Why Did we Bring in Brent Barry If We're Not Going to Use Him When He's Hot?

I'd love to hear Pop explain it. Barry was brought in to shoot from outside, and the guy was on tonight. You gotta roll with that when he's hot.

What, 21 minutes isn't good enough?

But I agree. No way Manu should've gotten more minutes than Barry tonight.

Of course, if Manu had gone on a fourth quarter tear like in Game 1, we'd feel pretty stupid for supporting Barry, right?

Hindsight is 20/20.

How many shots did Barry get? That's what I thought.

I agree.

I couldn't beleive when POP took both Barry and Rasho out...they were both having good games..moving well, and going strong. Go with whats working.

And that one Barry "Dr J" move on the reverse was sweet.

So you guys wanted Manu to sit in the 4th?

he is shit scared to dribble. when the pistons put on the full court press he could have dribbled it up but instead passed it back to beno for the TO

why? why is he afraid to dribble the fucking ball...and this isnt the first time and only time hhe did this in the game...its mind-bogging

Pop, you have some splaining to do.

Considering how he was playing? I have always been an advocate of going with the hot hand.

Tonight that was clearly Barry. And there's nothing wrong with playing them together when Detroit went small - you can put Tony, Brent, and Manu out there together when Detroit was running Hunter/Billups/Rip.

I think it would have given Detroit fits to run a Tony/Barry pick and roll. But then you're talking about getting creative at the offensive end.

Brent should have played the whole 4th Q, he was redhot.

You are dumbass Inagra...when you got two fucking guys trapping what does that mean?

Did you notice every guys on the Spurs was passing to beat it as well?

That's means someone doesn't have a defender on him...I am sick of you guys calling smart fucking play cowardice...ya'll are fucking stupid when you do that.

Dude has played his whole fucking career on guard oriented teams...he knows how to handl the defensive pressure being on the guards....it's the one thing he does know.

You want the guy to dribble up the court with two motherfuckers pressing him...that's fucking stupid.

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But then you're talking about getting creative at the offensive end.

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that offense was ok in games 1 and 2.

Wow, sounds like coaching an NBA team is easy. Just keep your players on the court when they're hot. Never mind if they aren't used to playing extended minutes.

Manu was cold as liquid nitrogen in the beginning of game 1. So according to all you geniuses, Pop should have pulled him, and not let him play in the 4th, right?

no way you take out an mvp of the series (so far) for brent. especially after a game 1 where he had 4pts at the half and then went off for 22 in the second. it is all about the team, but the matchups were the same here in san antonio - and the rotations have been set for some time. if he's having a rough night, you let him play through them. (tim didnt have a game 1 type game either, do you take him out?)

whott better stfu alrite. i didnt call u out or anythin. he wasn't double teamed on that play. if i remember correct. but he is scared to dribble now..thas a fact. how many fucken gif's do u want?

TPark...why the hell did Barry get more PT in a game he didn't make a shot than he did tonight? Doesn't that seem a little bit odd to you?

This is the shit Pop does that drives me insane...he just does it for no fucking apparent reason...it's like he gets tired of dominating or something...like he doesn't want the team to get overconfident...

We need points...even with shitty play the tempo had been keeping us in the game all night...

So what do we do when Detroit has a little luck with the trap? And gets a lead in the 4th?

We sloooooooooooooooooow it down...trailing...we run the most predictable offense that we have...one that the bobcats know how to stop...

That shit just drives me crazy...

Pop hasn't done that in a long time...

Even still it's not all on Pop...

They were doubling Duncan and he was not passing it...

Not just to Barry...Bowen stopped getting it too...and he was having another good shooting night.



It's almost like Duncan knows that his usual claim to the MVP is being challenged and he was forcing it trying to get numbers.

That was only time I have ever seen Duncan play like that in the finals.

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Originally Posted by inagra

whott better stfu alrite. i didnt call u out or anythin. he wasn't double teamed on that play. if i remember correct. but he is scared to dribble now..thas a fact. how many fucken gif's do u want?

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It's called a trap and you can't do it with one guy...

the other player was leaving his check to come double up on barry. he was 3 feet away from half court

And that's what you are supposed to do when you are getting trapped...that's why teams don't do it for entire games, because they can get burnt...Horry was open wasn't he?

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Originally Posted by whottt

It's almost like Duncan knows that his usual claim to the MVP is being challenged and he was forcing it trying to get numbers.

That was only time I have ever seen Duncan play like that in the finals.

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its good you said the finals because he kinda had a game like this in the western conference finals? (game 4) i dont think tim is selfish, i think he saw manu having a bad night and wanted to come up big. detroit just played him harder and he had a bad night to boot.

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that offense was ok in games 1 and 2.

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With all due respect, you don't know shit about offense if you think we ran the same plays tonight as we ran in games 1 and 2.

Lots of iso, standing around, and 4down tonight. Ugly.

Barry and Bowen were hitting it bigtime tonight, Manu was too for that matter(from 3)...don't tell me Duncan didn't know it. He was trying to get his...no matter how many guys he had on him.

Pop dropped it like it's hot...dropped it like it's hot.

so you think manu had a good game... and that barry and bowen are going to win you a game when your inside presence (tim) isnt established?

Tim was plenty established...he was drawing doubles. His teamates were open..it's his job to kick it out...he wasn't doing it.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Tim was plenty established...he was drawing doubles. His teamates were open..it's his job to kick it out...he wasn't doing it.

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winning games by shooting three's isnt how we got to the finals. that isnt even how phoenix got to the western conference finals? tim was doubled and passing lanes were cut off alot quicker in this game. yeah he probably shares the blame for not seeing everything quicker... but llast game, manu had 7 assists - and most of those were penetrations to kickouts for 3's by open guys... like bowen and horry.

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winning games by shooting three's isnt how we got to the finals.

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You do realize, right, that we got both of our rings by shooting threes.

We also kicked Detroit's ass in game 2 shooting threes.

We also would have kicked their ass tonight if we would have let Bowen and Barry keep shooting them.

you want to sit our playoff mvp for brent fucking barry? i hate you people

Um...hitting threes off Duncan double teams is how we have won two NBA titles...

Do we need a refresher course from 03 on what happened when we didn't play Steve Kerr VS when we did?

Do we need a recap of just what transpired in game 6 of that series that enabled us to come back?

Duncan did not score a point during the 19-2 run to win that game...he did however have about 5 assists.

On top of that it was stupid because if he'd passed out of it more tonight he'd have had less bodies in the paint...

Duncan knows this stuff...every finals game of his career has been a textbook on how to be the perfect basketball player...

And the thing is...the Spurs could have run some plays for someone else if Duncan was doing what he was supposed to do and it wasn't working.

What the hell is wrong with playing Barry alongside Manu? IS there some rule in the playbook that you only get to play one SG at a time?

Shit, Detroit went small with Hunter, Billups, and Rip at the 1-3 spots, that would have been the perfect time for a Tony-Barry-Manu perimeter pairing.

With 4 minutes left, the Spurs still could've put together some shots and I think they turned it over 3 straight times without even a shot attempt or a shitty one at that.

Just spread the floor, pass the ball and start knocking down shots... There was to much bullshit on the floor tonight. Possessions with no shots?

Spurs in Five.

I've been bitching about Barry not getting enough minutes with Manu all season, I think there is a rule that they can't play together or something...and their games totally compliment each other and Parkers.....Manu's game with Duncan is not his natural game...

But to be fair...there wasn't a damn thing wrong with Bruce's offense tonight...I wasn't in that big of a hurry to see him pulled off the court.

I'd like to thank Brent Barry for curling up into a giant vagina in the final minute of the third. Nothing pleases me more than to see him hemorrage the fucking ball at the first sign of defensive pressure.

The way the Spurs win is by attacking the rim, not by giving Barry more opportunities to give the opponent the rock.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

You do realize, right, that we got both of our rings by shooting threes.

We also kicked Detroit's ass in game 2 shooting threes.

We also would have kicked their ass tonight if we would have let Bowen and Barry keep shooting them.

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oh ok... i thought it was because of the twin towers and timely three point shooting that we won in 99. i thought it was because we had the mental toughness to push through aggressive play or calls in 2003... and that we had to rely on steve kerr for good shooting because we had very few slashers who could finish consistently.

i also thought it was ball movement that won that last game? good penetrations deep into the lane and kickouts... swinging the ball to the open shooter and hitting 3's like that?

now... i know it was tim duncan and his 20+ assists that won it for us.

seriously, i think this team is very different than any other championship teams we've had because it can win "inside or out". and tony parker and manu have basically come into their own and changed the team... plus sometimes tim is gonna have a bad game.

I don't fucking get it. On the one hand AHF bitches again and again and again about Pop going to 4down and now he wants that with Barry launching 23 footers instead of Ginobili and Parker fucking driving to the hole.

Shut the fuck up already man.

"Duncan knows this stuff...every finals game of his career has been a textbook on how to be the perfect basketball player..."

that's what's so frustrating, the whole Spurs team knows this drill, inside, no go, then out, inside/out, Bruce, Tony, and Brent were hitting their jumpers.

Why TF do the Spurs have to forget what they know, not do what they have done so well so many times, and lose a winnable game by not making in-game adjustments??

The paint was clogged, just like LA last May, and Tim kept trying to force it, to put it on the floor, begging to get stripped.

I'm just amazed you haven't opined that if we had Rose tonight, things would have been different.

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Originally Posted by SPARKY

I thoroughly enjoyed tonights loss, the only thing that would have made it better was if AJ had dropped by to slap his nuts against my chin for the entire 4th

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Marcus...when ever you think you have point...STFU and remember that if you had gotten your way Jason Kidd would be out there gimping around making 15 TO's per game for 15 million a season and neither Parker(the best player on the team tonight) or Manu would be here..

Dumbasses hating on the 3 tonight...Threes were the only reason we were in the damn game in the first place...the three was there and we did try to take it into the paint...Guess what happened? 18 fucking turnovers is what fucking happened. We had the inside in games 1 and 2 Detroit took it away tonight and you clowns can't come up with a better solution than to do it even more.


And we made 18 fucking turnovers tonight...one of which was made by Barry and it wasn't on that play in the third.

You don't win this game by jacking up 3s in the 4th. You win it by taking care of the rock and attacking the rim.

You certainly don't win it by putting the ball in Brent Barry's hands. Spurs might as well save the time and pass it to a Piston.

Well we took it inside in the 4th...guess what happened?

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Originally Posted by whott

They were doubling Duncan and he was not passing it...
Not just to Barry...Bowen stopped getting it too...and he was having another good shooting night.
It's almost like Duncan knows that his usual claim to the MVP is being challenged and he was forcing it trying to get numbers.

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are you telling us Duncan played selfish tonight, Whott?


[/QUOTE=Constantrate]no way you take out an mvp of the series (so far) for brent. [/QUOTE] ...and WHY not? BTW, has Manu really locked the MVP award? :nope

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Originally Posted by milkyway21

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are you telling us Duncan played selfish tonight, Whott?


[/QUOTE=constantrate]no way you take out an mvp of the series (so far) for brent.

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...and WHY not? BTW, has Manu really locked the MVP award? :nope[/QUOTE]

try using the finger wag when a guy plays more than 29 mins. manu had a bad game, 2-6 in 29mins with 6 t.o.s - it happens. duncan had a bad game 5-15 in 38mins. barry played 21mins... more than his usual... because manu was in foul trouble...

but yeah.. i still say you stick with manu. and yeah if he has another 25+ game where we win and he's the primary reason... that should lock it up for him. so far he's had 26 and 27 and been the reason we've won. the 3rd should do it.

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Originally Posted by constantstate

...and WHY not? BTW, has Manu really locked the MVP award? :nope

try using the finger wag when a guy plays more than 29 mins. manu had a bad game, 2-6 in 29mins with 6 t.o.s - it happens. duncan had a bad game 5-15 in 38mins. barry played 21mins... more than his usual... because manu was in foul trouble...

but yeah.. i still say you stick with manu. and yeah if he has another 25+ game where we win and he's the primary reason... that should lock it up for him. so far he's had 26 and 27 and been the reason we've won. the 3rd should do it.

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Explain how Barry got more minutes in game 2...when Manu went off, Bruce went off, and Barry went scoreless...

It's mystifying how Pop does this stuff...kinda like Kerr smoking the Nets in game 3(a win) and not getting played in game 4(a loss)...and then getting played again in game 5(a win)...

Pop's answer when asked that very question after a game 4 choke?

Because I decided to do something different...

Pop does this stuff just so he can say he's coaching and look like he's doing something other than sitting on his butt watching his team dismantle it's opponents. That's the only reason I can think of for him doing it...just so he can do something to make it look like he's doing something.

game 2 was a blowout. parker was in foul trouble and bowen played less mins too.

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Originally Posted by constantstate

game 2 was a blowout.

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So was this game.

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parker was in foul trouble

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That'd B great if Barry is ever on the court instead of Parker or Beno...he isn't. Less minutes for Parker means more for Beno and no one else.

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and bowen played less mins too.

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So why is Bruce the only one that happens to...

That still doesn't answer the question of why Barry got more minutes in a game he didn't score than he did tonight when he didn't miss from 3...

We missed a golden opportunity...

Barry is nearly always is hot late in the game if we go to him. That's when he's made most of his shot this season. When he's hot early and we get him the ball he doesn't miss but like 2 or 3 shots for the rest of the game...he usually ends up with a line like 4-4, 5-5, or 6-8 something like that from 3.

Pop just did this shit to prove he's the coach and he knows more than the fans and reporters...that's why he does it...

Just like with Kerr..it was so obvious it was the right move to make...when even Peter Vescey ends up punking him on it you know it was a bad move...and he didn't do it just because wanted to prove to the fans and reporters that he knows more than they do...he's the one in charge and he's not going to take orders from the fans or reporters...even if it is the right move to make. I know he does for some reason like that...he's the one that builds the perfect team and then doesn't use the pieces he's put together the obvious way they should be used.

And BTW...I hate to tell you and Marcus this...but when we are posting Duncan up it's either for Duncan to score or to get other guys open at the 3 point line...so you guys ragging on the 3 and saying it's not the object need to explain why our crunch time offense is posting up Duncan and trying to get guys open from 3. Thje object of that offense is not to try and run Parker or Manu in there when Duncan has already sucked a second defender in there.

It wasn't the lack of three point shooting that lost this game. It was the ball handling. They couldn't get the entry pass into Tim, they couldn't beat the press for stretches, and Manu was throwing the ball around.

They clean up the ball handling and they will be just fine.

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Originally Posted by TimVP

Show me the Brent Barry thread that I missed. Where is it?

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Bump for you know who...

Barry played well. Better than I thought he could play in this series. I'll give him that.

But to say that the Spurs should have gone with Barry over Manu is dumb. Manu has been Mr. Fourth Quarter in the playoffs. He could have brought the Spurs back singlehandedly if he got it going. Barry was hitting shots off of doulbe teams from Tim ... but those dried up in the second half.

To say you wanted the Spurs to roll with any lineup other than the traditional closing lineup shows how fickle of a fan you are.

Tim countlessly left guys standing around him with wide open 3's and refused to kick it out, even though he wasn't hitting his shots. Now, do I think he needs to kick the ball out everytime he gets a pass in the post...? No. But, to keep the defense honest, and to get the ball to guys like Barry and Bowen who were hot, he needs to adjust his game at times. Last night, he refused to adjust, and it cost us.

To throw in my answer to the original question, Brent Barry still hestitates at open looks and has been happier passing the ball than taking the shot. That's reason number 1 to take him out in favor of the guy who had previously had two amazing fourth quarters. Second reason to take him out is that he creates a defensive mismatch at each position.

He had a good game, but I would have pulled him too.

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Originally Posted by constantstate

i thought it was because we had the mental toughness to push through aggressive play or calls in 2003... and that we had to rely on steve kerr for good shooting because we had very few slashers who could finish consistently.

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no you are thinking entirely wrong, we hit clutch threes throughout every game, and most importantly in the fourth, almost entirely due to the fact htat they double teamed duncan and he kicked it out.

One player stood up above all others in terms of shooting clutch 4th quarter threes (See: Jackson, Stephen)

A little too late will not get you more playing time.

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Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

no you are thinking entirely wrong, we hit clutch threes throughout every game, and most importantly in the fourth, almost entirely due to the fact htat they double teamed duncan and he kicked it out.

One player stood up above all others in terms of shooting clutch 4th quarter threes (See: Jackson, Stephen)

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the statement was made that kicking it out for three's is how we won 2 championships. if that was true david and tim would have had 10 assists a piece. it was timely shooting... yes... and those threes were awesome back-breaking killers. but do you remember the dallas series? (See: Kerr, Steve)

game 2 we hit a bunch of 3's and all of a sudden we're a 3 point shooting team... who wins outside/in and not inside/out or dribble penetration for kickouts... and ball movement to open guys? man.

At the cost of losing some defense, I think timely substitutions of Barry for Bowen might work offensively because Barry gets respect and opens up the floor. Like in the classic game in Phoenix.