Potential Spurs-Heat Trade

Rumor has it that Miami might be trying to trade their first round pick (#27 overall) b/c they are targeting Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Kaman, Lamar Odom, and/or Brandon Roy to sign MLE's to make a run at another title. And, there's been talk about the Spurs wanting to trade into the first round. Sounds like a perfect deal. We give em our 2nd rounder and maybe even Blair and we get their pick and take the best big man available. What do yall think? I think it's easily worth it.

We're not trading with the Heat. No thanks.

shittest trade imaginable. They should deny it just to make a title run harder for them

Most if not all the names mentioned wouldn't be obtained through a trade...no way to turn it down but you can bet theyll sign another big name fa(vet) this summer- Steve Nash with the heat? Yikes.

Why the fuck would the Spurs trade their pick AND Blair for a lame ass 27th pick who is 95% likely to be worse than Blair?

There's not going to be much better guys at 27 than in the 2nd round. Anyone good you get in the 2nd round are people the other teams don't want (literally, because they all have to pass on them at least once if not twice first).

The 27th pick is basically a 2nd round pick anyway. . .so there's no point in trading up to that shitty draft slot.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

Why the fuck would the Spurs trade their pick AND Blair for a lame ass 27th pick who is 95% likely to be worse than Blair?

There's not going to be much better guys at 27 than in the 2nd round. Anyone good you get in the 2nd round are people the other teams don't want (literally, because they all have to pass on them at least once if not twice first).

The 27th pick is basically a 2nd round pick anyway. . .so there's no point in trading up to that shitty draft slot.

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Either your a troll or fucking idiot. There's plenty of prospects to be had in this draft. Be awesome if it happend if not life goes on.

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Originally Posted by SamoanTD

Either your a troll or fucking idiot. There's plenty of prospects to be had in this draft. Be awesome if it happend if not life goes on.

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If there's so many great prospects then it won't matter if we trade one pick AND a servicable bench guy just to get a slightly higher pick for what would be a gamble anyway.

You are essentially defending this similar scenerio to point out how stupid your logic is:


Let's say we went to the gas station to get some snacks before the game. I buy some doritos, a coke, and a $5 lottery ticket. You buy some pringles, a dr pepper, and a $3 lottery ticket.

You look over at my ticket and say, damn dude, I wish I got that one, mine has a slightly less chance of a payout.

So you offer me your chips and your coke to trade tickets. I say sure, and we trade. We scratch them off, and both are losers.

Now we both have two useless pieces of cardboard, only I have a bag of chips, a can of pringles, and two sodas while you're sitting there with nothing but your dick in your hand and an empty stomach.


Best case realistic scenerio, you get a "free ticket" with your gamble. But the odds of me getting a free ticket are pretty much exactly the same. And shit, maybe you even win $6-8. But I could too, just barely less odds.

In other words, who gives a shit? Keep the chips and soda. It's a stupid trade. If you made it, the only idiot here would be you.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

If there's so many great prospects then it won't matter if we trade one pick AND a servicable bench guy just to get a slightly higher pick for what would be a gamble anyway.

You are essentially defending this similar scenerio to point out how stupid your logic is:


Let's say we went to the gas station to get some snacks before the game. I buy some doritos, a coke, and a $5 lottery ticket. You buy some pringles, a dr pepper, and a $3 lottery ticket.

You look over at my ticket and say, damn dude, I wish I got that one, mine has a slightly less chance of a payout.

So you offer me your chips and your coke to trade tickets. I say sure, and we trade. We scratch them off, and both are losers.

Now we both have two useless pieces of cardboard, only I have a bag of chips, a can of pringles, and two sodas while you're sitting there with nothing but your dick in your hand and an empty stomach.


Best case realistic scenerio, you get a "free ticket" with your gamble. But the odds of me getting a free ticket are pretty much exactly the same. And shit, maybe you even win $6-8. But I could too, just barely less odds.

In other words, who gives a shit? Keep the chips and soda. It's a stupid trade. If you made it, the only idiot here would be you.

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Your scenario breaks down in the real world. SA won't agree to a trade until they know the guy they want is there. You agree to the pieces and parts in advance, but you don't pull the trigger until Miami is on the clock and you know the guy you want has fallen to #27. It's like I get to look at your scratch off after you scratch it, and then decide to trade or not. RC would then call Miami's draft room and say "It's on. Pick this dude".

First round picks are never traded blind on draft night. In fact, the actual pick is almost never traded on draft night. Team A drafts the player, and then trades the rights to that player to team B. It's a dodge to get around a rule that you cannot trade your first round pick in consecutive years. It's called the Stepien rule, named after the former Cavs owner from the early 80s who constantly traded his first rounders for broken down vets.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

If there's so many great prospects then it won't matter if we trade one pick AND a servicable bench guy just to get a slightly higher pick for what would be a gamble anyway.

You are essentially defending this similar scenerio to point out how stupid your logic is:


Let's say we went to the gas station to get some snacks before the game. I buy some doritos, a coke, and a $5 lottery ticket. You buy some pringles, a dr pepper, and a $3 lottery ticket.

You look over at my ticket and say, damn dude, I wish I got that one, mine has a slightly less chance of a payout.

So you offer me your chips and your coke to trade tickets. I say sure, and we trade. We scratch them off, and both are losers.

Now we both have two useless pieces of cardboard, only I have a bag of chips, a can of pringles, and two sodas while you're sitting there with nothing but your dick in your hand and an empty stomach.


Best case realistic scenerio, you get a "free ticket" with your gamble. But the odds of me getting a free ticket are pretty much exactly the same. And shit, maybe you even win $6-8. But I could too, just barely less odds.

In other words, who gives a shit? Keep the chips and soda. It's a stupid trade. If you made it, the only idiot here would be you.

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I trust the spurs FO when it comes to the draft I see it like this the higher the pick it is for the spurs the better. Spurs track record in the draft is pretty damn good and giving up players like Blair or bonner to get a better piece on this team seems good to me. Especially our frontline you can't say that you would love anOther year of bonner you wouldn't take the chance at all?

We should trade Tony, Manu, Splitter and Leonard for their 27th pick! Do it Pop! The 27th pick pretty much gets us the LO for the next 8 years!

Lets say we both go to the gas station. I buy a $5 lotto ticket, bag of doritos a Pepsi and some spicy peanuts. You buy a Dr. Pepper a bag of funyuns and a $2 lotto ticket. We go outside, I tell you to gfy because you're a dumbass piece of shit and I get in my car and leave.
Worst case scenario, I have to kick your ass.

I think Miami would do that deal. If they did I'd hope we could snatch Pittman or Cole in the deal as well (despite being overweight Pittman has surprisingly good activity at guarding the p&r, better than any big on the spurs at least)

Personally I'd hope we could at least get JaJuan Johnson and the 22nd pick for Blair and Neal. Not sure if Ainge would pull the trigger though.. Neal and Blair seem like players that would blossom in doc's/rondo's system.

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Originally Posted by BatManu20

Rumor has it that Miami might be trying to trade their first round pick (#27 overall) b/c they are targeting Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Kaman, Lamar Odom, and/or Brandon Roy to sign MLE's to make a run at another title. And, there's been talk about the Spurs wanting to trade into the first round. Sounds like a perfect deal. We give em our 2nd rounder and maybe even Blair and we get their pick and take the best big man available. What do yall think? I think it's easily worth it.

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there is no relationship btw these 2 things.

This is turning out a way better thread than I expected. :lol

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Originally Posted by Prime Time

I think Miami would do that deal. If they did I'd hope we could snatch Pittman or Cole in the deal as well (despite being overweight Pittman has surprisingly good activity at guarding the p&r, better than any big on the spurs at least)

Personally I'd hope we could at least get JaJuan Johnson and the 22nd pick for Blair and Neal. Not sure if Ainge would pull the trigger though.. Neal and Blair seem like players that would blossom in doc's/rondo's system.

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They won't give up Cole or Pittman, because they are cheap rotation pieces, something Miami desperately needs around their super expensive star power trio.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

They won't give up Cole or Pittman, because they are cheap rotation pieces, something Miami desperately needs around their super expensive star power trio.

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Why would they need Pittman if they're getting Blair? (in this scenario) does Pat realize 6'6 Centers don't cut it? :(

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Originally Posted by CGD

there is no relationship btw these 2 things.

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Sure there is. A pick requires at least a two year guaranteed salary outlay for a player who probably won't help them for a couple of years. Miami is at or maybe over the tax now, and their big three salaries will only grow over the next few years. They need players who can help now, not extra salary dollars for developmental players.

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Originally Posted by Prime Time

Why would they need Pittman if they're getting Blair? (in this scenario) does Pat realize 6'6 Centers don't cut it? :(

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Did you see their dearth of big men in the rotation this year? They need Blair AND Pittman.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

Did you see their dearth of big men in the rotation this year? They need Blair AND Pittman.

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Fair enough :tu

Indiana is the most realistic trading partner they need a backup center, send them Splitter or possibly trade Splitter for one of the C's 1st round picks, as.they're also in need of a center.

I'd love to get Wroten at 27 if he's still there. While not at a position of need, Quincy Miller would be another good gamble if his slide continues. Or Marquis Teague. There's still going to be some talent there late in the first, and I'd love to see the Spurs trade in if Miami's just trying to slash salary.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

If there's so many great prospects then it won't matter if we trade one pick AND a servicable bench guy just to get a slightly higher pick for what would be a gamble anyway.

You are essentially defending this similar scenerio to point out how stupid your logic is:


Let's say we went to the gas station to get some snacks before the game. I buy some doritos, a coke, and a $5 lottery ticket. You buy some pringles, a dr pepper, and a $3 lottery ticket.

You look over at my ticket and say, damn dude, I wish I got that one, mine has a slightly less chance of a payout.

So you offer me your chips and your coke to trade tickets. I say sure, and we trade. We scratch them off, and both are losers.

Now we both have two useless pieces of cardboard, only I have a bag of chips, a can of pringles, and two sodas while you're sitting there with nothing but your dick in your hand and an empty stomach.


Best case realistic scenerio, you get a "free ticket" with your gamble. But the odds of me getting a free ticket are pretty much exactly the same. And shit, maybe you even win $6-8. But I could too, just barely less odds.

In other words, who gives a shit? Keep the chips and soda. It's a stupid trade. If you made it, the only idiot here would be you.

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Pick #27 is only slightly higher than pick #59?

Nash with the Heat would be a mistake. He cannot play defense, and the Heat are a defensive team. He would be a weakness. Sure he can dish and score, but the Heat win by getting stops. They have enough scoring.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

Why the fuck would the Spurs trade their pick AND Blair for a lame ass 27th pick who is 95% likely to be worse than Blair?

There's not going to be much better guys at 27 than in the 2nd round. Anyone good you get in the 2nd round are people the other teams don't want (literally, because they all have to pass on them at least once if not twice first).

The 27th pick is basically a 2nd round pick anyway. . .so there's no point in trading up to that shitty draft slot.

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Teams don't pass on picks. They target certain positions and roles. They don't look at a PG and say "nah" when they need a forward.

There's plenty good to be had at 27.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

We're not trading with the Heat. No thanks.

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While its entirely not up to you, i should hope the fo agrees. I understand trading into the first round and would be happy to see it for the right deal, the 27th pick is hardly appealing. Plus helping the heat sounds like crap

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Originally Posted by BatManu20

Rumor has it that Miami might be trying to trade their first round pick (#27 overall) b/c they are targeting Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Grant Hill, Jermaine O'Neal, Chris Kaman, Lamar Odom, and/or Brandon Roy to sign MLE's to make a run at another title. And, there's been talk about the Spurs wanting to trade into the first round. Sounds like a perfect deal. We give em our 2nd rounder and maybe even Blair and we get their pick and take the best big man available. What do yall think? I think it's easily worth it.

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Well the Heat have around $76-77 million in salary next season, plus a $1 player option for Turiaf. So the most they will have will be the Mini-MLE which I believe is $3 million, max of 3 years or something. Beyond that I believe they can only offer the league minimum, though if Bruno is around he could probably correct me.

Either way, not sure getting rid of their pick helps them get any of those players unless its to free up a roster spot. If those free agents are going to play for the Heat they are either playing for peanuts and a ring, or they are the one getting signed to the mini-MLE.

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Originally Posted by DMC

Nash with the Heat would be a mistake. He cannot play defense, and the Heat are a defensive team. He would be a weakness. Sure he can dish and score, but the Heat win by getting stops. They have enough scoring.

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That and you already have two ball-dominant players, adding a third is only going to further complicate their offense. Its not as if Wade or Lebron are spot-up shooters. And Nash isn't going to Miami to play off the bench.

The Dr Pepper would be the deal breaker.

with blair the heats gonna be scaaarrrry gooooood...im not kidding either blairs a pick up garbage and put it in the trashcan kinda guy with his energy the heat would be dammmmn scary... they would have two freight trains on that team... dont forget blairs been our starter throougout most of our season and showed success

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Originally Posted by SamoanTD

I trust the spurs FO when it comes to the draft I see it like this the higher the pick it is for the spurs the better. Spurs track record in the draft is pretty damn good and giving up players like Blair or bonner to get a better piece on this team seems good to me. Especially our frontline you can't say that you would love anOther year of bonner you wouldn't take the chance at all?

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I trust them too. . .which is why I trust they wouldn't trade Blair AND a pick for a slightly better, and also just as useless pick.

Their good track record doesn't mean they should throw Blair away for nothing when they can get MUCH better than what you think they can for him. Blair is an asset even though he's not that well-liked around here sometimes. If we had real centers, Blair would be a really solid backup PF to have around. Not many teams have a backup PF that's capable of coming in and getting 10 boards and can score too. He's just sort of ostrisized here because we're using him as a center. He's a valuble piece, at least in the regular season. . .and I don't discount his contributions all year just because he can't guard Zach Randolph in the playoffs. It'd be nice if he could, but helping us get the top seed is as valuble as someone who doesn't help us get the top seed but can sort of guard in the post in the playoffs. Spurs need HCA to win. Most teams do.


You said Blair, not Bonner. If you said 2nd round pick and Bonner for a late first rounder, I would've agreed. Blair is just more valuble, and that proposed trade seemed like a ripoff. Blair alone should garner a decent late first round pick imo. We shouldn't have to throw in a 2nd rounder too. But we're not gonna get a 15th pick for him like we did with Hill. Hill was a lot better than Blair. A pick + Blair might get us an 18-20 or so though. . .not a 28-30. Blair is better than most late first round picks end up being.

I'd be happy to dump Bonner and our pick for a late 1st. No one's gonna make that deal though since Bonner's getting overpaid and can't really do much besides shoot wide open threes. Bonner is basically Brian Scalabrine except he can shoot over 40% from three. That's the only reason Bonner even has a job. We could've just kept Steve Novak for a cheaper price tbh. Same shit. . .so I doubt many t eams are gonna be interested. I just think Blair AND a pick can get us more than a mere late 1st rounder. Just seems like a waste of a good asset.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Pick #27 is only slightly higher than pick #59?

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I didn't realize our pick was 59th. In that case, it's not even a trade asset. Might's well just keep it and stash some foreign player for 2 years from now like we always do. There's no reason to throw it in because it will sweeten a Blair deal by maybe 3-5% tops. I doubt it makes or breaks anything. Most teams cannot draft well that late, therefore it's not looked upon as a big asset.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

Your scenario breaks down in the real world. SA won't agree to a trade until they know the guy they want is there. You agree to the pieces and parts in advance, but you don't pull the trigger until Miami is on the clock and you know the guy you want has fallen to #27. It's like I get to look at your scratch off after you scratch it, and then decide to trade or not. RC would then call Miami's draft room and say "It's on. Pick this dude".

First round picks are never traded blind on draft night. In fact, the actual pick is almost never traded on draft night. Team A drafts the player, and then trades the rights to that player to team B. It's a dodge to get around a rule that you cannot trade your first round pick in consecutive years. It's called the Stepien rule, named after the former Cavs owner from the early 80s who constantly traded his first rounders for broken down vets.

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You're splitting hairs. I realize this is basically a pointless post since we're arguing about nothing here, but since I don't like to shy away from being told I've given a bad analogy when I didn't, I'll reply. My scenerio doesn't break down for the following reasons:

You're saying my analogy doesn't apply because you're linking the lottery card results with who's available in the draft. That is not what my analogy was suggesting.

Aspects of the analogy:

The chips and soda = Blair

The lottery cards = the draft slots (or the draft picks if you want to be picky. It's the same difference)

The lottery card results = how said draftees flesh out.


You're claiming:

chips and soda = Blair

lottery cards = draft picks

lottery results = Spurs have a Delorian time machine that Doctor Emitt Brown invented, and traveled into the future with his dog Einstein to know exactly how said draft picks will pan out and which will be better for the franchise. So whichever they pick, they gauranteed made the best choice of the two.

See where you're confused?


You can draft a guy at 27, and maybe he fleshes out to be a good player. Or maybe he's the next Corey Joseph. Aka worst player on the team.

You can draft a guy at 59 and stash him, and maybe he's useless later. . .or maybe he's the next Manu Ginobili, Luis Scola, or whatever.


So you can't claim that you know the results of the lottery before you play it. The Spurs don't know how those players are going to pan out before drafting them. They can just know that they're available to be drafted, and they like what they've seen out of them.

I'd rather draft and stash a potential Ginobili (or Splitter/Scrola, whatever) or someone half as good for use 2-4 years down the road than hope Corey Joseph pans out at the cost of Blair and that draft and stash pick.

In other words, I believe it's more beneficial for the team to keep Blair and the late rounder than to trade Blair and the late rounder for another failure like Joseph or some kind of Keith Bogans type end of bench player.


Now, like I said earlier, if we're talking like a 18th pick in the first round. . .then sure, I'd be willing to part with Blair. But 27? Nothing decent is going to be left broseph, unless there's some magical genius foreign player whom everyone has an eye on, and they just want to jump up to the first round to stash him before anyone else tries to get him.