Clippers-Spurs a better match than you think

Most people seem to believe the Spurs have a big advantage in their Western Conference semifinal matchup with the Clippers. After all, they're the well-rested team with championship experience. The Clips are supposedly too young and too banged up to win this series.

I think the opposite may be true.

To me, the tough, physical, grueling seven-game series that Los Angeles just played with Memphis is what playoff basketball is all about. Yes, the Clippers got dinged up – Caron Butler broke a hand, Chris Paul strained his hip flexor, Blake Griffin sprained a knee – but they also got battle-tested. If they're relatively healthy, I think they'll benefit from what they went through in the first round.

Playoff basketball is extremely physical, and the Spurs haven't had to play that kind of basketball yet. They didn't get tested by the Jazz in the first round. They were able to play the same up-and-down style they used in the regular season. They played 11 guys and limited the minutes of their older stars. Now they've had a full week to rest some more, but is that really such a good thing?

Rest can mean rust. If you haven't played in a while, it's hard to get up to speed quickly. I think the Clippers have a great chance to steal Game 1 in San Antonio on Tuesday. They've been playing intense, physical basketball for a while now and don't have to change their mentality. Are the Spurs mentally and physically ready? We'll see.

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He is right about the similarities. Spurs and Clippers are both elite offenses that have an elite PG leading the helm and a star PF as the horse (More so for Duncan in previous seasons). Both teams are also loaded with shooters. The biggest difference is going to be the coaching and chemistry for San Antonio. When you've been together so many years and been through so much you just know how to win.

Other analysts have put it well when they say San Antonio isn't ever going to beat themselves. Due to that experience as a unit their execution is ELITE. This is what's going to unravel the Clippers. That being said all the talk of a sweep needs to end. Not saying it can't happen but you're REALLY underestimating the Clippers if you don't think they at least have a shot to steal two games.

Clippers have won something like 16 of their last 17 home games. In LA they will win at least one, maybe both.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Clippers have won something like 16 of their last 17 home games. In LA they will win at least one, maybe both.

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Something's got to give there. The Spurs have won 22 of their last 25 road games.

By the way, including the first round, the Clippers are 13-2 in their last 15 home games and 14-3 in their last 17

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Something's got to give there. The Spurs have won 22 of their last 25 road games.

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Oh not saying by any means it's impressive or anything. Spurs have 10 game win streaks regularly, Clippers have never had one for example. Just saying Clippers are not going to be a pushover at Staples. They NEVER win in San Antonio though so I expect the team to be 0-2 headed back home. We'll see if the Clippers can miraculously steal one in SA.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

He is right about the similarities. Spurs and Clippers are both elite offenses that have an elite PG leading the helm and a star PF as the horse (More so for Duncan in previous seasons). Both teams are also loaded with shooters. The biggest difference is going to be the coaching and chemistry for San Antonio. When you've been together so many years and been through so much you just know how to win.

Other analysts have put it well when they say San Antonio isn't ever going to beat themselves. Due to that experience as a unit their execution is ELITE. This is what's going to unravel the Clippers. That being said all the talk of a sweep needs to end. Not saying it can't happen but you're REALLY underestimating the Clippers if you don't think they at least have a shot to steal two games.

Clippers have won something like 16 of their last 17 home games. In LA they will win at least one, maybe both.

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I think most have Spurs in 5. I think the Clippers win game 3 at home, but the Spurs are so good at coming on strong after a loss, I can't see them winning two in a row. Chris Paul has the ability to keep most of the games close, but his time on the bench will be when the Spurs can pull away.

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Originally Posted by donjuansdaddy

But both Griffin and Paul are injured and they are going to have to play a team that pushes the ball offensively and are worlds better than the Grizz at doing so. Spurs were the lowest in fouls committed and turnovers in the NBA this season, something the Grizz were atrocious at against the Clips last series. That is why many people at this point pick the Spurs in 5 and wouldn't be surprise if its a sweep.

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I agree on both Griffin+Paul carrying injuries having a negative effect. Just saying this is the number 4 offense vs the number 1 offense. If the Clippers DO get hot they are one of a handful of teams that can match the firepower of the Spurs. So if it turns into a shootout there is no guarantee the Spurs win it.

I think the Grizzlies are the best or 2nd best frontcourt in the NBA after the Lakers. Clippers overcame them and now they have to deal with the perimeter threat of San Antonio. Which means DJ+Griffin are likely to have a much better series. If the Clippers can control the paint they can steal 2 games as I said.

It would take divine intervention for them to win the series though.

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Originally Posted by sa_butta

I think most have Spurs in 5. I think the Clippers win game 3 at home, but the Spurs are so good at coming on strong after a loss, I can't see them winning two in a row. Chris Paul has the ability to keep most of the games close, but his time on the bench will be when the Spurs can pull away.

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Eric Bledsoe has given Tony Parker and the Spurs problems every time he's gotten solid minutes. I think he needs to either be starting at the 2 or be the first man off the bench this series. I think he can wreak serious havoc on your wing players defensively. Point is when CP3 goes to bench the offense struggles to score but the defense picks up significantly.

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Originally Posted by Kiki

The Spurs are still a mystery to me. They have their championship core, plus Stephen Jackson, but they also have seven or eight young guys who have been playing key roles . How will those young guys react when they get their first real taste of playoff basketball? And will the Spurs be able to keep using 11 or 12 guys, or will they need to shorten their bench and lean on their stars?

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Did the Spurs not play in the first round? Sure the Jazz weren't the greatest, but I'd bet they would have given a couple of other playoff teams a run for their money.

The picture where they say BG is better than Duncan sums up how I probably feel about that article.

Wrong. Until BG can actually shoot consistently from midrange, he will never, EVER be better than Duncan. Oh, and learn some post defense.

The picture where they say BG is better than Duncan sums up how I probably feel about that article.

Wrong. Until BG can actually shoot consistently from midrange, he will never, EVER be better than Duncan. Oh, and learn some post defense.

Doug you need to live in reality. Griffin is a second year player who put up 21, 11 and 3 this season with 54 percent shooting. Duncan hasn't been at that level statistically for what 3 seasons now? Duncan is more refined but he's absolutely not the better player.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Doug you need to live in reality. Griffin is a second year player who put up 21, 11 and 3 this season with 54 percent shooting. Duncan hasn't been at that level statistically for what 3 seasons now? Duncan is more refined but he's absolutely not the better player.

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Wait -- normalize the difference to account for the disparity in minutes played (Griffin plays about 8 more minutes per game than Duncan did during the regular season)

Per 36 minutes:

Tim Duncan
19.7 pts
11.5 reb
2.9 ast
1.9 blk

Blake Griffin
20.6 pts
10.8 reb
3.2 ast
0.7 blk

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

Wait -- normalize the difference to account for the disparity in minutes played (Griffin plays about 8 more minutes per game than Duncan did during the regular season)

Per 36 minutes:

Tim Duncan
19.7 pts
11.5 reb
2.9 ast
1.9 blk

Blake Griffin
20.6 pts
10.8 reb
3.2 ast
0.7 blk

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Projected stats don't work for a 36 year old player. Duncan is playing little minutes because he CAN'T play 38 minutes a game anymore. Projecting the same production he gives now over 36 or 48 minutes isn't accurate. Duncan is the better defender and smarter player, that's about it. Griffin is passing more, scoring better and rebounding more.

I have no problem saying Duncan is still a star or borderline star but to say he's BETTER than Griffin at this point is denial.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Projected stats don't work for a 36 year old player. Duncan is playing little minutes because he CAN'T play 38 minutes a game anymore. Projecting the same production he gives now over 36 or 48 minutes isn't accurate. Duncan is the better defender and smarter player, that's about it. Griffin is passing more, scoring better and rebounding more.

I have no problem saying Duncan is still a star or borderline star but to say he's BETTER than Griffin at this point is denial.

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To say Duncan is a "borderline star" make you a fucking idiot.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Doug you need to live in reality. Griffin is a second year player who put up 21, 11 and 3 this season with 54 percent shooting. Duncan hasn't been at that level statistically for what 3 seasons now? Duncan is more refined but he's absolutely not the better player.

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Comparing regular season numbers between Duncan and Griffin is pretty flawed. Duncan's 36 and spent the year on a team who looks at the regular season as a playoff pre-season and limited his minutes accordingly. Griffin is a 23 year old playing for a team who had something to prove in the regular season. As FWD just showed, when you normalize for minutes, Duncan is every bit as productive as Griffin is. When you factor in how there's more half court basketball in the playoffs, and how the half court game isn't Griffin's strenght, I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect Tim Duncan to be the more productive player in this series.

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Originally Posted by SpurinDallas

To say Duncan is a "borderline star" make you a fucking idiot.

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He was absent from the all star team despite being incredibly popular and respected by everybody. That says it all. Love, Griffin, Aldridge and Zbo (when healthy) are all better at this point.

lol clipper fan

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Comparing regular season numbers between Duncan and Griffin is pretty flawed. Duncan's 36 and spent the year on a team who looks at the regular season as a playoff pre-season and limited his minutes accordingly. Griffin is a 23 year old playing for a team who had something to prove in the regular season. As FWD just showed, when you normalize for minutes, Duncan is every bit as productive as Griffin is. When you factor in how there's more half court basketball in the playoffs, and how the half court game isn't Griffin's strenght, I don't think it's unrealistic at all to expect Tim Duncan to be the more productive player in this series.

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I never said Duncan can't outplay Griffin this series. Griffin has a knee sprain and is in his first playoff run of his career. Duncan is the smarter and more experienced player so it's possible. Griffin also struggles with Duncan's length. That being said it doesn't mean Duncan is the better player.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

He was absent from the all star team despite being incredibly popular and respected by everybody. That says it all. Love, Griffin, Aldridge and Zbo (when healthy) are all better at this point.

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He's a Legend, an active Hall of Famer. For a Clips "fan" to call him a borderline star is just stupid.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Eric Bledsoe has given Tony Parker and the Spurs problems every time he's gotten solid minutes. I think he needs to either be starting at the 2 or be the first man off the bench this series. I think he can wreak serious havoc on your wing players defensively. Point is when CP3 goes to bench the offense struggles to score but the defense picks up significantly.

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How's it going Clipper fan? Congratulations on beating the Grizzlies btw. I didn't think you guys had it in you. :toast

Actually I'm very interested in seeing how Del Negro plans to use Bledsoe for this series. We saw firsthand how tough the Clippers are when they (okay maybe just Mo Williams) get hot and so for that it wouldn't surprise me to see the Spurs get pushed to 6. I'm thinking Spurs in about 5 but the Clips could just as easily steal 2 imo.

Assuming Diaw/Bonner are able to do an adequate job on Griffin though I'm not convinced that the LAC frontcourt is going to hurt us all that much offensively. I think it'll come down to bench play, coaching, and perimeter defense personally and that's where I have mixed emotions.

The Spurs have a slightly better bench than the Clippers and a way way way (no offence) better coach. Thing is, guys like Green have trouble with screens, Neal can't guard anybody, and to me Manu has looked better guarding larger players. Leonard's been good on guys like Rudy Gay but I'm not fully sure what to expect against the Clips. I'm thinking we'll most likely have a better idea after tonight.

Besides Bynum, Tim is hands down the best center in the west I'm not all that impressed with Marc Gasol.

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Originally Posted by SpurinDallas

He's a Legend, an active Hall of Famer. For a Clips "fan" to call him a borderline star is just stupid.

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What's so wrong or stupid about it? The guy is about to turn 37. I consider him a top 10-15 player of all time. One of the greatest bigmen ever. To say RIGHT NOW he's not a top 3 PF isn't a personal insult so stop being so sensitive.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

What's so wrong or stupid about it? The guy is about to turn 37. I consider him a top 10-15 player of all time. One of the greatest bigmen ever. To say RIGHT NOW he's not a top 3 PF isn't a personal insult so stop being so sensitive.

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Of the remaining PF in the playoffs, rank them in your order. I'm curious to see how you think

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Originally Posted by SpurinDallas

Of the remaining PF in the playoffs, rank them in your order. I'm curious to see how you think

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1. Griffin
2. Gasol
3. KG
4. Duncan

In terms of best PF's left in playoffs. Love, Aldridge, Zbo, Smith are all out of the playoffs. I'm going by individually best player for 2011-2012, not current production so far in the playoffs. KG has probably been the best PF overall this year in the playoffs.

BTW the tricky part is Duncan has been playing center for what 8 years now? Pop and Duncan both call TD a center. So is it fair to even call him a PF or compare him to PF's? I'd say he's the best center in this playoffs outside of Bynum.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

1. Griffin
2. Gasol
3. KG
4. Duncan

In terms of best PF's left in playoffs. Love, Aldridge, Zbo, Smith are all out of the playoffs. I'm going by individually best player for 2011-2012, not current production so far in the playoffs. KG has probably been the best PF overall this year in the playoffs.

BTW the tricky part is Duncan has been playing center for what 8 years now? Pop and Duncan both call TD a center. So is it fair to even call him a PF or compare him to PF's? I'd say he's the best center in this playoffs outside of Bynum.

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LOL @ Griffin #1. Guy is benched in clutch time so he won't get put on the FT Line.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

I never said Duncan can't outplay Griffin this series. Griffin has a knee sprain and is in his first playoff run of his career. Duncan is the smarter and more experienced player so it's possible. Griffin also struggles with Duncan's length. That being said it doesn't mean Duncan is the better player.

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Aren't we talking about a playoff series matchup? Because if we're talking about a 7 game (or less) playoff series then the better player here is Duncan. The fact that Duncan can't put up the numbers over a lenghty regular season that Griffin can doesn't make Griffin the better player here where it matters.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

What's so wrong or stupid about it? The guy is about to turn 37. I consider him a top 10-15 player of all time. One of the greatest bigmen ever. To say RIGHT NOW he's not a top 3 PF isn't a personal insult so stop being so sensitive.

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Duncan turned 36 at the beginning of the playoffs, he's not about to turn 37. You just fucking blew your entire argument on this site because of that.

Griffin will NEVER be ANYWHERE in top PFs in the league until he gets a mid-range shot and a reliable post-up game. Griffin excels at alley-oops and dunking off the P&R. He also needs to improve on his defense, we'll see what it's like in the coming series. I'd take Duncan over him in a heart beat right now, as well as Love (if he could learn to play D, he'd be the best big in the game), Randolph and Gasol.

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Originally Posted by SpurinDallas

LOL @ Griffin #1. Guy is benched in clutch time so he won't get put on the FT Line.

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Should of watched the series and you wouldn't be talking out of your ass. Griffin was benched the 4th quarter because his knee locked up on him. He actually hit pretty much all of his clutch free throws against the Grizzlies. Including games 1, 3 and 7 where he hit multiple free throws in the last couple minutes of close games.

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Originally Posted by dougp

Duncan turned 36 at the beginning of the playoffs, he's not about to turn 37. You just fucking blew your entire argument on this site because of that.

Griffin will NEVER be ANYWHERE in top PFs in the league until he gets a mid-range shot and a reliable post-up game. Griffin excels at alley-oops and dunking off the P&R. He also needs to improve on his defense, we'll see what it's like in the coming series. I'd take Duncan over him in a heart beat right now, as well as Love (if he could learn to play D, he'd be the best big in the game), Randolph and Gasol.

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If Duncan is still elite and so much better than Griffin I ask again why wasn't he on the all star team DESPITE being so popular and respected? You're talking out of your ass here champ. Nobody outside of San Antonio considers Duncan a better all around player at this point than Griffin. Better defender, yes. Better player? No.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Aren't we talking about a playoff series matchup? Because if we're talking about a 7 game (or less) playoff series then the better player here is Duncan. The fact that Duncan can't put up the numbers over a lenghty regular season that Griffin can doesn't make Griffin the better player here where it matters.

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We haven't even tipped off game one yet but we'll see who outplays who won't we? Assuming Griffin's knee doesn't bother him too much I have a good feeling you guys will learn a lot about him and find more respect for him. He does A LOT more than dunk.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

If Duncan is still elite and so much better than Griffin I ask again why wasn't he on the all star team DESPITE being so popular and respected? You're talking out of your ass here champ. Nobody outside of San Antonio considers Duncan a better all around player at this point than Griffin. Better defender, yes. Better player? No.

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Pop limited his minutes dumb ass, so all the "experts" could point out that his numbers were down. They conveniently forgot to mention they were down because his minutes were as well.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

If Duncan is still elite and so much better than Griffin I ask again why wasn't he on the all star team DESPITE being so popular and respected? You're talking out of your ass here champ. Nobody outside of San Antonio considers Duncan a better all around player at this point than Griffin. Better defender, yes. Better player? No.

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No disrespect because frankly I haven't watched enough Clipper games to form a proper opinion on Griffin, but the All Star team isn't a good argument imo. Voting tends to be either late or premature and it's mostly based around popularity with fans.

Duncan, imo, is more of a musician's musician if you know what I mean. Plus he's picked up his production this year and the Spurs in general have been flying under the radar. In any case, my impression is that Griffin is talented but lacking in polish and that CP3 is the best player on your team.

I'm going to wait until seeing the series before making any comparisons but I think in the playoffs Duncan will be fantastic while Griffin will be hampered by his knee. We'll find out soon enough though.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

1. Griffin
2. Gasol
3. KG
4. Duncan

In terms of best PF's left in playoffs. Love, Aldridge, Zbo, Smith are all out of the playoffs. I'm going by individually best player for 2011-2012, not current production so far in the playoffs. KG has probably been the best PF overall this year in the playoffs.

BTW the tricky part is Duncan has been playing center for what 8 years now? Pop and Duncan both call TD a center. So is it fair to even call him a PF or compare him to PF's? I'd say he's the best center in this playoffs outside of Bynum.

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Hasn't KG also been playing Center?? And if you are including KG and you are talking individual best player for 2011-2012 then you have to at least put Duncan ahead of KG overall. KG has been playing great in the playoffs, but I think Duncan was better over the course of the season. And in the playoffs Duncan and Griffins numbers are pretty similar. Pretty hard to see Duncan at #4.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

We haven't even tipped off game one yet but we'll see who outplays who won't we? Assuming Griffin's knee doesn't bother him too much I have a good feeling you guys will learn a lot about him and find more respect for him. He does A LOT more than dunk.

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Like bricking 15 foot jumpshots and needlessly burning up a bunch of shot clock staring down defenders while out on the wing? :p:

I don't have a problem with Blake. He's a great player, but his game isn't built for the playoffs and Duncan's game is. Griffin is going to get his sportscenter highlights in this series, but the Spurs are going to have success denying Griffin the ball in the spots he wants it and they're absolutely going to pick and roll him to death.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

Like bricking 15 foot jumpshots and needlessly burning up a bunch of shot clock staring down defenders while out on the wing? :p:

I don't have a problem with Blake. He's a great player, but his game isn't built for the playoffs and Duncan's game is. Griffin is going to get his sportscenter highlights in this series, but the Spurs are going to have success denying Griffin the ball in the spots he wants it and they're absolutely going to pick and roll him to death.

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You're being too hard on Griffin. He's a raw player in his first playoff run. He will get better with a great coach and more experience. Imagine if Pop got his hands on Griffin? Griffin actually has a VERY unique skill set. Ballhandling and playmaking ability of a guard. Quickness of a SF. He needs better coaching and time.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

You're being too hard on Griffin. He's a raw player in his first playoff run. He will get better with a great coach and more experience. Imagine if Pop got his hands on Griffin? Griffin actually has a VERY unique skill set. Ballhandling and playmaking ability of a guard. Quickness of a SF. He needs better coaching and time.

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flop flop city bitch

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Originally Posted by sa_butta

Hasn't KG also been playing Center?? And if you are including KG and you are talking individual best player for 2011-2012 then you have to at least put Duncan ahead of KG overall. KG has been playing great in the playoffs, but I think Duncan was better over the course of the season. And in the playoffs Duncan and Griffins numbers are pretty similar. Pretty hard to see Duncan at #4.

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Correct about KG. So I won't consider TD or KG PF's in this playoff run. Duncan was better during regular season and KG is playing better in the playoffs. In general Duncan always gets it done when it counts but we can't act like he's dominating right now. He's putting up like 14 ppg in the playoffs. Griffin is putting up 19 although his rebounding is way down (think like 7 rpg in playoffs).

That was against the best frontcourt in the NBA with an injury too. Now with 2 days rest on that injury and against a small frontcourt Griffin won't have issues really. Duncan will do well on him but Diaw, Splitter, Blair, Bonner are going to get crushed.

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Originally Posted by Venti Quattro

flop flop city bitch

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibkih7Gv9E8

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

Correct about KG. So I won't consider TD or KG PF's in this playoff run. Duncan was better during regular season and KG is playing better in the playoffs. In general Duncan always gets it done when it counts but we can't act like he's dominating right now. He's putting up like 14 ppg in the playoffs. Griffin is putting up 19 although his rebounding is way down (think like 7 rpg in playoffs).

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I'm going by individually best player for 2011-2012, not current production so far in the playoffs.

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:wtf

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Originally Posted by sa_butta

:wtf

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I listed both after the fact. Griffin= better player in general this year. Last year too.

Stopped reading after Kiki talked about how and why the Spurs and Clippers are similar based strictly on the ability of players at their respective positions.

Chris Paul and Tony Parker are both fantastic players, but they have totally different games. Paul controls the game through pace, and controls the ball for much of the game. Parker runs the team by being a constant scoring threat and relishes the running game.

Comparing Duncan and Griffin is even MORE insane. Griffin is an athletic freak, who does not have a consistent outside game. His defense and rebounding is not based on the same discipline and positioning as Duncan's.

The Clippers, in general, are a poorly coached team that relies on athleticism and Paul's on-court smarts, the Spurs are a highly discipline team that relies on executing their offensive and defensive sets to perfection.

Just an overly poorly reasoned article, and I expect an ex-all star like Vanderwedge to write.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

You're being too hard on Griffin. He's a raw player in his first playoff run. He will get better with a great coach and more experience. Imagine if Pop got his hands on Griffin? Griffin actually has a VERY unique skill set. Ballhandling and playmaking ability of a guard. Quickness of a SF. He needs better coaching and time.

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He'll get better. I agree with that. Had you said "good ballhandling and playmaking ability for a big man" instead of "ballhandling and playmaking ability of a guard" I'd have agreed with that too.

Regardless, all I care about is right here, right now. Using the proverbial check mark system to see which team has an advantage in this playoff series, I'm giving the check mark to Duncan over Griffin.

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Originally Posted by coyotes_geek

He'll get better. I agree with that. Had you said "good ballhandling and playmaking ability for a big man" instead of "ballhandling and playmaking ability of a guard" I'd have agreed with that too.

Regardless, all I care about is right here, right now. Using the proverbial check mark system to see which team has an advantage in this playoff series, I'm giving the check mark to Duncan over Griffin.

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We can agree to disagree, I'm cool with that. I give Spurs a big overall edge but Duncan over Griffin isn't one I can give. Good news is we can find out a bit tonight.

BTW check these clips of Griffin's ballhandling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZIwcvp0eW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9hBjVFaqog

I tried to post a few others but they have been removed by Youtube. I've seen him toy with defenders with his crossovers. I'm excited for you guys to see more this series.

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

We can agree to disagree, I'm cool with that. I give Spurs a big overall edge but Duncan over Griffin isn't one I can give. Good news is we can find out a bit tonight.

BTW check these clips of Griffin's ballhandling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZIwcvp0eW0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9hBjVFaqog

I tried to post a few others but they have been removed by Youtube. I've seen him toy with defenders with his crossovers. I'm excited for you guys to see more this series.

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Griffin is not exactly at 100% right now. Is it not possible that they could just cancel each other out posting similar numbers?

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Originally Posted by Clippersfan86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ibkih7Gv9E8

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:lol Flop City bitch

Griffin averaged 22, 13 and 4 on 61 percent shooting vs the Spurs this year. If anything stops him it will be his injury.