-
If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Poor and desolate...no government help for Hurricanes... and you know how you rely of the gubberment for help when natural disaster strikes...business would likely move out of your "Country" since they'd more than likely be limited in their business dealings...and finally the Mexicans would reclaim Texas as their own...and in force...you wouldn't be able to withstand on your own the onslaught..the Mexican drugs gang would run you into the ground...and when that happens you'll solely rely on the Texas Guard as a means of protection...No more help from the Feds that you so despise....Al-Queda would then be free to run wild in your cowboy country...no more looking to the Pentagon for assistance...Fund and build your own fucking border wall...
Man I would love to see Texas secede so these stupid fucking Tea Partiers and their supporters can finally see what shitty ideas float in the heads on a second by second basis...:lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Texas would be almost instantly and completely over run and co-opted by the drug cartels. The only thing that's stopping them now is TX being part of the USA, and backed by our military.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
TX would probably take a huge hit, at least the bottom 90%, if the US moved all of its military, defense contracting, Houston Space Center out, and stopped agricultural subsidies, Medicare/Medicaid funding, and all the inflow from blue-states to TX.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Hopefully Arizona would wait till I'm done with school.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
az can take care of itself
we would fix the border problem by having landmines and shooting illegals crossing
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Drug Cartels? You think that scares Texas? You do realize Chuck Norris would be The President of the Republic of Texas do you not??? (srs)
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
The Texas Economy is roughly equivalent to the size of Canada. Yeah, we would take a hit from US military bases leaving, but we would make up for it...If the US decided to play economic games we control the natural gas that feeds the northeast for heat in the winter and most of the refined gasoline/diesel for the central and east coast. They will REALLY push for renewable energy when we shove $10 gas up their ass.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
The Texas Economy is roughly equivalent to the size of Canada. Yeah, we would take a hit from US military bases leaving, but we would make up for it...If the US decided to play economic games we control the natural gas that feeds the northeast for heat in the winter and most of the refined gasoline/diesel for the central and east coast. They will REALLY push for renewable energy when we shove $10 gas up their ass.
then it would cost tx a boat load of money to cross borders......not to mention the tariffs for gulf commerce.
tx would be punished for going alone.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
then it would cost tx a boat load of money to cross borders......not to mention the tariffs for gulf commerce.
tx would be punished for going alone.
I agree. But the hurt would go both ways. In that hypothetical scenario it would be in the US and Texas best interest not to start a trade war and just be another member of NAFTA. I personally think that hypothetically Texas could co-exist with the US in a friendly relationship and do quite well financially.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
from this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
They will REALLY push for renewable energy when we shove $10 gas up their ass.
to this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
I agree. But the hurt would go both ways. In that hypothetical scenario it would be in the US and Texas best interest not to start a trade war and just be another member of NAFTA. I personally think that hypothetically Texas could co-exist with the US in a friendly relationship and do quite well financially.
caved in pretty quick, cowboy.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Trading within NAFTA and the global oil markets are two completely different things.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
from this:
to this:
caved in pretty quick, cowboy.
No cave in. Two different scenarios based on US attitude. Obviously Texas would want free trade, but could have a carrot/stick approach to negotiating it.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChuckD
Texas would be almost instantly and completely over run and co-opted by the drug cartels. The only thing that's stopping them now is TX being part of the USA, and backed by our military.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
TX would probably take a huge hit, at least the bottom 90%, if the US moved all of its military, defense contracting, Houston Space Center out, and stopped agricultural subsidies, Medicare/Medicaid funding, and all the inflow from blue-states to TX.
Pretty much this. Plus, how many people would leave out of fear of the uncertainty of living in a new independent city-state?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
Trading within NAFTA and the global oil markets are two completely different things.
Really? We didn't know that. :rolleyes
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Really? We didn't know that. :rolleyes
Clambake obviously doesn't know the difference.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
Clambake obviously doesn't know the difference.
clammy knows that tx could choose between playing the global market, or not.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
the Dallas Cowboys would finally be their nation's best football team
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
The Texas Economy is roughly equivalent to the size of Canada. Yeah, we would take a hit from US military bases leaving, but we would make up for it...If the US decided to play economic games we control the natural gas that feeds the northeast for heat in the winter and most of the refined gasoline/diesel for the central and east coast. They will REALLY push for renewable energy when we shove $10 gas up their ass.
Would gas not be available from any other source?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ChumpDumper
Would gas not be available from any other source?
No Chump. Texas is the only possible place in the world they can get natural gas and gasoline from.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
TX would probably take a huge hit, at least the bottom 90%, if the US moved all of its military, defense contracting, Houston Space Center out, and stopped agricultural subsidies, Medicare/Medicaid funding, and all the inflow from blue-states to TX.
That's fucking hilarious.:lmao
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Put some numbers behind these bullet points of yours. How much money are you talking about here? I doubt you'll bother...you usually don't if you cant find it on truthout.borg.:rolleyes
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf
Remove ALL the military bases, NASA, all the civil service supporting them, ALL the federal govt offices + civil service, ALL the military/federal contractors from TX, remove all the drug/border/federal staff, all the Federal support for Medicare/Medicaid inflows, etc, etc, and tell me if you think TX won't bat an eye becoming an independent nation.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
It's fucking true, bitch
Very little of what you say is "truth" in the pure sense.
you're a conspiracy theory nut spammer, tbh.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf
Remove ALL the military bases, NASA, all the civil service supporting them, ALL the federal govt offices + civil service, ALL the military/federal contractors from TX, remove all the drug/border/federal staff, all the Federal support for Medicare/Medicaid inflows, etc, etc, and tell me if you think TX won't bat an eye becoming an independent nation.
I'm pretty sure the US would continue to lease those facilities from Texas, if push came to shove. I know you can't fathom a position that isn't zero sum. Sucks to be you I guess. BTW...Texas is a "blue" state in the context that it sends more to the Federal Gov than it receives. So, in balance, we might actually come out ahead...not that I'd trust the Tx Legislature to handle the money well.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
I'm surprised that such obvious trolling from a Lakers fan during playoff time got so many responses.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
desflood
I'm surprised that such obvious trolling from a Lakers fan during playoff time got so many responses.
I know, right? It's fun when the kids come out and post on the weekend.:lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
"I'm pretty sure the US would continue to lease those facilities from Texas"
that's cheating, figures. You want TX to keep all the inflow of federal dollars from other states, but still be an independent country.
If TX were a purely foreign country, everything I listed would be gone. San Antonio's economy would collapse without the military.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
If TX were a purely foreign country, everything I listed would be gone. San Antonio's economy would collapse without the military.
Would Texas being a foreign country not have it's OWN military?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
I'm pretty sure the US would continue to lease those facilities from Texas, if push came to shove.
Depends on how amicable the split was. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
I know you can't fathom a position that isn't zero sum. Sucks to be you I guess. BTW...Texas is a "blue" state in the context that it sends more to the Federal Gov than it receives. So, in balance, we might actually come out ahead...not that I'd trust the Tx Legislature to handle the money well.
If the split was amicable, you might not have to worry about instantly going into billions of dollars of debt to create a standing army.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
"I'm pretty sure the US would continue to lease those facilities from Texas"
that's cheating, figures. You want TX to keep all the inflow of federal dollars from other states, but still be an independent country.
If TX were a purely foreign country, everything I listed would be gone. San Antonio's economy would collapse without the military.
Cheating? WTF are you on, dude?
I love how you couch this as TX keeping inflow from other states. You know that's how a country is supposed to work, right? And it doesn't follow that everything you listed would be gone. The US does lease bases across the world. Hell, the US pays agricultural subsidies to foreign countries. Brazillian cotton, anyone?
Again, I don't expect you to have the cognitive ability to grasp the contradictory flow of cash and equities. But, if you're gonna claim that it's gonna crash an economy, put up the numbers or GFY.
BTW, San Antonio does not equal the entire state. Again, put up some numbers or gfy.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Would Texas being a foreign country not have it's OWN military?
With all the guns in Texas, they'd have a decent militia.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Would Texas being a foreign country not have it's OWN military?
Dunno....Nato sure does the job for alot of European countries. I'm sure a defense pact would be negotiated.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Depends on how amicable the split was. :)
If the split was amicable, you might not have to worry about instantly going into billions of dollars of debt to create a standing army.
It's just a giant thought exercise....it'll never happen. And if it did, I don't think for a minute it wouldn't be difficult. But fatal, nope.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
Cheating? WTF are you on, dude?
I love how you couch this as TX keeping inflow from other states. You know that's how a country is supposed to work, right? And it doesn't follow that everything you listed would be gone. The US does lease bases across the world. Hell, the US pays agricultural subsidies to foreign countries. Brazillian cotton, anyone?
While this is true, I don't think that the US military would find a strong need to keep open bases in TX if it split. The bases in other parts of the world are usually strategically placed (ie. good for air ops/refuels, or for quick response to a country that doesn't like us).
Not sure what the strategic benefit would be to keep bases in Texas long-term.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
San Antonio's economy would collapse without the military.
Loss of military and federal offices would definitely massively hurt San Antonio. (military alone is 75k jobs and $5 billion)
So would the extreme loss of conventions, etc, that would happen if SA was no longer part of the US.
Other TX cities would fare better, but SA would be decimated if Texas were to seceede.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
It's just a giant thought exercise....it'll never happen. And if it did, I don't think for a minute it wouldn't be difficult. But fatal, nope.
Given the premises of the thought exercise, if Texas seceding made the quality of life of it's citizens worse than Texas as part of the US, I'd call that a failure. :D
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
While this is true, I don't think that the US military would find a strong need to keep open bases in TX if it split. The bases in other parts of the world are usually strategically placed (ie. good for air ops/refuels, or for quick response to a country that doesn't like us).
Not sure what the strategic benefit would be to keep bases in Texas long-term.
Yeah, I don't really know....I guess the B1B program could be moved to another airbase instead of Dyess AFB, for example. I think proximity to Mexico/Latin America might be worth a base or two tho.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Given the premises of the thought exercise, if Texas seceding made the quality of life of it's citizens worse than Texas as part of the US, I'd call that a failure. :D
It's probably not going to be a static position. I would expect improvement after the initial shellacking of relocations.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Realistically, this thought experiment really needs to define whether or not the split is amicable or not. (We all know real-world that it would never happen, but we need to know for the purposes of this convo.)
Because if the split isn't amicable, I don't see how Texas survives as anything but a 2nd/3rd world country.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
Put some numbers behind these bullet points of yours. How much money are you talking about here? I doubt you'll bother...you usually don't if you cant find it on truthout.borg.:rolleyes
Texas a net recipient of welfare dollars, to my recollection of the data.
As to Texas' net contribution to the union, that would be much harder to wrap one's head around.
Pluses:
Houston, Austin, San Antonio, Dallas = Energy, Tech, Health Care, Energy/Agriculture respectively.
These cities offer a lot of vibrant economic activity
Cheap labor
Minuses:
Lots of poor people, including illegal immigrants
That is it in a nutshell.
right-wingers love to point to Texas and say "look at the differences that a business friendly regulatory environment makes", but the real story is, as always, not quite so cut and dried. Oil and natural gas add no small portion to that, and the jobs we create don't tend to pay well.
We have a huge military and security presence because of the border, and most of that is paid for by the rest of the country. Add in the ag and welfare subsidies, and my gut says we are a net beneficiary in monetary terms of the union.
That said, it has been remarked that we would be almost instantly overrun by drug cartels, and I would concur.
Without the backing of a powerful FBI and other federal agencies, I do not think Texas would withstand the corruptive influences. The expenses of creating a new country from scratch with its own currency, state deparment, replacement for FAA, FBI, etc, would be enough to drag the economy down fairly quickly.
Cession is one of those emotionally appealing but ultimately fucktarded ideas for any US state.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
Yeah, I don't really know....I guess the B1B program could be moved to another airbase instead of Dyess AFB, for example. I think proximity to Mexico/Latin America might be worth a base or two tho.
Eh, the AF would still have bases in California, Florida, Missisippi, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arizona, and Nevada. We've got most of the south covered.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Not sure what the strategic benefit would be to keep bases in Texas long-term.
Not really anything long term, but they'd certainly keep a lot of them open in the short term, considering how major some of them are to the US military, particularly here in SA.
It take a while for them to figure out how to rearrange regional headquarters, move training ops, etc, and as long as Texas was willing to let them stay for a while, they'd probably take some time to do so (not overly long, less than a decade, but it'd certainly slow the withdrawal for jobs and funds to a more manageable rate).
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fyatuk
Loss of military and federal offices would definitely massively hurt San Antonio. (military alone is 75k jobs and $5 billion)
So would the extreme loss of conventions, etc, that would happen if SA was no longer part of the US.
Other TX cities would fare better, but SA would be decimated if Texas were to seceede.
I've lived through a military base closure and know first hand that it sucks. I was teaching in Big Spring when they closed Webb AFB. Big Spring got their asses kicked short term. But, having the big ass Cosden refinery there did help mitigate the damage somewhat.
I don't think SA would lose alot, if any, of it's convention business as long as trade negotiations continued freely. That riverwalk's a money maker.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fyatuk
Not really anything long term, but they'd certainly keep a lot of them open in the short term, considering how major some of them are to the US military, particularly here in SA.
It take a while for them to figure out how to rearrange regional headquarters, move training ops, etc, and as long as Texas was willing to let them stay for a while, they'd probably take some time to do so (not overly long, less than a decade, but it'd certainly slow the withdrawal for jobs and funds to a more manageable rate).
Oh yeah, that's why I specified long-term. Totally agree with you that if it's friendly, then they try to keep at least one or two bases open, maybe more. (I doubt they'd keep the saturation that's there now though.)
Of course, it all hinges on how friendly the breakup is. If it's full-on war, ops can ramp up quite quickly.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Realistically, this thought experiment really needs to define whether or not the split is amicable or not. (We all know real-world that it would never happen, but we need to know for the purposes of this convo.)
Because if the split isn't amicable, I don't see how Texas survives as anything but a 2nd/3rd world country.
I would predicate the spit upon amicable terms, which makes it even less likely to happen. A full on secession for any other reason would likely be a disaster.
But since the OP has the IQ of a demented Chihuahua, it's unlikely he's gonna specify the terms.:lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
I would predicate the spit upon amicable terms, which makes it even less likely to happen. A full on secession for any other reason would likely be a disaster.
But since the OP has the IQ of a demented Chihuahua, it's unlikely he's gonna specify the terms.:lol
:lmao
Eh, I'm just having fun anyways. If somehow this was some alternate universe in which the US would allow Texas to secede, then Texas COULD survive, but I doubt it would become, long term, any more successful than the US.
I think the more interesting question would be... if TX seceded, how many other states would join TX? Probably a good chuck of the South/Midwest.
Of course, you could break it down further... if TX seceded, would any cities then want to remain loyal to the US? Austin, I'm looking at you...
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Of course, it all hinges on how friendly the breakup is. If it's full-on war, ops can ramp up quite quickly.
I would have to assume it's amicable BECAUSE of the US military presence on TX soil. I don't think you can seceede unilaterally when there's a quarter million heavily armed, soon to be foreign military personnel on the ground already, as well as several intelligence offices for the soon-to-be foreign government.
At least, not without pressure from the international community to allow it.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fyatuk
I don't think you can seceede unilaterally when there's a quarter million heavily armed, soon to be foreign military personnel on the ground already, as well as several intelligence offices for the soon-to-be foreign government.
:toast That's a pretty good point.:lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
I think the more interesting question would be... if TX seceded, how many other states would join TX? Probably a good chuck of the South/Midwest.
Of course, you could break it down further... if TX seceded, would any cities then want to remain loyal to the US? Austin, I'm looking at you...
I'd definitely expect a possibility of at least 1 or 2 other states joining in.
Of course, if Texas is really pissed at the Federal Government, I'd rather go the other way and increase direct control over the national government by taking up the government on the Annexation agreement (split into up to five states).
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
I could definitely see Louisiana jumping in...
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
how much $$$$ in aid would the new country of texas be sending to israel?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
:lmao like it's impossible for any state or country to live outside the U.S.
Texas would take a hit, redefine itself and be just another self sufficient country like the rest of the 1st world. Would Texas be a super power stronger than the U.S.? Hell no. Would Texas get by as it's own 1st world country, yes.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
:lmao like it's impossible for any state or country to live outside the U.S.
It isn't. But laughing off the costs of CREATING A WHOLE NEW COUNTRY is pretty laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Texas would take a hit, redefine itself and be just another self sufficient country like the rest of the 1st world. Would Texas be a super power stronger than the U.S.? Hell no. Would Texas get by as it's own 1st world country, yes.
How many years do you think that would take?
And do you think that Texas would be able to avoid all the problems that most secessionists think the US has?
Cut out Medicaid/Medicare/etc etc and a lot of people living in TX would move north.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
It isn't. But laughing off the costs of CREATING A WHOLE NEW COUNTRY is pretty laughable.
How many years do you think that would take?
And do you think that Texas would be able to avoid all the problems that most secessionists think the US has?
Cut out Medicaid/Medicare/etc etc and a lot of people living in TX would move north.
Thats not necessarily a bad thing. There are certain elements we would probably be happy to give a bonus check and a bus/airline ticket to if they would move.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Thats not necessarily a bad thing. There are certain elements we would probably be happy to give a bonus check and a bus/airline ticket to if they would move.
You have a good point there. :lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Thats not necessarily a bad thing. There are certain elements we would probably be happy to give a bonus check and a bus/airline ticket to if they would move.
what would the "certain elements" be?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
what would the "certain elements" be?
clambakers. They're a nuisance!
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
what would the "certain elements" be?
Old people, and the infirm/disabled.
It would be a Randian paradise! Temporarily, at least.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
It isn't. But laughing off the costs of CREATING A WHOLE NEW COUNTRY is pretty laughable.
How many years do you think that would take?
And do you think that Texas would be able to avoid all the problems that most secessionists think the US has?
Cut out Medicaid/Medicare/etc etc and a lot of people living in TX would move north.
I'm not laughing at the cost, I'm laughing at the thought of no state can exist without the benevelent U.S. The one thing I'd really like about the idea of seccesion is less government.
Who know's how long it would take to get back but it wouldn't go down to 3rd world then back up. I'm not suddenly going to lose my plumbing in my house, water to it, sewege, trash disposal, and hospitals.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
I'm not laughing at the cost, I'm laughing at the thought of no state can exist without the benevelent U.S.
I don't think anyone said that. I said that Texas wouldn't be very well off if it tried to secede and triggered a war. But if it seceded amicably it could make it. I just don't think the quality of life would be as good as it is now, and it wouldn't catch up for quite a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
The one thing I'd really like about the idea of seccesion is less government.
It's dubious how long that would last though. You'd also have to take time to write a whole new Constitution, come up with new federal laws, etc etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Who know's how long it would take to get back but it wouldn't go down to 3rd world then back up. I'm not suddenly going to lose my plumbing in my house, water to it, sewege, trash disposal, and hospitals.
If you went to war with the US, the first thing they would bomb is your communication towers and power plants. So yes, it would be pretty bad.
Again, if you don't go to war with us, then no, not such a drastic change.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
clambakers. They're a nuisance!
clams would be unaffordable. nothing to bake.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Thats not necessarily a bad thing. There are certain elements we would probably be happy to give a bonus check and a bus/airline ticket to if they would move.
...and why would other states accept tx refugees?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Of course, you could break it down further... if TX seceded, would any cities then want to remain loyal to the US? Austin, I'm looking at you...
That's what purges are for. Gig 'Em. Gig 'Em all to hell!!!
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
U.S. would kiss TX's ass more than Israel. C'mon Kool. Athens has the hype, but you still want Sparta when the Persians come brah.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
I don't think anyone said that. I said that Texas wouldn't be very well off if it tried to secede and triggered a war. But if it seceded amicably it could make it. I just don't think the quality of life would be as good as it is now, and it wouldn't catch up for quite a while.
It's dubious how long that would last though. You'd also have to take time to write a whole new Constitution, come up with new federal laws, etc etc.
If you went to war with the US, the first thing they would bomb is your communication towers and power plants. So yes, it would be pretty bad.
Again, if you don't go to war with us, then no, not such a drastic change.
I'm not taking war into consideration, there would be no war if any state decides to seccede. US soldiers will not shoot US soldiers in this day and age.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
...and why would other states accept tx refugees?
We accepted NO rats.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
We accepted NO rats.
the proposition is that texas would kick out the unwanted.
secede does not equal katrina.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
I'm not taking war into consideration, there would be no war if any state decides to seccede. US soldiers will not shoot US soldiers in this day and age.
I would actually agree with this. If Texas ever did secede (possibly with others), could you see the damn Yankees putting up a fight this time? Would they be willing to wage war and die to force us back in? I seriously doubt it.
The slavery issue wouldn't be a factor this time around, they would explicitly have to be willing to fight and die to force us where we didn't want to go. I don't think they have the stomach for it anymore.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
I'm not taking war into consideration, there would be no war if any state decides to seccede. US soldiers will not shoot US soldiers in this day and age.
Except they wouldn't be US soldiers then.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thompson
I would actually agree with this. If Texas ever did secede (possibly with others), could you see the damn Yankees putting up a fight this time? Would they be willing to wage war and die to force us back in? I seriously doubt it.
Yes, the majority would. And it would be quite asymmetrical, since the US would have the bombs, tanks, planes, etc etc.
Of course, there would be political factors at play, but I'm just taking from an X's and O's standpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thompson
The slavery issue wouldn't be a factor this time around, they would explicitly have to be willing to fight and die to force us where we didn't want to go. I don't think they have the stomach for it anymore.
Some soldiers would, some soldiers wouldn't. Do you think that every soldier who went overseas for the Iraq and Afghanistan War agreed with those wars?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Except they wouldn't be US soldiers then.
Splitting hairs, Ex-US citizens. Better?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
Yes, the majority would. And it would be quite asymmetrical, since the US would have the bombs, tanks, planes, etc etc.
The US hasn't won a war in 40 years with that advantage. :lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
You have to have some degree of popular support, as Vietnam showed. Imagine a Vietnam not on the other side of the world, but a few hundred miles away. One that you're not safe from.
You can bluster all you want. The Yankee populace and politicians don't have the stomach for it.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
you wouldn't have the stomach for your borders being sealed.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
The US hasn't won a war in 40 years with that advantage. :lol
:lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thompson
You have to have some degree of popular support, as Vietnam showed. Imagine a Vietnam not on the other side of the world, but a few hundred miles away. One that you're not safe from.
You can bluster all you want. The Yankee populace and politicians don't have the stomach for it.
it wouldn't be a vietnam. you'd have no flow of supplies.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
it wouldn't be a vietnam. you'd have no flow of supplies.
Sure we would. How many countries want to get back at the U.S.? China, Russia, N.K.? All flooded through our friend Mexico.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Sure we would. How many countries want to get back at the U.S.? China, Russia, N.K.? All flooded through our friend Mexico.
you'd finally get that texas/mexico border you wish for.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
If a war ever happened, how many Texans would immediately shift to the side of the USA? I'm guessing the vast majority - you know the USG would be spreading all kinds of propaganda about how they were simply preserving Texans' lifestyles and shit like that. Besides, with all the armed forces we have here, it would be a massacre if any revolutionary army was actually raised (impossible).
Revolution nor secession is possible in this country any longer. The USG will squash any such serious movement out like a bug long before it's capable of causing any widespread carnage.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
z0sa
If a war ever happened, how many Texans would immediately shift to the side of the USA? I'm guessing the vast majority - you know the USG would be spreading all kinds of propaganda about how they were simply preserving Texans' lifestyles and shit like that. Besides, with all the armed forces we have here, it would be a massacre if any revolutionary army was actually raised (impossible).
Revolution nor secession is possible in this country any longer. The USG will squash any such serious movement out like a bug long before it's capable of causing any widespread carnage.
i think you're missing out on the fun that is this thread. :lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
you'd finally get that texas/mexico border you wish for.
Yup, after the war we would.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
with the US govt's track record for foreign intervention to protect interests, I cant believe how many of you believe it would be possible for there to be an amicable split. the only way texas or any other state would be able to secede is by winning an armed conflict. if it didnt happen before when the south had more economic resources than the north, why would it happen now?
as for the 40 years of asymmetric military failure comment- what do you guys consider was the last war the US won? I ask because a very radical friend of mine insists y'all haven't won a single war without significant help. I don't agree but his argument was interesting (basically, that the US was very good at espionage and coercive bombing but incapable of winning land wars; he pointed to the stalemates in vietnam and korea, the dependence on the russians in WW2 and the french in the civil war; that Iraq didnt count because its only war when two armies are fighting :lol. Im sure there are other conflicts we didnt discuss, that's why i ask).
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
with the US govt's track record for foreign intervention to protect interests, I cant believe how many of you believe it would be possible for there to be an amicable split. the only way texas or any other state would be able to secede is by winning an armed conflict. if it didnt happen before when the south had more economic resources than the north, why would it happen now?
as for the 40 years of asymmetric military failure comment- what do you guys consider was the last war the US won? I ask because a very radical friend of mine insists y'all haven't won a single war without significant help. I don't agree but his argument was interesting (basically, that the US was very good at espionage and coercive bombing but incapable of winning land wars; he pointed to the stalemates in vietnam and korea, the dependence on the russians in WW2 and the french in the civil war; that Iraq didnt count because its only war when two armies are fighting :lol. Im sure there are other conflicts we didnt discuss, that's why i ask).
Spanish-American War? The war vs Mexico?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Yup, after the war we would.
see......now this guy gets it. the fun of this thread.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
The Texas Economy is roughly equivalent to the size of Canada. Yeah, we would take a hit from US military bases leaving, but we would make up for it...If the US decided to play economic games we control the natural gas that feeds the northeast for heat in the winter and most of the refined gasoline/diesel for the central and east coast. They will REALLY push for renewable energy when we shove $10 gas up their ass.
When you say we you mean the new Mexican province, right?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
The US hasn't won a war in 40 years with that advantage. :lol
Yes, but the other side hasn't been winning them either. And Houston has a lot more easily bombable stuff than those other countries.
Plus, soldiers who stayed on the union side, who were from the area, would know the terrain. That's a big advantage.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thompson
You have to have some degree of popular support, as Vietnam showed. Imagine a Vietnam not on the other side of the world, but a few hundred miles away. One that you're not safe from.
You can bluster all you want. The Yankee populace and politicians don't have the stomach for it.
Really? :lol You think that the "Yankees" wouldn't try to fight to preserve the union? I highly doubt that.
And last time I checked, Texas wasn't covered in jungle areas and small towns.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
as for the 40 years of asymmetric military failure comment- what do you guys consider was the last war the US won? I ask because a very radical friend of mine insists y'all haven't won a single war without significant help. I don't agree but his argument was interesting (basically, that the US was very good at espionage and coercive bombing but incapable of winning land wars; he pointed to the stalemates in vietnam and korea, the dependence on the russians in WW2 and the french in the civil war; that Iraq didnt count because its only war when two armies are fighting :lol. Im sure there are other conflicts we didnt discuss, that's why i ask).
It depends on how you define "win", honestly. It's very hard to win a land war on a different continent using the classic definition.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
4>0rings
Sure we would. How many countries want to get back at the U.S.? China, Russia, N.K.? All flooded through our friend Mexico.
Awfully nice friends you have there. :lol
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
z0sa
If a war ever happened, how many Texans would immediately shift to the side of the USA? I'm guessing the vast majority - you know the USG would be spreading all kinds of propaganda about how they were simply preserving Texans' lifestyles and shit like that. Besides, with all the armed forces we have here, it would be a massacre if any revolutionary army was actually raised (impossible).
Revolution nor secession is possible in this country any longer. The USG will squash any such serious movement out like a bug long before it's capable of causing any widespread carnage.
It could and would be done with minimal bloodshed. The entire world would be watching. The modern analogy is the breakup of the Soviet Union. The UN would be all over that shit if the US used it's military might on a state that wanted to secede peacefully.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
"The entire world would be watching"
Since when does UCA about the R.O.W. (except as business opportunity)?
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It could and would be done with minimal bloodshed. The entire world would be watching. The modern analogy is the breakup of the Soviet Union. The UN would be all over that shit if the US used it's military might on a state that wanted to secede peacefully.
Doubtful. It would set an awful precedent, and it could literally dissolve our country if we allowed any state that wanted to secede to do so.
America has shown it is willing to ignore the international community, on numerous different fronts. I think the same would apply here.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It could and would be done with minimal bloodshed. The entire world would be watching. The modern analogy is the breakup of the Soviet Union. The UN would be all over that shit if the US used it's military might on a state that wanted to secede peacefully.
I don't parallel the USSR's breakup with American state secession at all, as much as they may look similar on paper. Transitioning from democracy to democracy is the polar opposite of demanding freedom from tyranny and ideological constraints.
Second, who exactly in the UN would raise such a vote? You think anyone there wants beef with the USA? Not even in mass numbers would they even ponder about interfering with a localized American war. Economic sanctions and hard talk would be the limit of the UN's power.
It would not be a peaceful transition, there will never be any secession. It is technically illegal, as well, FWIW, which would fuel the propaganda, and again, I don't think there'd ever be enough support from Texans for it to actually work.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Dunno, a lot of Texans are pretty stupid and uneducated (before we even get to the brown and black ones), more "proud" of and attached to Texas than they are to UCA.
Just look at the posters in this thread saying secession is plausible, doable.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
Dunno, a lot of Texans are pretty stupid and uneducated (before we even get to the brown and black ones), more "proud" of and attached to Texas than they are to UCA.
Just look at the posters in this thread saying secession is plausible, doable.
You should go hang out @ the CNN boards. Douchebags over there are giggling at the prospect of the fires burning homes and killing Tx citizens. You'd fit right in with your irrational hatred of all things red.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
You should go hang out @ the CNN boards. Douchebags over there are giggling at the prospect of the fires burning homes and killing Tx citizens. You'd fit right in with your irrational hatred of all things red.
hang in there, pal. don't let the steam open your envelope.
-
Re: If Texas and Arizona Secede They'll Become Like Many African Countries
Quote:
Originally Posted by
clambake
hang in there, pal. don't let the steam open your envelope.
:lol
