How a few shots can make you win by 30.

Take a look at the score one more time, no matter how disgusted you are. 102-71. All that score tells you is that the Spurs suffered a huge defeat by an incredible margin of points for an NBA Finals game.


However, it may be what it doesn't tell you that matters the most. It doesn't tell you that early in the first half Ben Wallace hit 18 footers. It doesn't tell you that in that same first half Chauncy Billups hit several buzzer beating and downright miraculous shots. It doesn't tell you of a foul or 2 that wasn't called and not only took away points from the Spurs, but led to easy scores for the Pistons.

It doesn't tell you that Lindsey Hunter - previously the worst shooter in the history of the post shot clock NBA playoffs - outscored every player the Spurs put out on the court; including a 2 time Finals MVP. It doesn't tell you that his sidekick off the bench McDyess seemingly scored a point for every one of his knee surgeries.


Any basketball game - even ones decided by 30 points - have key individual turning points. A looseball, a charge call, or a buzzer beater are all momentum killers or sparks depending on which side of the ball you're on. They can kill a team or they can ignite a team.


Make no mistake about it, if the Spurs don't fly up from San Antonio in time for game 5, they will lose another game. But before declaring that the Spurs are back to Charmin status, take notice of the rising tide of unlikely events coming together for the Pistons. Officiating will even out over the course of a series. McDyess will come back down to earth, but probably not before Lindsey Hunter leaves a crater in the ground. And Ben Wallace will once again pain the rim with 18 foot jump shots.


Sometimes you hit a Memorial Day Miracle. Sometimes Rober Horry's game winning 3 rims out. Sometimes .4 happens. The road to the Larry Obrien trophy takes a lot of heart, there's no denying that. But it also takes a lot of luck and the Spurs are due.

every dog has his day. game was a 20 point loss before pop waved the massenburg.

OUSTANDING POST MANNY!!! picked me up out of the dumps a little bit

one thing is in our favor
hunter can not play that well again
and dare I say prince will not be as a big factor either


TP MUST SHOW UP SUNDAY AND PLAY THE MOST MINUTES HE HAS YET IN A GAME THIS SERIES

Teams will find ways to make fortunate shots against a Prevent defense.

The Spurs made them way too comfortable out there. They need to be more physical and create a lot more havoc. If that means gambling a bit more, so be it... at least give them something to think about when they're telegraphing passes to each other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

one thing is in our favor
hunter can not play that well again
and dare I say prince will not be as a big factor either


TP MUST SHOW UP SUNDAY AND PLAY THE MOST MINUTES HE HAS YET IN A GAME THIS SERIES

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you said the same crap after game 3

lets face it..the pistons have fiqured out the spurs defense and the pistons are shutting down the spurs guards.

funny how the pistons go home and suddenly figure things out. unfortunately for piston fan they have to win in sa. that means without their fans, their pyrotechnics and a loud black man on the mike.

they havent figured out jack, motherfucker.

tp showed up in game three
duncan and man did not

Let's wipe the Slate clean it now best of three. Look Forward lick the wounds and come out to battle. Bring the Spurs Spirit back and paly hard and smart ball I guess bring on the Inspiration they had when they played the SUNS>SCORE SCORE SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

their pyrotechnics and a loud black man on the mike.

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Admit it. Our loud black man announcer is better than your boring white boy announcer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WayDowntownBang

Admit it. Our loud black man announcer is better than your boring white boy announcer.

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um, ok. re-read what you just typed and think about what has become of your life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WayDowntownBang

Admit it. Our loud black man announcer is better than your boring white boy announcer.

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Our guy is boring as all hell, but your guy is ob b b b b b noxious. Only in Detroit would stuttering be considerd awesome.

Quote:

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Admit it. Our loud black man announcer is better than your boring white boy announcer.

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You say that like its an accomplishment. :)

your announcer sucks. he can't even properly pronounce most words and names.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

um, ok. re-read what you just typed and think about what has become of your life.

---

ouch, good one

Its stupid to bring race into any of this and talk about announcers and meaningless shit like that. I'm more concerned with the Spurs transition defense and their passing and ballhandling.

Great post, Manny, btw!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

funny how the pistons go home and suddenly figure things out. unfortunately for piston fan they have to win in sa. that means without their fans, their pyrotechnics and a loud black man on the mike.

they havent figured out jack, motherfucker.

---

whatever makes you feel better at night

fact is the spurs have no mental toughness and if they lose again in game 5..the pistons will win the title. they have something the spurs don't

GUTS

True to a certain extent.

But, that's basketball. Every game has its share of lucky bounces, great performance from unexpected players, unfavorable officiating. But, some would say you make your own luck. Your effort and energy factor in fortunate circumstances.

Would you say the same thing for the Pistons after game 2? Were there tough foul calls on Rip and Tayshaun in the first half that caused the ball to bounce in the Spurs' favor? The no-goaltending call on Tayshaun's lay up? A seemingly easy steal that landed in the hands of Robert Horry for an easy lay-up.

Of course, you shouldn't expect Ben Wallace to make three jumpshots in a game or for Lindsey Hunter to get hot and carry the offensive load for an entire quarter or a no call foul on an "easy" hack on Tim Duncan's arm. But, it happens. The luck was not with the Pistons in games 1 and 2. And, vice versa for the Spurs in the next two games. The Pistons definitely had a favorable whistle the last two games.

But, that's part of the game. And, in a 31 point pasting, the best realization you could have as a Spurs fans is that your team was simply outplayed. Knowing that your team is similarly able to blowout the Pistons and the fact you have two games at home should keep you positive.

Fans from both sides should just take it game by game, quarter by quarter, possession by possession.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Game

whatever makes you feel better at night

fact is the spurs have no mental toughness and if they lose again in game 5..the pistons will win the title. they have something the spurs don't

GUTS

---

and the pistons had mental toughness when they followed up a 15 point loss with a 21 point one? eh?

I agree that absolutely everthing came together for the Pistons last night.
It happens to all teams ( Spurs loss @POR ).

I disagree about the luck, since nobody can dispute the old saw:

"The harder I work, the luckier I get"

... and the Spurs "luck" totally depends on how hard they work, fuelled by courage in the face of extreme adversity, and desire.

( It's wonderful that Spurs will still pick up there multi-$100K paychecks for the month of June. )

Games3 and 4 2005 vs Psitons are eerily just like Games3,4,5,6 of 2004 vs Lakers. Defend Tim hard, and shut down the paint. GAMEOVER.

I was worried all season that whatever TF happend last May had not been corrected (one eg.: Spurs loss @MIA by losing both rebounds, paint, and Tim shutdown).

You can bet the Pistons will keep defending in Games5 and 6 just like they did in Game3 and 4. Any team executing the same tactics, and not all can, would get the same results.

I bet the Spurs, esp Pop and Tim, like May 04, will have no answer. Tim, esp, just has to stop the shitty, weak play.

Mr Spurs Franchise has to find a way.

Pop just has to abandon the 4-down, because the 4 just stand there watching Tim getting beat to shit.

Go Spurs Go

Quote:

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

and the pistons had mental toughness when they followed up a 15 point loss with a 21 point one? eh?

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they had it when they bounced back to win by 17 and 31..thats shows heart and toughness

pistons are at their best in these kind of situations..spurs are not

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JamStone

True to a certain extent.

But, that's basketball. Every game has its share of lucky bounces, great performance from unexpected players, unfavorable officiating. But, some would say you make your own luck. Your effort and energy factor in fortunate circumstances.

Would you say the same thing for the Pistons after game 2? Were there tough foul calls on Rip and Tayshaun in the first half that caused the ball to bounce in the Spurs' favor? The no-goaltending call on Tayshaun's lay up? A seemingly easy steal that landed in the hands of Robert Horry for an easy lay-up.

Of course, you shouldn't expect Ben Wallace to make three jumpshots in a game or for Lindsey Hunter to get hot and carry the offensive load for an entire quarter or a no call foul on an "easy" hack on Tim Duncan's arm. But, it happens. The luck was not with the Pistons in games 1 and 2. And, vice versa for the Spurs in the next two games. The Pistons definitely had a favorable whistle the last two games.

But, that's part of the game. And, in a 31 point pasting, the best realization you could have as a Spurs fans is that your team was simply outplayed. Knowing that your team is similarly able to blowout the Pistons and the fact you have two games at home should keep you positive.

Fans from both sides should just take it game by game, quarter by quarter, possession by possession.

---

The Spurs have definetly had their share of bounces in the first 2 games. There's no deneying that. Detroit also missed a lot of interior shots, and while the Spurs have a great defense that wasn't all them.

The fact is that the Spurs D is not bad enough to allow Detroit over 90 points - or 100 for that matter - on a consistent basis. And Detroits D isn't good enough to stop the Spurs from getting to 80 on a consistent basis.

There's a median somewhere in there, and it's probably going to turn game 5 into the best game of the series.

the larger point is that homecourt is the difference in this series. for those of you who were spazzing out about the spurs getting homecourt during the regular season, congrats.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by The_Game

they had it when they bounced back to win by 17 and 31..thats shows heart and toughness

pistons are at their best in these kind of situations..spurs are not

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where did the pistons win those games? thank you.

Manny, you'd make a heck of a spin doctor on a presidential campaign! Contact a party leader of your choice and you're on your way to 2008. :lol


I know you're trying to make us feel better, but freaky, lucky stuff happens when you hustle. The Spurs just flat out didn't play with any hustle, aggresiveness, or urgency. That's what lost them the game.

I know you're not blaming the loss on freaky stuff, just the margin of loss. But I think all that freaky stuff happens as a result of a team playing 48 minutes of urgent basketball, which builds confidence, which results in every player doing things he usually doesn't.

Bottom line, it's a result of the both teams' attitudes during the game. If the Spurs come out with the same crappy, non-hustling team effort, then the same outcome will result, with new freaky, lucky shots and bounces.

Great post Manny! However, the spurs and their softness has given the detroit scrubs confidence.

spurs blow out pistons in sa, everyone on spurs wagon
pistons blow out spurs in detroit, everyone on pistons wagon

thats the bottomline.

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

spurs blow out pistons in sa, everyone on spurs wagon
pistons blow out spurs in detroit, everyone on pistons wagon

thats the bottomline.

---

That would seem to be the case right now. It'll be interesting to see what the attitude will be after game 5, depending on who wins AND the margin of error.

I knew when Rasheed made that buzzer beater 3 pointer at the end of the 1st quarter that this would not be our night. Then Ben Wallace proceeded to hit fade away 19 footers and Chauncy hit fadeaway baseline 19 footers. And this was with solid defense. Every time those shots went in, the Spurs would just become more and more demoralized, only accentuated by their pathetic execution on offense. Detroit deserves this win no doubt. They simply outhustled and outplayed us. But those half dozen buzzer beaters were instrumental in turning the tide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Take a look at the score one more time, no matter how disgusted you are. 102-71. All that score tells you is that the Spurs suffered a huge defeat by an incredible margin of points for an NBA Finals game.


However, it may be what it doesn't tell you that matters the most. It doesn't tell you that early in the first half Ben Wallace hit 18 footers. It doesn't tell you that in that same first half Chauncy Billups hit several buzzer beating and downright miraculous shots. It doesn't tell you of a foul or 2 that wasn't called and not only took away points from the Spurs, but led to easy scores for the Pistons.

It doesn't tell you that Lindsey Hunter - previously the worst shooter in the history of the post shot clock NBA playoffs - outscored every player the Spurs put out on the court; including a 2 time Finals MVP. It doesn't tell you that his sidekick off the bench McDyess seemingly scored a point for every one of his knee surgeries.


Any basketball game - even ones decided by 30 points - have key individual turning points. A looseball, a charge call, or a buzzer beater are all momentum killers or sparks depending on which side of the ball you're on. They can kill a team or they can ignite a team.


Make no mistake about it, if the Spurs don't fly up from San Antonio in time for game 5, they will lose another game. But before declaring that the Spurs are back to Charmin status, take notice of the rising tide of unlikely events coming together for the Pistons. Officiating will even out over the course of a series. McDyess will come back down to earth, but probably not before Lindsey Hunter leaves a crater in the ground. And Ben Wallace will once again pain the rim with 18 foot jump shots.


Sometimes you hit a Memorial Day Miracle. Sometimes Rober Horry's game winning 3 rims out. Sometimes .4 happens. The road to the Larry Obrien trophy takes a lot of heart, there's no denying that. But it also takes a lot of luck and the Spurs are due.

---

Very good post. The small details in big picture can really say alot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Take a look at the score one more time, no matter how disgusted you are. 102-71. All that score tells you is that the Spurs suffered a huge defeat by an incredible margin of points for an NBA Finals game.


However, it may be what it doesn't tell you that matters the most. It doesn't tell you that early in the first half Ben Wallace hit 18 footers. It doesn't tell you that in that same first half Chauncy Billups hit several buzzer beating and downright miraculous shots. It doesn't tell you of a foul or 2 that wasn't called and not only took away points from the Spurs, but led to easy scores for the Pistons.

It doesn't tell you that Lindsey Hunter - previously the worst shooter in the history of the post shot clock NBA playoffs - outscored every player the Spurs put out on the court; including a 2 time Finals MVP. It doesn't tell you that his sidekick off the bench McDyess seemingly scored a point for every one of his knee surgeries.


Any basketball game - even ones decided by 30 points - have key individual turning points. A looseball, a charge call, or a buzzer beater are all momentum killers or sparks depending on which side of the ball you're on. They can kill a team or they can ignite a team.


Make no mistake about it, if the Spurs don't fly up from San Antonio in time for game 5, they will lose another game. But before declaring that the Spurs are back to Charmin status, take notice of the rising tide of unlikely events coming together for the Pistons. Officiating will even out over the course of a series. McDyess will come back down to earth, but probably not before Lindsey Hunter leaves a crater in the ground. And Ben Wallace will once again pain the rim with 18 foot jump shots.


Sometimes you hit a Memorial Day Miracle. Sometimes Rober Horry's game winning 3 rims out. Sometimes .4 happens. The road to the Larry Obrien trophy takes a lot of heart, there's no denying that. But it also takes a lot of luck and the Spurs are due.

---

Exactly, wont happen again.
It was raining four leaf clovers in D-town last night.

The final score really doesn't mean crap. Spurs gave up waaaay too early in the 3d quarter. might as well shouldn't have come out of the dressing room after halftime.

What makes game 5 interesting to me is how Detroit will come out. In their playoff run this year, they've been tremendously Jekyll and Hyde. One or two games they'll have you thinking that last year's team is back. Then they'll play a game or two that leave you thinking you're watching guys who've never played together before.

I'm not surprised that the Spurs have lost two. I was expecting 7 games. I am surprised that the Spurs followed a terrible effort with an even more pathetic effort. I expected the losses, but I never thought the Spurs would lose Finals games with such a horrible lack of effort.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by totalspurshomer

What makes game 5 interesting to me is how Detroit will come out. In their playoff run this year, they've been tremendously Jekyll and Hyde. One or two games they'll have you thinking that last year's team is back. Then they'll play a game or two that leave you thinking you're watching guys who've never played together before.

I'm not surprised that the Spurs have lost two. I was expecting 7 games. I am surprised that the Spurs followed a terrible effort with an even more pathetic effort. I expected the losses, but I never thought the Spurs would lose Finals games with such a horrible lack of effort.

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Agreed. I had this going 7 games but I thought in our losses, we would at least be competitive.

The spurs came in favored and on their home court. They deserve all the respect they get for taking care of business and living up to their hype by soundly thrashing the pistons twice.

That being said, they didn't have to face any adversity in those wins. Now that they've been counter-punched and sent to the corner with a bloody nose and a cut over their eye we'll see if they are mentally tough. The pistons showed what they were made of, picking themselves up off the mat, the pressure is all on san antonio now.

If the spurs get run out of the gym again in game five the word "soft" will come up every time the spurs are mentioned and nobody will talk about this series without hearing echoes of the 04 lakers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

funny how the pistons go home and suddenly figure things out. unfortunately for piston fan they have to win in sa. that means without their fans, their pyrotechnics and a loud black man on the mike.

.

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Hey Mr Grand Wizard -

What does the fact he is black have to do with anything?


A.O.D.

Well put, Manny.

In the end, it only counts as one loss in the books. Despite all the turnovers, bricked shots, botched passes, bad quarters, milkbox players, etc....the score is still only 2-2.

Anyone who doesn't have enough faith in this Spurs team to win a 3-game series, with HCA, doesn't deserve to be on the fucking bandwagon.

LOL, why didn't you just say "If the Pistons didn't rebound and make shots then they wouldn't have won."

You can only get lucky so many times. Last night the only lucky shot I remember is the Billups up and under when he was looking for a foul and got none.

You guys probably aren't open-minded enough to believe this, but I'll tell you anyway: Ben Wallace is as good a jumpshooter as Timmy is. Its just that the offense isn't centered around him, so he isn't in a position to take the shot very often. If you watch him during shootarounds and practices he drains threes with ease. Plus, he naturally fades on his jumpshot, so they weren't as unbelievable shots as you may think.

That being said; Sunday should be our first competitive game of the series. Timmy won't allow the Spurs to get blown out again, but the Pistons should still be in must win mode. I think it'll be a great game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SoundTheToll

LOL, why didn't you just say "If the Pistons didn't rebound and make shots then they wouldn't have won."

You can only get lucky so many times. Last night the only lucky shot I remember is the Billups up and under when he was looking for a foul and got none.

You guys probably aren't open-minded enough to believe this, but I'll tell you anyway: Ben Wallace is as good a jumpshooter as Timmy is. Its just that the offense isn't centered around him, so he isn't in a position to take the shot very often. If you watch him during shootarounds and practices he drains threes with ease. Plus, he naturally fades on his jumpshot, so they weren't as unbelievable shots as you may think.

That being said; Sunday should be our first competitive game of the series. Timmy won't allow the Spurs to get blown out again, but the Pistons should still be in must win mode. I think it'll be a great game.

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I'm sorry I stopped listening when you said Ben was as good a shooter as Tim. Come again?

Whats next? Lindsey Hunter wasn't really the worst playoff shooter ever?

Quote:

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Ben Wallace is as good a jumpshooter as Timmy is.

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That would certainly be an enlightening statement, if it were true.

2004-2005 Season:
Ben Wallace
Jump Shot Attempts: 29%
Effective FG%: .233

Tim Duncan
Jump Shot Attempts: 58%
Effective FG%: .414

2005 Playoffs:
Ben Wallace
Jump Shot Attempts: 26%
Effective FG%: .289

Tim Duncan
Jump Shot Attempts: 54%
Effective FG%: .318

http://www.82games.com

Quote:

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Fans from both sides should just take it game by game, quarter by quarter, possession by possession.

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I would agree with this.

A lot of balls bounced the Pistons' way in Game 4. The reason the margin was 31 was because the Spurs responded by hanging their heads and quitting.

If a team continues to fight hard even when the outcome is decided, good things can happen at the end of a game that can roll over to the next one.

What happened last night was that the Spurs opened by playing like absolute crap, some calls were missed, the Pistons hit some tough shots, and the Spurs checked out of the game. At 34-17 in the second, garbage time had begun. The Spurs already had stopped fighting.

These guys have to show some pride in themselves. Detroit is taking away their manhood right now. It seems like the Spurs are just bewildered at the concept of the defending NBA champions being this good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by myhc

Agreed. I had this going 7 games but I thought in our losses, we would at least be competitive.

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I'm sure Detroit fans and followers were saying the same thing after games 1 and 2.

Is it really homecourt or have the Pistons just adjusted after game 2 and kicked it into another gear while the Spurs didn't? They are shutting down the Spurs defensively and getting good looks offensively with good spacing and crisp passing...This is a damn good Pistons team and I am having a hard time giving home court all the credit...I can't even remember when this Spurs team ever looked that bad two games in a row...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by violentkitten

where did the pistons win those games? thank you.

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I hear a lot of discussion about home court advantage, especially from this chick. Here's a news flash for ya. You can't overcome a 31 point lead in any arena, meaning if the Spurs play like they did last night, it won't matter if they're in Timbucktoo. Go home and re-think your life..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HULKAROCK

I hear a lot of discussion about home court advantage, especially from this chick. Here's a news flash for ya. You can't overcome a 31 point lead in any arena, meaning if the Spurs play like they did last night, it won't matter if they're in Timbucktoo. Go home and re-think your life..

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Why do you think u got the 31 point lead in the first place?? :idiot

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

Why do you think u got the 31 point lead in the first place??

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Defense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

Why do you think u got the 31 point lead in the first place?? :idiot

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All because of the fans? I was at the game. You don't see any points under my last name. I didn't make any shots. Yeah, it helps. Duh. But, the Spurs were SMOKED!!! The Pistons are in sinc. All cyliders are running. I know that has a lot to do with it so :stfu unless you have something worth reading.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HULKAROCK

All because of the fans? I was at the game. You don't see any points under my last name. I didn't make any shots. Yeah, it helps. Duh. But, the Spurs were SMOKED!!! The Pistons are in sinc. All cyliders are running. I know that has a lot to do with it so :stfu unless you have something worth reading.

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I don't know wtf sinc is, but the Pistons did look in sync last night. If you think the Spurs are the team that got beat last night, thats fine. But there's a reason they won the West and there's also a reason they kicked Detroits ass in the first 2 games.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

there's also a reason they kicked Detroits ass in the first 2 games.

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Easy to spot that reason. He's about 6'7, 240 and has a huge afro. I can understand your confusion because he didn't make the trip to SA for games 1 & 2. Someone showed up wearing his jersey but it wasn't him. Absent Ben Wallace the pistons are a lost and very beatable team.

He showed up at the palace and all indications are he'll be around for the duration of the series. The spurs have no answer for his rebounds, steals, disruptive defense and the energy & inspiration he brings to his teammates.

SA is in deep trouble and if you aren't fearing the fro already, you should be.


:fro

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geerussell

Easy to spot that reason. He's about 6'7, 240 and has a huge afro. I can understand your confusion because he didn't make the trip to SA for games 1 & 2. Someone showed up wearing his jersey but it wasn't him. Absent Ben Wallace the pistons are a lost and very beatable team.

He showed up at the palace and all indications are he'll be around for the duration of the series. The spurs have no answer for his rebounds, steals, disruptive defense and the energy & inspiration he brings to his teammates.

SA is in deep trouble and if you aren't fearing the fro already, you should be.


:fro

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Your right, I missed the record setting pace the Pistons went on this year. Must be because they don't broadcast many Piston games this year. But I do know that if it hadn't been for a Dwayne Wade injury, that fro would be parked infront of a plasma TV watching it form home.

But you know, Superman stayed behind on the first trip down here, maybe he'll do the same? Or maybe there's a reason that Duncan has a couple of MVPs and a couple of rings and maybe that reason will come out in game 5.

But I digress, a couple of impressive wins and if Lindsey Hunter is still possesed by Jordan in the next game, you'll probably win. A whole hell of a lot that has to do with Wallace though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Your right, I missed the record setting pace the Pistons went on this year. Must be because they don't broadcast many Piston games this year. But I do know that if it hadn't been for a Dwayne Wade injury, that fro would be parked infront of a plasma TV watching it form home.

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We can play the what-if game all day and it still won't matter. I know that if the spurs hadn't choked last year they might be playing for a threepeat now. See how easy that is?

Quote:

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But you know, Superman stayed behind on the first trip down here, maybe he'll do the same? Or maybe there's a reason that Duncan has a couple of MVPs and a couple of rings and maybe that reason will come out in game 5.

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Maybe. The reason was conspicuously absent in game 3. There was no shortage of people here declaring he always bounces back for a good game after a bad one but "the reason" didn't come out in game 4 either. The "reason" will be down to "wait til next year" pretty soon.

Quote:

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But I digress, a couple of impressive wins and if Lindsey Hunter is still possesed by Jordan in the next game, you'll probably win. A whole hell of a lot that has to do with Wallace though.

---

Hunter was his usual defense-only self in game 3. If he reverts back to that form for game 5 then maybe the blowout will only be half as bad. Something for you to look forward to, I suppose. Either way, his points aren't the difference in the piston wins.

Ben Wallace has a whole hell of a lot to do with that.

First off, even as a Piston fan myself, I was COMPLETELY SHOCKED to read a Piston fan write that Ben Wallace can shoot a jumpshot as good as Tim Duncan!!! WHAT?!?!?! Let's not get all crazy here, Piston fanatics. Let me clarify what I think he/she meant by saying that. Ben Wallace actually has proper form on his jumpshot, nice rotation, good follow through. BUT, that doesn't mean he's a good jumpshooter. In games, he generally bricks those attempts. When he's confident and focused like last night, he is however capable of hitting those shots from time to time. But, I'd NEVER say he's as good a jumpshooting big man as Tim Duncan.


MannyIsGod,

Your posts are sometimes insightful, yet there are little things that just make you seem nonsensical at times. Why would you even mention Dwyane Wade's injury in the Detroit-Miami series?? Why discredit the Pistons like that when they just beat your team twice by a 48 point margin?? You don't here too many people talk about Rashard Lewis, Vladimir Radmonovic, and Ray Allen being injured in the Seattle-San Antonio series, do you??? Their three leading scorers ... Or Joe Johnson not playing in the first few Phoenix losses to the Spurs. But, you as a Spurs fan want to bring up Dwyane Wade's injury. That's too bad ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Our guy is boring as all hell, but your guy is ob b b b b b noxious. Only in Detroit would stuttering be considerd awesome.

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Yeah....he ripped off from George Thorougood no less.....
B b b b bbbbaaad To The Bone.

Plus he can't even say Beno's and Rasho's name even remotely correctly.

Knew right away it wasn't going to be our night......Manu gets called for that Ticky-tack call on the jump ball.....and Timmy gets smacked in the elbow and they said it was all ball....hell any higher on the smack he would have had a shiner.......

I don't usually hark on the refs but it seemed to me that the Pistons got away with murder at the most inopportune times.....while if we just sneezed on them they would have considered it a flagrant or something....I am not saying we need startknocking people down....it should be a foul.....it is a rule.....they are allowing the Pistons to play like an Arena Football team, not a basketball team. Knocking people down just to prove a point is not basketball.....it is about position and skill....not just brute strength.

All ask is it be called consistently on both teams for the same fouls.

Also...is it just me or does it look like Billups uses his off arm all the time when dribbling up court against a defender?

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Originally Posted by cherylsteele

I don't usually hark on the refs but it seemed to me that the Pistons got away with murder at the most inopportune times.....while if we just sneezed on them they would have considered it a flagrant or something.

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Just curious... what did you think of the refereeing in games 1 and 2?

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Originally Posted by geerussell

Just curious... what did you think of the refereeing in games 1 and 2?

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Same kinda thing....the total fouls called were close but the refs seemed to change their minds often on what was a foul or wasn't a foul.

All I ask is for CONSISTENCY.....is that too much to ask from refs who have been doing this as a full time job for 10-20 yrs or more?

The other problem we had is that Ben hit shots from 10-15 that he NEVER takes or even makes for that matter.....nothing went right.....I guess the only thing I see good out of it was that no one seemed to get hurt.

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Originally Posted by JamStone

MannyIsGod,

Your posts are sometimes insightful, yet there are little things that just make you seem nonsensical at times. Why would you even mention Dwyane Wade's injury in the Detroit-Miami series?? Why discredit the Pistons like that when they just beat your team twice by a 48 point margin?? You don't here too many people talk about Rashard Lewis, Vladimir Radmonovic, and Ray Allen being injured in the Seattle-San Antonio series, do you??? Their three leading scorers ... Or Joe Johnson not playing in the first few Phoenix losses to the Spurs. But, you as a Spurs fan want to bring up Dwyane Wade's injury. That's too bad ...

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The point was simply to illustrate that while some people here are proclaiming Ben Wallace to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, it took an injury to a player that was torching the team to get you into the Finals. But as I stated in the first post of this thread, there needs to be an amount of luck in any run for a title and that includes the Spurs run.

I think Ben Wallace is a hell of a player. But to say that he's the entire reason this has turned around is simply ignoring that everything has gone well for the Pistons over past 2 games. Is that any different from everything going well for the Spurs in the first 2 games? Probably not.

Ben has played much better in the 2 games in Detroit, but the bench production and the ability to hit clutch shots when the Spurs start a run is what has proppelled the Pistons. It's very difficult to comeback on a team when they simply can't be stopped.

Last night in the 3rd quater the Spurs played probably their best ball of the game, and it was utterly and completely negated by the play of Lindsey Hunter. He saved the game for you by hitting shot after shot after shot.

But I must warn Detroit fans before they get too cocky. Against Seattle, Luke Ridnour did the exact same thing, and Seattle did the exact same thing Detroit has done. We all know how that series ended.

This series is far from over, and it's foolish for a fan of either team to feel that way.

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Originally Posted by cherylsteele

....I don't usually hark on the refs but it seemed to me that the Pistons got away with murder at the most inopportune times.....while if we just sneezed on them they would have considered it a flagrant or something....I am not saying we need startknocking people down....it should be a foul.....it is a rule.....they are allowing the Pistons to play like an Arena Football team, not a basketball team. Knocking people down just to prove a point is not basketball.....it is about position and skill....not just brute strength.

All ask is it be called consistently on both teams for the same fouls.

Also...is it just me or does it look like Billups uses his off arm all the time when dribbling up court against a defender?

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You see, right there is the difference between the Western Conference and the East.

The West, in my opinion, has always been soft. Half the teams that made the West playoffs dont even feign interest in defense.

Then when you see a physical, in your face opponent, you can only discredit their style.

Sorry Spurs fans, but all of your opponents up until this point have been very one dimensional. Denver?! Please. Seattle?! Oh NOES! All I have to do is defend one player and guard the perimeter! Fake-friggin-Phoenix?! That team was due for exposure. Phoenix would have lost to a broken, injured Indiana in 5 too.

Now...the Spurs are an awesome team. Neither team has won ANYTHING yet. But I will not stand idly by watching you rip the 'Stones because you dont like their physical play. The Stones approach every series like a fight, and if the opponent doesnt enter with the same mentality, then they will get beat up. Period.

Spurs are still in control right now. No one has won anything yet. Remember that.

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Originally Posted by ManyIsGod

But I must warn Detroit fans before they get too cocky. Against Seattle, Luke Ridnour did the exact same thing, and Seattle did the exact same thing Detroit has done. We all know how that series ended.

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Dont even compare the Stones to the friggin weak-ass Sonics. What have the Sonics won? Thats right...nothing.

For the record, I love the way the Pistons play and the fact that they employ a team concept. I just think - or maybe hope - the Spurs are better at that.

Well, can we all agree that the ref's have a bigger influence on these games then they should have?

As long as the ref's allow our Pistons to play physical, bruising basketball, we will win, and there is nothing the Spurs can do about it.

If the ref's go back to calling ticky tack fouls, then that evens the playing field and allows the Spurs back into the series.

No Blood, No foul!

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Well, can we all agree that the ref's have a bigger influence on these games then they should have?

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I would.

I have no problem with physical play but its the definition of physical play that people will debate. Like Billups foul on Parker...I thought it was a good hard foul. He was going for the ball and had no intent of injury. Karl Malone's idea of "physical play" was leading with his knees and hacking so hard on people he broke thumbs. I am not comparing Ben Wallace to Karl Malone but some will. Of those 5 steals in the 1Q...I thought three were legit, one I didn't see the replay on and one (the one that caused Pop to get the tech) was a serious foul and the replay proved me right. But still....that was one of four and hey, if they are not going to call it, keep doing it. Just like the moving screens the Spurs were accused of in games 1 and 2. I agree also that it should not be ticky tack. All I ask is for consistency.

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Originally Posted by DarkReign

You see, right there is the difference between the Western Conference and the East.

The West, in my opinion, has always been soft. Half the teams that made the West playoffs dont even feign interest in defense.

Then when you see a physical, in your face opponent, you can only discredit their style.



.

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But that isn't what basketball was meant to be.....you don't change the basic nature of the game just to win.....like I said, this supposed to be basketball. not rugby, or lacrosse...that is why there are rules....of course the refs won't see everything....but consistency is all I ask....sometimes it seems they are making up rules as they go.

The west has always been soft? hmm.....a 3-peat by the Lakers was soft.....that is just a stupid statment you make and it really confirms the point I am making.

Physical is one thing....but one can go too far.

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

Teams will find ways to make fortunate shots against a Prevent defense.

The Spurs made them way too comfortable out there. They need to be more physical and create a lot more havoc. If that means gambling a bit more, so be it... at least give them something to think about when they're telegraphing passes to each other.

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I agree with the concept, but not your solution. Gambling isn't going to get them anywhere. They need to take a few HARD fouls early, and engage the refs both ways with a tightly called game. Have Nazr chop down on someone in the lane. Shit, he always gets two fouls called in Detroit in the first 3 minutes anyway. Might as well have them accomplish something.

Want to see Tim get off? Pray for a tightly called game.

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As long as the ref's allow our Pistons to play physical, bruising basketball, we will win, and there is nothing the Spurs can do about it.

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"as long as the refs allow it"....very telling statement.....this implies that the Pistons are doing something that shouldn't be happening.

If they actually called fairly/consistantly, it may have been more competetive.

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Well, can we all agree that the ref's have a bigger influence on these games then they should have?

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That is the biggest problem....they are the bigger influence and not the players...which is a travesty....and the biggest part is the consistancy of the interpretatioon of the rules of the game.


All also hate it when I hear that the playoffs are called differently........many times it seems to be correct. I understand each ref has their own POV of the rules and such....but all too often the desparity between refs is way too much.

You guys are funny. You probably don't know because you don't watch many Pistons games, but even though Ben is not known for his offensive ability he does have the occasional game where he can score at will. He had one game in the playoffs where he scored 23 and another where he scored 19.

I agree Lindsay may not have another game like that but to say that Ben can't is wrong.

He surely can. As far as Diceman not having another good game that would be a foolish statement as well. That's like saying Tim Duncan can't have two bad games back to back. Or Ginobli having two bad games back to back. While the fans keep making these predictions the Pistons will continue to prove them wrong.

Bottom line is i don't think the Spurs can hang with the agressive/physical nature of the Pistons game. I predict another route in game 5(for the Pistons of course) and the Pistons winning a game 7 in San Antonio

Then maybe just maybe Detroit will finally earn some respect.

bump

They were fucking DUE.