Spurs need a change of culture

Since 2007, the SA Spurs have been pretty stagnant. Despite a great run this past 2012 playoffs, again the Spurs were exposed of their lack of speed, athleticism, toughness, and solid/experienced role players they have lacked since 2007. I don't see SA Spurs making any big free agent signings this offseason and I belive that signing Nando De Colo or Lorbek will make them any better. Should they make playoffs Nando de colo or Lorbek will again be exposed of their lack of experince in NBA. I'm really frustrated at Spurs front office of not even trying to be in hunt for a big free agent signing, hell even Dallas is making some pushes towards Free agents. If you see teams like Utah, New Orleans, Hawks, they all parted with their stars like Deron Williams, CP3, Joe Johnson because they knew their ceilings were 1st or 2nd round playoffs at best. I believe same with Spurs. Their ceiling next year is 2nd round at best. That being said, there has to be a culture change in SA. No more this soft crap and being the nice classy dudes. Why don't they think about parting ways with Parker or Ginobili, as clearly over the past 5 years nothing has happened. Your thoughts?

It's ok to separate posts into multiple paragraphs...

whatareyoutalkingabout,mel?

How close to a championship are the teams you mentioned who traded away their superstars?

And how did that "go for broke" strategy work out for Dallas?

We do need a Kenyon Martin on our team. Stak5 don't count, simply because he plays on the wing. We need someone in the paint.

The nice guy boyscout image can get really old.

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Originally Posted by jermaine

We do need a Kenyon Martin on our team. Stak5 don't count, simply because he plays on the wing. We need someone in the paint.

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How about a Tyson Chandler?

Kmart would really shake things up for us. But he will try to go to a sure shot championship contender.

People dont seen to understand that there is no trade involving TO or Manu that will put you closer to winning a championship in the next couple years.

At best trade may set you up for a little better future but I think Spurs are going best route. You ride the big 3 a couple more years and develop Kawhi along with one or two Euro players and make smart use of cap space as vets contracts end.

It a tough road vs the NBA way of going all out trying to land superstar(s) and if that doesn't work have fire sale and be really bad for 2-5 years to get multiple lotto picks.

Bottom line there is no guarantees either way (see Toronto, Charlotte, etc. Not to mention
Clippers for so many years)

How is a change in "culture" going to make the team faster or more athletic?

Blowing the team up at this point basically means kicking Tim's ass out the door. I get that you think class is overrated, but don't you think that's a bit of an overcorrection?

The bottom line is that we simply need to get better. If we can find better players that we can actually bring in that are tougher or whatever, great. But I'd settle for things like a better backup point than Gary Neal and a better playoff performer than Matt Bonner. A few changes like that might have been enough to get us past the Thunder.

Plenty of un-classy, athletic teams in The Association that win nothing. That's not the solution. Some times there isn't one.

the so-called culture has given the spurs the most 50+ win seasons for the last decade and beyond.. it's the most successfully run sports organization out of the 4 major leagues in the US.. but it's the NBA.. being a big market and not having anti-spur pundits would better help attract the big and athletic players you speak of.. other than that.. they're doing everything right

I don't think the Spurs need a change in culture as much as I feel they are in desparate need of minor talent upgrades. The type of upgrades that would allow them to return to their original "defensive-first" principles. This team is loaded with shooters and CAN score points. While they cannot generate as many low post baskets since Duncan's decline, there's no denying that they can still score points. However at some point, a team must be able to generate stops and deny the opposition of scoring opportunities, in addition scoring points themselves.

Securing key defensive rebounds, shutting down drives into the paint, blocking a shot or two are all just as critical in being able to generate additional possessions, as is getting offensive rebounds or limiting turnovers.

As the league has shifted since the Spurs won their last championship, it appears Pop has been all too willing to sacrifice defense for offense, in order to keep pace. As such, Pop and RC have added players who can score, but have not been very gifted athleticially. Several of these players have been either limited athleticially, physically or undersized or all three. Because the Spurs dip their toes heavily into the international market, the downside here is usually these players have also not been very good defensively.

Unfortunately, the addition of these types of one-dimensional, role players inhibits a team's ability to play a complete floor game. Meanwhile, there has been an upsurge in the talent and athleticism arcoss the NBA and the Spurs are bit behind the curve and have paid dearly for it.

I just think the Spurs need to augment their roster with a couple of players of considerable size, quickness and length - at various positions. I'm not talking star players, but young, cheap, hungry types that are willing to do some of the dirty work where they need help - especially on the frontline. Of course, to do so would mean parting ways with a couple of players (Bonner, Neal, Blair) that Pop has fallen in and out of love on various occasions.

The rest of the NBA is trying to emulate the San Antonio culture. About a third of the NBA has former Spurs personnel in their FO, on their bench, or both. In today's news Orlando, which already has hired a former Spur exec as their GM, will interview Jacque Vaughn and Quin Snyder (former Toros HC) for their head coaching position.

trade Parker for Arenas
trade Manu for JR Smith
trade Duncan for Perkins
trade Bonner for Najera
trade Kawhi/Green/Diaw for Jordan Hill/World Peace
trade Neal for...oh wait.

no more boy scouts. title.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I don't think the Spurs need a change in culture as much as I feel they are in desparate need of minor talent upgrades. The type of upgrades that would allow them to return to their original "defensive-first" principles. This team is loaded with shooters and CAN score points. While they cannot generate as many low post baskets since Duncan's decline, there's no denying that they can still score points. However at some point, a team must be able to generate stops and deny the opposition of scoring opportunities, in addition scoring points themselves.

Securing key defensive rebounds, shutting down drives into the paint, blocking a shot or two are all just as critical in being able to generate additional possessions, as is getting offensive rebounds or limiting turnovers.

As the league has shifted since the Spurs won their last championship, it appears Pop has been all too willing to sacrifice defense for offense, in order to keep pace. As such, Pop and RC have added players who can score, but have not been very gifted athleticially. Several of these players have been either limited athleticially, physically or undersized or all three. Because the Spurs dip their toes heavily into the international market, the downside here is usually these players have also not been very good defensively.

Unfortunately, the addition of these types of one-dimensional, role players inhibits a team's ability to play a complete floor game. Meanwhile, there has been an upsurge in the talent and athleticism arcoss the NBA and the Spurs are bit behind the curve and have paid dearly for it.

I just think the Spurs need to augment their roster with a couple of players of considerable size, quickness and length - at various positions. I'm not talking star players, but young, cheap, hungry types that are willing to do some of the dirty work where they need help - especially on the frontline. Of course, to do so would mean parting ways with a couple of players (Bonner, Neal, Blair) that Pop has fallen in and out of love on various occasions.

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I agree the Spurs need to find a better offensive/defensive balance. They showed signs of being a really good defensive team right up till game 3 in the WCF. In games 1-2 they played good enough defense to close out those games. After game 3 it seems the bottom fell out of the defense. I think a big part of that was rotations. In an effort for more offense Pop didn't stick long enough with some of the better defensive players.

God damn some Spurs fans are stupid. The Spurs need a 24 year old Duncan.

If there is one thing Spurs need NOT to change is precisely their culture.
It's called team.
That's what I like about them.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I don't think the Spurs need a change in culture as much as I feel they are in desparate need of minor talent upgrades. The type of upgrades that would allow them to return to their original "defensive-first" principles. This team is loaded with shooters and CAN score points. While they cannot generate as many low post baskets since Duncan's decline, there's no denying that they can still score points. However at some point, a team must be able to generate stops and deny the opposition of scoring opportunities, in addition scoring points themselves.

Securing key defensive rebounds, shutting down drives into the paint, blocking a shot or two are all just as critical in being able to generate additional possessions, as is getting offensive rebounds or limiting turnovers.

As the league has shifted since the Spurs won their last championship, it appears Pop has been all too willing to sacrifice defense for offense, in order to keep pace. As such, Pop and RC have added players who can score, but have not been very gifted athleticially. Several of these players have been either limited athleticially, physically or undersized or all three. Because the Spurs dip their toes heavily into the international market, the downside here is usually these players have also not been very good defensively.

Unfortunately, the addition of these types of one-dimensional, role players inhibits a team's ability to play a complete floor game. Meanwhile, there has been an upsurge in the talent and athleticism arcoss the NBA and the Spurs are bit behind the curve and have paid dearly for it.

I just think the Spurs need to augment their roster with a couple of players of considerable size, quickness and length - at various positions. I'm not talking star players, but young, cheap, hungry types that are willing to do some of the dirty work where they need help - especially on the frontline. Of course, to do so would mean parting ways with a couple of players (Bonner, Neal, Blair) that Pop has fallen in and out of love on various occasions.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

The rest of the NBA is trying to emulate the San Antonio culture. About a third of the NBA has former Spurs personnel in their FO, on their bench, or both. In today's news Orlando, which already has hired a former Spur exec as their GM, will interview Jacque Vaughn and Quin Snyder (former Toros HC) for their head coaching position.

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+1

To nitpick, I think the Spurs could use some more vocal leaders on the court too. Tony did a good job this season but I'm not convinced hes naturally like that or completely comfortable. Duncan leads by example and Ginobili is a body language/effort guy.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

God damn some Spurs fans are stupid. The Spurs need a 24 year old Duncan.

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When the Spurs went up 2-0 on OKC, tons of sportscasters, announcers, scouts, NBA players, and posters on spurstalk were practically anointing them with the championship. They were declared the smartest team in the NBA, the deepest team in the NBA, the team with the best ball movement, and the team that "played the right way."

Other teams envy the Spurs every single year. The Spurs may not win championships as of late, but even still other teams look at the Spurs and respect them.

The 'don't talk trash', 'it's just business', 'execute execute execute', 'you perform, you will be rewarded', 'don't miss your rotation' culture is exactly what makes the Spurs a great franchise.

Now here's the real deal....if the Spurs acted like every other franchise out there and showed no loyalty to their players, and started trading away players once they pass their prime, went for more flashy trash talking, etc....(ie. change their culture), what exactly would the Spurs selling point be to players? Come play in San Antonio, we have a small market, we get ignored by the media, so you being in the spotlight will be minimal...but hey guess what, we're like every other team out there!

Change of culture makes no sense...as someone else mentioned earlier, what is really needed is a return to the defense first culture! Defense first, now that's something unique.

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Originally Posted by tkang456

Since 2007, the SA Spurs have been pretty stagnant. Despite a great run this past 2012 playoffs, again the Spurs were exposed of their lack of speed, athleticism, toughness, and solid/experienced role players they have lacked since 2007. I don't see SA Spurs making any big free agent signings this offseason and I belive that signing Nando De Colo or Lorbek will make them any better. Should they make playoffs Nando de colo or Lorbek will again be exposed of their lack of experince in NBA. I'm really frustrated at Spurs front office of not even trying to be in hunt for a big free agent signing, hell even Dallas is making some pushes towards Free agents. If you see teams like Utah, New Orleans, Hawks, they all parted with their stars like Deron Williams, CP3, Joe Johnson because they knew their ceilings were 1st or 2nd round playoffs at best. I believe same with Spurs. Their ceiling next year is 2nd round at best. That being said, there has to be a culture change in SA. No more this soft crap and being the nice classy dudes. Why don't they think about parting ways with Parker or Ginobili, as clearly over the past 5 years nothing has happened. Your thoughts?

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:lol

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Originally Posted by spurspokesman

Kmart would really shake things up for us. But he will try to go to a sure shot championship contender.

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Did you even watch the 2003 Finals? He's not a clutch performer. We really don't need another regular season guy. We seem to have that down pat.

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Originally Posted by Mr Bones

When the Spurs went up 2-0 on OKC, tons of sportscasters, announcers, scouts, NBA players, and posters on spurstalk were practically anointing them with the championship. They were declared the smartest team in the NBA, the deepest team in the NBA, the team with the best ball movement, and the team that "played the right way."

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That's why the collapse was so bad. The Spurs showed they could beat OKC while not playing their best and then proceeded to collapse after they lost game 3.

If you ask me, the Spurs WERE playing good, if not suffocating D until the WCF.

8 of the last 10 games of the regular season were won by double digits, with the other two being games Pop and the big 3 sat out and Mills was running point.

Of course it's going to look bad if you're playing uptempo and you allow more points per game. IMO points allowed per possession and offensive-defensive differential make more sense.

The problem was that OKC was making the midrange jumpers Pop deliberately conceded and the SA shooters were missing.

What the Spurs need is someone who can protect the paint without being a stiff, or another guy who can slash towards the basket. When your top two penetrators are 30 or up...

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

Did you even watch the 2003 Finals? He's not a clutch performer. We really don't need another regular season guy. We seem to have that down pat.

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In terms of physicality. And I doubt his nuts shrink to bonner like depths and he above all things has height reach and toughness. Something the spurs lack.

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Originally Posted by racm

If you ask me, the Spurs WERE playing good, if not suffocating D until the WCF.

8 of the last 10 games of the regular season were won by double digits, with the other two being games Pop and the big 3 sat out and Mills was running point.

Of course it's going to look bad if you're playing uptempo and you allow more points per game. IMO points allowed per possession and offensive-defensive differential make more sense.

The problem was that OKC was making the midrange jumpers Pop deliberately conceded and the SA shooters were missing.

What the Spurs need is someone who can protect the paint without being a stiff, or another guy who can slash towards the basket. When your top two penetrators are 30 or up...

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As you said OKC shot really well on jumpers. At the same time the Spurs allowed the OKC offense to get into a good rhythm. The most important part of defense is disrupting the rhythm of the other team.

Yeah, their offensively challenged bigs going 22-25 was the start.

Once OKC realized they weren't afraid that swung the series. Then they hit a brick wall with LeBron then bam, Harden lost his clutch gene since he couldn't get to the line as much as LeBron could, Westbrook kept shooting because he felt it was the only way to win, and Durant was too passive.

Why are some fans so hell bent on blowing it up? Very soon they'll be able to enjoy exatly what they want now - no superstars, 20-win seasons, high draft picks, going after FAs and failing to get them, lots of trades and then lots more 20-30 win seasons. Exciting huh?

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Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan

Why are some fans so hell bent on blowing it up? Very soon they'll be able to enjoy exatly what they want now - no superstars, 20-win seasons, high draft picks, going after FAs and failing to get them, lots of trades and then lots more 20-30 win seasons. Exciting huh?

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You're telling me a team two wins away from the Finals is worth tanking next season over? You don't say!

:stirpot:

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Originally Posted by racm

Yeah, their offensively challenged bigs going 22-25 was the start.

Once OKC realized they weren't afraid that swung the series. Then they hit a brick wall with LeBron then bam, Harden lost his clutch gene since he couldn't get to the line as much as LeBron could, Westbrook kept shooting because he felt it was the only way to win, and Durant was too passive.

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Exactly if they had played that way against us we would have won. Instead they played better team ball than we did from game 3 onward.

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Originally Posted by spurspokesman

In terms of physicality. And I doubt his nuts shrink to bonner like depths and he above all things has height reach and toughness. Something the spurs lack.

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Go back and watch game 6. That abomination was worse than ANYTHING Bonner ever did in the playoffs. :lol Kenyon is not a playoff performer.

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Originally Posted by donjuansdaddy

Right on. Spurs problem is, they are not from a big market or don't have a marketable superstar at this point. But from an international standpoint, the Spurs are the NBAs most popular team, but that doesn't help.

Lorbek is 10X better than Bonner and the Spurs have been the top seed 3 of 6 years Bonner has been part of the Spurs rotation. So really, the OP doesn't want Lorbek. Doesn't want De Colo. Both are better than Neal or Bonner.

Every team out there is trying to win a championship. You look at OKC now, but they sucked for 3 straight years, yes even Durant's first year. Presti was able to draft great players, but it took trading away Allen and Lewis which they flipped for Harden and Ibaka. As Spurs fans, are you willing to go through 3-4 years of mediocrity to rebuild this team. I for one, though I like the Spurs to win a title each year, wouldn't mind if the Spurs made the WCF for the next 10 years. Just getting their gives you a shot to the Finals.

One thing I wouldn't want to see, if continuous BS reffing over the next decade.

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OKC has had a top 2, a top 4, and a top 3 lottery pick as their big 3. Miami's big 3 are all top 5 picks from the same draft class.

The Spurs got to the WCF with a total of ONE lottery pick, with the second highest drafted guy on the roster being Kawhi Leonard - and the Spurs essentially turned the 25th pick in 2008 into the 15th pick in 2011.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai

Go back and watch game 6. That abomination was worse than ANYTHING Bonner ever did in the playoffs. :lol Kenyon is not a playoff performer.

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NJ choking away that lead was beautiful. :lobt:

Not this shit again.

OP needs a change of diaper.

The spurs need a long athletic (fairly fast and can jump) power forward with an ability to not stagnate the offense, and play smart defense. He doesn't have to have polished post up ability of range beyond 5 feet.

That said at the moment finding a young free agent guy who fits that description, or a guy who can do those things where the spurs tend to draft has been tough.

It would also have been nice a couple of years ago to not look for a Duncan replacement in that guy and just go for that kind of athlete. (I sort of think we were looking for Mahini to be that guy but he never got his head right nor could really break the rotation here.)