Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

Yeah, I don't watch those anymore...not in years.

---

you don't watch your local news from time to time?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winehole23

No, I don't, but that don't mean there ain't one.

I ain't a lawyer either, but the dangers of testimony are susceptible to common sense. A completely truthful witness might not do so well on the stand for a number of reasons -- looks, level of education, dialect, race, nervousness, emotional fragility etc.., or the seriousness of the charges might make it inadvisable for the defendant to testify without powerful, highly specific reasons for doing so.

Aren't the lawyers allowed to revisit their theories in summation?

(shrugs)

---

I also think in this case the Defense has the luxury of allowing the facts speak for themselves.

But, you're right, a innocent person in the hands of an unscrupulous prosecutor can be made to appear guilty. It happened this morning during the bail hearing when prosecutors started badgering Zimmerman about whether or not he changed his story over the course of several interviews he gave to police.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

I also think in this case the Defense has the luxury of allowing the facts speak for themselves.

But, you're right, a innocent person in the hands of an unscrupulous prosecutor can be made to appear guilty. It happened this morning during the bail hearing when prosecutors started badgering Zimmerman about whether or not he changed his story over the course of several interviews he gave to police.

---

didn't see it. he took the stand this morning?

why?

Zimmerman's innocent until proven guilty. I find it humorous that you resent the prosecution for doing its job, tho.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

didn't see it. he took the stand this morning?

why?

---

I heard it on the radio.

If I heard correctly, he took the stand to respond to Trayvon's mother's questions asked in the media last week and to offer an apology, I believe.

Of course, the prosecutor to the opportunity to badger him over the case and the Martin's attorney has already called his apology self-serving.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...cution-immoral

Quote:

---

With ABC News’ release of the George Zimmerman photo showing blood flowing freely from his head, the question becomes whether Angela Corey, the prosecutor in the case, had access to the photo before charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder.
The arrest affidavit did not mention the photograph, or the bleeding, gashes, and bruises on Zimmermans’ head. Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School stated upon release of the arrest affidavit that it was “so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge … everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense.”
After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.”
Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."
When asked if it made a difference whether the prosecution had the bloody photograph at the time they charged Zimmerman, Dershowitz responded, “We do know that there were earlier photographs before the affidavit was done that strongly suggested blood on the back of the head, and we know the police had first access to him, so if there was blood they [the prosecution] would know about it …
"I've had cases in Florida against prosecutors,” Dershowitz said, “and this is not the first time they have willfully omitted exculpatory evidence. It's a continuing problem. Here, it’s not only immoral, but stupid. The whole country is watching. What do they benefit from having half-truths in an affidavit?"
Dershowitz added, "I'm not taking sides, but I'm insisting that both sides play by the rules, and so far the prosecution is not playing by the rules."

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

what do mean broke his nose? never saw any bruising.

---

You never saw the injuries to the BACK of his head either. There's a lot of shit you moonbats talked about, without knowing any of the facts. This picture was taken at the scene of the shooting, the night it happened.
http://a.abcnews.com/images/US/ht_ge...120419_ssh.jpg

Oops.

And, for the record, SEVERAL neighbors have spoken about the bandages and swelling on his nose, the following day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Winehole23

Zimmerman's innocent until proven guilty. I find it humorous that you resent the prosecution for doing its job, tho.

---

And we find it humorous that so many of you presumed that the original prosecution hadn't done its job, just because they didn't see fit to release all the evidence to the public. You never even considered the possibility that they were gathering evidence, or that the preliminary facts suggested that there simply wasn't sufficient evidence to charge the man. Nice try at turning things around, though.

Which one of you wingnuts said that the next person to say "innocent until proven guilty" should be punched in the face? The concept is suddenly not so far-fetched, is it?

One more thing - if Zimmerman really set out to kill a poor, innocent black kid that night, they way so many of you suggested when this thing first started, he wouldn't have just allowed Treyvon to smash his head into the sidewalk first. If he really was the cold-blooded, racist murderer you people insisted he was, he would have just shot the kid and been done with it. Or do you think that Treyvon did that to Zimmerman AFTER he got shot? (Actually, I'm surprised we haven't heard that theory yet.)

You made up your minds without the facts, and now a bunch of you are trying to back-pedal, or at least shift to other narratives. You won't admit that you were assholes, so other people are obligated to do it for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

comparing this to celebrity stalking? really?

---

Of course. Is it different because these people aren't celebrities? Do we put popular people on a higher pedestal? Stalking is stalking is stalking. You and other people are harping on "stalking". 20 or so minutes is not "stalking"

"he wouldn't have just allowed Treyvon to smash his head into the sidewalk first"

M was lighter but maybe he stronger, faster, more agile, better fighter than the greasebag [email protected] [email protected] couldn't hold his own as Z "stood his ground" in self-defense, so [email protected] used his gun to "even the playing field" and shot Z.

I don't think Z went out to kill anybody specific, but going out on simple neighborhood patrol with loaded gun says he was ready to kill.

Was Zimmerman lying on the ground with Martin on top of him when he shot him?

Or has that not yet been revealed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by clambake

its 2nd degree cuz the guy deliberately stalked and ended up killing the kid.

---

Love to see you try to get your definition of stalked past the court system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

Now you are just trolling.

---

I don't think he's trolling. I think he believes it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarrinS

Grass cuts

http://gothamist.com/attachments/bya...zimmemran1.jpg

---

Are those worse than paper cuts?

stalking is one definition

carry a concealed, loaded gun is totally separate

putting the two together in Z would make him highly suspect of murder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

He's already made statements to police. Those should be sufficient to tell his side of the story.

I don't see him taking the stand.

But, to be honest, I don't see this going to trial. I think it could be dismissed.

---

In the real world, it should be. Too many people want a mob lynching type justice. They don't care about the facts, they want revenge.

Oh, and here's Zimmerman's "violent past" that so many people used as an excuse to judge him guilty of murder.

In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested in Orange County, Fla., and accused of battering a police officer and obstructing justice. He pleaded to a lower charge and was ordered to attend an anger management program.

Both his wife and father testified that Zimmerman had seen two men in civilian clothes shoving his friend against a wall and that the officers never identified themselves as police. However, a police affidavit claimed that when the officers showed their badges Zimmerman said, "I don't care who you are."


I know several people who got arrested for standing up to police who were abusing their power, and just being general assholes. Sometimes people don't understand that once the cops identify themselves, they are immune from interference, no matter what they are doing. Hell, Tom Waits got arrested for standing up to a couple of off-duty cops in a bar, who were trying to jump ahead of people in line.

It doesn't automatically make them guilty of the next thing they are accused of. Only evidence does that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

Was Zimmerman lying on the ground with Martin on top of him when he shot him?

Or has that not yet been revealed?

---

And eyewitness quoted in the media, early on, said Zimmerman was on his back and Martin was on top of him, beating him up. The eyewitness called 911 and retreated upstairs (presumably to his home). By the time he got to the top of the stairs and looked back down; the man who had been on top doing the beating was lying in the grass lifeless.

That would be consistent with Zimmerman shooting Martin while he was on top of him on the ground. But, it's also possible that as the witness retreated, Martin quit beating him, got on his feet, and then Zimmerman shot him.

That's a question ballistics and the autopsy can certainly answer.

[email protected] those piece of shit injuries:lmao

I've fallen and scraped my knee and had more blood that that. It wasn't serious enough for him to get stitched up so that pic is irrelevant.

At this point its looking more and more like this creep is going to get off. I hope they do and we get some street justice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boutons_deux

stalking is one definition

carry a concealed, loaded gun is totally separate

putting the two together in Z would make him highly suspect of murder.

---

Trying to talk to an unknown person in your neighborhood isn't stalking, nor is it illegal. It was also perfectly legal for Zimmerman to be carrying the weapon. Two legal acts "together" don't make a person highly suspect of anything illegal. If they did, I have no doubt that people would be tracking your weird ass down and making citizens arrests.

Once again, you should be glad that the rest of the people don't follow your twisted rules for life. And if you ever get accused of anything, you better hope like hell you don't get people like yourself on the jury.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boutons_deux

stalking is one definition

carry a concealed, loaded gun is totally separate

putting the two together in Z would make him highly suspect of murder.

---

:lmao

Gfy. Repeatedly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trill Clinton

[email protected] those piece of shit injuries:lmao

I've fallen and scraped my knee and had more blood that that. It wasn't serious enough for him to get stitched up so that pic is irrelevant.

---

You can die from a closed head injury that produces no external bleeding.

The pictures prove Zimmerman suffered a head injury consistent with his claim of having it struck against a concrete sidewalk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trill Clinton

At this point its looking more and more like this creep is going to get off. I hope they do and we get some street justice.

---

I hope this forum logs IP addresses.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yonivore

You can die from a closed head injury that produces no external bleeding.

The pictures prove Zimmerman suffered a head injury consistent with his claim of having it struck against a concrete sidewalk.


I hope this forum logs IP addresses.

---

you can die from a gunshot to the sternum too foh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trill Clinton

you can die from a gunshot to the sternum too foh.

---

No doubt about that. Well, let me qualify that; the projectile would have to penetrate the sternum and violate an internal organ or vessel vital to life. The sternum offers protection but, being shot in it isn't necessarily fatal