Paul: We dont have a revenue problem, we have spending problem

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

LOL this is like saying my family's revenue problem is due to us buying the Ferrari last year. Who the fuck told you to buy a Ferrari?

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

stick to the topic. Do we have a revenue issue or spending or both?

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BTW, that silly statement that people say "US cannot go bankrupt"

Depends of what definition of bankrupt you mean. Do you mean bankrupt like failing to pay your bill or bankrupt like you will never be able to pay off your debts. Obviously we know US can just keep printing IOUs to their heart's content. SO they would never FAIL to pay a bill, but will they ever pay off their debt? Not if we keep this course.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

If the Clinton administration actually spend less money than revenues received, because the debt increased, he gave the debt to Bush.

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No. This was already thoroughly explained in the other thread and I'm not going to repeat myself. I'm simply going to point out you were wrong then, and you still wrong now. If you want to know why and revisit the conversation, go re-read that thread.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

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http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...acepalm_lg.jpg

I sat down and spent a lot of time thinking about this the other day...someone pointed out that it's the healthcare spending thats going up, and they're right. In years past, we didn't have all these life extending technologies and things. Rather than spend millions treating someone for cancer or an organ transplant, they just died. Now days we are spending more and more money keeping people alive longer and longer. I don't think it's something that can easily be solved without throwing morals out the window and just saying fuck the sick and the old. They are what's driving up healthcare costs, but you can't just throw people under the bus at the same time. Tough dilemma, honestly. I think it would help if we as a country became a lot healthier. It's the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and obese that are fucking us.

ElNono...

Argue all you want, but you are accepting the use of "off budget" numbers to balance a "budget."

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

I sat down and spent a lot of time thinking about this the other day...someone pointed out that it's the healthcare spending thats going up, and they're right. In years past, we didn't have all these life extending technologies and things. Rather than spend millions treating someone for cancer or an organ transplant, they just died. Now days we are spending more and more money keeping people alive longer and longer. I don't think it's something that can easily be solved without throwing morals out the window and just saying fuck the sick and the old. They are what's driving up healthcare costs, but you can't just throw people under the bus at the same time. Tough dilemma, honestly. I think it would help if we as a country became a lot healthier. It's the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and obese that are fucking us.

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lots of people have catastrophic health issues in the final years of life that have little to do with lifestyle and everything to do with being old and in the hospital

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

lots of people have catastrophic health issues in the final years of life that have little to do with lifestyle and everything to do with being old and in the hospital

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and in years past, they just died. now days, we have more expensive and creative ways of prolonging the inevitable.

also, just as many people also have catastrophic health issues because of the choices they made for 70 years.

sure. didn't dispute that, just that poor health is elective.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

lots of people have catastrophic health issues in the final years of life that have little to do with lifestyle and everything to do with being old and in the hospital

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yup. The baby boomers are getting old, and them getting their 401ks wiped out does not help.

we're all gettin old

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

BTW, that silly statement that people say "US cannot go bankrupt"

Depends of what definition of bankrupt you mean. Do you mean bankrupt like failing to pay your bill or bankrupt like you will never be able to pay off your debts. Obviously we know US can just keep printing IOUs to their heart's content. SO they would never FAIL to pay a bill, but will they ever pay off their debt? Not if we keep this course.

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The US debt is in US Dollars. All of it.

What we owe China? Sitting in the Fed in US Dollars.
What we owe France? Sitting in the Fed in US Dollars.

They can't pull that money out other than spending it in US goods or services (which are paid in US dollars).


lol Ferraris

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

sure. didn't dispute that, just that poor health is elective.

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old people are going to have health problems. i think we all understand that. but there are also a lot of people who are unhealthy because of lifestyle choices. my neighbor just passed away after a long bout with heart attacks and heart trouble. he was only in his 60s, and was a smoker all his life. he probably cost the state millions, and it was because he wouldn't stop smoking and eating unhealthy.

his heart troubles started in his early 40's btw.

:lol sitting in the Fed

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

I sat down and spent a lot of time thinking about this the other day...someone pointed out that it's the healthcare spending thats going up, and they're right. In years past, we didn't have all these life extending technologies and things. Rather than spend millions treating someone for cancer or an organ transplant, they just died. Now days we are spending more and more money keeping people alive longer and longer. I don't think it's something that can easily be solved without throwing morals out the window and just saying fuck the sick and the old. They are what's driving up healthcare costs, but you can't just throw people under the bus at the same time. Tough dilemma, honestly. I think it would help if we as a country became a lot healthier. It's the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and obese that are fucking us.

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I agree this needs to be addressed. Unfortunately, there's a lot of middle men, even for basic care, that shouldn't be there, IMO. I can understand the high cost of catastrophic health issues. But even getting an Xray and a fracture treated can run you into the thousands of dollars. It's crazy, and it never costs that much anywhere else in the world.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

I sat down and spent a lot of time thinking about this the other day...someone pointed out that it's the healthcare spending thats going up, and they're right. In years past, we didn't have all these life extending technologies and things. Rather than spend millions treating someone for cancer or an organ transplant, they just died. Now days we are spending more and more money keeping people alive longer and longer. I don't think it's something that can easily be solved without throwing morals out the window and just saying fuck the sick and the old. They are what's driving up healthcare costs, but you can't just throw people under the bus at the same time. Tough dilemma, honestly. I think it would help if we as a country became a lot healthier. It's the smokers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and obese that are fucking us.

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It's the healthy fuckers that just won't die that are the REAL problem. I mean who wants to pass on all the fun stuff in life just so they can outlive their sinful friends and their money and just sit there with their wrinkly old man smelling bodies in their rocking chairs doing nothing?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Argue all you want

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I'm not arguing.

if this country were to become more health conscious, i still think it would help a lot. we are a morbidly obese, unhealthy country. cancer rates are skyrocketing.

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

:lol sitting in the Fed

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Where do you think it is?

/facepalm

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

It's the healthy fuckers that just won't die that are the REAL problem. I mean who wants to pass on all the fun stuff in life just so they can outlive their sinful friends and their money and just sit there with their wrinkly old man smelling bodies in their rocking chairs doing nothing?

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that's crazy man, i don't fault people for being healthy. life should be appreciated, and if i'm 80 years old just spending time with my grandkids or fishing from time to time then i don't consider it sitting around doing nothing at all. life should never be taken for granted.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

that's crazy man, i don't fault people for being healthy. life should be appreciated, and if i'm 80 years old just spending time with my grandkids or fishing from time to time then i don't consider it sitting around doing nothing at all. life should never be taken for granted.

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I see his argument as meaning that because people are living longer, Social Security and Medicare is being exhausted quicker and quicker. This would apply to any other subsidies the elderly may receive. It is a real concern. I'm not trying to tangent off this, but if we then have Obamacare requiring more insurance, it would keep the elderly alive and costing us money even more. Another net revenue shortfall.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Where do you think it is?

/facepalm

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How can something that does not exists be sitting anywhere?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I see his argument as meaning that because people are living longer, Social Security and Medicare is being exhausted quicker and quicker. This would apply to any other subsidies the elderly may receive. It is a real concern. I'm not trying to tangent off this, but if we then have Obamacare requiring more insurance, it would keep the elderly alive and costing us money even more. Another net revenue shortfall.

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sorry but i want to keep my grandparents alive, and you and i will be saying the same thing when were that age. there is a solution to all this, and it's going to require a new leaner healthcare system, leaner government, and less wasteful spending across a variety of areas.

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Originally Posted by cheguevara

How can something that does not exists be sitting anywhere?

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Give hem a break. He's addicted to Hope-ium.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

sorry but i want to keep my grandparents alive, and you and i will be saying the same thing when were that age. there is a solution to all this, and it's going to require a new leaner healthcare system, leaner government, and less wasteful spending across a variety of areas.

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I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's reality. Now I would advocate not having government paid life extending procedures just because they are available. There comes a time when the individual or family needs to bear the cost, or let the person pass on. It should be the tax payers.