the most part from there.
I expect the same from Tiago next year. Fact is when he is in the game he gets straight bullied right now. I don't think he was/is ready for the NBA game right now. Should he have gotten a little more burn in the regular season? Probably. Should he have started and played over 20 minutes a game? At this juncture I'd say no.
Fact is no matter what Pop does people will complain. If Splitter was getting 30 minutes a game and getting pushed around all over the court people would say he's Matt Bonner and Pop is just in love with him. In the current situation people say Pop never gave him a chance.
I'd say he had opportunities, albeit limited, but has proven he is not ready yet.
The size situation isn't ideal right now when looking at the Lakers, but seriously, who has the size to match up with them in the league?
I'll take Duncan, Dice, Blair, Bonner vs the Mavs/Thunder/Celts/Heat/Bulls/Magic.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
wrong
You are taking a player who is in his 6th season and trying to compare him to a player in his first season in the NBA
If you look at Bynum in his first season in the league he averaged 7.3 minutes per game. His second season that jumped up to 21 and has steadily increased for the most part from there.
I expect the same from Tiago next year. Fact is when he is in the game he gets straight bullied right now. I don't think he was/is ready for the NBA game right now. Should he have gotten a little more burn in the regular season? Probably. Should he have started and played over 20 minutes a game? At this juncture I'd say no.
Fact is no matter what Pop does people will complain. If Splitter was getting 30 minutes a game and getting pushed around all over the court people would say he's Matt Bonner and Pop is just in love with him. In the current situation people say Pop never gave him a chance.
I'd say he had opportunities, albeit limited, but has proven he is not ready yet.
The size situation isn't ideal right now when looking at the Lakers, but seriously, who has the size to match up with them in the league?
I'll take Duncan, Dice, Blair, Bonner vs the Mavs/Thunder/Celts/Heat/Bulls/Magic.
First of all, the suggestion that Splitter gets pushed around is fucking retarded. Splitter played against Bynum in the second game and was very physical with him, drawing at least one and maybe two fouls on him.
Second, the one with the incorrect comparison is you, not me. Bynum came out of high school and was the youngest person ever to play in an NBA game. Splitter is 26 and has been a professional basketball player for 12 years.
The reason people say Pop never gave him a chance is simple: Pop never gave him a chance. For proof, see Steve Novak.
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
The only difference so far is that one guy got playing time when he was young, the other doesn't. Everything else is unknown.
Criticisms of Bynum over his career:
He's injury prone.
He fouls too much.
He missed training camp.
If he had gotten the Pop treatment, people would still be saying all these things as reasons Bynum had yet to crack the rotation for the Lakers, despite their inability to get out of the west the last four years. There would be "Free Bynum" threads in the NBA forum while Jackson's defenders argue that he shouldn't be in there ahead of Gasol and Odom because he's been hurt too much to contribute anyway, citing Jackson's nine championship rings as evidence that nobody should question him.
So far Splitter is Schrodinger's cat. Let's open the fucking box already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
First of all, the suggestion that Splitter gets pushed around is fucking retarded. Splitter played against Bynum in the second game and was very physical with him, drawing at least one and maybe two fouls on him.
Second, the one with the incorrect comparison is you, not me. Bynum came out of high school and was the youngest person ever to play in an NBA game. Splitter is 26 and has been a professional basketball player for 12 years.
The reason people say Pop never gave him a chance is simple: Pop never gave him a chance. For proof, see Steve Novak.
so drawing a foul or two on a player is the criteria for weather a player is physical or not?
laughable
You can't compare a 6 year NBA vet to a player making his first appearance in the NBA. I don't care if Splitter played 10 years in Spain, it's a different game than the NBA, and Splitter has not proven he can play with the best basketball players in the world.
I wish there was a stat for the number of rebounds that were in a players hand that they didn't pull down, or the number of missed assignments a player makes. Splitter would lead the league in both.
Dude has a great potential and I believe will be a solid player in the years to come, but he is NOT ready for the NBA right now and Pop was smart enough to see that.
let me know when you are running a NBA team and evaluating talent for a living.. i may take a little more credence in your posts then...
just sayin
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
so drawing a foul or two on a player is the criteria for weather a player is physical or not?
laughable
That would be laughable if that were what I said. In fact, my post was a response to the completely stupid charge that he gets pushed around. He doesn't. He draws fouls on both ends of the floor and plays excellent defense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
You can't compare a 6 year NBA vet to a player making his first appearance in the NBA.
Not sure where you think someone did. People made a comparison to Splitter as a rookie vs Bynum early in his career when he had the exact same question marks. Bynum was thrown into the pool to see if he could swim. Splitter sits on the bench watching.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
I don't care if Splitter played 10 years in Spain, it's a different game than the NBA, and Splitter has not proven he can play with the best basketball players in the world.
It's clear that you don't care about facts, but the fact remains that it is the EXACT SAME GAME. Splitter can't 'prove' shit from the bench.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
I wish there was a stat for the number of rebounds that were in a players hand that they didn't pull down, or the number of missed assignments a player makes. Splitter would lead the league in both.
No, you don't wish there were a stat for that, because you'd be proven wrong. It's much easier for you to complain about things that only exist in your mind. If you'd like to look for "if" stats, look at Splitter's per 36 minute stats here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
Dude has a great potential and I believe will be a solid player in the years to come, but he is NOT ready for the NBA right now and Pop was smart enough to see that.
No, you don't believe he has great potential if you can look at the job he's done in the small amount of time he's gotten and determine that not only is he not the best defensive big on the roster, but that he deserves to be behind Steve Novak in the rotation. What little credibility you might have had disintegrates when you fail to take that fact into account.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ernest787
let me know when you are running a NBA team and evaluating talent for a living.. i may take a little more credence in your posts then...
just sayin
Just sayin "FOUR RINGS FAGGOT" is pretty much proof you're getting the shit kicked out of you in the discussion at hand. :lol
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
actually i'm not
i've posted the facts. apples to apples
Bymun averaged 7 minutes a game in his first season. Splitter has averaged 11 minutes in his first season. I'm sure next season Splitter's minutes will increase to around the same amount as Bynum's in his second season. Remember I wasn't the one who brought Bynum into this conversation; instead, I pointed out that you can not compare Bynum being injured at the beginning of this season and then being placed back into the rotation with Splitter. If you want to more accurately compare the two then look at Bynum's first season in the league and you'll see he was handled much the same as Splitter.
Ok... yes, the game played in the Spanish league is the same game played in the NBA. Is it at the same level... NO. Night in and night out Splitter is expected to guard the most physical, talented basektball players in the world. He definitely has the skill set to do it, which is evident by what he has done in the Spanish league. Thus far, in his limited minutes he has not proven he can do it in the NBA. I'm not an NBA Scout. You are not an NBA Scout. I can only go by my knowledge of the game, which immediately, pales in comparison to individuals who are literally paid MILLIONS to do this. What I also know is that the people who are paid MILLIONS have spent countless hours watching the tapes of his limited minutes and watched him practice and concluded he is not ready.
In my opinion, he is constantly out of position on the offensive end, is not physical enough, and more times then not is beat to lose balls or clearly whiffs on balls he should have rebounded.
If you read my previous post in their entirety you'd see that I clearly said I think he deserves some more burn, but that on the flip side I don't think he is ready for 20-30 minutes a game at this point in his career. I understand this is the internet and reading comprehension is tough for a lot of people, but it's really not difficult to understand my point.
Splitter has a lot of potential. Splitter should probably get a little more time then he does on a more consistent basis. Splitter is however not ready for the 20-30 minutes a night everyone wants him to play. And finally, none of us are NBA talent evaluators.
Regardless of what the Spurs do in the playoffs this year it's hard to argue with the best record in the league.
AGAIN...
JUST SAYIN
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Re: Upsetting Quote From McDyess
I do think it's unrealistic to bump up the minutes of Dice and Tim by about 10+ suddenly. There's a fitness aspect that needs to be progressive. I thought that actually backfired with Manu last season. He was used to playing 28 mpg, then all of a sudden he was bumped to 35+ mpg and I really think he looked extremely gassed at the end of games during the playoffs.
It's not that he can't play 35 mpg. It's that his body is used to the pacing of 28 mpg for a full season and it takes some time to regain the extra fitness that the extra minutes require. This season he's averaging closer to 31 mpg, so hopefully the transition won't be as taxing.
On the same vein, I'd like to see Tim and Dice minutes progressively increase in these last dozen games or so, so they can get that extra wind they're going to need for the playoffs.
