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That's what Solobasket, a generally reliable website, is reporting. I'm putting a question mark because there is only one source for the moment.
http://www.solobasket.com/contenidos...a/c-30026.html
It seems too that Barcelona offer is €3M per year (before taxes):
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/201207...322023153.html
My Spanish sucks, so I couldn't figure out how many years on the offered contract?
What are we talking about here? $2.5M - $2.8M after taxes?
Is this really outside of the Spurs' reach? Maybe money will not be the deciding factor here.
Maybe his father will be, like many times before. Who knows...Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
That's chump change right? Though I reckon the Spurs can't really offer much unless Diaw doesn't come back (and he's done well so far on the FNT).
Fuck Barcelona
Not a big deal.
The Spurs could use the MLE on Diaw. Diaw is better.
Still need a backup PF. No more Bonner and Blair, I hope.
Yeah, the Q is who's the backup 4 as Diaw's a near lock unless he picks OKC or something :lol
I'm not sure exactly how much it's after tax. IMO, it's more around $2M because Spain is changing his tax rate on high salaries. My guesstimate is that Spurs should have offered $4M per year to match Barcelona offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
but that would be only a little lower than the non-taxpayer's MLE. The Spurs FO is at a dilemma here - do they want Diaw back or bringing Lorbek over?
Ronny Turiaf, Antawn Jamison, Nenad Krstic.
Is it possible Spurs could get one of them?
Turiaf's not a bad prospect, he provides yet another French element to the Spurs even if he doesn't stretch the floor.
Jamison had a career low in FG% and 3p% IIRC, so he wouldn't be an upgrade to Bonner. The Bobcats look attractive to him due to him living in the Charlotte area in the offseason.
Krstic... what's his contract status in Europe?
Fuck him if he resigns with them.
Eh, money talks.
bonner makes more then that
cant you just amensty his ass and sign lorbek
The second article mentions the Spurs looking for a center and lists Marcus Camby by name. Then, it discusses the Spurs situation of how much money they would have left for Lorbek.
It also says Lorbek was offered a deal by CSKA.
The one article says he will end up with about half after taxes- guess that would make about $1.85 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
the thing with amnestizing players is, that Peter Holt still would have to pay for Bonner (or at least the difference of his current contract and whatever another team would pay him).Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
Lakers, Knicks, Nets ect. might not care, but we do (and thats just the way it is).
Not to mention that it does not create any additional money to sign players with unless you are under the cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudyez
Nothing has changed. We have the MLE and the LLE to sign players that we don't have Bird rights or matching rights to. That means Diaw, Lorbek, and anyone new on the radar. We can also make trades. This is all exactly the same situation it was when the Spurs walked off the floor in OKC to end the season.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lorbek did re-sign in Europe. From the beginning, I've gotten almost the exact same vibe as the Boursis situation a while back. He strikes me as either a flake or an angler/manipulator.
Fuck him anyway. Pop no longer trust newbie internationals to be a big factor, not since 2002 and 2003 has he done that. The guy may have talent that can transition to the NBA game, he may not, if he comes here he won't see any floor time anyway.
If i remember correctly he was chosen PF on the All Tournamnent team in FIBA Eurobasket. So he must have some talents.
If he enjoys the game of Basketball i recommend him signing with Barcelona instead of San Antonio cause he will actually get to keep playing minutes there.
If the dollar amount is true, then it's likely the Spurs just don't have him as a high priority (which is a little suprising due to his pedigree).
Amnestying Bonner still won't free any cap space, unless Duncan re-sings at less than $6M (which is not happening). MLE and BAE are all we can offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
Luxic if all we can offer is the MLE and BAE we can only bring in 2 new players? Or you can split those up for multiple people?
Looks like the Spurs are in for slim pickings this offseason in either case.
We already have like 12 players on the roster, 13 when tim re-signs. Hope we use the amnesty and trade multiple players for a serious baller.
We'll never know whether the transfer of his NBA rights to San Antonio changed Lorbek's feelings about leaving Europe, or if he saw it as nothing more than a piece of very good fortune that would markedly improve his bargaining position with the richest European clubs. It really doesn't matter. What we do know as a near certainty is that Lorbek was never coming to San Antonio on the cheap.
Signing Lorbek would require using the majority of the MLE. That meant that there was no chance of signing Lorbek AND Diaw. It would come down to Lorbek OR Diaw.
In that case, signing Diaw is clearly the best option for the Spurs.
This reported "largest offer in club history" highlights how far euro basketball is from even the salary for a decent big is in the nba. If I'm Lorbek I take less money with the spurs (and really not that much less tbh) in the hopes of getting an Asik type pay day in two years.
Yes barca is one of te best cities in the world. One of my personal fave. But go back there once you truly get paid Lorbek!
I have to admit that I am not all that disappointed that he's not coming over. Signing Lorbek would have meant that the Spurs are all about offensive firepower and outscoring their opponents without addressing the needs on the defensive end. I hope the FO is now turning their attention to acquiring a more defensive minded big.
Oh, no . . . they agreed but didn't sign the contract yet. I guess he's a gonner.
The Spurs rarely give out the full MLE to anyone. I think the last time was Horry. I don't recall them ever giving it to a player who's never played even one NBA minute. Even Manu, who had a much better international pedigree, took a two year deal for the LLE.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
If Lorbek wants to come over, he'll have to prove himself to SA if he eventually wants to get paid. Doesn't sound like he wants to do that. He was only a trade throw in, anyway. Spurs took a shot, and he apparently wasn't interested.
Next.
OK, another proven NBA commodity. Good post D, very good rebounding, buttery jumper. They knew what they were getting.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
Hey, where'd you go, AFB? :lol
Drive-by careless post by me. You caught me!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra Kai
It's not at all surprising, as Wild Cobra Kai alluded to.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I'd have been fine with him coming, but I'm also fine that he's more than likely not, too, for a variety of reasons. 1) He never seemed anything more than lukewarm about coming to the NBA. You always talk about "guys who you can go to war with"; he doesn't strike me as the type. 2) He was always going to be an awkward fit defensively and never would have been more than the fourth big. 3) They need more athleticism, mobility and rim protection, amongst their bigs. Adding him to a big rotation with Duncan, Diaw and Splitter, only would have exacerbated those problems. 4) Diaw needs to be their priority. Not that I thought he was going anywhere anyway, but Lorbek not coming makes Diaw returning even closer to a lock.
Nice, he can go for the back to back at the Palau. :tu
That would be correct for a straight up income tax, but I'm fairly confident that a good accountant can get you to pay less, but I don't think he could get much under 30%, that's why I guessed $2.5M as a best case scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
If he would have gone to Barcelona for a big paycheck I would have understood, but if the Spurs offer is in the same ballpark I will be disapointed that he at least didn't try to find out how good he really is.
Let's see if we can get some confirmation/better info tomorrow.
That's Peter Holt's money.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudyez
For less than 2M / yr? Wow, I don't see how it wouldn't have been worth it to bring him over at that price.
That's one person's guess of what he's getting after taxes. Bruno estimated that the Spurs would have to offer around 4M to make the offers equivalent.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
Well the marginal federal tax rate for the highest earners in 2012 the US is (an absurdly low) 35%. While his effective tax rate would actually be slightly lower than that, for ease of illustration let's use the marginal tax rate bc he'll make significantly more than $390k that it shouldnt impact the final tac liability that much anyway. That means that a comparable starting contract in the NBA would have to be around $3.1M. It helps that Texas ha no state taxes of course, or else the gross up would be more.
Barca is awesome, but if the money is the same? Come on and grow a pair and try your luck in the NBA.
Oh ok. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
Bonner's not going anywhere. Book it.
Not next year, but I'd guess they'll buy him out next summer for $1M for that final year, or trade him to someone who will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
Holt only leads the investors' group, he does not put up all the money, afaik.Quote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
Time to focus on Camby or Kaman.
According to Lorbek, that's where the focus has been all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan2177
DittoQuote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
Until we see the news that Lorbek chose Barcelona for another source, I'm going to take it with a giant grain of salt. If Lorbek really did sign one of the largest contracts in European basketball history, it'd be in more than one publication.
Anyways, Lorbek obviously wasn't the Spurs priority in this offseason so we can't be too sad if he decides to sign somewhere else. If the Spurs really, really wanted him, they wouldn't have told him to hold on while they chase 232-year-old Marcus Camby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
I'm sure Barcelona can hook him up with Eto'o's accountant.
:lol Eto'o
:lol mercenary
:lol tax evader
Something I just noticed: Diaw and Lorbek share an agent (Diaw's primary agent is Lorbek's secondary agent). That probably makes it more difficult to squeeze both of them into the MLE. It also makes it impossible to negotiate with one of them without both hearing about it.
That could explain why the spurs are doing other work first (going after Camby and De Colo) before tackling Diaw and Lorbek.
Camby maybe, but Kaman is looking for $8 to $10 mil. per year.....Kamans not gonna happen.
Yep, that's wise. They published it 12 hours ago and no one else has confirmed it since that.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Seems like it was a game of chicken btwn Barca and Spurs to see who would make the offer first. Looks like spurs get a chance to see Barca's hand first.
Conflict of interest much?Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
NBA players have to pay state income tax by state in which games are played. Over half would be in states without income tax but they have to pay proportionally for the rest by state.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGD
One article said something about part of the contract being under favorable tax terms but I have no idea how that would work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
True, though, I would imagine the cumulative tax liability would still be less than if his tax-home was in a tax state (e.g., New York). Interestingly if a player's tax-home is tax state (e.g., New York), then the player would in all likelihood get a credit from each state he "works" in to offset the tax liability owed to them. But if your in Texas, Florida, or Tennessee (or another non-tax state), then the player does NOT get that credit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
My understanding is that they have to file a state tax return in every state in which they play that has a state income tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGD
Can one of our slovenian friends comment on this?
http://kosarka.si/erazem-lorbek-najb...odovini-barce/
A reprint of the Op's original info, and the same speculations that we are also making in this thread (best contract in Europe, 3M/year, CSKA and Spurs still an option...)Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I looked around for a second source/confirmation and I didn't find anything, everybody is citing that one article.
I'm going to assume Lorbek hasn't decided. There'd be more confirmation out by now. Besides, the timing doesn't make some sense. Lorbek himself said the Spurs told him to wait while they take care of other business first. There's really no reason for him not to wait a week or two before deciding his next move.
Thats my understanding too. But if one lives in a state with no income tax (eg Texas) that person may not be entitled to a credit for taxes paid in another state, whereas if the state does have an income a person still has to file taxes in hat state but would get some sort of credit for the liability.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
For example, this past year I had to file in Maryland and Michigan (both income tax states). I received a tax credit from Maryland inthe amount of what my liability would have been bc I had abandoned my residence in Maryland. It's all minutia of course, but it goes to show there is more to the "no state taxes" consideration.
Lorbek don't want be the next Splitter. :lol
thanks Slomo :toastQuote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
If that's our big move then we're screwed..Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadows
I agree.......we need to make some moves and I don't know what they are but just signing Diaw is not going to get it done. We really need another scorer someone who's balls won't shrivel up come playoff time...ie..Boner.
Don't the Spurs have an ownership group? Surely it doesn't all come out of Peter's pocket? How much of a percentage does Holt actually own anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
Um YeahQuote:
Originally Posted by BatManu20
Not a big deal.
He's not what we need
Fuck 29 year old NBA rookies, any ways. We still got the better end of the deal in that trade with Indy.
Another source that confirmed the news:
http://www.mundodeportivo.com/201207...322187065.html
It seems that CSKA offered more money to Lorbek and Spurs didn't even make a formal offer for Lorbek.
thisQuote:
Originally Posted by SpurPadre
Wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
So is this 100% official now? I don't know the accuracy of these publications but these two sources combined make it look like a done deal.
It's not official but it's a done deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Well that sucks, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
The Spurs may not have given him a formal offer but I'm sure they gave him a ballpark figure. It very well could have been the BAE. When Barcelona came back with a big offer, it probably became a no-brainer for him.
Like I said earlier, negotiating with him was probably more difficult and the Spurs couldn't keep him in a holding pattern since his agent is also Diaw's agent. If Diaw is being courted with the MLE, Lorbek would instantly know that the MLE wasn't in play for him.
It was always somewhat of a longshot to land Lorbek in San Antonio but I was looking forward to seeing how well he'd translate to the NBA game. Oh well.
P.S.
I have a looooooooong Lorbek preview written up that includes quotes from a Spurs scout that I was told couldn't be published until July 11 for "competitive reasons". Guess that's worthless now :depressed
Assuming we bring back Diaw, and we passed on Lorbek in favor of a physical center, then it would appear obvious who our back-up 4's are going to be......ugh...
I just want to know who the physical center is.
I don't know if this is a relevant view, but Mundo Deportivo (and Sport) publish all kinds of reports on "done deals"/"preliminary agreements" in soccer that turn out later to be just media hoaxes or empty speculations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Without official confirmation, I will take this with a pinch of salt.
Tbh, the worst part about Lorbek not coming over is that means Bonner is very much still a part of the team :td
SOB :bangQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Let's await official confirmation, those Spanish sports dailies come up with "confirmed, 100% done deal" news all the time and more than half of it turns out as bullshit. Let's hope this is the case cuz I can't stand seeing Bonner in black and white again.
No real offer from the Spurs? That's very surprising if true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Lorbek signing with a team where he can play the game he loves. Doesn't want to be the next Splitter riding the bench while watching Boner and Blair getting more PT then him. Good decision from Lorbek as he actually wants to play basketball, not just watch from the bench.
It's easy to guess what likely happened: Lorbek didn't want to sign for the LLE and Spurs pick Diaw over him to be signed with the MLE.
If that's true, that's very bad news for the Spurs...as it is the signing of Sanikidze in italy with Siena.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Lorbek was the only addition to last years team able to give us a real chance of improving, considering his skill set...and Diaw with the MLE if far above is actual market price.
I always thought that the way to sign them both was to split the MLE between them...but probably everything's been spoiled by the fact that the actual MLE is for a less amount of $ than last year.
I understand the Spurs choice to try to sign some already nba proven player, but this way we're gonna give up on the only way we always had to really improve : I mean signing foreign players with no nba experience but extremely valuable for their skills (a la Manu, Parker atc atc.).
Going on this way looks like the "draft and stash" strategy is never gonna work... didn't work for Scola, nor for Javtokas, nor for Sanikidze and now for Lorbeck... and all of them were prospects with nba skills more than a lot of supposedly "nba proven" players... The only positive example could be Splitter, but it's becoming clearer and clearer that, despite the numbers, Pop has some problems in developing his talents...
i guess it's easy to say that for the full MLE Lorbek would have signed, but not for a fraction of it.
so the Spurs did have other plans as well (Diaw, De Colo) and Lorbek wasn't the #1 priority.
might even open some other scenarios. for example: Diaw re signes for a compareable number like the Mini MLE would be. (some contenders might offer this). this would leave the Spurs with the chance to offer something like 3 years/6 million to a player like Camby. (small chance he takes it, he is almost Knicks bound, but still a better offer than vet. minimum or LLE).
and De Colo signs via LLE.
Let's see if I get this one right.
3 M Euros before taxes is about 1.6 M net, considering the changes Spain is -finally- putting to their tax legislation on the wealthy.
That's what? some $3/3,3 M before taxes?
It is mentioned that the CSKA offer was higher (no doubt about that), might be in the $ 5 M range before taxes (in Russia).
Siena's backup PG is going to Bilbao for $ 2M. Backup PG.
In another thread, we were talking here about something around $ 3 M.
If the Spurs are not capable to match Barça's offer, they were never really serious about Lorbek.
It might signal that between Diaw and Lorbek, they would go for the proven guy.
Diaw did play well, with his contract expiring.
He also did play well when the previous contract was expiring, to get a fat new one.
Once he got that, he got fatter than his contract.
Or it might signal that Lorbek was never really serious about going to the NBA.
It looks to me that the Spurs are far too aware of the European market to imagine Lorbek would sign for the LLE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Probably Barça just matched what they presumed -or were told- would be Spurs offer.
No true...if players like Asik and Ryan Anderson are getting the contracts they are getting then Diaw for the MLE is a very good deal. He is also a known commodity that has shown his game meshes very well with what the Spurs do offensively. I would have liked to see Lorbek in a Spurs uni too, but Diaw is easily the better choice if one is forced to make one.Quote:
Originally Posted by venitian navigator
I'd say Diaw for the MLE would be a bargain compared to the crazy deals Asik/Ryno got tbh.
You get a guy whose current position is PF but who actually plays all five positions, can hit shots near the basket or from beyond the arc, is a great passer to a fault (passes in favor of shooting), is an adequate rebounder, and just led a comeback against Britain.
This has been the obvious and predictable outcome for quite some time now. The Spurs had to choose between Diaw and Lorbek and Diaw was always the obvious choice. The tiny sliver of a chance of getting both was based on Lorbek signing for below market value and that was extremely unlikely. I'm just glad that it was resolved early so that the Spurs can move on with other targets for the BAE and anything that might be left from the MLE after signing Diaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
It was worth a shot to acquire Lorbek's rights as a throw-in for free. In the end, his rights were worth exactly what the Spurs paid for them.
We'll never know for sure, although there was never any indication that going to the NBA was very important to him. I am certain that Lorbek and his agent celebrated when the Spurs obtained his NBA rights. Unlike the Pacers, the Spurs would be regarded as a legitimate suitor for his services and help to secure the best possible contract in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by temujin
This is great news. The Spurs didn't need another un-athletic, non-rebounding, non-shotblocking power forward who doesn't like to draw contact and hasn't even proven he can play in the nba.
And while so many here forget everything that happened before those final 4 games, the Spurs won 15 consecutive games, including 10 playoff games, with Diaw starting next to Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by racm
Yeah, until Game 3 the lineup of Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan was UNBEATEN.
If anything I don't think Pop went with Leonard and Diaw enough in the last few games.Quote:
Originally Posted by racm
Makes perfect sense. Diaw is the better fit once he gets into shape. Just got to integrate him more into the offense. I would also like to see Splitter become the third big to substitute for Diaw-Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I'm sure they knew the LLE was below his European market value. Their only hope to get him for the LLE was if Lorbek was ready to take a paycut to sign in the NBA. It looks like he wasn't which was expected given that he has never been fascinated by the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by temujin
To be fair, since Diaw wasn't putting points on the board and Pop elected to go with more Jackson at the 3...
That's too simple of a way to look at it. Actually Diaw probably should have had the ball in his hands more. He could have probably helped setup some of the other guys like Danny Green who were struggling. Have Parker play off the ball and make Diaw the secondary playmaker. That way Manu wouldn't have had to start. It worked pretty well against the Clippers when they got the ball out of Parker's hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by racm