Delicious conservative hypocrisy

Ooooh man Stewert nails it again.


Yummy.

http://www.businessinsider.com/daily...y-video-2011-8

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Jon Stewart had a warm welcome in store for Megyn Kelly on "The Daily Show" last night.

After interpreting her maternity-leave rant in a fantastic mob dialect, Stewart delivered his counterpunch by pointing out that Kelly used to hate mandated benefits.

The fantastic mashup speaks for itself -- and makes Kelly look like a huge hypocrite.

"They're really only entitlements when it's something other people want," Stewart said. "When it's something you want... it's the foundation of a great society."

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Low quality, but here is the bit. (The segment can be seen at the link in the OP)

:lmao

It's not an entitlement.

conservativism at it's core is hypocritical

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

It's not an entitlement.

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Um, what?

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Um, what?

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Is paid maternity leave mandated by law in the US?

Gold. Stewart's been nailing it down of late.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Is paid maternity leave mandated by law in the US?

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Wait, so you think entitlements have to be mandated by law? :lol

You guys are hilarious when you try to play semantics like this.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Wait, so you think entitlements have to be mandated by law? :lol

You guys are hilarious when you try to play semantics like this.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Wait, so you think entitlements have to be mandated by law? :lol

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Aren't they?

(haven't looked at the OP yet)

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Is paid maternity leave mandated by law in the US?

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No.

Finally watched the OP - yep, Megyn Kelli is a hypocrite.

I'll become a socialist now.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

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Darrin, the first sentence from that link is below:

An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits basedon established rights or by legislation. A "right" is itself an entitlement associated with a moral or social principle, such that an "entitlement" is a provision made in accordance with legal framework of a society.

Federal law mandates that employers cannot fire female employees for taking maternity leave. Thus, I think there's certainly an entitlement to maternity leave for women who deliver babies, insofar as their jobs are protected by law.

Whether the leave is paid or not is a different question, but there is a basic entitlement to time off after the birth of a child.

When people talk about "entitlements" they are talking about the legally mandated variety.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Federal law mandates that employers cannot fire female employees for taking maternity leave. Thus, I think there's certainly an entitlement to maternity leave for women who deliver babies, insofar as their jobs are protected by law.

Whether the leave is paid or not is a different question, but there is a basic entitlement to time off after the birth of a child.

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Family Leave Act.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

When people talk about "entitlements" they are talking about the legally mandated variety.

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So leave mandated by federal law isn't an entitlement of the legally mandated variety?

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

So leave mandated by federal law isn't an entitlement of the legally mandated variety?

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I think I included the word "paid" in post #7.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Family Leave Act.

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Sure. That also protects the employee's right to leave. The "leave" is the entitlement -- before the Pregnancy Discrimination Act (or the FMLA), an employer was not prohibited from firing an employee for taking leave after the birth of a child. Now, the government protects the employee's right to that leave. If your definition of entitlement is a legally mandated right, I have no idea how you can argue that leave after pregnancy isn't an entitlement.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Family Leave Act.

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Yes. FMLA mandates that she has a job when she returns. How is that not an entitlement?

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Sure. That also protects the employee's right to leave. The "leave" is the entitlement -- before the Pregnancy Discrimination Act (or the FMLA), an employer was not prohibited from firing an employee for taking leave after the birth of a child. Now, the government protects the employee's right to that leave. If your definition of entitlement is a legally mandated right, I have no idea how you can argue that leave after pregnancy isn't an entitlement.

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I'm not disagreeing with you. Leave is an entitlement, PAID leave is not.

In Stewart's clip, the word "paid" is used only once by my count; Kelly's pre-leave rants about entitlements certainly aren't shown to have turned on the leave she rails against having been paid leave.

I'm not sure why you would insist upon it as an essential part of the definition of entitlement -- other than that it is the only way that your argument can even be tenable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

In Stewart's clip, the word "paid" is used only once by my count; Kelly's pre-leave rants about entitlements certainly aren't shown to have turned on the leave having been paid leave.

I'm not sure why you would insist upon it as an essential part of the definition of entitlement -- other than that it is the only way that your argument can even be tenable.

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When people talk about "entitlement programs" in the US, they are talking about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, not discretionary employee benefits.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Is paid maternity leave mandated by law in the US?

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I see what you did there.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

When people talk about "entitlement programs" in the US, they are talking about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, not discretionary employee benefits.

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I'd think you meant to say:

"When I and people who think like I do talk about 'entitlement programs' in the US, they are taking about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, not discretionary employee benefits."

And, since we're here, maternity leave isn't a discretionary benefit -- still.

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

Yes. FMLA mandates that she has a job when she returns. How is that not an entitlement?

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quotas!

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

When people talk about "entitlement programs" in the US, they are talking about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, not discretionary employee benefits.

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Not really.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I'd think you meant to say:

"When I and people who think like I do talk about 'entitlement programs' in the US, they are taking about SS, Medicare, and Medicaid, not discretionary employee benefits."

And, since we're here, maternity leave isn't a discretionary benefit -- still.

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You can always google "US Entitlement Programs" and see what you get.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not really.

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You guys aren't being serious.

/out

Good to hear you won't be bitching about foodstamps though.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

You guys aren't being serious.

/out

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Maybe now that you're done making an idiot of yourself in this thread you can go back to the climate thread and continue making an idiot of yourself there.

I get that Darrin makes a fun and easy target, but he's right that when a political conversation is being held about entitlements, that conversation is about SS, medicare and medicaid.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I get that Darrin makes a fun and easy target, but he's right that when a political conversation is being held about entitlements, that conversation is about SS, medicare and medicaid.

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Not here. How many discussions we had about Affirmative Action, foodstamps, etc?

Just do a search on the board for "entitlement mentality". You'll be surprised.

In all fairness, as a star on Fox Megyn Kelly would have gotten maternity leave with or without the FMLA.

Is it an entitlement if it just grants you something you already have?

Are medical leaves monitored by the government now?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Not here. How many discussions we had about Affirmative Action, foodstamps, etc?

Just do a search on the board for "entitlement mentality". You'll be surprised.

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I did, and most of what I see are posts from 2008 about religion.

Sure, you can make a bunch of different things fit into the entitlement definition, but when a politician or pundit stands up to talk about entitelements, they're talking about those three specific programs. To pretend otherwise is just being obtuse.

Does the government lose anything on account of medical leaves?

Do tax payers have their pay taxed in order to make these medical leaves possible?

Are apples oranges?

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Is it an entitlement if it just grants you something you already have?

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If you need a law to say that your job will be protected while you take leave, I think it's fair to say that the law entitles you to leave. Before that law, you had the option to take leave but only by gambling that a job would remain available to you upon your return.

Do govt employees get paid on maternity leave?....

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Are medical leaves monitored by the government now?

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Quote:

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The Federal Government offers numerous leave flexibilities to assist employees in meeting their work and family obligations, including paid time off for childbirth and adoption and care of the newborn or adopted child. Federal employee leave benefits are based on employee service credit and time in a pay status. A new employee begins Government service accruing 13 days of annual leave each year. After 3 years of service, the annual leave accrual rate increases to 20 days each year, and at 15 years of service, the employee accrues 26 days of annual leave each leave year. The amount of annual leave that may be carried over from one leave year to the next is capped at 240 hours (30 days) for most employees. At any time in the leave year, an agency may advance to an employee the amount of annual leave he or she would accrue during the remainder of the leave year.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Sure, you can make a bunch of different things fit into the entitlement definition, but when a politician or pundit stands up to talk about entitelements, they're talking about those three specific programs. To pretend otherwise is just being obtuse.

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The things that Kelly was railing about before her leave weren't confined to those programs. In the "before" clips, Kelly specifically railed about the idea that FMLA gives men the right to take leave after the birth of their child without any mention of pay; in the "after" clip, Kelly scolds her guest about the availability of leave for men under the FMLA (even going so far as to note its availability for 12 weeks) and suggests that the post-childbirth allowance for leave in this country is insufficient because it doesn't require that such leave be paid leave.

I don't think the point of this is about politicians in general, nor could Stewart's clip establish that point. But Stewart shows the changed view of Megyn Kelly and her fierce support of the entitlement to leave after childbirth and leaves it to viewers to conclude that she might be a hypocrite who enjoys the fruits of an entitlement policy that she has so vigorously challenged in the past.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

I did, and most of what I see are posts from 2008 about religion.

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Really?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...34#post5287834
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...68#post5237768
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...09#post5132309
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...98#post4999298
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...97#post4988097

That's just this year alone. Not surprised to see the usual suspects though.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

The things that Kelly was railing about before her leave weren't confined to those programs. In the "before" clips, Kelly specifically railed about the idea that FMLA gives men the right to take leave after the birth of their child without any mention of pay; in the "after" clip, Kelly scolds her guest about the availability of leave for men under the FMLA (even going so far as to note its availability for 12 weeks) and suggests that the post-childbirth allowance for leave in this country is insufficient because it doesn't require that such leave be paid leave.

I don't think the point of this is about politicians in general, nor could Stewart's clip establish that point. But Stewart shows the changed view of Megyn Kelly and her fierce support of the entitlement to leave after childbirth and leaves it to viewers to conclude that she might be a hypocrite who enjoys the fruits of an entitlement policy that she has so vigorously challenged in the past.

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I'm not saying Kelly isn't a hypocrite. I'm just agreeing with Darrin that when someone says "entitlement program" they're not talking about FMLA.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Really?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...34#post5287834
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...68#post5237768
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...09#post5132309
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...98#post4999298
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...97#post4988097

That's just this year alone. Not surprised to see the usual suspects though.

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Ok. The point?

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Ok. The point?

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Same as before. Not all people talking about 'entitlements' restrict them to SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Same as before. Not all people talking about 'entitlements' restrict them to SS, Medicare, and Medicaid.

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"entitlement mentality" =/= "entitlement program"

But, since we can rest assured that WC will eventually stumble upon this thread to discuss all the keener points of the context of the video in the OP, we can let him weigh in on what programs he thinks are being referred to when someone talks about entitlement programs.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

"entitlement mentality" =/= "entitlement program"

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But Darrin's comment wasn't about programs:

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

It's not an entitlement.

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So we're discussing this as an entitlement vs non-entitlement.

Not sure where 'programs' came into play.

Probably a post-facto goalpost move, tbh

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Ok. The point?

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Good luck with that.

And if we're sticking with programs, foodstamps is another "handout" government program too.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Good luck with that.

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I thought you already ran away from your claim (/out)?

Maybe the thread title is spot on...

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

conservativism at it's core is hypocritical

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oh really? Do tell.

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

oh really? Do tell.

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Uh oh......TB's here.

http://www.excusememe.com/pics/imagebase/5208.gif

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Originally Posted by Agloco

Uh oh......TB's here.

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If you've had your shots, you're ok.:lol

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Originally Posted by ElNono

And if we're sticking with programs, foodstamps is another "handout" government program too.

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Not to mention that Evil WIC.:ihit

I mean, who the hell wants to feed women, infants and children? Sure as hell not conservatives! Right?

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

I mean, who the hell wants to feed women, infants and children? Sure as hell not conservatives! Right?

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That's what charity is for... and if charity isn't enough, tough cookie.

Cookies? Let them eat cake!

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Cookies? Let them eat cake!

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:lol

We're all out of cake.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Good luck with that.

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Good luck with getting you to show your face back in a thread like the climate topic after you've exhausted your bullshit links received in an email you partisan hack.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

We're all out of cake.

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Buzzkill.:depressed

That last bit about maternity/paternity leave is brutal.

That said, I'm very glad that the military grants paternity leave now, as I'll be taking advantage of it soon enough.

Edit: Dang, 12 weeks? I'm happy to get 10 days. :lol

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Are medical leaves monitored by the government now?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by GGA

"The Federal Government offers numerous leave flexibilities to assist employees in meeting their work and family obligations, including paid time off for childbirth and adoption and care of the newborn or adopted child. Federal employee leave benefits are based on employee service credit and time in a pay status. A new employee begins Government service accruing 13 days of annual leave each year. After 3 years of service, the annual leave accrual rate increases to 20 days each year, and at 15 years of service, the employee accrues 26 days of annual leave each leave year. The amount of annual leave that may be carried over from one leave year to the next is capped at 240 hours (30 days) for most employees. At any time in the leave year, an agency may advance to an employee the amount of annual leave he or she would accrue during the remainder of the leave year."

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i think it's pretty obvious the government would oversee a government employee's medical leave. i didn't think i had to make that disclaimer. oh well. Thanks, Mr Obvious :tu

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

That last bit about maternity/paternity leave is brutal.

That said, I'm very glad that the military grants paternity leave now, as I'll be taking advantage of it soon enough.

Edit: Dang, 12 weeks? I'm happy to get 10 days. :lol

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Oh, you lucky dog. My husband had to take a week of regular leave every time we had a kid :lol

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Originally Posted by desflood

Oh, you lucky dog. My husband had to take a week of regular leave every time we had a kid :lol

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I know. They just approved paternity leave a few months before I had my first kid; I was pretty happy about that!

Then again, I could afford to take the leave... right now, I'm carrying 75 days over to the next fiscal year.

Dont you already have like 1200 kids, LnG?:lol

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Dont you already have like 1200 kids, LnG?:lol

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This will be the 2nd. It's just that the first one was only 1 year, 9 mos ago. :)

I'm pretty sure we'll be set with two boys for awhile. :lol

Is this bit delicious and yummy also RG?

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Jon Stewart Rips Ed Schultz For Rick Perry Clip (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_930618.html

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who is ed schultz?

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Is this bit delicious and yummy also RG?

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No. It's not RED. That's the official "delicious" shade.:jack

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Is this bit delicious and yummy also RG?

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I think so!

Ed Schultz reminds me of Francis Buxton. :lol only angrier.

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Are medical leaves monitored by the government now?

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And yes, GGA. There's actual intercourse in hardcore porn. Just want to make that more obviouser.

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Originally Posted by Agloco

Gold. Stewart's been nailing it down of late.

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It appears he does, but not really.

Most corporations have had maternity for years now. Just not as a paid benefit, but to use your own accrued vacation time.

Why is she a hypocrite for using an employer provided benefit? I agree it is wrong for the government to require such things, especially if it is a paid benefit. I don't see how her view differs from that. Now to require all places adopt a voluntary benefit other places has is changing it to an entitlement.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

It appears he does, but not really.

Most corporations have had maternity for years now. Just not as a paid benefit, but to use your own accrued vacation time.

Why is she a hypocrite for using an employer provided benefit? I agree it is wrong for the government to require such things, especially if it is a paid benefit. I don't see how her view differs from that. Now to require all places adopt a voluntary benefit other places has is changing it to an entitlement.

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You didn't really watch the clip, did you?

She started going on about the benefits of the Family Leave Act.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

You didn't really watch the clip, did you?

She started going on about the benefits of the Family Leave Act.

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I did, what did I miss? As far as I know, the act does not require employers to pay for the absence. It's been around for some time now too.

Do you guys give each other points for each display of ignorance?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Do you guys give each other points for each display of ignorance?

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You and random can have those points today.

I didn't see anything hypocritical. She is not asking for an entitlement of paid leave. The FMLA act requires large employer to provide unpaid leave for having a newborn, and other instances.

Be the ignorant one, and let those telling the story frame it for you.

Question. Wouldn't FMLA be considered more of a civil right action as opposed to an "entitlement"?

And no one has answered my other question.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

You and random can have those points today.

I didn't see anything hypocritical. She is not asking for an entitlement of paid leave. The FMLA act requires large employer to provide unpaid leave for having a newborn, and other instances.

Be the ignorant one, and let those telling the story frame it for you.

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So she can just leave when she shits out a kid and get her job back when she comes back?

Why should an employer be forced to put up with that?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So she can just leave when she shits out a kid and get her job back when she comes back?

Why should an employer be forced to put up with that?

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Are you even serious or just maintaining your "?" quota? I dare you to say that in a room full of women.

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Are you even serious or just maintaining your "?" quota? I dare you to say that in a room full of women.

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Even conservative ones!

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Question. Wouldn't FMLA be considered more of a civil right action as opposed to an "entitlement"?

And no one has answered my other question.

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I don't know what to consider it. I think the requirement to have some is necessary, I think the mandatory time frame is excessive though.

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Does the government lose anything on account of medical leaves?

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Depends on if it's paid leave or not.

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Do tax payers have their pay taxed in order to make these medical leaves possible?

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Don't know. Are any of them paid leaves outside of using accrued vacation days?

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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas

Are apples oranges?

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I have noticed some people here think they are.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So she can just leave when she shits out a kid and get her job back when she comes back?

Why should an employer be forced to put up with that?

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It's only larger employers. It's not mandated on business that cannot deal with such transitions.

Now I agree this shouldn't be necessary. All good employers I have worked for gave their employees good benefits as incentives to work for them, instead of someone else. Still, with a baby, there are instances when the mother must take time off. To make it legally fair, they had to extend that to the father too.

My wife just had to file for federal FMLA under the self-health provision (state FMLA statutes normally only cover pregnancy and relative-health, not self-health).

Wages are not covered, but the employer has to keep contributing to the health coverage and has to reinstate the employee at the end of the LOA.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

My wife just had to file for federal FMLA under the self-health provision (state FMLA statutes normally only cover pregnancy and relative-health, not self-health).

Wages are not covered, but the employer has to keep contributing to the health coverage and has to reinstate the employee at the end of the LOA.

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Yes, so one could say the employer pays, but they pay this anyway when paid or unpaid leave is granted for other reasons. The difference is that this is a leave the employer cannot refuse.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I did, what did I miss? As far as I know, the act does not require employers to pay for the absence. It's been around for some time now too.

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Fuck, you still haven't watched it have you?

She went out and railed against the Family Leave Act a few years ago, then has a kid and gets all militant in support of it.

Don't shit me by trying to say that if I had asked you about the Family Leave Act before this you would not have pegged it as a gub'mint handout.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Fuck, you still haven't watched it have you?

She went out and railed against the Family Leave Act a few years ago, then has a kid and gets all militant in support of it.

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Not by the link I saw. That was a bunch of edited stuff. I don;'t know what was snipped together.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

Don't shit me by trying to say that if I had asked you about the Family Leave Act before this you would not have pegged it as a gub'mint handout.

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It isn't a handout.

Why would I? I was aware of this more than a decade ago. Now I don't agree entirely with it, but at least women should have their jobs protected in most cases when the employer is large enough that it doesn't really have an impact. I disagree with all cases, but most, yes.

As one of the few in this thread to have given birth, I think the leave for maternity is excessive. Six weeks to recover physically and return to your job in due diligence is enough. If you want to stay out longer to bond with your child-- like I did-- quit your job and stay at home. No one should have to hold your job while you take optional time off for which you have no saved leave. Men should have to use saved leave to take time off, as well. Why should you get extra paid time off because you chose to have a kid. Save up your vacation for when it is born or take time off without pay.

+1