New Mexico hero who saved girl says he's in United States illegally

IMO, barring any felony that they should do time for, they should be sent back. Locking them up for any extended period of time is a waste of time and money.

I found this about that Pew research doc, that it says was from 2006.

I'll take back the 'most' and just say 40% of them do come in legally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

I found this about that Pew research doc, that it says was from 2006.

I'll take back the 'most' and just say 40% of them do come in legally.

---

There's no way to know. That doesn't mean you are wrong, just that it's pointless to give numbers to things that are happening in an uncontrolled, undocumented fashion.

Anyhow, the numbers are unimportant. Expired visas are the same as expired drivers licenses. We get caught with expired permits, we are charged with a crime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Anyhow, the numbers are unimportant. Expired visas are the same as expired drivers licenses. We get caught with expired permits, we are charged with a crime.

---

Driving with expired permits is a crime. Having expired permits is not a crime.

And I disagree that numbers are not important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyson_Chandler

all those with expired visa's surely have expired drivers licenses as well

---

And that's how we're going to catch them.

To expand on why I think numbers matter, in order to tackle the problem you need to know what you're dealing with. A lot of people talk about electric fences, army in the border, etc. But if you have half of the people coming in legally then that's just not going to be as effective as it needs to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tyson_Chandler

all those with expired visa's surely have expired drivers licenses as well

---

tbh, except for one or two states, you can't get a driver license without papers.
Other than a counterfeit license obviously. China has actually been producing high-quality counterfeit licenses lately (more here)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Under Title 8 Section 1325 of the U.S. Code, "Improper Entry by Alien," any citizen of any country other than the United States who:

• Enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers; or
• Eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers; or
• Attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact;

has committed a federal crime.


"Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed."

---

i'm glad illegal meant illegal back then

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

Driving with expired permits is a crime. Having expired permits is not a crime.

---

Overstaying a visa will get you civil penalties and possibly deported. Entering illegally is a crime. The penalty difference doesn't negate the similarity of the infractions. A person's license could expire while they are driving, if they are driving past midnight (although there's normally a 5 day grace period). Both are permits, both have expired while the person is still engaged in what the permit allows.

Quote:

---

And I disagree that numbers are not important.

---

They aren't important for our discussion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

They aren't important for our discussion.

---

I thought we're talking about illegal immigration. As I stated previously, I do think it matters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

I thought we're talking about illegal immigration. As I stated previously, I do think it matters.

---

You need to divide your argument into subcategories to avoid moving the goalposts.

On one hand you have the illegal, undocumented immigrants from Mexico. I believe a good deal of the hub bub has been about them. Certainly the OP was talking about an undocumented immigrant.

On the other you have expired visas from all different parts of the world. I haven't heard much from that side of the room since they are documented and known to be in the country and should be rather easily rounded up.

Being an undocumented immigrant is a crime. Having an expired visa is not.

Let's address one at a time.

(double post)

What was the system of becoming a U.S. citizen back in the day? Getting off the boat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4>0rings

What was the system of becoming a U.S. citizen back in the day? Getting off the boat?

---

At Ellis Island and going through the process of registering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

At Ellis Island and going through the process of registering.

---

So marking an X on a book. Before Ellis Island?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

You need to divide your argument into subcategories to avoid moving the goalposts.

Being an undocumented immigrant is a crime. Having an expired visa is not.

Let's address one at a time.

---

Well, that was my argument. You summed it up pretty well.

Now both cases are illegal. No doubt about it.

As far as what can be done about it, I think we've discussed that a few times. We can rehash some of that if that's what you're looking for.

During the wars was an exception, since most of them were refugees. The US actually closed the port entry in NY back in WWII at some point once they received enough and re-routed the ships to other ports in Latin America.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 4>0rings

So marking an X on a book. Before Ellis Island?

---

Nice strawman.



You'll have to ask Culbert. I wasn't around then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

Well, that was my argument. You summed it up pretty well.

Now both cases are illegal. No doubt about it.

As far as what can be done about it, I think we've discussed that a few times. We can rehash some of that if that's what you're looking for.

---

Who was referring to expired visas before you brought it up?

When the OP says "they are not all criminals", unless he's talking about every immigrant who doesn't have current legal status, I took it to mean, tongue in cheek, that not all undocumented immigrants are criminals when, by the nature of being what they are, they are criminals. Are they bad people? Most I've met aren't, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

Who was referring to expired visas before you brought it up?

When the OP says "they are not all criminals", unless he's talking about every immigrant who doesn't have current legal status, I took it to mean, tongue in cheek, that not all undocumented immigrants are criminals when, by the nature of being what they are, they are criminals. Are they bad people? Most I've met aren't, but that's neither here nor there.

---

Sorry, I didn't even read the OP. Your comment about 'criminals' just stood out, and I wanted to point out that technicality. That's all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMC

They are all criminals. Being here illegally makes you a criminal.

---

entry is the criminal/civil infraction; being here isn't.