If all that it takes to get rich is hard work, Darrin, then are all people who are not rich just not working hard enough?
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If all that it takes to get rich is hard work, Darrin, then are all people who are not rich just not working hard enough?
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
The opportunities are out there, and most of them do involve hard work. Not everyone can win a lottery.
I don't have any "super" rich people in my family, but I do have some family members that are well off and others that are poor. Without exception, those that are well off are more industrious, have made more sacrifices, and have made better choices in their lives than my family members who are poor.
You didn't answer my question, Darrin. Its a very simple one.
Is this child and his family poor because they simply don't work hard enough?
http://doesprayerwork.info/wp-conten...hild-sudan.jpg
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Surely, getting rich isn't about just being handed a lucky lottery ticket (unless, of course, you won the lottery), but that doesn't mean that each poor person has character flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
No, you can't get rich JUST by working hard. If that were the case, garbage collectors would be rich. Like I said, the opportunities are there.
As for the emaciated child, most likely he's poor because he had the misfortune of being born in a failed state.
Do you think some people get rich with the absence of hard work? Also, do you think its easier to stay rich than it is to get rich, Darrin?
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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
I didn't mean to imply that ALL poor people have character flaws, just the ones in my family.
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
If you win the lottery or get an inheritance.
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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
If you are rich and hoard your money, then I suppose it is easier to stay rich.
Just to be clear on my end, Darrin, I firmly believe that a hard worker is far more likely to succeed (as he/she should be.) than a lazy ass.
Exactly - especially the 2nd portion since many more people receive money through inheritance than through lottery winnings. Which brings me to my next point...Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
So, perhaps with these two ideas in mind, you can see why the greatest indicator of how much money a person will make in their life is not the level of effort they put into things, but rather the amount of money their parents made.Quote:
If you are rich and hoard your money, then I suppose it is easier to stay rich.
Correct. The rest is pretty much pure luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I disagree. But, I'll admit, it wouldn't hurt to start of with wealthy parents.
I'd be interested in seeing that quote if you can dig it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Part of me thinks that this whole discussion is outdated. I don't think that we'll have a worker's revolt anytime soon because of factors already raised - Americans are fat, lazy, stupid, apathetic, etc... But to think that our social condition is ripe for some proletarian uprising also misses the point. It's not a leap to say that society has changed drastically from the early 20th century - a time when a stronger class consciousness was present in America. And I think that those changes -- the biggest one being the permanance of large multinational institutions -- call for different types of "revolt." Ultimately, I think it's more productive to focus on different types of social change, i.e., how to combat notions of gender, racial, sexual inequality, etc... because that's more apropos to "late capitalism."
inb4 working within masters house = rearranging chairs on the titanic
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Originally Posted by RandomGuy
Can you become a famous cardiovascular surgeon by luck?
Why do you disagree?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
The conditions that Hater laid out preclude utilizing your recommendations. Also, the scenario of losing ones job or coming down with a major illness landing you in the poor house most likely precluded utilizing your recommendations beforehand as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stringer_Bell
Not everyone has $500 bucks a month to stow away. And even if they did, how long would they need to save before they were ok with losing a job for 6+ months or getting hit with a 20k medical bill (or a 120k bill if they're unemployed when they got sick)?
On a smaller but no less relevant scale, I've seen far too many patients over the years who are forced to decide whether or not to pay rent or get their prescriptions filled. The reality is that 50k per year is ok so long as you are young, healthy and don't have a family. It's a different animal once your health begins to fail or your kids require daycare.
Someone other than the middle class needs to begin sharing the burden IMO. Close to 50% of folks/entities don't pay a dime in taxes. Insane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
My intuition is that that's not the case, but there may be data to prove me wrong. I was raised in a poor, single-parent household, so I can only relate to my own experience. I'm glad I never had that victim philosphy.
Against a government that does not represent its own people.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
A government that is bought and paid for by the super-wealthy.
A government whose every law is crafted to the benefit of corporate personhood.
A government that politically refuses to balance their financials because it isnt politically expedient to do so.
Against a government that is ever-expanding for no real reason.
Against a government that slowly but surely is eroding the meaning of privacy and personal freedom with laws, bylaws and regulatory bodies that declare fiat over private corporations customer lists under a guise of protection.
A revolution to redistribute power from the Few to the Many until the next time that balance is disrupted like it is now.
I am not concerned that a majority of my countrymen are ignorant partisans incapable of individual thought...nothing can change that.
I am concerned that the government is incapable of self-restraint, that it chooses not to govern responsibly or comprehensively, but instead feeds the pigs that makeup our population with promises of more for less.
I am concerned that the government is so damn scared of the wealthy. Fuck the wealthy along with everyone else.
I am concerned that even after the near collapse of our economy (and who says it isnt happening right now?), the government still refuses to pass legislation that would limit the ability of a handful of private institutions to become so ingrained into the balance sheets of the single greatest economic force the world has ever seen that their default could cause the loss of trillions to normal investors and moreover, complete chaos.
But beyond all of that, revolution is the tool used to remind those who think themselves immune that the host is indeed aware of the parasite's existence and dependance. Tolerance of its presence is the only thing keeping it alive.
Unfortunately, that tolerance is still at an almost all-time high for the great many.
I'm not convinced that Americans need to be smarter to ferment a revolution of sorts. I simply maintain more need to feel the sting of pain. And they don't even need to feel the same level of pain others in counties far worse off than us feel. They merely need to be knocked down a few pegs on the comfort scale. Enough of them to matter anyway.
There is a reason the single greatest factor in our elections is the economy.
It's the middle class who makes up a good chunk of that 50% who aren't paying a dime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
I do think that taxes on the rich need to go up, but so do everyone else's.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotes_geek
Revolution?
Who is armed? I don't think people with a liberal agenda want to start one. They wouldn't be the ones to end it...
I say that with no malice, that's just logistics.
A revolution need not mean a violent revolution.
In this country? Civil rights in the 60's was a MOVEMENT.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Revolution is something more extreme. Revolution means seizure of assets, overthrowing the constitution, removal of some people's rights.
It would be bloody.