Cleveland shopping Varejao?

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I think the biggest thing beyond the defense/boards is overall toughness. Splitter has some correctable mistakes but I have a hard time seeing him getting any tougher than he already is. He's a finesse big that tries hard. Andy is a physical big through and through.

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Well, I don't see Andy tough at all. I see him more 'dirty' than tough, which, admittedly, is part of his 'getting into players heads' game. He was amongst the league leaders in taking charges along with Derek Fisher for a few seasons in a row. Tough guys don't flop at that rate.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

We're not talking about whether Splitter's post game is overrated or not though, we're talking about if it's better than Varejao's and I see no argument for it not being. Varejao doesn't even have a post game.

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Tiago has a lot of ground to cover there though.... that weak ass elbow flip shot needs to die a horrible death over the summer...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

FWIW, Andy's number showed a marked improvement not when Irving joined the team, but the previous season, when Lebron walked away... then again, he only played about 30 games on each season, so it's really hard to gauge if the numbers scale...

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I was impressed watching him play last year with Irving. I have always liked him for his defense and rebounding but after seeing him run the pick and roll so well with a good PG I couldn't help but think that he is the type of player we all wish Splitter could be. I agree the sample size was small but you either run it well or you don't. He seemed to run it well pretty naturally.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Well, I don't see Andy tough at all. I see him more 'dirty' than tough, which, admittedly, is part of his 'getting into players heads' game. He was amongst the league leaders in taking charges along with Derek Fisher for a few seasons in a row. Tough guys don't flop at that rate.

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Nothing wrong with a little dirty...or nasty, if you will. :)

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I was impressed watching him play last year with Irving. I have always liked him for his defense and rebounding but after seeing him run the pick and roll so well with a good PG I couldn't help but think that he is the type of player we all wish Splitter could be. I agree the sample size was small but you either run it well or you don't. He seemed to run it well pretty naturally.

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I really didn't see much of the Cavs last season, so I'll take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

Nothing wrong with a little dirty...or nasty, if you will. :)

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No doubt. He's a lot like Bowen in that sense of being a bitch to his rivals. Probably a guy you love if he's on your team, but despise otherwise.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

We're not talking about whether Splitter's post game is overrated or not though, we're talking about if it's better than Varejao's and I see no argument for it not being. Varejao doesn't even have a post game.

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Well the discussion becomes irrelevant if we are talking about post game comparison...because though Splitter's is better it's only effective occasionally. Both can run the pick and roll and that's all that really matters when you are talking about the bulk of necessary offensive production.

One thing I'll always be grateful to Andy for: Trying to be a hero in the last play of Game 4 in the NBA Finals. Botching the play, leaving Lebron wondering what happened, and putting up a horrible shot that sealed Spurs' 4th title. :lol

We can agree on that. :lol

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Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic

Assinine trade idea. Splitter is the better player, the younger player, the healthier player, and the significantly less expensive player. Sometimes I wonder what in God's name goes through some of your heads.

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Anderson Varejao is a better player than Tiago Splitter. All your other points are valid though.

So when does flop rate equal not being tough. Ginobili and Fisher are pretty tough players. If Varejao was on the team last year, he would be on the court and not on the bench as Splitter was most times.

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Originally Posted by Steve-O-Matic

Assinine trade idea. Splitter is the better player, the younger player, the healthier player, and the significantly less expensive player. Sometimes I wonder what in God's name goes through some of your heads.

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Agreed

If Cleveland was to claim scola for say 3.5 mil would you consider a Splitter, Bonnet, Blair, Byars, Neal for Andy and Luis? Trades involving that many bodies rarely go down.

Also I think the only way you do any Splitter 4 Andy trade is if you are convinced Tiago will command more money than Spurs are willing to pay next summer.

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Originally Posted by JonNOKC

If Cleveland was to claim scola for say 3.5 mil would you consider a Splitter, Bonnet, Blair, Byars, Neal for Andy and Luis? Trades involving that many bodies rarely go down.

Also I think the only way you do any Splitter 4 Andy trade is if you are convinced Tiago will command more money than Spurs are willing to pay next summer.

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Any team that claims Scola will not be able to trade him at any time this season.

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Originally Posted by Kindergarten Cop

Any team that claims Scola will not be able to trade him at any time this season.

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Thanks - a lot to the new amnesty rule - ignore my post please

Why not Splitter-Andy combo? Probably You will see it monday against the U.S. Team. Varejao can inprove both Tim and Splitter's game and he plays lots of minutes in a horrible Cavs. The biggest issue is the salary and how to make the change without Splitter in the deal...

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Originally Posted by benefactor

Well the discussion becomes irrelevant if we are talking about post game comparison...because though Splitter's is better it's only effective occasionally. Both can run the pick and roll and that's all that really matters when you are talking about the bulk of necessary offensive production.

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It's very relevant. You said, "He's better than Splitter at everything except running the pick and roll". I said, "He's not a better low post scorer or passer than Splitter." You've now agreed that "Splitter's is better". In other words, you were wrong.

Don't forget, before one of his 45 injuries this past season, Splitter was rapidly developing into one of the better low post scorers in the league. I don't care how awkward some of his moves looked; they were effective. After his injury, he was inexplicably nowhere near as good in the post. He's never going to draw comparisons to Olajuwon or Duncan, but it's clearly in him to be a quality low post scorer.

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Originally Posted by PingPong

Why not Splitter-Andy combo? Probably You will see it monday against the U.S. Team. Varejao can inprove both Tim and Splitter's game and he plays lots of minutes in a horrible Cavs. The biggest issue is the salary and how to make the change without Splitter in the deal...

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??? In any prospective Varajao trade, they're going to want Splitter as the centerpiece. That's why not.

Varejao may not be the most talented player, but he would fit very well with the starting lineup. Losing Splitter, though, likely makes it not worthwhile, especially if the Spurs can get Kenyon Martin.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

It's very relevant. You said, "He's better than Splitter at everything except running the pick and roll". I said, "He's not a better low post scorer or passer than Splitter." You've now agreed that "Splitter's is better". In other words, you were wrong.

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I know what I said. You don't have to repeat things in full faggot form to make some kind of point.

You are still overrating Splitter's post game. It's decent at best and it in no way does enough to make him a better player than Andy. There would be very little drop off offensively with Andy in the lineup and there would be an improvement in defense and a significant improvement in rebounding and overall toughness.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

It's very relevant. You said, "He's better than Splitter at everything except running the pick and roll". I said, "He's not a better low post scorer or passer than Splitter." You've now agreed that "Splitter's is better". In other words, you were wrong.

Don't forget, before one of his 45 injuries this past season, Splitter was rapidly developing into one of the better low post scorers in the league. I don't care how awkward some of his moves looked; they were effective. After his injury, he was inexplicably nowhere near as good in the post. He's never going to draw comparisons to Olajuwon or Duncan, but it's clearly in him to be a quality low post scorer.

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I partially blame Pop for that regression. He started reducing Splitter's minutes after that injury.

With Varajeo we would have most of the all-Flop team.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I know what I said. You don't have to repeat things in full faggot form to make some kind of point.

You are still overrating Splitter's post game. It's decent at best and it in no way does enough to make him a better player than Andy. There would be very little drop off offensively with Andy in the lineup and there would be an improvement in defense and a significant improvement in rebounding and overall toughness.

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Well then how does "the discussion become irrelevant if we are talking about post game comparison"? Seems to me any aspect of the game is relevant, when you say "(insert name) is only better than (insert name) at (insert skill)".

Not really. For a stretch there he was damn near automatic in the post. He's got enough of a low post game to be better than decent.

I see the argument for Varejao; I don't need it spelled out to me. The other reason I wouldn't do it is because defending specific PF's isn't as big a pressing need as it was. Diaw helps in that regard, but so does the competition. Nothing is guaranteed obviously, but this team is in another class from the Mavs or Grizzlies now, plus Nowitzki and Randolph don't appear to be quite what they were. The Lakers may have just gotten back into the Spurs class, but Gasol, at least on that team, isn't quite what he was either. And the two main teams who stand between this team and a championship have no offensive threats at power forward a lot of the time and the times they do, they're playing perimeter players at the position, in which case you don't need a big to defend the position anyway.

Swapping Varejao for Splitter would be very useful for us - Varejao is a better defender and rebounder, and has greater stamina, although he's not quite as good offensively. It's a pity his contract is also double what Splitter gets. Still, we'd have to carefully consider a Varejao for Splitter and Bonner deal if it was out there.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I know what I said. You don't have to repeat things in full faggot form to make some kind of point.

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:lol It's never a complete Benefactor thread until he gets mad and starts calling people faggots.

"Still learning me." Pot, meet kettle.