It's a simple question.
Given what you know now, do you believe the CBS memos are authentic or, do you believe they are forged? Don't be so Kerryesque...surely you have a gut feeling, one way or the other.
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It's a simple question.
Given what you know now, do you believe the CBS memos are authentic or, do you believe they are forged? Don't be so Kerryesque...surely you have a gut feeling, one way or the other.
CBS had Matley on as the man who authenticated the documents last Friday.
And this is CBS's original press release.
CBSnewsQuote:
Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real. But he is concerned about exactly what is being examined by some of the people questioning the documents, because deterioration occurs each time a document is reproduced. And the documents being analyzed outside of CBS have been photocopied, faxed, scanned and downloaded, and are far removed from the documents CBS started with.
Matley did this interview with us prior to Wednesday's "60 Minutes" broadcast. He looked at the documents and the signatures of Col. Killian, comparing known documents with the colonel's signature on the newly discovered ones.
"We look basically at what's called significant or insignificant features to determine whether it's the same person or not," Matley said. "I have no problem identifying them. I would say based on our available handwriting evidence, yes, this is the same person."
Matley finds the signatures to be some of the most compelling evidence.
Reached Friday by satellite, Matley said, "Since it is represented that some of them are definitely his, then we can conclude they are his signatures."
Matley said he's not surprised that questions about the documents have come up.
"I knew going in that this was dynamite one way or the other. And I knew that potentially it could do far more potential damage to me professionally than benefit me," he said. "But we seek the truth. That's what we do. You're supposed to put yourself out, to seek the truth and take what comes from it."
Robert Strong was an administrative officer for the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam years. He knew Jerry Killian, the man credited with writing the documents. And paper work, like these documents, was Strong's specialty. He is standing by his judgment that the documents are real.
"They are compatible with the way business was done at that time," Strong said. "They are compatible with the man I remember Jerry Killian being. I don't see anything in the documents that's discord
Read the first line of what you quoted:
Quote:
Document and handwriting examiner Marcel Matley analyzed the documents for CBS News. He says he believes they are real.
I'm sorry, DeSPURate, was that a yes or a no? Authentic or Forged?
Yonivore I gave you my honest answer. I have said it multiple times. And I can honestly say, I don't know. Its pretty easy to say that they could make it today, but that should be obvious. Any technology is expected to get better. All I know is that it looks like it would only take one machine to produce this in the early 70s. If it took more than 1 I would believe you that this was a fake, but as long as it could have been done with 1 machine. It isn't hard for me to imagine them being real. Documents such as these should exist. They are supposed to exist, at least the order to report for a medical exam.
Then why are you defending CBS so vehemently. If you're truly undecided, you'd at least be mulling over the possibility they are faked.
Particularly in light of the overwhelming number of REAL experts that are lining up again Dan Rather, his handful of experts, and you.
Seriously, a person who didn't know one way or the other would probably keep their mouth shut and let the two opposing sides argue it out...but, no, you -- he who is uncertain -- has an opinion and, it's an opinion that consistently comes down on the side of demonstrating the memos to be authentic.
And, about this one machine theory of your's.
They've yet to reproduce a reasonable facsimile with either a IBM Selectric Composer or an IBM Executive typewriter. Microsoft Word 2002 has come closer than any other method to reproducing the memos CBS is showing.
Also, how do you explain that every KNOWN document authored by Killian appears to have been produced with a standard typewriter?
Please, you're as bad as Dan Rather and you don't have any skin in the game.
My argument is this shit that they have been disproven, which I am absolutely certain they have not.
Whoa. He's babbling now.
You call a one sentence reply babbling?
I certainly think a vast preponderance (<< legal term for ya, counselor) of the information we now know about the memos combined with the closed-handedness of CBS, (not identifying the source of the documents, trying to sequester their experts, pointing to possible capable devices while refusing to, themselves, test or attempt reproduction with the Composer or Executive, deflecting the blame), points to an almost certainty the documents are fake.Quote:
"My argument is this shit that they have been disproven, which I am absolutely certain they have not."
His handwriting expert has already stated it is impossible to determine the provenance of the document and, even though he is satisfied the signature is Killian's cannot be certain the signature wasn't imaged and reproduced for the CBS Documents.
Fact of the matter is, DeSPURate (and you know this, being a counselor-in-training and all) the memos should have never been aired. CBS failed to do due diligence in securing authenticity. Period, end of story...they never should have aired. And, that being the case, CBS is under the gun to prove they are real -- not the other way around.
Put the shoe on the other foot for a second. I could (now knowing where CBS fucked up) reproduce some pretty damning documents about John Kerry, feed them to a sympathetic news source and demand the rest of the world disprove them.
Funny wording.Quote:
do due diligence
They shouldn't have been aired with the confidence that they were aboslutely legitimate. They should have been aired saying that they were still working to ascertain whether they are legitimate or not. But the experts they have spoken to so far have given them the nod on them.
No journalist should ever have to give up a source-
Sincerely Robert Novak.
I disagree. No reputable news program would have aired the documents unless they were 100% certain they were authentic. Period.
If these turn out to be fake, and they apparently have, it will be the end of Rather's career. If these turn out to have been sourced by the DNC or Kerry campaign, it will be the end of the Kerry campaign for the presidency. It's that simple and they know it. That's why Dan Rather is so vehemently defending his story while refusing to source the material.
CBS isn't supposed to be the National Inquirer or Weekly World News, is it?
Rushing the memos to air reeks of partisan political bias.
The problem again is that these memos should be real. Some of them anyways should exist. Their absense from the Bush documents lends credibility to finding what they found.
This is no different that the Swift Boat fiasco, only these documents are based on the truth and the Swift boat allegations were based on a boat full of lies. The Republican't decrying the Democrats underhanded techinque is so full of Irony you can almost see them want to bust out laughing when they are doing live interviews.Quote:
could (now knowing where CBS fucked up) reproduce some pretty damning documents about John Kerry, feed them to a sympathetic news source and demand the rest of the world disprove them.
So, if you can't find what you think should be in the record, you just make it up or, worse, accept some flimsy forgeries to stand in their stead?Quote:
"The problem again is that these memos should be real. Some of them anyways should exist. Their absense from the Bush documents lends credibility to finding what they found."
And, speaking of "missing" documents, why did the online media have to FOIA request the after action report from the Navy on John Kerry shooting a fleeing VC in the back? I thought Kerry had made all his records available?
President Bush has authorized the release of all his military records. It's not his fault the military can't keep up with records from 30 years ago. I'd be surprised if any files from Guard units are complete from 30 years ago.
Well, without getting into the veracity of either story, there's a huge difference, Nbadanallah.Quote:
"This is no different that the Swift Boat fiasco, only these documents are based on the truth and the Swift boat allegations were based on a boat full of lies. The Republican't decrying the Democrats underhanded techinque is so full of Irony you can almost see them want to bust out laughing when they are doing live interviews."
The forged documents are being presented by a national news organization as being authentic.
The Swiftboat Veterans for Truth have paid for all the exposure they've gotten. Katie Couric booked Kitty Kelley for three straight mornings this week. Did you know there hasn't been one Swiftee interviewed by the CBS, NBC, or ABC? 60 Minutes has run stories on Richard Clarke (and his book) on Joe Wilson (and his book) and now the memos...without even a passing mention of the Swifties. I even think this is the 2nd 60 minutes report on Bush's Guard service.
Lets put it this way if Bush had been honest about his records. nobody would have questioned him. The truth was there was something to hide, as my discussion with Travis revealed, Bush did not fulfill his obligations. He never met his service contract. Bush had something to hide and is still hiding something. I mean what is Bush's track record on his millitary record. I have released them all. No now I have released them all. Each one he reveals ties him into more troubling consequences. Rumours are born that way Yonivore.
:spam :spam :spam :spam
Give it up, it didn't stick the first time, the second time and
how many times. Bush got an Honorable Discharge, on time,
his Dad was a Congressman, he got some perks, so what!
Old News, nothing new.....Rather screwed up and you know
it and he knows it and the whole world knows it.:next3
Ironic you think getting a dishonorable discharge is the same as earning one.
When was he dishonest about his records?Quote:
"Lets put it this way if Bush had been honest about his records."
Oh, and could you please scan and post your employment records from 30 years ago, please? I'm sure they're right there in front of you...
Why is it you think Republicans have to answer every allegation that's tossed out and Demoncrats are to be exempt?
Gee let me think of a few....Hmm maybe the trillion times saying he released them all already.
He's released all he knows about. He's authorized the military to release all they have. That's not dishonest.
And, since then, the only thing that's surfaced are forgeries...
"And, since then, the only thing that's surfaced are forgeries..."
You know thats not true. And Bush should know and acknowledge that things are missing from the release like his flight logs. Its dishonest to say otherwise.
Who would have his flight logs?
And, what documents have been released, by the White House, since he authorized full disclosure.
...and on and on it goes.
What are the odds that some allegedly 30 year old documents which specifically address what has yet to have been proven about Bush appear from out of nowhere and match up with the default settings of MS Word as well as contain various inconsistencies in content and are authentic?
If you want to claw your way back to reality, reflect on that question for a minute.
This doesn't pass the smell test, which is why these documents are regarded as extremely likely forgeries by most. Well, except CBS and of course they don't have an incentive to avoid admitting that they've used forged documents to attack a presidential candidate, now do they?