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Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/cal...ling-stone.htm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Yon
29 March 2011
Seldom do I waste time with rebutting articles, and especially not from publications like Rolling Stone. Today, numerous people sent links to the latest Rolling Stone tripe. The story is titled “THE KILL TEAM, THE FULL STORY.” It should be titled: “BULLSHIT, from Rolling Stone.”
The story—not really an “article”—covers Soldiers from 5/2 Stryker Brigade Combat Team (SBCT) in Afghanistan. A handful of Soldiers were accused of murder. It does in fact appear that a tiny group of rogues committed premeditated murder. I was embedded with the 5/2 SBCT and was afforded incredible access to the brigade by the Commander, Colonel Harry Tunnell, and the brigade Command Sergeant Major, Robb Prosser. I know Robb from Iraq. Colonel Tunnell had been shot in Iraq.
The brigade gave me open access. I could go anywhere, anytime, so long as I could find a ride, which never was a problem beyond normal combat problems. If they had something to hide, it was limited and I didn’t find it. I was not with the Soldiers accused of murder and had no knowledge of this. It is important to note that the murder allegations were not discovered by media vigilance, but by, for instance, at least one Soldier in that tiny unit who was appalled by the behavior. A brigade is a big place with thousands of Soldiers, and in Afghanistan they were spread thinly across several provinces because we decided to wage war with too few troops. Those Soldiers accused of being involved in (or who should have been knowledgeable of) the murders could fit into a minivan. You would need ten 747s for the rest of the Brigade who did their duty. I was with many other Soldiers from 5/2 SBCT. My overall impression was very positive. After scratching my memory for negative impressions from 5/2 Soldiers, I can’t think of any, actually, other than the tiny Kill Team who, to my knowledge, I never set eyes upon.
The online edition of the Rolling Stone story contains a section with a video called “Motorcycle Kill,” which includes our Soldiers gunning down Taliban who were speeding on a motorcycle toward our guys. These Soldiers were also with 5/2 SBCT, far away from the “Kill Team” later accused of the murders. Rolling Stone commits a literary “crime” by deceptively entwining this normal combat video with the Kill Team story. The Taliban on the motorcycle were killed during an intense operation in the Arghandab near Kandahar City. People who have been to the Arghandab realize the extreme danger there. The Soviets got beaten horribly in the Arghandab, despite throwing everything including the Soviet kitchen sink into the battle that lasted over a month. Others fared little better. To my knowledge, 5/2 and supporting units were the first ever to take Arghandab, and these two dead Taliban were part of that process.
The killing of the armed Taliban on the motorcycle was legal and within the rules of engagement. Law and ROE are related but separate matters. In any case, the killing was well within both the law and ROE. The Taliban on the back of the motorcycle raised his rifle to fire at our Soldiers but the rifle did not fire. I talked at length with several of the Soldiers who were there and they gave me the video. There was nothing to hide. I didn’t even know about the story until they told me. It can be good for Soldiers to shoot and share videos because it provides instant replay and lessons learned. When they gave me the video and further explained what happened, I found the combat so normal that I didn’t even bother publishing it, though I should have because that little shooting of the two Taliban was the least of the accomplishments of these Soldiers, and it rid the Arghandab of two Taliban.
Some people commented that our Soldiers used excessive force by firing too many bullets. Hogwash. And besides, they were trying to kill each other. Anyone who has seen much combat with our weak M-4 rifles realizes that one shot is generally not enough, and the Taliban were speeding at them on a motorbike, which very often are prepared as suicide bombs. If that motorcycle had been a bomb, as they often are, and got inside the group of Soldiers and exploded, they could all have been killed. Just yesterday, in Paktika, three suicide attackers came in, guns blazing, and detonated a huge truck bomb. Depending on which reports you read, about twenty workers were killed and about another fifty wounded.
In the video, our guys would have been justified in firing twice that many bullets, but at some point you are wasting ammo and that is a combat sin. The Soldiers involved in that shooting told me that the Taliban on the back may have pulled the AK trigger, but the loaded AK did not fire because the Taliban didn’t have a round in the chamber. Attention to detail. At least one also had an ammunition rack strapped across his chest.
This could go on for pages, but Rolling Stone is not worth it, and thrashing them might only build their readership. I’ve found in the past that boycotts work. I led a boycott against one magazine and it went bankrupt. It’s doubtful that Rolling Stone will go bankrupt for its sins, but you can cost them money not by boycotting their magazine, but by boycotting their advertisers. That hurts. Just pick an advertiser whose products you already buy, boycott it, and tell the advertiser why you are not buying their product.
Now I’ve got to get back to work.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Why is the army so busy apologizing for the photos and prosecuting the kill team if it's all bs?
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Winehole23
Why is the army so busy apologizing for the photos and prosecuting the kill team if it's all bs?
If you actually read Yon's article, you would know that he was specifically calling BS on the "Motorcycle Kill" that is on Rolling Stone's website:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...-kill-20110327
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
So there was a kill team.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChumpDumper
So there was a kill team.
Looks like there were a few bad apples that got the whistle blown on them by a fellow solder and who are now being prosecuted.
Is this BS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolling Stone
The clip presented here is excerpted from 'Motorcycle Kill,' a video collected and shared by members of the “kill team” of U.S. soldiers who murdered civilians in Afghanistan and mutilated the corpses. The jumpy, 30-minute video – shot by soldiers believed to be with another battalion in the 5th Stryker Brigade – shows American troops gunning down two Afghans on a motorcycle who may have been armed.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
I'm sorry, but Colonel Harry Tunnel :rollin
Okay
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
If you actually read Yon's article, you would know that he was specifically calling BS on the "Motorcycle Kill" that is on Rolling Stone's website.
A sensationalistic element of RS's coverage is criticized. Fair enough.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
Looks like there were a few bad apples that got the whistle blown on them by a fellow solder and who are now being prosecuted.
Does the article say otherwise?
Not if a full accounting of the video was unavailable, especially when you read the part you chose to leave out.
Why did you leave it out, Darrin?
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
probably radical killing in the name of islamophobia.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Oh man the irony of Darrin posting this article is so fucking delicious. Doesn't Darrin do exactly what the article is condemning when it comes to Muslims?
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
I find it hilarious that Darrin thought no one would call him on his BS from his last post.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
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Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Oh man the irony of Darrin posting this article is so fucking delicious. Doesn't Darrin do exactly what the article is condemning when it comes to Muslims?
This "kill team" does so in the name of Christianity?
I blame RADICAL Islamists for acts of terrorism -- NOT ALL MUSLIMS.
Do you understand the last sentence?
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
This "kill team" does so in the name of Christianity?
I blame RADICAL Islamists for acts of terrorism -- NOT ALL MUSLIMS.
Do you understand the last sentence?
:lmao
Thats the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. You might be able to tell that to someone who doesn't know your posting history on this board.
Don't worry, Darrin. Maybe Yoni will come post an article complaining about plagiarism to one up your idiocy.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
:lmao
Thats the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. You might be able to tell that to someone who doesn't know your posting history on this board.
Don't worry, Darrin. Maybe Yoni will come post an article complaining about plagiarism to one up your idiocy.
Well, coming from people that think all critics of Obama are motivated by racism, I'm not surprised by your post?
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
You guys hate threads defending US Soldiers and threads critical of radical Islamists.
Tavis Smiley Syndrome
interesting
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
This "kill team" does so in the name of Christianity?
I blame RADICAL Islamists for acts of terrorism -- NOT ALL MUSLIMS.
Do you understand the last sentence?
Yes, I do. However, that last sentence becomes meaningless when you conflate Extremists with "practitioners" which is a chickenshit euphemism for "most"
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
But, what I may consider "extreme", many practitioners of Sharia may consider normal
and then spread them to the 4 winds
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Why is the left so loathe to admit that the worldwide Muslim community has major issues? And has for a LONG time
so that the extremists become the worldwide Muslim community.
Asinine chains of thought like that should be mocked....often.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
Well, coming from people that think all critics of Obama are motivated by racism, I'm not surprised by your post?
Except I've never made that claim. I can provide link after link after link where you pile all Muslims together.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
See - Teysha already owned your ass on the subject. Who the hell are you trying to fool, Darrin? Yourself? No one else is buying your bullshit.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
You guys hate threads defending US Soldiers and threads critical of radical Islamists.
Tavis Smiley Syndrome
interesting
More bullshit. Once again, who are you trying to fool? I've got absolutely no problem with the OP pointing out the sensationalist bullshit in Rolling Stone and in fact I applaud it.
I simply find it incredibly ironic YOU posted the article and didn't even think about how you violate the principles laid forth in the article on a regular basis.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarrinS
You guys hate threads defending US Soldiers and threads critical of radical Islamists.
Tavis Smiley Syndrome
interesting
Two straw men in one sentence.
DarrinS syndrome
interesting
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Considering that DarrinS considers most Muslims to be "radical" by default (after all, he's watching them carefully on planes, remember?), I don't think his claims of fairness hold much water.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Except I've never made that claim. I can provide link after link after link where you pile all Muslims together.
Ok, go ahead.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
i hope manny doesn't provide that. we all already know.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
Except I've never made that claim. I can provide link after link after link where you pile all Muslims together.
Jesus help us if all of those Muslims are piled together on the same plane.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Winehole23
As a soldier, it is your duty to disobey unlawful orders. Period. He's a fucking murderer. The miserable fucks that did this piss me off to no end. They make the army look bad, my fucking army. I hope they all get the chair, or injection, or whatever way they kill those who receive the death penalty while in service.
DarrinS. Dipshit armchair retards such as yourself only feed the fires that fuel the tiny percentage of muslims who terrorize us. While in Iraq and Kuwait, i was able to see for myself that a vast majority of muslims (at least that I met) are good people. I still hold this belief despite the fact that I was shot at, shelled, insulted, and spat on. The latter two I understand, as I would probably do the same to any foreign forces who walked around in my country, even if their intentions were noble. Stop generalizing everything. It's old, it's tired, and most importantly, it's ignorant
As for Mr Yon. I completely agree with him that Rolling Stone made some big mistakes with the article, but the meat of it still seems to be mostly true. I'm actually glad they published the photos, because people should know. However, making the army, in general, out to be like this, "tiny group of rogue soldiers" is deplorable. The military as a whole is always an easy target, especially for lefty rags like RS. But RS is generalizing the Army in much the same way that dipshitS is to muslims. I would applaud RS if they had simply stated the facts and printed the pictures, but they decided to sensationalize it, and that is wrong, especially when it's obviously in pursuit of readers and advertising $$$. He's right to call them on it.
And before anyone bags on Yon, realize that he is the best war correspondent that exists today. Sure, that's my opinion, but nobody has done more embeds, or been right more often than has Yon. What people should also realize about MY, is that he's been extremely critical of allied forces in both Afgh/Iraq. Last year he was even kicked out of a British embed for criticizing their lack of choppers and was integral in getting a Canadian general fired. The guy has huge stones and tells it like it is.
lol Harry Tunnell
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Blake
Jesus help us if all of those Muslims are piled together on the same plane.
Sheiks on a plane?
Sorry.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
admiralsnackbar
Sheiks on a plane?
Sorry.
That was so bad, I'm almost speechless.:lol
:toast
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
symple19
DarrinS. Dipshit armchair retards such as yourself only feed the fires that fuel the tiny percentage of muslims who terrorize us. While in Iraq and Kuwait, i was able to see for myself that a vast majority of muslims (at least that I met) are good people. I still hold this belief despite the fact that I was shot at, shelled, insulted, and spat on. The latter two I understand, as I would probably do the same to any foreign forces who walked around in my country, even if their intentions were noble. Stop generalizing everything. It's old, it's tired, and most importantly, it's ignorant
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
I'll be generous and say that only 0.5% of Muslims may be of the radical variety. There are 1 billion Muslims in the world. You do the math.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=132
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
This kind of stuff happens in all wars.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
Originally Posted by
symple19
As a soldier, it is your duty to disobey unlawful orders. Period. He's a fucking murderer. The miserable fucks that did this piss me off to no end. They make the army look bad, my fucking army. I hope they all get the chair, or injection, or whatever way they kill those who receive the death penalty while in service.
This. I hate when people assume the military will follow any unlawful order, and it's idiots like this that help feed into that assumption.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
Quote:
He followed the order, Winfield said. "Morlock told me to shoot so I started shooting. That was that."
Idiot. Why the fuck do we have LOAC training if not for these very situations? I know the Army (moreso than the AF at least) is all about respecting rank, but you don't respect such an obviously unlawful order.
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Re: Calling BS on Rolling Stone's "Kill Team" article
