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Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Does anyone else remember the controversy that surrounded Vinny Del Negro's departure from the Spurs as a player?
If I recall correctly, Vinny was a free agent who wanted to return to the Spurs but Pop apparently had other ideas. The story was that Pop and Vinny had dinner one night during the summer to discuss the situation.
Then unexpectedly (according to Vinny) Pop went public after the dinner and blindsided Vinny by announcing that Vinny wanted a ton of money to re-sign with the Spurs. Vinny thought it was a cheap ploy by Pop to keep fan support when Pop intended to let a fairly popular player walk -- Pop didn't want a fan backlash.
That launched a war of words between Pop and Vinny and a PR battle in the press.
Vinny denied that he wanted anything close to amount of money that Pop referred to and countered that Pop just wanted Vinny gone but wanted to blame Vinny for the seperation.
I hestitate to start a post about this, but I do seem to recall it happening (then again my mind is somewhat addled with age).
So does anyone else remember any of this?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Thank you Pop for getting that loser out of a Spurs uniform.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
All I remember is that Vinny was one of the few players/coaches that left sour publicly. Vinny had a really solid mid-range jumper but was not all that great defensively.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I thought it was vinny didn't want to be a backup to Mario Elie. It's been 14 years so my memory ain't that great. Plus per Internet so if it happened during the summer I had no idea.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Wasn't this the controversy that left Kevin O'Keefe without a job here in SA?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
That launched a war of words between Pop and Vinny and a PR battle in the press.
What press? Gregg Simmons and David Sears? No one gave a shit about the Spurs back in '98.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
It wasn't about the money or press. It was always about Vinny's douchey 80's hairdo. Pop wanted the haircut, Vinny said no, so Pop cut him out his own way.
http://789chan.org/pmb/src/132297930741.png
Carry on :downspin:
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Peabody
Wasn't this the controversy that left Kevin O'Keefe without a job here in SA?
If you're referring to O'Keefe's love for Del Negro and his inability to control himself when writing about it, then probably so.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Peabody
Wasn't this the controversy that left Kevin O'Keefe without a job here in SA?
Yeah O'Keefe defended Vinny against Pop and ripped Pop big Tim in the paper right?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
LoL Greg Simmons... I used to run into that dude in Sunova Beach all the time.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
But it's not like Pop planted the story, particularly since O'Keefe was the one making all the noise about it. I also don't think Del Negro was so popular that it required media subterfuge to let him go. If Pop had a history of doing that in the last 14 years, I might be inclined to believe Vinny's side of this.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
If you're referring to O'Keefe's love for Del Negro and his inability to control himself when writing about it, then probably so.
I remember after O'Keefe was ousted, he wrote some article in the SA Current called "The Ire of Pop" blasting Pop and saying the players felt that Pop couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. Now, he's perhaps the most respected coach in the league.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Peabody
Wasn't this the controversy that left Kevin O'Keefe without a job here in SA?
It was a part of a three-headed Pop controversy at the time -- the way Pop (allegedly) orchestrated the exile of Bob Hill, Kevin O'Keefe and Vinny Del Negro.
Pop didn't gingerly take on the Spurs coaching job by sticking his toe in the water. He put his head down and charged into the line, hatchet in hand.
But who can argue with the results that ensued?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr. Peabody
I remember after O'Keefe was ousted, he wrote some article in the SA Current called "The Ire of Pop" blasting Pop and saying the players felt that Pop couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. Now, he's perhaps the most respected coach in the league.
Meh, Pop gets way too much credit as an Xs and Os guy, it's true, but the fact remains that Pop does not have a track record of getting butthurt and leaking shit to the press, and Kevin O'Keefe, who loves all things Bob Hill and Vinny Del Negro, simply doesn't have history on his side.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
Cane
It wasn't about the money or press. It was always about Vinny's douchey 80's hairdo. Pop wanted the haircut, Vinny said no, so Pop cut him out his own way.
http://789chan.org/pmb/src/132297930741.png
Carry on :downspin:
I thought that was Dwayne Schntzius?
Quote:
Former University of Florida basketball center Dwayne Schintzius, of Brandon High, was the NBA draft's 24th overall pick in 1990. He liked the San Antonio Spurs and anticipated a long career there. But Spurs general manager Bob Bass didn't care for Schintzius' "lobster'' hairstyle.
"He told me to cut it,'' Schintzius said. "So I got it cut and sent him the shavings in an envelope. I'm not sure he appreciated that. And then, away I went.''
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Popovich, who never cares about how things look, fired Bob Hill when David was coming back from injury, making it look like he didn't want the team to win and leaving a lot of people believing he was tanking for Duncan. I remember thinking exactly that at the time.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
All I remember about the time Vinny was leaving was that everybody was so sad that Mrs. Vinny went with him.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
The story according to Kevin O'Keeffe:
-Pop, Vinny and Vinny's agent go out to dinner.
-Pop tells Vinny's agent to make an outrageous offer just to act as a starting point.
-Pop scoffs at the offer, makes it public and never calls back Vinny's agent.
That scenario as painted by O'Keeffe was so unfathomable that the Spurs told the Express-News that they either have to fire O'Keeffe or the Spurs would stop giving preferred access to the paper. The Express-News decided to "re-assign" O'Keeffe and took him off the Spurs beat. O'Keeffe said if he couldn't write about the Spurs that he'd quit ... so he left.
Either Pop pulled off the greatest two-pronged trolling of all-time (eliminating Del Negro and O'Keeffe with one stone) or O'Keeffe was still butthurt about Pop firing Bob Hill (who O'Keeffe was co-authoring a book with) and Pop no longer wanted Del Negro (and that "dinner" never happened).
I think it's the latter but with CIA Pop, you can't completely rule out the former.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
at that time pop was very high on d
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
timvp
That scenario as painted by O'Keeffe was so unfathomable that the Spurs told the Express-News that they either have to fire O'Keeffe or the Spurs would stop giving preferred access to the paper.
If you can dig up the original story by O'Keefe, I'd love to see it. I've had no luck looking.
Second, is what the Spurs told the EN on record or is that just the way you assume it went down? Given O'Keefe's complete lack of partiality when it came to Pop, I wouldn't be surprised if there was pressure put on, but it seems like a rather realistic response to a writer who's gone off the deep end and lost most of his objectivity.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
If you can dig up the original story by O'Keefe, I'd love to see it. I've had no luck looking.
Here's a blurb about O'Keeffe's account:
Word out of San Antonio is that Spurs coach/general manager Gregg Popovich pulled a fast one to get rid of popular guard Vinny Del Negro. San Antonio Express-News columnist Kevin O'Keeffe wrote that Popovich, not wanting to look like the bad guy, asked Del Negro's agent to come in with a high offer that he could then reject. They'd eventually settle on a lower figure, making Popovich look like a cost-cutting hero. But Popovich used the high numbers as an excuse to dump Del Negro and sign Steve Kerr for less than what Del Negro realistically could have expected. "With Popovich," O'Keeffe wrote, "it's always monkey business."
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/6...ond-Clock.html
This, however, seems to be the original piece:
Quote:
Del Negro hurt over tale of greed
Kevin O'Keeffe
Publication Date : February 1, 1999
Vincent Joseph Del Negro sounded weary as we spoke at what was a very late hour in Italy.
Del Negro's team had been eliminated from the Italian Cup Championship Tournament and, ever the competitor, that bothered him.
But what also bothers Del Negro is what happened in San Antonio, where he and his wife, Lynn, planned to spend the remainder of his basketball life and beyond.
"Hurt ... angry," Del Negro began, making his first public comments since being dumped by the Spurs after six years of exemplary service on and off the court. "There has been maliciousness. I hated the way I was made out to look greedy.
"Greedy? Far from it. If I was so greedy, why wouldn't I have taken the contract to remain in Italy rather than sign for the $1.75 million exception in Milwaukee?"
Exactly.
Del Negro turned down $4 million per season from his Italian League team to accept a four-year contract with the Bucks.
Today, Del Negro is in Milwaukee taking his physical. He'll be on the practice floor Tuesday. The Bucks open the season Friday night in Charlotte, N.C.
"George Karl has been wonderful," Del Negro said of his telephone conversations with the Bucks' head coach. "He has done everything for me that he could do. I'm looking forward to playing for him. It's nice to know that you're wanted."
Which, sadly, Del Negro wasn't in San Antonio.
As I mentioned in my Jan. 22 column, Spurs general manager/coach Gregg Popovich indicated to Del Negro and his representative, Jack Marin, in October 1997 that Vinny wasn't wanted here.
That's when a contract proposal from Marin that Popovich asked for was ignored. Del Negro, who was a free agent after last season, confirmed again that neither he nor Marin ever heard one word in response from Popovich.
But that lack of professionalism was topped by Popovich's very own brand of "bait-and-switch" last month.
That's when Popovich asked Marin to come in high - I was told Popovich's exact words were, "Make an offer that makes you look like an idiot and me look like a hero."
Marin did just that and Popovich feigned disgust and horror, putting out that Del Negro was demanding $5 million per season and using that as an excuse to dump the popular player, who could play off-guard and the point.
And lest we forget, during a dinner between Popovich and Marin on Jan. 14, it was Popovich who talked about giving Del Negro what he deserved.
The parameters of a five-year deal, which began at $3 million and topped out at $4.4 million, were discussed at that dinner.
Now, Popovich reportedly has denied this scenario on his radio show.
But you be the judge.
Do you honestly believe Del Negro would demand $5 million?
C'mon.
Popovich not only is insulting a good man in Del Negro, but the Spurs' boss is insulting the intelligence of every one of you.
As we spoke, I could tell Del Negro was holding back. He chose his words carefully.
Del Negro is the consummate pro. He's never been one to speak out publicly on matters.
Still, there was no mistaking the hurt he feels on this one.
"It didn't have to come to this," Del Negro said. "If they really wanted me, as Pop told Jack, they should never have let me become a free agent."
Del Negro had nothing but praise for the additions of Steve Kerr, Mario Elie and Jerome Kersey to the Spurs' roster.
"All good players, all good guys," Del Negro said.
Yet, he didn't try to hide how disappointed he was not having the chance to play with the Spurs this season.
"With Tim (Duncan), Dave (Robinson), Avery (Johnson) and a healthy Sean (Elliott), that's going to be an excellent team," Del Negro said. "And after being in San Antonio for six years, going through coaching changes and all, I was looking forward to being with the team.
"The next two years with Tim, the team really has a chance to go places."
Instead, the 32-year-old Del Negro must put his golf clubs in the closet for the cold climes of Milwaukee.
"I'm excited about the challenge," he said. "I'm excited about being coached by George. And, as I said, I'm glad to be going where somebody wants me."
In time, Del Negro said he wants to talk to Spurs owner Peter Holt about how things were handled.
I wish I thought that would matter to Holt, who seems to be under a Svengali- like spell performed by Popovich.
What's curious about all of this is that Popovich's pettiness regarding Del Negro cost him.
Portland, Detroit, Miami and Phoenix also had an interest in Del Negro.
Why wouldn't GM Popovich have done a sign-and-trade deal to have gotten something for his "resource?"
"Bottom line," Del Negro began, "all Pop had to do was pick up the telephone and say, 'Vinny, we're not going to sign you.' I understand that's business."
But with Popovich, it's always monkey business.
By the way, SPARKY developed a good archive of O'Keeffe's criticisms a few years ago, here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...t=7069&page=15
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
If you can dig up the original story by O'Keefe, I'd love to see it. I've had no luck looking.
Second, is what the Spurs told the EN on record or is that just the way you assume it went down? Given O'Keefe's complete lack of partiality when it came to Pop, I wouldn't be surprised if there was pressure put on, but it seems like a rather realistic response to a writer who's gone off the deep end and lost most of his objectivity.
That's what O'Keefe reported in his article in the Current. He said the Spurs insisted that he not cover the team anymore and the Express capitulated. O'Keefe said that since they were the only pro team in town, it didn't leave him much to write on and quit.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
:lmao I wonder what O'Keeffe thinks about Pop and Holt four championships later.
Not re-signing Vinny might have been the best move before the '99 season.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Thank you Pop for getting that loser out of a Spurs uniform.
:lol
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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"Hurt ... angry," Del Negro began, making his first public comments since being dumped by the Spurs after six years of exemplary service on and off the court.
:rollin
Six years of being a piece of shit who held the team back. Fuck Del Negro, the Spurs would have never won a title with that faggot in the rotation.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
:lol @ at the thought of Pop ever saying "Make something that makes me look like a hero"
GMAFB
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
timvp
:lmao I wonder what O'Keeffe thinks about Pop and Holt four championships later.
Not re-signing Vinny might have been the best move before the '99 season.
When you consider that they brought in Kersey and Elie, both key parts of the '99 championship, Pop looks like a genius. And Del Negro wasn't known for his defense and that was the identity of that team.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
timvp
:lmao I wonder what O'Keeffe thinks about Pop and Holt four championships later.
Not re-signing Vinny might have been the best move before the '99 season.
When I heard they were about to sign Elie and that talks with Del Negro had gone really sour it was one of my favorite moments in franchise history, real talk.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
it was painful watching vinny bring the ball up the court lol pg
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Lol I can't even try to picture pop that way, regardless good move pop no Kerr no title in 03.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
shyne
Lol I can't even try to picture pop that way, regardless good move pop no Kerr no title in 03.
Well they did trade Kerr away with Derek Anderson for a couple seasons....
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
when was vinny ever mildly popular
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I remember Vinny being popular. Sold quite a bit of jerseys.
About as popular as maybe Gary Neal.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
timvp
I think it's the former but with CIA Pop, you can't completely rule out the former.
Which former for each case?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
slick'81
it was painful watching vinny bring the ball up the court lol pg
I remember him always getting to the three point line and turning his back to the basket.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
DAF86
Which former for each case?
Oops. That first former should have been latter. :downspin:
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Vinny was annoying as fuck with his toe on the line 2 point jumpers he took every game.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I always liked Vinny, but I was pretty young at the time so I can't say I really disliked anyone. I remember he had an automatic midrange J. I also remember he would pull up from 15 feet even in transition, which looking back now seems incredibly soft. I don't think I ever saw him take it hard to the basket. Even his dunks were really soft; they consisted of him holding the ball over the rim, letting it drop and not touching the rim.
That being said, his hair was second to maybe only Pat Riley, and wife was a dimepiece. I can respect that.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
Mr. Peabody
That's what O'Keefe reported in his article in the Current. He said the Spurs insisted that he not cover the team anymore and the Express capitulated. O'Keefe said that since they were the only pro team in town, it didn't leave him much to write on and quit.
So it's coming from O'Keefe, who couldn't have been more insulting to Popovich and Holt in the above hatchet-job. Forgive me if I take his account with a grain of salt.
I'm not sure what's more stupid, that we're expected to believe that Popovich would say "Make me look like a hero" or that he'd tell an agent "Make an offer that makes you look like an idiot" and expect him to actually do it.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
Dingle Barry
I remember him always getting to the three point line and turning his back to the basket.
:rollin yes that's exactly the image I have of him too. :toast
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
my2sons
when was vinny ever mildly popular
My wife thought he was attractive. I thought he was more of a point guard than Lloyd Daniels or Chris Whitney.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
that's pretty much how I remember it. And let's not kid ourselves Pop is a vindinctive dude when push comes to shove. Of course Pop never as far as I can remember made it an issue, he pretty much ignored it, although the Express news did ask O'Keefe to retract the story which he never did and he either quit or was let go. AS far as Vinnie is concerned I always thought he got used by O'Keefe precisely because his feeling were hurt. And Vinnie was a solid player during the regular season, in the playoffs or in big games he did what a lot of guys in the NBA do he passed up the big shot. Which always frustrated the hell out of me.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I've had one conversation with Coach Popovich in my life. It occurred after one of Jay Howard's Inside Luncheon's at the old Veladi Steak house on Loop 410.
After the lunch, I approached Pop and asked him if we were going to keep Vinny and Jaren Jackson. He said "no" and that Vinny would most likely not be signed. I shit you not. This was before anything went public about what the Spurs were going to do in free agency.
I was surprised that he gave up that information to me. Jaren had shown enough in Tim's rookie season to warrant making the team over a much more expensive Del Negro. Jackson also had better range and had started 53 games to Vinny's 41 and averaged just 1 pt less. The economics didn't make sense to bring Vinny back when they could go sign a guy like Mario Elie.
Vinny was an 'ok' player but Elie brought toughness and so did Jaren Jackson.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Some Vinny thoughts:
-Before Duncan came, I didn't hate Vinny. First of all, the Spurs guards were so horrible during the beginning of the David Robinson Era that Vinny was good by comparison. I mean, when it came down to Negele Knight, Sleepy Floyd, Chris Whitney, Greg Sutton or Vinny ... Vinny looked pretty damn good.
-After Pop was the coach and Duncan arrived, Vinny started to stick out like a sore thumb. The Spurs were toughening up and Vinny couldn't hang. This is a guy who was asking Michael Jordan for an autograph DURING A GAME. With the Spurs trying to turn around their soft image, Vinny was obviously the weak link in doing that.
-Vinny not having true three-point range made him a horrible fit next to the Twin Towers. And with the pace of games slowing down and hand-checking becoming more important, Vinny was becoming more and more of a defensive liability.
-Vinny signed his own exit after he refused to workout with the rest of the team during the '99 lockout. While AJ, Elie, Duncan, Elliott, Jackson and others were balling in Houston and being coached up by Doc Rivers, Del Negro stayed away. Once the lockout ended, AJ basically demanded that Del Negro get replaced by Elie.
-The Spurs were still paying Charles Smith and didn't have much financial flexibility. As far as I remember, the Spurs really didn't have the funds to give Vinny any money. Their additions that offseason were all for a million dollars and less.
P.S.
My favorite Vinny memories were that behind the back dunk (against the Bulls, IIRC) and his few game winners (I think against the Cavs and Nets). He also had a pretty damn awesome stretch during the '95 season. Not sure what got into him but he was a top ten shooting guard for part of that season somehow.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I remember my mom really liked Vinny, she held a grudge against Pop for several years after he let him go. :lol
As for me though, I fucking loved the move. People still think of DRob as soft because he had guys like Del negro shrinking on him in the playoffs. :flipoff
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Why would a respected journalist just make up a blatant lie though?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slick'81
it was painful watching vinny bring the ball up the court lol pg
Astonishing that he ever made a NBA payroll.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Meh, I remember Vinny as a pretty decent player and well liked by the fans at the time. He left under a cloud like Strickland and that other guy whos name I cant remember. Im sure Pop has made a few screwups in the past but its all water under the bridge now. Im glad for Vinny as a head coach and think hes doing a pretty decent job. That said, I hope we slaughter em next week.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I remember when Trader Bob tried to play up Del Negro's signing after losing Strickland in free agency in the summer of 1992. Yes.
McCombs may have kept the Spurs in SA but otherwise he was a hindrance. It took Holt Cat to bring Pop back after Red ran him and RC out.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Originally Posted by
DPG21920
Why would a respected journalist just make up a blatant lie though?
To me it's not even whether or not it's completely made-up. It's worded with such venom that there's not really any way to defend it as remotely impartial.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Um, this is just he said - he said. Here's what I think:
- when Popovich wants someone gone he's gone.
- both sides say a high number was communicated by the agent.
- the rest is "meh".
If your feelings get hurt by crap like this there's something wrong with you.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
So Pop gets to deny Del Negro a shot at a ring again?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
Some Vinny thoughts:
-Before Duncan came, I didn't hate Vinny. First of all, the Spurs guards were so horrible during the beginning of the David Robinson Era that Vinny was good by comparison. I mean, when it came down to Negele Knight, Sleepy Floyd, Chris Whitney, Greg Sutton or Vinny ... Vinny looked pretty damn good.
-After Pop was the coach and Duncan arrived, Vinny started to stick out like a sore thumb. The Spurs were toughening up and Vinny couldn't hang. This is a guy who was asking Michael Jordan for an autograph DURING A GAME. With the Spurs trying to turn around their soft image, Vinny was obviously the weak link in doing that.
-Vinny not having true three-point range made him a horrible fit next to the Twin Towers. And with the pace of games slowing down and hand-checking becoming more important, Vinny was becoming more and more of a defensive liability.
-Vinny signed his own exit after he refused to workout with the rest of the team during the '99 lockout. While AJ, Elie, Duncan, Elliott, Jackson and others were balling in Houston and being coached up by Doc Rivers, Del Negro stayed away. Once the lockout ended, AJ basically demanded that Del Negro get replaced by Elie.
-The Spurs were still paying Charles Smith and didn't have much financial flexibility. As far as I remember, the Spurs really didn't have the funds to give Vinny any money. Their additions that offseason were all for a million dollars and less.
P.S.
My favorite Vinny memories were that behind the back dunk (against the Bulls, IIRC) and his few game winners (I think against the Cavs and Nets). He also had a pretty damn awesome stretch during the '95 season. Not sure what got into him but he was a top ten shooting guard for part of that season somehow.
Interesting. I didn't know some of the background info. Thanks for sharing. For what it's worth, I'm about 95% positive the behind the back dunk was in the Forum and he dunked on James Worthy.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Vinny was worse the Beno bringing the ball upcourt.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I am a Spurs fan since 93, Del Negro was some shyt, he had a midrange but nothing else as far as I remember.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Fuck Del Negro tbh. All I remember about that guy was that he was crazy inconsistent. He would have a good game or handful of games in a row, and then shit the bed the next 10 games. And I also remember him choking when it mattered most. So give me Elie, Kerr, and Jaren Jackson > Del Negro any day.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Thank you Pop for getting that loser out of a Spurs uniform.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
He also had a pretty damn awesome stretch during the '95 season. Not sure what got into him but he was a top ten shooting guard for part of that season somehow.
Looked it up out of curiosity. The first four games of the 1994-95 season, Willie Anderson started at shooting guard. Anderson sucked and got replaced by Vinny. And in Vinny's first 13 games as a starter, he was ungodly:
18.5 points per game
57.7% shooting from the field
40% on three-pointers
80.6% at the line
5-to-1 assist to turnover ratio
I think that's around the time than AJ gave himself and Vinny the nickname of "Red Beans and Rice". And a 13-year-old timvp was hoping that Vinny had turned the corner and was going to keep up his scorching ways.
Unfortunately it didn't last . . .
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I remember Vinny was money on pull up jumpers on the break...
Avery would get nutso assits driving and kicking to Vinny on the side or in the corners where hed one dribble shoot.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Watching Del Negro on Drexler was worse than seeing Finley guarding LeBron tbh.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Searching for Vinnie Del Negro highlight reel...
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
:lmao I wonder what O'Keeffe thinks about Pop and Holt four championships later.
Not re-signing Vinny might have been the best move before the '99 season.
The internet and the NBA league pass wasn't around back then, so living in the bay area I only could follow the Spurs by watching the occasional game on TNT/TBS and watching the highlights on SportsCenter back then, so I really didn't know the politics like most of you do.
That being said, if the story did go down like this O'Keefe guy says it did, or anything close, I don't understand why people in this thread are bashing him or Del Negro.
Especially, I would expect L.J. to be more mature about it. What the hell does how well or poorly Del Negro played have to do with anything? That's like so reactionary. That's like saying it's okay for Duncan to drink and drive, but not James Anderson.
According to the story, all Del Negro wanted was for his coach/GM to be straight with him, basically (I'm paraphrasing) "I'm a pro, I'm a grown-up, if you don't think I'm any good just tell me and we'll go our separate ways, no hard feelings. We don't need to play games."
The fact that Pop and the Spurs won four rings doesn't make him "right" or justify his behavior if indeed this is how it went down. Nobody is debating getting rid of Del Negro as a basketball decision.
The argument is whether Pop went about it the right way.
Again, I'm not saying I know for a fact that it did go down that way. It could all be pure fiction and Del Negro could be full of it or his quotes could be exaggerated. But if it's right, then the end result doesn't justify the means at all.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
roycrikside
The fact that Pop and the Spurs won four rings doesn't make him "right" or justify his behavior if indeed this is how it went down. Nobody is debating getting rid of Del Negro as a basketball decision.
I think the fact that Pop has been about the most straightforward coach in sports over the last decade is more the point. O'Keefe painted Pop as an egotistical snake-oil salesman with a need to make himself look good in public at any and all costs, even if it sacrificed the team or the franchise. It's not really how he turned out. O'Keefe had some personal ax to grind and it showed in his writing. It was unprofessional and embarrassing. Whatever truth it's based on, it doesn't excuse paranoid rantings.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
The next time Vinny leaves SA, he'll be down 2 games to 0. :lol
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Small correction, VDN's behind-the-back dunk was against James Worthy and the Lakers.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Derek Anderson spoke bad about the Spurs, since the Spurs offer was somewhat lower than the one he got from the Blazers and the last years were team option. But DA slammed the Clippers before when they rejected some trade offer, so he looked like mal-content.
Antonio Daniels complained to the media about starting, then he got traded. But from the start it was obvious Parker was talented, and only needed playtime. True to be said being an sixth man wasn't an insult.
Another example was Jack, he spoke saying the Spurs didn't offered him a starter SG type of money. Jack eventually signed two big contracts. Manu got offered like 3x more than Jack, he also had better offers though.
Finally, I have the impression Scola also got accused about wanting too much money. And it seems that he complained about the fact the Spurs were taking too much time to bring him on. He out-grew the ACB and wasn't able to sign for another team as the Spurs held his rights.
Over the time the Spurs became very careful about only signing players of good character, so there were few issues.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Vinny says here that Pop was one of the pro coaches that text him:
As Del Negro shoveled some popcorn into his mouth, he unearthed his BlackBerry out of his pocket. He squinted at the screen, held it up and said, "Fifty-two [text] messages. I bet there are five pro coaches in here."
[...]
He started to scroll the messages, and there was a congratulatory text from Dallas Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle. "Rick always calls me … and Doc [Rivers] … And Pop … "
He thinks for a moment. "And Mike Fratello, he calls."
Class Pop! :toast
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I had a teacher in middle school that would say the only reason Vinnie was with the spurs or even in the nba was because of his last name. I didn’t get it at the time
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
or maybe del negro was a damn scrub
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
o'keefe was such a tool. and if vinny could have ever just learned to bring his toe back a few centimeters then maybe he could have been retained as a 3 point specialist
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Kerr was hardly valuable on the 99 championship team. Obviously in '03 he was amazing in several playoff games but Del Negro likely would have contributed more in '99 than Kerr did. AD was a key player in 99 though, so it all worked out on the court obviously.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Vinnie was one of my favorite Spurs during this era - his mid range jumper was money.
He and Hornacek were my favorite 6'4" white guys who could shoot from this time period - Hornacek had a lot better range.
Remember that Pop wasn't as polished back then as a GM and the Spur's front office wasn't as refined as it is now.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wut
All I remember is that Vinny was one of the few players/coaches that left sour publicly. Vinny had a really solid mid-range jumper but was not all that great defensively.
You're being kind. Vinny was horrific defensively.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
LOL, Spurs would have never gotten through Portland with Del Negro at the SG. JR Rider would have abused the hell out of him and no way they could have switched Sean onto him with Rasheed getting tons of minutes at the SF.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
Some Vinny thoughts:
-Before Duncan came, I didn't hate Vinny. First of all, the Spurs guards were so horrible during the beginning of the David Robinson Era that Vinny was good by comparison. I mean, when it came down to Negele Knight, Sleepy Floyd, Chris Whitney, Greg Sutton or Vinny ... Vinny looked pretty damn good.
-After Pop was the coach and Duncan arrived, Vinny started to stick out like a sore thumb. The Spurs were toughening up and Vinny couldn't hang. This is a guy who was asking Michael Jordan for an autograph DURING A GAME. With the Spurs trying to turn around their soft image, Vinny was obviously the weak link in doing that.
-Vinny not having true three-point range made him a horrible fit next to the Twin Towers. And with the pace of games slowing down and hand-checking becoming more important, Vinny was becoming more and more of a defensive liability.
-Vinny signed his own exit after he refused to workout with the rest of the team during the '99 lockout. While AJ, Elie, Duncan, Elliott, Jackson and others were balling in Houston and being coached up by Doc Rivers, Del Negro stayed away. Once the lockout ended, AJ basically demanded that Del Negro get replaced by Elie.
-The Spurs were still paying Charles Smith and didn't have much financial flexibility. As far as I remember, the Spurs really didn't have the funds to give Vinny any money. Their additions that offseason were all for a million dollars and less.
Timvp bringing the goods. :toast
You've stirred similiar thoughts of Vinny in my own head.
I confess. Out of all the players that have come and go through the Spurs organization, Del Negro is probably the one I hated the most - and for all the aforementioned reasons listed above. He was soft defensively and he weak mentally. He did personify all that was soft - whether actual or perceived - about the Spurs at that time.
Case in point, the '95 WCF playoff series versus the Rockets. That series was billed as Hakeem Olajuwon versus David Robinson - and rightfully so. While everyone focuses on how Hakeem "wiped the floor" with Dave, people forget that Dave have a great series statistically and did his own work against Olajuwon. People also forget that Olajuwon had plenty of help from complimentary players like a young Robert Horry, Sam Cassell and veterans like Otis Thorpe and Mario Elie. On the other side, Dave got some help from Dennis Rodman, but very little from anyone else - especially Del Negro, who choked away under the playoff pressure and wilted at having to go up against the defensive-minded Elie in each game. Elie reduced Del Negro to playing like a scared little girl. No one knew it more than Pop and Avery Johnson. I'm not surprised at all to hear that AJ led the charge to get him dismissed, while courting Mario Elie. The Spurs simply had to get tougher and Elie brought the unmatched toughness.
Del Negro NOT working out with the team, during that '99 strike season, was a selfish act and a career-ending decision for him in a Spurs uniform. Besides, he was probably out working on his golf game, at the time. I remembered hearing that story of Del Negro either asking for an autograph or soliciting MJ's participation in a golf tournament, while both were standing next to one another at the FT line. Whatever the case, that sealed my dislike for the guy.
For me, Del Negro was the 90's version of Matt Bonner. He'd convert a gang of open shots in a meaningless regular season game versus an inferior opponent, but then he'd be invisible against an upper-echelon opponent. And don't get me started on the playoffs, where, like Bonner, his mental cowardice would be on full display, while his jump shot was missing in action. Like Bonner, he was a one-trick pony, who, if his jumper was on vacation, he was of no use to the team.
Unlike Del Negro, I will give Bonner this. He is a team guy through and through. While he still gets thrown around in the post too often for my tastes and has yet to shed his label as a perennial playoff choker, he has improved his positional defense and has certainly developed a comfort level with taking opponents off the dribble and making shots in the lane.
Back to Del Negro though, reading Timvp's post only reminds me of a time, where I was actually ashamed at the decision of the Spurs to invest 6 years in a guy, whom former Spurs President Bob Bass publically proclaimed, "would be a suitable replacement for Rod Strickland", who was a solid and fierce PG the Spurs traded away and a player, whom I adored.
In the end, I don't remember why Del Negro left, but I certainly was one that rejoiced when he did.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I just remember everyone referring to him as Vinny el Negro cause he had no "D".
That and both his knees seemed to come up every time he did a jump shot.
Enjoyed him to a degree as a fan, but no sense of loss when he left.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Long Vinny article by Woj, mention of Pop (as posted above too)
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--cl...ygbpzJfDs5nYcB
Quote:
As Del Negro shoveled some popcorn into his mouth, he unearthed his BlackBerry out of his pocket. He squinted at the screen, held it up and said, "Fifty-two [text] messages. I bet there are five pro coaches in here."
However the rest of the world sees him, Del Negro refuses to accept that he's still some interloper into the coaching profession, an outsider who didn't pay the proper dues. Opportunities come when they come, and it's what you do with them, how you make the most of them.
He started to scroll the messages, and there was a congratulatory text from Dallas Mavericks coach Rick Carlisle. "Rick always calls me … and Doc [Rivers] … And Pop …
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Hearing the AJ ran the guy out of town makes me love the Little General even more. Makes sense since he was pushing hard to get Mario to sign here that February.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dunkman
Derek Anderson spoke bad about the Spurs, since the Spurs offer was somewhat lower than the one he got from the Blazers and the last years were team option. But DA slammed the Clippers before when they rejected some trade offer, so he looked like mal-content.
DA was actually a malcontent, and he spoke bad about the Spurs simply because he wasn't the first priority for the team. Sorry that he doesn't fucking understand that signing David Robinson is more important than signing him. He also went on the local news to show off his new house and his cars while whining about how he wasn't getting paid enough. It looked like he signed the offer sheet with Portland as punishment for Pop putting a deadline on the deal (Timmy's wedding was that weekend). He wasn't worth 48 million for six years. It turns out it was probably an under-the-table deal with Portland for signing other clients of DA's agent and everything else was a smokescreen. The only reason he wasn't a Blazer the year before was because the Clippers messed up the trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dunkman
Another example was Jack, he spoke saying the Spurs didn't offered him a starter SG type of money. Jack eventually signed two big contracts. Manu got offered like 3x more than Jack, he also had better offers though.
Jack ended up signing with Atlanta for less money. His agent flubbed that negotiation. In fact, most of the situations cited could be attributed to bad representation on the part of the players, who only get their information from their agent.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I remember seeing Vinny on the Riverwalk during All-Star weekend with his date and a bodyguard.
I was amused.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
Jack ended up signing with Atlanta for less money. His agent flubbed that negotiation. In fact, most of the situations cited could be attributed to bad representation on the part of the players, who only get their information from their agent.
Things were so bad with that agent, the Spurs only communicated with him via fax.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
Jack ended up signing with Atlanta for less money. His agent flubbed that negotiation. In fact, most of the situations cited could be attributed to bad representation on the part of the players, who only get their information from their agent.
I remember Pop complimenting Roger Mason Jr. for playing for less money, proving himself, and earning a much bigger contract afterwards. That's pretty much what Jackson did. I agree that his agent was incompetent, but he did pretty much say that's what they were doing.
Anderson definitely let his pride get in the way. But I think he probably got about $2M per season more out of Portland than he would have gotten here. That's not chump change. And the fact is, Anderson had a career FG% of around .410. The Spurs shouldn't have been so in love with him that they would try and match what Portland gave him.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GSH
I remember Pop complimenting Roger Mason Jr. for playing for less money, proving himself, and earning a much bigger contract afterwards. That's pretty much what Jackson did. I agree that his agent was incompetent, but he did pretty much say that's what they were doing.
Anderson definitely let his pride get in the way. But I think he probably got about $2M per season more out of Portland than he would have gotten here. That's not chump change. And the fact is, Anderson had a career FG% of around .410. The Spurs shouldn't have been so in love with him that they would try and match what Portland gave him.
Not fully knowing the backstory of the whole Derek Anderson fiasco, I cursed the Spurs for letting him walk, at that time. However seeing how Anderson host his own version of NBA Cribs for local SA Sports TV and seeing how much he flopped in Portland after getting the big contract, I had to eat some crow on that. I never knew Anderson deemed himself as offseason priority #1 for the Spurs. I guess he got his money - and later his commuppence.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SenorSpur
Not fully knowing the backstory of the whole Derek Anderson fiasco, I cursed the Spurs for letting him walk, at that time. However seeing how Anderson host his own version of NBA Cribs for local SA Sports TV and seeing how much he flopped in Portland after getting the big contract, I had to eat some crow on that. I never knew Anderson deemed himself as offseason priority #1 for the Spurs. I guess he got his money - and later his commuppence.
If the Spurs hadn't just expected Robinson to take the league minimum and found themselves having to scramble to make him happy, DA would have been offseason priority number one.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
If the Spurs hadn't just expected Robinson to take the league minimum and found themselves having to scramble to make him happy, DA would have been offseason priority number one.
The Spurs seriously expected Robinson to take league minimum? If that's the case they probably could have gotten him for cheaper if they hadn't disrespected him like that.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
If the Spurs hadn't just expected Robinson to take the league minimum and found themselves having to scramble to make him happy, DA would have been offseason priority number one.
Are you sure about this? Wasn't that the year that Chris Webber was offseason priority number one and that was why we didn't offer robinson so much.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Why do I remember Vinny doing color on spurs games? Am I wrong?
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
spurs I think offered DRob like $4-5 million/season for 2? seasons. He balked and stories came of him signing in NYC. So spurs manned up and resigned him for like $10 million/season I think.
When spurs went after Webber, they also went after Kidd (I believe it was the same summer). I think the rumor with Webber was that the spurs contacted his brother, who purposely didn't tell Chris that the spurs were interested. Some mumbo jumbo like that.
Kidd flirted with the Spurs until NBC offered his then wife a job doing side line reporting in NY. Canned her once he resigned with the Nets.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Kidd was 03. I think Webber refused to call Pop back. Both FA losses worked out incredibly well for the team. The guard they went after in 01 was Finley.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Kidd was 03. I think Webber refused to call Pop back. Both FA losses worked out incredibly well for the team. The guard they went after in 01 was Finley.
that is what I thought
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SenorSpur
You're being kind. Vinny was horrific defensively.
Yes, was trying to be kind. :lol
As for the way Vinny left, everyone who works knows that it isn't always about performing your job well....it's about meeting expectations; and Vinny no longer met expectations....the rest of the story is all butt hurt.
The article O'Keefe wrote was childish and pointless....I wonder if he regrets writing it. I'm sure his bitterness and stubbornness would have him say otherwise but from a high level what went down with Vinny and Pop was just business.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drachen
Are you sure about this? Wasn't that the year that Chris Webber was offseason priority number one and that was why we didn't offer robinson so much.
I was exaggerating when I said league minimum, but my point still stands. To my memory, Spurs wanted to sign a big ticket free agent and there was discussion that Robinson would take less money for the good of the team, but somehow that snowballed into many people assuming that he would take next to nothing, and Robinson felt (rightfully) disrespected for all he had done for the team.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
To me it's not even whether or not it's completely made-up. It's worded with such venom that there's not really any way to defend it as remotely impartial.
No kidding. A possible non-psycho version might go something like this:
Pop's probably not planning on resigning Vinny, but like any reasonable GM, he doesn't want to burn any bridges until he's ready to make his moves.
Agent sets up a dinner, Pop goes. That's what you do to be polite.
Pop doesn't want to discuss specifics, so he just says "Make me an offer." With possible additions like "Whatever you want" or "whatever you think is fair" because he doesn't want to discuss specifics -- especially since he's probably not resigning Vinny anyway. The agent misreads the situation, and thinks that the absence of specifics means he can go as high as he wants, and they'll just sort it all out when they negotiate the deal for real.
The agent comes in way high, Pop more or less laughs at the proposal, and the agent and Vinny walk away butthurt because they think Pop played them.
Then again, maybe Pop did totally play them. Even if it's true, you can hardly fault the outcome.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sa_butta
There's one quote by Pop that I can just see him saying in a gangster outfit, whispering like Marlon Brando in the Godfather:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pop
You know, there's usually about one to three guys on every team who get it.
Vinny was one of those guys.
:)
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
I liked Vinny and I liked Bob Hill. And when O'Keefe got fired, I was wondering if Pop knew what the hell he was doing.
But it turns out he did and his defensive philosophy grew on me.
Though sometimes I wonder if the Spurs should have one more title in the time Dave and TD played together.
Vinny was a defensive liability and played like a sloth. And it was agonizing to watch him play point guard. But I recall he was one of the main reasons the Spurs tied up the series against the Rockets in '95. Both of the games in Houston, it seemed like he hit a bunch of key shots. I'm just going by memory because I haven't seen either game since the live broadcasts.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...hat-he-missed/
Buck Harvey basically answered all of our questions in this thread. Kevin O'Keeffe was either full of crap (surprise, surprise) or Jack Marin was the one spreading all the obvious lies.
I can't believe anyone bought the stuff O'Keeffe publicized about how Pop tricked an agent into making an obscene offer. I mean, that's not even a good lie :lol
Good to know that Vinny got over it. I was always a bit confused about why Vinny liked Pop so much when he seemingly left on bad terms. Now we know why . . .
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
Quote:
That didn’t make sense then, and it makes less now. After all, how many times in the past decade has Popovich been accused of playing these kinds of games?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Obstructed_View
I think the fact that Pop has been about the most straightforward coach in sports over the last decade is more the point.
I got John Carrolled.
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Re: Remember the Way Vinny Left SA?
BTW, it's really funny that the EN automatically filters Vinny's name because it won't let you say "negro".
