Bloomberg: More Fed "stimulus" contemplated

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

It was misdirected for sure, but it was also too small. Its not an either or.

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That's fine, I can agree with that. The problem is that if it's misdirected, then more or less doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Unlike some, I understand that taxes and government spending don't disappear into a black hole.

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It matters whether or not the money is well spent, regardless. When public resources get malinvested, opportunities are lost.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's fine, I can agree with that. The problem is that if it's misdirected, then more or less doesn't matter.

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Not true. Misdirection provides a loss in efficiency. A less efficient use of stimulus obviously requires more stimulus to achieve the same results a more efficient stimulus would each with lower levels. As a result, the amount of stimulus is still just as important as the direction.

Obviously, you want to have the best possible efficiency, but if politics prevent that - in this case the desire for tax games that counted as stimulus - then your next option is to increase the overall size.

The short sighted nature of our politics also hurt. Remember the term shovel ready? We'd now be reaping the benefits of programs that could have been started that weren't shovel ready but would have taken longer to get into place but due to the desire to get everything into the system by this point in time (and perhaps to prevent a real resurgence prior to the 12 elections?) those programs were written off before they even had a chance.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

It matters whether or not the money is well spent, regardless. When public resources get malinvested, opportunities are lost.

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I think the ultimate point RG was making was that government investment at least partially pays for itself. As a rough example, if 1000 of government spending results in 500 dollars of worker salary the government recoups some of that money right away in income tax and further amounts later in subsequent taxing.

In other words it goes right into the system. I do agree with your point, I just don't think it was directly related to what RG said.

ok

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Unlike some, I understand that taxes and government spending don't disappear into a black hole.

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Most of the stimulus simply ended up on some bank's balance sheet. Not quite a black hole, but the next closest thing.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Not true. Misdirection provides a loss in efficiency. A less efficient use of stimulus obviously requires more stimulus to achieve the same results a more efficient stimulus would each with lower levels. As a result, the amount of stimulus is still just as important as the direction.

Obviously, you want to have the best possible efficiency, but if politics prevent that - in this case the desire for tax games that counted as stimulus - then your next option is to increase the overall size.

The short sighted nature of our politics also hurt. Remember the term shovel ready? We'd now be reaping the benefits of programs that could have been started that weren't shovel ready but would have taken longer to get into place but due to the desire to get everything into the system by this point in time (and perhaps to prevent a real resurgence prior to the 12 elections?) those programs were written off before they even had a chance.

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I think there's also a factor of corruption in there somewhere. Some (political) people associate stimulus with just a mere handout, and it doesn't have to be like that. You can actually plan and address specific economic needs, like, say unemployment.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Not true. Misdirection provides a loss in efficiency. A less efficient use of stimulus obviously requires more stimulus to achieve the same results a more efficient stimulus would each with lower levels. As a result, the amount of stimulus is still just as important as the direction.

Obviously, you want to have the best possible efficiency, but if politics prevent that - in this case the desire for tax games that counted as stimulus - then your next option is to increase the overall size.

The short sighted nature of our politics also hurt. Remember the term shovel ready? We'd now be reaping the benefits of programs that could have been started that weren't shovel ready but would have taken longer to get into place but due to the desire to get everything into the system by this point in time (and perhaps to prevent a real resurgence prior to the 12 elections?) those programs were written off before they even had a chance.

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Spoken like a politician. Just keep throwing money at the problem until the desired result is obtained.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Spoken like a politician. Just keep throwing money at the problem until the desired result is obtained.

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What's the alternative?

Be concerned about efficiency.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Be concerned about efficiency.

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I would add oversight is key.

Oversight is certainly a part. But you need a good plan from the beginning. The "just throw more money at it" approach is how you end up doing more harm than good. Case in point is the chunk of the stimulus that ended up with the banks. The banks are now sitting on the money, the taxpayers are getting no stimulative benefit from their investment, and they're stuck having to service the debt on that money which is going to be a drag against future growth.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Oversight is certainly a part. But you need a good plan from the beginning. The "just throw more money at it" approach is how you end up doing more harm than good. Case in point is the chunk of the stimulus that ended up with the banks. The banks are now sitting on the money, the taxpayers are getting no stimulative benefit from their investment, and they're stuck having to service the debt on that money which is going to be a drag against future growth.

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Agree. Wouldn't be surprised to hear some TARP money was returned from there.

reading the tea leaves on QE3:

http://dailycapitalist.com/2012/08/2...s-fairly-soon/

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

I see a lot of you tap dancing around nono's question.

Who is going to represent the "workers"?

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I've lost track; in regards to Stimulus?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I think there's also a factor of corruption in there somewhere. Some (political) people associate stimulus with just a mere handout, and it doesn't have to be like that. You can actually plan and address specific economic needs, like, say unemployment.

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How? (Seriously would like to hear your idea(s))

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

reading the tea leaves on QE3:

http://dailycapitalist.com/2012/08/2...s-fairly-soon/

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"The Committee will closely monitor incoming information on economic and financial developments and will provide additional accommodation as needed to promote a stronger economic recovery and sustained improvement in labor market conditions in a context of price stability"
I don't see anything infrastructure-friendly in that analysis.:depressed

It's going to businesses.....again.

businesses?

only huge financial entities get loans from the Fed, and that money doesn't trickle down.

Like earlier QEs, they use that to buy taxpayer guaranteed T-bonds, and gamble in the Wall St/international casino (and give to Gecko's campaign).

So now TB :lol is a believer in counter-cyclical Keynesian spending, stimulus?

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Originally Posted by 101A

How? (Seriously would like to hear your idea(s))

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I thought I touched on that on this previous post:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I think a much better investment would've come from financing direct temporary job creation, like infrastructure jobs. They're needed, they're temporary, they create jobs.

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Another way would be to spend some of that money in re-training some people that are currently unemployed and trained in industries we're just no longer competitive at.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

businesses?

only huge financial entities get loans from the Fed, and that money doesn't trickle down.

Like earlier QEs, they use that to buy taxpayer guaranteed T-bonds, and gamble in the Wall St/international casino (and give to Gecko's campaign).

So now TB :lol is a believer in counter-cyclical Keynesian spending, stimulus?

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You don't pay attention very well. I've always championed an infrastructure approach. Not surprising you can't see thru your confirmation bias filter.

boutons doesn't really read. he just catches at at words and phrases, forces them into his cliche generator and pretends that was your post.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23, thru the eyes of boutons

boutons is on to our VRWC/MIC/banksters conspiracy against vaginas. he just catches all our evil words and phrases, and forces us into pretending that we're not a bunch of Willard Gecko's minions.

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:wow

anything we might say to the contrary is just throw off the gullible and naive

I'd recommend a move to essay generator. It appears to be even more effective!

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An essay on VRWC
Let us commence a journey into the much travelled topic of VRWC. At one stage or another, every man woman or child will be faced with the issue of VRWC. Given that its influence pervades our society, it is impossible to overestimate its impact on modern thought. Crossing many cultural barriers it still draws remarks such as 'I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole' and 'i'd rather eat wasps' from the over 50, who form the last great hope for our civilzation. Keeping all of this in mind, in this essay I will examine the major issues.

Social Factors

There is cultural and institutional interdependence between members of any community. When Lance Bandaner said 'twelve times I've traversed the ocean of youthful ambition but society still collects my foot prints' [1] he, contrary to my learned colleague Sir George Allen’s recent publication ‘Into the eye of , could not have been referring to eighteenth century beliefs regarding society. Difference among people, race, culture and society is essential on the survival of our world, however VRWC irons out misconceptions from our consciousness.

Of paramount importance to any study of VRWC within its context, is understanding the ideals of society. Just as a dog will return to its own sick, society will return to VRWC, again and again.

Economic Factors

Derived from 'oikonomikos,' which means skilled in household management, the word economics is synonymous with VRWC. We will primarily be focusing on the Inter-Spam model, a classic economic system of analysis.
http://www.essaygenerator.com/images/graph_up_3.gif


VRWC

What a splendid graph. Clearly oil prices sings a very different tune. The financial press seems unable to make up its mind on these issues which unsettles investors.

Political Factors

Machiavellian politics is rife. Are our leaders justified in pursuing and maintaining political power? Comparing VRWC and much of what has been written of it can be like comparing pre and post war views of VRWC.

Let us consider the words of that silver tongued orator, the uncompromising Maximilian Tuigamala 'political change changes politics, but where does it go?' [2] Considered by many to be one of the 'Founding Fathers' of VRWC, his words cannot be over-looked. Perhaps the word which sums up the importance of VRWC to politics is 'participation'.

While VRWC may be a giant amongst men, is it a dwarf amongst policy? I hope not.
Conclusion

In summary, VRWC deserves all of the attention it gets. It fills a hole, it stimulates and always chips in.

Here with the final word is Hollywood's Shania Morissette: 'VRWC is the new rock and roll! And the new opera!' [3]

[1] Lance Bandaner - Adventurous Spirit - 1993 See-Saw Publishing

[2] Tuigamala - Captain Sir - 1844 Inevitable Publishing

[3] My VRWC! - Issue 4 - BFG Publishing

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

I'd recommend a move to essay generator. It appears to be even more effective!

http://www.essaygenerator.com/

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:lol

...........and bookmarked.