IMHO....... James Anderson = Marcus Denmon

I mean, what is the difference? Everytime the Spurs draft a 6'-5" american SG it just seems to never workout. Someone please tell me the last time it did..........

Just sayin, this years draft selection seems just like the year we drafted JA.

:depressed

We will be looking to unload Denmon the same as we are Anderson....... book it.

he was drafted with the 59th pick, wgaf

Terrible comparison, tbh.

The difference is Marcus is a tweener. He can handle the ball as well as Gary Neal can, and can create for himself an others. Hes not afraid to take the big shot and
Will attack the basket as well. At one point in time this season he was a legit contender for Player Of The Year

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Terrible comparison, tbh.

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How so? Both were lauded about their scoring and shooting. Both either led their teams or conference in scoring. But, the size thing was an issue with both. So, you think Marcus will produce more than Anderson has???

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Originally Posted by djohn14

The difference is Marcus is a tweener. He can handle the ball as well as Gary Neal can, and can create for himself an others.

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This is a good thing?

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Originally Posted by lebomb

How so? Both were lauded about their scoring and shooting. Both either led their teams or conference in scoring. But, the size thing was an issue with both. So, you think Marcus will produce more than Anderson has???

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OMG, and they're both black!!

Did you even watch either player play college ball?

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Originally Posted by lebomb

How so? Both were lauded about their scoring and shooting. Both either led their teams or conference in scoring. But, the size thing was an issue with both. So, you think Marcus will produce more than Anderson has???

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Anderson was picked higher than anyone the Spurs had picked after Tim Duncan. He doesn't have size issues, he just had a really bad injury, the type of injury that has destroyed many careers. He had huge potential to be a legit NBA player and perhaps still does.

Denmon is a 59th pick wildcard, his chances of ever playing an NBA game are miniscule anyway. Think Jack McClinton but maybe with a bit better chances to make it.

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Originally Posted by lebomb

How so? Both were lauded about their scoring and shooting. Both either led their teams or conference in scoring. But, the size thing was an issue with both. So, you think Marcus will produce more than Anderson has???

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How has size ever been an issue with James Anderson? Hes 6'6. Last I checked that was pretty much prototypical size for a SG.

Marcus Denmon, at 6'3, on the other hand is a little short.

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Originally Posted by VBM

This is a good thing?

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If we dont use him as the point it is. Hes much quicker than Neal, so if we work on his ball handling and can have a 2 guard that can put it on the floor that would be real nice. And also hes not like most shooters who are just a spot up shooter or are just better shooting off the dribble, he can do both

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Originally Posted by VBM

This is a good thing?

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Well, it's better than Beno at least.

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Originally Posted by djohn14

The difference is Marcus is a tweener. He can handle the ball as well as Gary Neal can, and can create for himself an others. Hes not afraid to take the big shot and
Will attack the basket as well. At one point in time this season he was a legit contender for Player Of The Year

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+1. Size, Speed, Balls. The rest can be taught.

*Edits
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/players/81177
Didn't realize he was on the 2/15 upset.

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Originally Posted by donjuansdaddy

I agree Denmon is a better ball handler, creator, and defender than James Anderson. Denmon does draw alot of comparison to Neal, but factor in he is quicker, a better passer, and better defender as well.

Yeah he is a tweener. But seriously, alot of teams are having success with these 6'3"-6'5" tweener SG's. And unlike McClinton, Denmon isn't coming off a serious knee injury and he is about two inches taller.

I don't think the guy is going to be an All-Star, but I think he is a guy that can put up 10ppg off the bench for the Spurs in the coming years. That is a win for the Spurs when you consider he was the 2nd to last pick.

Funny last night, ESPN showed mostly Spurs players when showing 2nd round player that have had success in the NBA over the past few drafts. Spurs know how to pick them better than any other team.

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Exactly

It's as if Spursfans expect the next Manu with whoever we draft in the second round

Even then our second rounders have been better than most. Last season's team had TWO 2009 second rounders starting, and a third filling out the rotation.

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Originally Posted by racm

Exactly

It's as if Spursfans expect the next Manu with whoever we draft in the second round

Even then our second rounders have been better than most. Last season's team had TWO 2009 second rounders starting, and a third filling out the rotation.

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How about that. Blair(37), Green(46), and Mills(55). De Colo(53) could join them next season.

Jack McClinton 2.0

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

How about that. Blair(37), Green(46), and Mills(55). De Colo(53) could join them next season.

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And the guys who took unspectacular guys late in the first round of that draft will gape in awe as the Spurs do another deep playoff run with those guys. :hat

The problem is expecting anything out of a 59th pick.

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Originally Posted by stxspurs

The problem is expecting anything out of a 59th pick.

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Most guys in the range don't play a lick in the NBA even.

Jack McClinton is a better comparison for what it will mean to the team, which means not much. Would have rather spun the dial on a young euro.

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Originally Posted by racm

Most guys in the range don't play a lick in the NBA even.

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Yup...just cuz Manu turned out awesome we should think others will. No expectations then we are pleasantly suprised when they do turn out ok. Only way we get better is thru trade.

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Originally Posted by djohn14

The difference is Marcus is a tweener. He can handle the ball as well as Gary Neal can, and can create for himself an others. Hes not afraid to take the big shot and
Will attack the basket as well. At one point in time this season he was a legit contender for Player Of The Year

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Gary Neal can handle the ball? :lmao

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Originally Posted by djohn14

The difference is Marcus is a tweener. He can handle the ball as well as Gary Neal can, and can create for himself an others. Hes not afraid to take the big shot and
Will attack the basket as well. At one point in time this season he was a legit contender for Player Of The Year

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Haha Gary couldn't even dribble the ball without turning it over..

bnsf

Yea I don't understand why they have such a fascination with guards we already have enough of those this team needs a bigman.

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Originally Posted by Duncan2177

Yea I don't understand why they have such a fascination with guards we already have enough of those this team needs a bigman.

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Why on Earth didn't they draft a skilled, athletic big man with a massive wingspan and a great motor at #59?

Big fucking deal. Might as well be complaining about their towel boy. It's not like the Spurs pissed away a high draft pick and there are no other Manu's coming through the door for deep draft tbh.

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Originally Posted by donjuansdaddy

I agree Denmon is a better ball handler, creator, and defender than James Anderson. Denmon does draw alot of comparison to Neal, but factor in he is quicker, a better passer, and better defender as well.

Yeah he is a tweener. But seriously, alot of teams are having success with these 6'3"-6'5" tweener SG's. And unlike McClinton, Denmon isn't coming off a serious knee injury and he is about two inches taller.

I don't think the guy is going to be an All-Star, but I think he is a guy that can put up 10ppg off the bench for the Spurs in the coming years. That is a win for the Spurs when you consider he was the 2nd to last pick.

Funny last night, ESPN showed mostly Spurs players when showing 2nd round player that have had success in the NBA over the past few drafts. Spurs know how to pick them better than any other team.

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Can you name one? Blazers flamed out as soon as they got Crawford. Kings have underachieved for 2 straight years with Evans. Monta Ellis took the Warriors and subsequently the Bucks nowhere. . . Mayo is considered to be a bust and got replaced with a regular PG and defensive SG.

. . .and I'm naming the star/superstar tweeners.

As for the players they showed "us" draft. . .we didn't actually draft Danny Green. . . and Blair was 37th, not 59th. Our last good real late pick was Ginobili 15 years ago. Everyone else has already caught on and were draft and stashing up a storm this year. We won't get any more gems in the late 50's. The whole NBA is gambling on draft and stashes now.

Denmon's just another Austin Toros' star.

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Originally Posted by VBM

This is a good thing?

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I was just about to say just that man lol.

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Originally Posted by lebomb

How so? Both were lauded about their scoring and shooting. Both either led their teams or conference in scoring. But, the size thing was an issue with both. So, you think Marcus will produce more than Anderson has???

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You understand that Anderson flopped because of that foot surgery, right? Fifth metatarsal repair is often a career damager, if not a career killer.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

Can you name one? Blazers flamed out as soon as they got Crawford. Kings have underachieved for 2 straight years with Evans. Monta Ellis took the Warriors and subsequently the Bucks nowhere. . . Mayo is considered to be a bust and got replaced with a regular PG and defensive SG.

. . .and I'm naming the star/superstar tweeners.

As for the players they showed "us" draft. . .we didn't actually draft Danny Green. . . and Blair was 37th, not 59th. Our last good real late pick was Ginobili 15 years ago. Everyone else has already caught on and were draft and stashing up a storm this year. We won't get any more gems in the late 50's. The whole NBA is gambling on draft and stashes now.

Denmon's just another Austin Toros' star.

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OJ Mayo, 6'4"
Dwayne Wade 6'4"
Gilbert Arenas, pre-knee injury 6'4"
Leandro Barbosa 6'3"
Keyon Dooling 6'3"
Eric Gordon 6'3"
Ben Gordon 6'3"

All of those guys proved that even if you are undersized, if you can shoot the rock and attack the basket, you can make a place for yourself in this league. I'm not sure what else you are expecting at #59, but that's about the ceiling. Perhaps your expectations need an adjustment.

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Originally Posted by stxspurs

The problem is expecting anything out of a 59th pick.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

OJ Mayo, 6'4"
Dwayne Wade 6'4"
Gilbert Arenas, pre-knee injury 6'4"
Leandro Barbosa 6'3"
Keyon Dooling 6'3"
Eric Gordon 6'3"
Ben Gordon 6'3"

All of those guys proved that even if you are undersized, if you can shoot the rock and attack the basket, you can make a place for yourself in this league. I'm not sure what else you are expecting at #59, but that's about the ceiling. Perhaps your expectations need an adjustment.

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:tu

We all know that our draft picks would be De Colo and I hope to God we land Lobrek.

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Originally Posted by donjuansdaddy

So I guess it goes without saying that he is a better ball handler than Neal.

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I hope for our sake that he is....

Since most of us haven't really seen this guy play, I don't know how we can evaluate him better than the coaches who drafted him.

We have seen Anderson for a couple of seasons, and since his injury I don't think he has been particularly great as a scorer or adequate as a defender.

At some point in time, you let a player go who hasn't performed up to expectations.

Although both were great scorers in the Big 12, I suspect from Denmon's stats on steals and turnovers that Denmon may be a better defender and ball handler than Anderson was when coming into the League as a rookie.

Drafting Denmon at 59th really doesn't have anything to do with Anderson IMO. I suspect at that point the coaches were drafting for best player available in their opinion. There are successful SGs at 6'3" in the league so let's hope he works out, but nobody should be surprised if a 59th pick doesn't make the team.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Since most of us haven't really seen this guy play, I don't know how we can evaluate him better than the coaches who drafted him.

We have seen Anderson for a couple of seasons, and since his injury I don't think he has been particularly great as a scorer or adequate as a defender.

At some point in time, you let a player go who hasn't performed up to expectations.

Although both were great scorers in the Big 12, I suspect from Denmon's stats on steals and turnovers that Denmon may be a better defender and ball handler than Anderson was when coming into the League as a rookie.

Drafting Denmon at 59th really doesn't have anything to do with Anderson IMO. I suspect at that point the coaches were drafting for best player available in their opinion. There are successful SGs at 6'3" in the league so let's hope he works out, but nobody should be surprised if a 59th pick doesn't make the team.

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One thing I noticed in the second round was that so many draft and stash international prospects were taken, in the hopes they'd become the next Manu or Dragic or (insert successful international player taken in the second round here), while in contrast the Spurs went with a guy who put up good stats in a small conference and ranked 11th in win shares.

Kawhi Leonard is also a darling of the WoW folk, and look at how he turned out.

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Originally Posted by Duncan2177

Yea I don't understand why they have such a fascination with guards we already have enough of those this team needs a bigman.

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I agree we need a backup pg or big and we get a wing where we have the most depth.

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Originally Posted by therealtruth

I agree we need a backup pg or big and we get a wing where we have the most depth.

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Best player available.

Say that early first round picks grade out in the high 90s, late ones in the low 90s, early seconds in the high 80s and late seconds in the low 80s. You don't pick a center who is an 80 at pick #59 if there is a SG who grades out as an 85 or an 88.

At 59 you don't have the luxury of drafting for need. You pick BPA. Period. Because if you forgo the BPA routine and "reach" at 59 then you're basically getting a guy with a 0% chance of making the team. At least Denmon has a slight chance of actually succeeding.

Don't even insult James Anderson with this comparison for fuck sakes....

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

OJ Mayo, 6'4"
Dwayne Wade 6'4"
Gilbert Arenas, pre-knee injury 6'4"
Leandro Barbosa 6'3"
Keyon Dooling 6'3"
Eric Gordon 6'3"
Ben Gordon 6'3"

All of those guys proved that even if you are undersized, if you can shoot the rock and attack the basket, you can make a place for yourself in this league. I'm not sure what else you are expecting at #59, but that's about the ceiling. Perhaps your expectations need an adjustment.

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You didn't answer my question.

I asked him to name TEAMS who had success with tweeners.

Not to rattle off a list of sub 6'5 SGs with halfway decent stats.


Mayo is considered to be a bust, and was eventually benched in favor of Conley. As soon as they did that, the Grizzlies "got good". Read Grizzlies forums, you'd know their fans have been down on Mayo for years. One of the popular Grizzlies threads are "what can we get for Mayo?".

Wade's not a tweener. Being a quarter of an inch under 6'5" doesn't = tweener.

Arenas is a poor example because any team he's on always struggles. What have the Wizards ever done besides sink into oblivion because of him? The best he's done is get to barely .500 during a time the eastern conference was incredibly weak. He then struggled with injury for years and eventually his very name became more toxic than Allen Iverson's.

Barbosa. Bench guy. Barbosa is a real stretch to give credit to team success. He's about the same as Gary Neal at this point (and last several years). Though I'll admit, over 5-6 years ago, he was useful with the Suns. But that's 5+ years ago, not now.

Dooling. Wut? He's mediocre. Never averaged 10 points or only cracked more than 2.5 assists twice in his 12 year career.

Eric Gordon: Again, I asked for TEAMS that had success with "tweeners". The Clippers sucked with Eric Gordon, and "got good" once they traded him. FYI, the team he got traded to won the draft lottery this year. Not a good example.

Ben Gordon: A no defense SG who's earned only 68 wins in the last three seasons combined. The Bulls were just .500 with Gordon, (and well under it the year before), and suddenly "got good" once he was dumped. Bulls lead the NBA in wins the last 2 years. Again, another not very good example.


I asked for teams that had sucess with tweeners, not to "list under 6'5" SGs who had decent stats".

So of everyone you listed, none of them fit what I was asking for. . .Wade is the only player on your list who even has success now, yet he's only had success when his team signed a ton of excellent free agents to assist him (Shaq, Payton, Walker, etc the first time, Bosh and LeBron this time). Though besides, I don't even consider Wade a "tweener" since he's 6'4 3/4th". A quarter inch under 6'5" doesn't make him a "tweener". The average height for starting SGs isn't even above 6'5" right now. So I don't see how 6'4 3/4ths" = tweener.


Long story short, tweeners tend to not be successful. At the very least, there aren't "a lot of teams having success with them", because technically 0 do right now. The best place for a tweener is getting 15 mins off the bench for scoring punch. And even those guys tend to not be on successful teams, but rather play for losing teams with an overpaid salary to sell tickets in dead end cities as an "exciting scorer".

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Originally Posted by lebomb

I mean, what is the difference? Everytime the Spurs draft a 6'-5" american SG it just seems to never workout. Someone please tell me the last time it did..........

Just sayin, this years draft selection seems just like the year we drafted JA.

:depressed

We will be looking to unload Denmon the same as we are Anderson....... book it.

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6'5..? Denmon's 6'2.5, not even close. And they're going to try and make him a backup PG, not SG. He's a much better ball handler than James Anderson, wh is really a one trick pony at this point. And it was the 2nd to last pick in the draft... people need to quit bitching about this.

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Originally Posted by BatManu20

6'5..? Denmon's 6'2.5, not even close. And they're going to try and make him a backup PG, not SG. He's a much better ball handler than James Anderson, wh is really a one trick pony at this point. And it was the 2nd to last pick in the draft... people need to quit bitching about this.

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Spursfan being spoiled tbh

Getting a guy like Manu in the second round colors their expectations

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

You didn't answer my question.

I asked him to name TEAMS who had success with tweeners.

Not to rattle off a list of sub 6'5 SGs with halfway decent stats.


Mayo is considered to be a bust, and was eventually benched in favor of Conley. As soon as they did that, the Grizzlies "got good". Read Grizzlies forums, you'd know their fans have been down on Mayo for years. One of the popular Grizzlies threads are "what can we get for Mayo?".

Wade's not a tweener. Being a quarter of an inch under 6'5" doesn't = tweener.

Arenas is a poor example because any team he's on always struggles. What have the Wizards ever done besides sink into oblivion because of him? The best he's done is get to barely .500 during a time the eastern conference was incredibly weak. He then struggled with injury for years and eventually his very name became more toxic than Allen Iverson's.

Barbosa. Bench guy. Barbosa is a real stretch to give credit to team success. He's about the same as Gary Neal at this point (and last several years). Though I'll admit, over 5-6 years ago, he was useful with the Suns. But that's 5+ years ago, not now.

Dooling. Wut? He's mediocre. Never averaged 10 points or only cracked more than 2.5 assists twice in his 12 year career.

Eric Gordon: Again, I asked for TEAMS that had success with "tweeners". The Clippers sucked with Eric Gordon, and "got good" once they traded him. FYI, the team he got traded to won the draft lottery this year. Not a good example.

Ben Gordon: A no defense SG who's earned only 68 wins in the last three seasons combined. The Bulls were just .500 with Gordon, (and well under it the year before), and suddenly "got good" once he was dumped. Bulls lead the NBA in wins the last 2 years. Again, another not very good example.


I asked for teams that had sucess with tweeners, not to "list under 6'5" SGs who had decent stats".

So of everyone you listed, none of them fit what I was asking for. . .Wade is the only player on your list who even has success now, yet he's only had success when his team signed a ton of excellent free agents to assist him (Shaq, Payton, Walker, etc the first time, Bosh and LeBron this time). Though besides, I don't even consider Wade a "tweener" since he's 6'4 3/4th". A quarter inch under 6'5" doesn't make him a "tweener". The average height for starting SGs isn't even above 6'5" right now. So I don't see how 6'4 3/4ths" = tweener.


Long story short, tweeners tend to not be successful. At the very least, there aren't "a lot of teams having success with them", because technically 0 do right now. The best place for a tweener is getting 15 mins off the bench for scoring punch. And even those guys tend to not be on successful teams, but rather play for losing teams with an overpaid salary to sell tickets in dead end cities as an "exciting scorer".

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No one is expecting or asking Denmon to be a star to be successful for the team. The team will be successful (or not) based on their stars. No, his role, in theory like Neal, would be to be a player off the bench who can come in and stand on the outside and hit open 3s. And if unlike Neal he can succeed as PG impostor, then even better.

Denmon would be be lucky to get the kind of minutes James got this year.

He'll probably never even get a chance to play. He'll get as much court time as Garrett Temple, Malik Hairston, Alonzo Gee, and all those other shitty young players we used to have warming the end of the bench..

..he was almost the last pick in the draft. I'm pretty sure that was for a reason.....

You guys are hilarious...

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Originally Posted by Dr. John R. Brinkley

No one is expecting or asking Denmon to be a star to be successful for the team. The team will be successful (or not) based on their stars. No, his role, in theory like Neal, would be to be a player off the bench who can come in and stand on the outside and hit open 3s. And if unlike Neal he can succeed as PG impostor, then even better.

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I don't think anyone expected him to be a star, I was just pointing out that it was incorrect to say "a lot of teams are having success with "tweeners" when basically none were.

When I heard the phrase "tweener", I don't think "height" as much as I do their skillset. After all, 6'3" isn't undersized if you know how to play PG. But if you don't have PG skills, then you're just a short SG, so you're called a "tweener".

In other words. . ."tweeners" tend to just be undersized, ball hogging, chucking SGs who don't have great playmaking or ballhandling skills or both. It's not just about the height. . .the height really doesn't apply except when the player doesn't have much skills at the point.

So a tweener's just a short SG with limited skills. Mostly just shooting and possibly a bit of slashing. Scoring essentially, and nothing else. So teams tend to not have success with those kinds of players because they're one dimensional.

We already have Neal for that (who as we all know is streaky, and useless if he isn't hitting his shots), so we don't exactly need Denmon. I guess they just wanted another body for the Toros.

I basically hear what you're saying about "tweeners". At the same time, a lot of teams are looking for players who can play multiple positions. I know that's not the same as a tweener,and I'm not sure if there's a name for that yet... but if Denmon can shoot as well as we expect he should based on his college career AND play defense and not dribble off his foot I think he could replace Neal, if not now then down the road when Neal probably looks to get a better offer on his next contract.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

I don't think anyone expected him to be a star, I was just pointing out that it was incorrect to say "a lot of teams are having success with "tweeners" when basically none were.

When I heard the phrase "tweener", I don't think "height" as much as I do their skillset. After all, 6'3" isn't undersized if you know how to play PG. But if you don't have PG skills, then you're just a short SG, so you're called a "tweener".

In other words. . ."tweeners" tend to just be undersized, ball hogging, chucking SGs who don't have great playmaking or ballhandling skills or both. It's not just about the height. . .the height really doesn't apply except when the player doesn't have much skills at the point.

So a tweener's just a short SG with limited skills. Mostly just shooting and possibly a bit of slashing. Scoring essentially, and nothing else. So teams tend to not have success with those kinds of players because they're one dimensional.

We already have Neal for that (who as we all know is streaky, and useless if he isn't hitting his shots), so we don't exactly need Denmon. I guess they just wanted another body for the Toros.

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If he can shoot as well as Neal and has better ballhandling and defense he would be an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by G-Dawgg

Don't even insult James Anderson with this comparison for fuck sakes....

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Agreed. Denmon has more in common with Jack McClinton than JA.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

You didn't answer my question.

I asked him to name TEAMS who had success with tweeners.

Not to rattle off a list of sub 6'5 SGs with halfway decent stats.

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76ers went to the NBA Finals with Iverson as their best player.

Chauncey Billups came into the league as a 6'3" guard who couldn't really run the point and developed into an All-Star and a Finals MVP with the Pistons.

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Originally Posted by therealtruth

If he can shoot as well as Neal and has better ballhandling and defense he would be an upgrade.

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Even if he only shot as well as Danny Green, if he brought ballhandling and defense, he'd be an upgrade over Neal.

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

Even if he only shot as well as Danny Green, if he brought ballhandling and defense, he'd be an upgrade over Neal.

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Green shot better than Neal.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

Green shot better than Neal.

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Oops. I stand corrected.

For some reason I think of Green as a shakier shooter than Neal, but with vastly better defense. Obviously I'm wrong.