Top Ten Coaches in NBA history

Top Ten Coaches in NBA history

Galileo's Point system:

win = 1 point
playoff win = 2 points
division title = 25 points
conference championship = 50 points
NBA championship = 100 points
coach of year = 100 points

ABA & BAA stats count 1/2

1. Phil Jackson; 20 years, 3238 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...acksph01c.html

1155 wins
229 playoff wins
13 division titles
2 conference champs
11 NBA champs
1 coach of year

2. Pat Riley; 24 years, 2977 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ileypa01c.html

1210 wins
171 playoff wins
17 division titles
4 conference champs
5 NBA champs
3 coach of year

3. Red Auerbach; 20 years, 2435.5 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...uerbre99c.html

995.5 wins
95 playoff wins
10 division titles
9 NBA champs
1 coach of year

4. Larry Brown; 30 years, 2029 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rownla01c.html

1212.5 wins
110 playoff wins
8.5 division titles
2 conference champs
1 NBA champ
2.5 coach of year

5. Don Nelson; 31 years, 1960 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...elsodo01c.html

1335 wins
75 playoff wins
7 division titles
3 coach of year

6. Greg Popovich; 16 years, 1908 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...opovgr99c.html

847 wins
118 playoffs wins
9 division titles
4 NBA champs
2 coach of year

7. Lenny Wilkens; 32 years, 1792 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ilkele01c.html

1332 wins
80 playoff wins
2 division titles
1 conference champ
1 NBA champ
1 coach of year

8. Jerry Sloan; 26 years, 1692 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...loanje01c.html

1221 wins
98 playoff wins
7 division titles
2 conference champs

9. Bill Fitch; 25 years, 1529 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...itchbi99c.html

944 wins
55 playoff wins
5 division titles
1 conference champ
1 NBA champ
2 coach of year

10. George Karl; 24 years, 1480 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...karlge01c.html

1074 wins
78 playoff wins
8 division titles
1 conference champ

BONUS STATS ON THE TOP 10:

50-win seasons:

Jackson 17
Riley 17
Popovich 14
Nelson 13
Sloan 13
Karl 11
Brown 9.5 (3 ABA counts as 1.5)
Wilkens 9
Auerbach 8
Fitch 5

Made playoffs:

Riley 21
Karl 21
Jackson 20
Brown 20 (4 ABA counts as 2)
Wilkens 20
Sloan 20
Nelson 18
Auerbach 18 (2 BAA counts as 1)
Popovich 15
Fitch 13

.500+ record:

Sloan 23
Brown 22 (4 ABA counts as 2)
Riley 21
Nelson 21
Wilkens 21
Karl 21
Jackson 20
Auerbach 17.5 (3 BAA counts as 1.5)
Popovich 15
Fitch 11

Sounds about right.

I think you forgot Daddy Rich

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...dalych99c.html

sons LMAO at anyone who thinks Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time. these words sum up his career ...

smoke and mirrors


Jackson never once in his career helped coach and guide a team from scratch. he was handed every team stacked with superstars on a silver platter. now if he would come back for a few years and coach a team like the T-Wolves or Bucks and guide them into the playoffs then maybe he would deserve some of the respect he gets.

Jackson wouldn't coach a raw Tony Parker into a superstar, fwiw...

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Originally Posted by Vinnie_Johnson

I think you forgot Daddy Rich

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...dalych99c.html

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Daly less points than Karl.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Daly less points than Karl.

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True he didn't coach as long he was a much better coach IMO

Titles are undervalued and COYs are overvalued.

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

Titles are undervalued and COYs are overvalued.

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It's all about the rings you are correct.:toast

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

Titles are undervalued and COYs are overvalued.

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why's that?

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Originally Posted by Vinnie_Johnson

It's all about the rings you are correct.:toast

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That's bullshit, fans pay to go see regular season games. Each NBA game is a promoted event that has value. My point system gives credit to winning a division title, that is an important accomplishment, like a conference title in high school or college sports.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

why's that?

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Because the COY is often given to "surprise" coaches over consistently good ones... example: Sam Mitchell over Jerry Sloan...

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

sons LMAO at anyone who thinks Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time. these words sum up his career ...

smoke and mirrors


Jackson never once in his career helped coach and guide a team from scratch. he was handed every team stacked with superstars on a silver platter. now if he would come back for a few years and coach a team like the T-Wolves or Bucks and guide them into the playoffs then maybe he would deserve some of the respect he gets.

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Jordan, Shaq and Kobe were all losing in the playoffs every season before Phil came along and they never won before he was their coach. Jordan and Shaq in particular were dominant players before Phil arrived but still kept losing until Phil got there. Enough said.

As for the point system, Championships are undervalued. A title should be 200 pts and a playoff win should be more than 2 points. This would move Pop over Nelson and Red over Riley as it should be.

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Because the COY is often given to "surprise" coaches over consistently good ones... example: Sam Mitchell over Jerry Sloan...

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Sloan gets lots of points for consistent excellence, he racks up wins, playoff wins, and division titles.

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

sons LMAO at anyone who thinks Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time. these words sum up his career ...

smoke and mirrors


Jackson never once in his career helped coach and guide a team from scratch. he was handed every team stacked with superstars on a silver platter. now if he would come back for a few years and coach a team like the T-Wolves or Bucks and guide them into the playoffs then maybe he would deserve some of the respect he gets.

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lol truth bombs son

:lol Don Nelson over Poppovich

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

sons LMAO at anyone who thinks Phil Jackson is the greatest coach of all time. these words sum up his career ...

smoke and mirrors


Jackson never once in his career helped coach and guide a team from scratch. he was handed every team stacked with superstars on a silver platter. now if he would come back for a few years and coach a team like the T-Wolves or Bucks and guide them into the playoffs then maybe he would deserve some of the respect he gets.

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Do you think a coach like Spo would have gotten Jordan to be a team player? Jackson was able to manange the personalitys of some of the best in the league and get the best out of them.

Only Galileo would be retarded enough to put a coach with a career record of 944-1106 at #9 alltime.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Only Galileo would be retarded enough to put a coach with a career record of 944-1106 at #9 alltime.

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Bill Fitch made the official top 10 NBA list of best coaches back in 1996, idiot, and that was before Pop even got started.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Only Galileo would be retarded enough to put a coach with a career record of 944-1106 at #9 alltime.

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:lmao:lmao:lmao

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Bill Fitch made the official top 10 NBA list of best coaches back in 1996, idiot, and that was before Pop even got started.

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That was fucking impressive when he led a team of Prime Bird, Prime Parish, Prime McHale, and Prime Maxwell to getting skunked by Milwaukee.

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Originally Posted by BUMP

:lol Don Nelson over Poppovich

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Nelson is the all-time leader in wins. But Pop will be able to catch him in the point system soon. Pop looks to be around at least 3 more years.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

That was fucking impressive when he led a team of Prime Bird, Prime Parish, Prime McHale, and Prime Maxwell to getting skunked by Milwaukee.

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OK, smarty pants, who do you put ahead of Fitch?

:downspin:

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Originally Posted by MattBonnerExperience

Do you think a coach like Spo would have gotten Jordan to be a team player? Jackson was able to manange the personalitys of some of the best in the league and get the best out of them.

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son Spo just basically did the exact same thing with the Heat. I guess we can now put him up there as an all time great according to some folks logic on here.

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Originally Posted by racm

Sounds about right.

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glad we have some IQ people here who get it.

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

son Spo just basically did the exact same thing with the Heat. I guess we can now put him up there as an all time great according to some folks logic on here.

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Lol good one. Phil actually got some development out of his stars. Spo just "inspired" them.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

OK, smarty pants, who do you put ahead of Fitch?

:downspin:

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Chuck Daly, George Karl

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

son Spo just basically did the exact same thing with the Heat. I guess we can now put him up there as an all time great according to some folks logic on here.

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Spo has a good start, but a LONG way to go to make the top 10 in this point system. No one on the list coached less than 16 seasons, and all had 20 or more except Pop.

Spo has been coach 4 years, that's it. He has racked up 450 some points.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

OK, smarty pants, who do you put ahead of Fitch?

:downspin:

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Coaches with .500+ records.

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Chuck Daly, George Karl

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Sorry, but Daly and Karl scored fewer points in the point system. They were close, but no cigar.

:hat

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Coaches with .500+ records.

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What if you have to coach teams with bad players?

:bang

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Sorry, but Daly and Karl scored fewer points in the point system. They were close, but no cigar.

:hat

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Your point system is a joke, B.... :lol

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Your point system is a joke, B.... :lol

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You show us a better point system, Einstein. My system was carefully formulated by mathematicians, scientists, and pother experts.

:lmao

Hey Galileo, use this points system and see what happens:

regular season win = 1 point
playoff appearance = 20 points
division title = 30 points
#1 seed in conference = 40 points
#1 seed in NBA = 50 points

playoff wins = 5 points
conference title = 100 points
NBA title = 200 points

Hey Galileo, use this points system and see what happens:

regular season win = 1 point
playoff appearance = 20 points
division title = 30 points
#1 seed in conference = 40 points
#1 seed in NBA = 50 points

playoff wins = 5 points
conference title = 100 points
NBA title = 200 points

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Originally Posted by Biggems

Hey Galileo, use this points system and see what happens:

regular season win = 1 point
playoff appearance = 20 points
division title = 30 points
#1 seed in conference = 40 points
#1 seed in NBA = 50 points

playoff wins = 5 points
conference title = 100 points
NBA title = 200 points

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not a good system, too much emphasis on playoffs. Not enough credit for coaches who slog it out for many decades.

:rollin

The OP should say "Coaches with the best win record"

It's hard to know who the best coaches are, but one good way to measure is by the production of those they've coached. What did they go on to do after receiving this coaching?

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Originally Posted by Galileo

What if you have to coach teams with bad players?

:bang

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Like Olajuwon and Bird?

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Originally Posted by racm

Jackson wouldn't coach a raw Tony Parker into a superstar, fwiw...

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Parker a superstar ?













:lmao

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Originally Posted by Galileo

not a good system, too much emphasis on playoffs. Not enough credit for coaches who slog it out for many decades.

:rollin

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So, hypothetically speaking, a coach that goes 30-52 every year for 30 years is automatically a better coach than a coach that coaches for 3 years, wins 65 games a year, wins 2 titles, then retires?

Honestly, I think a better system than the one you listed would be the same exact point system, divided by years. The idea that a mediocre coach that coaches for long enough is automatically a good coach is an abomination.

Larry Brown over all of them, Pop under that, then the others with stacked teams.

Larry took the fucking Pistons to the Finals and beat the shit out of one of the most stacked teams since the Dream Team, with basically nobody. He took the 76ers to the Finals with only AI being notable. He's coached teams to much better records than they've had before.

Pop was handed Dave and Tim, granted, but his coaching staff and front office, and himself as president of basketball operations and head coach, have annually built and fielded the winningest team in any professional sport though a decade. Bringing people like Manu and Tony along for 10 years and maintaining their respect and their desire to remain with the team, all the while building around them with pieces that compliment the big 3 (Bonner not withstanding), Pop has to be up there in the top 3 coaches of all time in terms of pure coaching, pure player/coach relationship quality.

Phil was a manager of personalities, whatever that means. Had Phil worked with his team for a few years and finally gotten over the hump, that's one thing, but Jordan wrote Phil's ticket for the rest of his life by association. The Bulls wanted to shit can Phil but Mike said "He goes I go". I admire that in Phil, but the Bulls knew that Phil wasn't the reason for the wins. Pop hasn't gotten the same treatment from the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by lefty

Parker a superstar ?













:lmao

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When you get your face on the front of NBA Live, you're a superstar.

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Originally Posted by DMC

When you get your face on the front of NBA Live, you're a superstar.

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:lol nba live

"Phil was a manager of personalities"

"Phil helped them all get along"

blah blah blah


sons Phil Jackson was nothing more than a glorified babysitter when you really think about it.

"glorified babysitter" can be the description of 80% of the NBA's head coaches. Doc Rivers is considered a great coach and he does is say "Hustle! Defense!"

yea but when you're handed the likes of Michael Jordan and Shaq along with solid role players like Scottie Pippen, Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant, etc. ... I'm sure its sooooo tough!!! all you have to do is make sure they somewhat get along on the court and show up on time.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

"glorified babysitter" can be the description of 80% of the NBA's head coaches. Doc Rivers is considered a great coach and he does is say "Hustle! Defense!"

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Also : " Rondo ! You can do it ! "

How many titles did Rivers win before KG and Allen came to Boston again?

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

son Spo just basically did the exact same thing with the Heat. I guess we can now put him up there as an all time great according to some folks logic on here.

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putting him up there would be an insult to the other coaches on the list. philibeaner never did nothing to help this team or to make the team better, and our success this year should be owed to bron's personal efforts only tbh

Any point system should also dock some points for losses.

Division titles also are a worthless barometer, imo

Any point system should also dock some points for losses.

Division titles also are a worthless barometer, imo

Not sure if Phil deserves GOAT status or Riley. Hardly a gap between the two, Pop is solid #3 tho

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Nelson is the all-time leader in wins. But Pop will be able to catch him in the point system soon. Pop looks to be around at least 3 more years.

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Retarded logic imho considering all his teams had obvious flaws. I will give him props for being innovative but that doesn't put him above a coach who's won 4 titles.

you could sign a dead corpse to be the coach of the Heat next season and he could "lead" them to atleast 50 wins so all-time win totals are meaningless to me

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Only Galileo would be retarded enough to put a coach with a career record of 944-1106 at #9 alltime.

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

So, hypothetically speaking, a coach that goes 30-52 every year for 30 years is automatically a better coach than a coach that coaches for 3 years, wins 65 games a year, wins 2 titles, then retires?

Honestly, I think a better system than the one you listed would be the same exact point system, divided by years. The idea that a mediocre coach that coaches for long enough is automatically a good coach is an abomination.

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No way you hold an NBA coaching job for 30 years unless you are a great coach. As for the short term comet coach, yeah, he might be good, but you are not hall-of-fame status after 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Blake

Any point system should also dock some points for losses.

Division titles also are a worthless barometer, imo

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I considered that, I originally was going to give 2 points for a regular season win, then dock one point for a loss, but decided against it.

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Originally Posted by BUMP

you could sign a dead corpse to be the coach of the Heat next season and he could "lead" them to atleast 50 wins so all-time win totals are meaningless to me

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A lot of 'super" teams did not win a ring. The 2010/11 Heat come to mind, as do the Sixers back in '77 with George McGinnis & Doctor J. Same goes for the Sampson/Olajuwon tandem and there are others.

All timne wins means you are a great coach, because you need to hold a job for a long time.

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Originally Posted by BRHornet45

yea but when you're handed the likes of Michael Jordan and Shaq along with solid role players like Scottie Pippen, Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant, etc. ... I'm sure its sooooo tough!!! all you have to do is make sure they somewhat get along on the court and show up on time.

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Once again you can say that for all coaches. Besideds an NBA title isn't exactly an easy thing to get, ask John Stockton or Charles Barkley.

New bonus stats have been added to the original post.

should deduct points for games lost imho, and don nelson ain't nowhere close to the talk of the top. pop & george carl are the only two on that list who're still coaching in the league today imho

pop is hands down the #1 of all time if it's a list of coaches with the greatest abilities & skills of coaching, if you choose the spurs & play the dynasty mode on any version of nba live or 2k game you'd struggle to even make the playoffs tbh. pop is quite a genius who makes the most of the limited resources he has

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Originally Posted by Latarian Milton

should deduct points for games lost imho, and don nelson ain't nowhere close to the talk of the top. pop & george carl are the only two on that list who're still coaching in the league today imho

pop is hands down the #1 of all time if it's a list of coaches with the greatest abilities & skills of coaching, if you choose the spurs & play the dynasty mode on any version of nba live or 2k game you'd struggle to even make the playoffs tbh. pop is quite a genius who makes the most of the limited resources he has

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If there was an adjustment for small market coaches, then I agree, Pop would be # 1.

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Originally Posted by Galileo

New bonus stats have been added to the original post.

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I don't know what you did different. Still looks just as sucky.

The biggest glaring problem with this approach is that you need to find a way to normalize the variant amounts of years coached (for example points per year) in order for anyone to take this even a quarter of the way seriously.

The fact that COY winners are almost always fired at the most 3-4 years after winning the award shows how meaningless and stupid it is. It's the award given to a coach who burns his starters out playing 40 MPG during the regular season so he gets the award because everyone says, "Wow! He really got them to over achieve!" Then a few years later people realize that the coach will never lead a serious playoff run because he doesn't manage minutes or integrate the bench. Tom Thibodeau is the latest example of this.

Jerry Sloan is also one of the most overrated coaches of all time. His teams have always been mediocre defensively, his offense consists of whoring the 1 4 pick and roll with 3 point shooters to space. That offense is great at racking up wins and maybe a few lucky playoff runs when the team's conference has a really down year (like the 1997 or 1998 Western Conference) but it'll never win a championship especially with the mediocre defense Sloan's teams played. He's a glorified Mike D'antoni, the difference being he actually expects some kind of discipline and intelligence from his players.

Not having Daly, who I consider one of the top 3, if not the best coach in the history of the NBA, makes the list useless.

Coach of the year is pointless.

Championships are era/player dependent.

Same with division title/conference championships.

Also, no way is a CoY = championship, and 2 conference championship = 1 championship.

Not trying to say your list sucks, just that I have serious reservations about the methodology.

IMO, Larry Brown is still the best coach in NBA history at getting the most out of his teams. His weakness is the fact he always seems to abruptly burn bridges and leave his team on bad terms and there are certain players he gives up on way too quickly and refuses to even try developing. The way his teams always played defense is why I put him near or at the top.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

IMO, Larry Brown is still the best coach in NBA history at getting the most out of his teams. His weakness is the fact he always seems to abruptly burn bridges and leave his team on bad terms and there are certain players he gives up on way too quickly and refuses to even try developing. The way his teams always played defense is why I put him near or at the top.

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Brown's biggest flaw is he's an asshole and a whiner who doesn't know how to build rapport with his players. That's a pretty big flaw. He's a great X and O guy but a terrible manager of people, and being able to manage personalities is just as important as being technically proficient when it comes to coaching.

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Originally Posted by namlook

Brown's biggest flaw is he's an asshole and a whiner who doesn't know how to build rapport with his players. That's a pretty big flaw. He's a great X and O guy but a terrible manager of people, and being able to manage personalities is just as important as being technically proficient when it comes to coaching.

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Something people keep forgetting, tbh. Can't win shit when you can't keep the egos happy

5. Don Nelson; 31 years, 1960 points

1335 wins
75 playoff wins
7 division titles
0 NBA champs
3 coach of year

6. Greg Popovich; 16 years, 1908 points

847 wins
118 playoffs wins
9 division titles
4 NBA champs
2 coach of year

Sorry man, but these point systems are a farse, and these very numbers prove it. So Nelson, with ZERO championships is rated higher than Pop simply because he coached longer and had one more media biased coach of the year award.

No offense to you, but this is exactly you can't have systems like this decide these matters...see the BCS for more evidence.

What about Red Auerbach's championships? Do we weight them less since there were less than half the teams in the league when he got some of those?

My point is, there are too many variables to account for...context changes every thing. We see this with all sports, look at football for example...how are we ever going to compare who was a better shut-down corner out of Deion Sanders and Darrelle Revis. When Deion played, corners could use their hands. With the modern rules, a DB can't touch a receiver, so as of right now, what Darrelle Revis is doing is more impressive.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

IMO, Larry Brown is still the best coach in NBA history at getting the most out of his teams. His weakness is the fact he always seems to abruptly burn bridges and leave his team on bad terms and there are certain players he gives up on way too quickly and refuses to even try developing. The way his teams always played defense is why I put him near or at the top.

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Sloan got FAR more out of less talented teams than Brown did. Brown should only get 1/2 credit for the Pistons title in '04 since that team wasn't even put together by him...he pulled a Philip and took them over after they had been on the cusp for years. Carlisle gets 1/2 credit for that ring...if memory serves me correct, Dumars was responsible for the Sheed pick up, which finally put them over the top, and Brown didn't even like the Rasheed Wallace addition because he wasn't "his type of guy".

Jerry Sloan showed that he could consistently keep a team competitive regardless of the talent on his roster.

Where's Rick Adleman?

Originally Posted by BRHornet45

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yea but when you're handed the likes of Michael Jordan and Shaq along with solid role players like Scottie Pippen, Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant, etc. ... I'm sure its sooooo tough!!! all you have to do is make sure they somewhat get along on the court and show up on time.

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Originally Posted by MattBonnerExperience

Once again you can say that for all coaches. Besideds an NBA title isn't exactly an easy thing to get, ask John Stockton or Charles Barkley.

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I'm with BR here. The fundamental thing your missing is that Jackson never took a small market team to a championship. You can't compare Utah and Phoenix markets to the likes of LA, Chicago, New York etc.

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Originally Posted by Indazone

Where's Rick Adleman?

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That is a good question, I always thought he was a solid coach...13, 14?

Chuck Daly has to be in the mix at 11 or 12.

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Originally Posted by callo1

5. Don Nelson; 31 years, 1960 points

1335 wins
75 playoff wins
7 division titles
0 NBA champs
3 coach of year

6. Greg Popovich; 16 years, 1908 points

847 wins
118 playoffs wins
9 division titles
4 NBA champs
2 coach of year

Sorry man, but these point systems are a farse, and these very numbers prove it. So Nelson, with ZERO championships is rated higher than Pop

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Championships need to be given much more weight. Give 200 pts for a championship and see where the coaches are ranked.

Any list that has Larry Brown and Don Nelson over Pop is seriously flawed.

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Originally Posted by MajorMike

Any list that has Larry Brown and Don Nelson over Pop is seriously flawed.

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Mikan, Russell, KAJ, Magic, Bird, MJ, Shaq, Duncan & Kobe.

All the teams that won multiple championships needed the above players and they were the league best over an extended period of time (Lebron should join that list pretty soon).

Coaches wouldn't win squat without the greatest of players, but some coaches like Brown, PJ, Riley & Pop can bring a little more to the table than others. Case in point, Philibeaner. With Lebron on his side, it actually looked like he out-coached Scott Brooks in the Finals. :wow

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Originally Posted by Blake

I don't know what you did different. Still looks just as sucky.

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I didn't change the point system, I just added some new stats to look at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by namlook

Championships need to be given much more weight. Give 200 pts for a championship and see where the coaches are ranked.

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If you win the championship, you not only get the 100 points, you get 32 points for the playoff wins and probably at least 55 points for regular season wins and probably another 25 for the division win. So if you win a ring, you probably got 200 points, worth about 5 seasons of a .500 coach.

:blah

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Originally Posted by Indazone

Where's Rick Adleman?

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He just missed out on the top 10, he was in the top 15 I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Drachen

The biggest glaring problem with this approach is that you need to find a way to normalize the variant amounts of years coached (for example points per year) in order for anyone to take this even a quarter of the way seriously.

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The longer a coach is around, the greater is his impact. You don't become a legendary coach in a short number of years, except maybe in the rare case of an early and unexpected death (like Knute Rockne in college football).

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

The fact that COY winners are almost always fired at the most 3-4 years after winning the award shows how meaningless and stupid it is. It's the award given to a coach who burns his starters out playing 40 MPG during the regular season so he gets the award because everyone says, "Wow! He really got them to over achieve!" Then a few years later people realize that the coach will never lead a serious playoff run because he doesn't manage minutes or integrate the bench. Tom Thibodeau is the latest example of this.

Jerry Sloan is also one of the most overrated coaches of all time. His teams have always been mediocre defensively, his offense consists of whoring the 1 4 pick and roll with 3 point shooters to space. That offense is great at racking up wins and maybe a few lucky playoff runs when the team's conference has a really down year (like the 1997 or 1998 Western Conference) but it'll never win a championship especially with the mediocre defense Sloan's teams played. He's a glorified Mike D'antoni, the difference being he actually expects some kind of discipline and intelligence from his players.

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The COY is the coaches equivalent of the MVP.

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

IMO, Larry Brown is still the best coach in NBA history at getting the most out of his teams. His weakness is the fact he always seems to abruptly burn bridges and leave his team on bad terms and there are certain players he gives up on way too quickly and refuses to even try developing. The way his teams always played defense is why I put him near or at the top.

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Larry Brown is also one of the few on this list who was a successful college coach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

The COY is the coaches equivalent of the MVP.

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If that was the case, we wouldn't see mediocre coaches like Sam Mitchell, Mike D'antoni, and Byron Scott winning it as frequently as they do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pass1st

Something people keep forgetting, tbh. Can't win shit when you can't keep the egos happy

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Underhanded Phil Jackson lobbying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

The COY is the coaches equivalent of the MVP.

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I disagree. The MVP has never been a shitty player. It's never going to happen.

CotY is the coaches equivalent to Adam Morrison's rings.


Multiple Winners
6 - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5 - Michael Jordan
5 - Bill Russell
4 - Wilt Chamberlain
3 - Larry Bird
3 - Magic Johnson
3 - Moses Malone
2 - LeBron James
2 - Tim Duncan
2 - Karl Malone
2 - Steve Nash
2 - Bob Pettit



2010-11 Tom Thibodeau Chicago
2009-10 Scott Brooks Oklahoma City
2008-09Mike BrownCleveland
2007-08Byron ScottNew Orleans
2006-07Sam MitchellToronto
2005-06Avery JohnsonDallas
2004-05Mike D'AntoniPhoenix
2003-04Hubie BrownMemphis
2002-03Gregg PopovichSan Antonio
2001-02Rick CarlisleDetroit
2000-01Larry BrownPhiladelphia
1999-00Doc RiversOrlando
1998-99Mike DunleavyPortland
1997-98Larry BirdIndiana
1996-97Pat RileyMiami
1995-96Phil JacksonChicago
1994-95Del HarrisLos Angeles Lakers
1993-94Lenny WilkensAtlanta
1992-93Pat RileyNew York
1991-92Don NelsonGolden State
1990-91Don ChaneyHouston
1989-90Pat RileyLos Angeles Lakers
1988-89Cotton FitzsimmonsPhoenix
1987-88Doug MoeDenver
1986-87Mike SchulerPortland
985-86Mike FratelloAtlanta
1984-85Don NelsonMilwaukee
1983-84Frank LaydenUtah
1982-83Don NelsonMilwaukee
1981-82Gene ShueWashington
1980-81Jack McKinneyIndiana
1979-80Bill FitchBoston
1978-79Cotton FitzsimmonsKansas City

Quote:

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Originally Posted by callo1

That is a good question, I always thought he was a solid coach...13, 14?

Chuck Daly has to be in the mix at 11 or 12.

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Daly did not coach all that long and just missed the top 10.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

If that was the case, we wouldn't see mediocre coaches like Sam Mitchell, Mike D'antoni, and Byron Scott winning it as frequently as they do.

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It is more difficult to quantify the value of a coach than a player. That's one reason why long service is a must for the all time great coaches.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

The fact that COY winners are almost always fired at the most 3-4 years after winning the award shows how meaningless and stupid it is. It's the award given to a coach who burns his starters out playing 40 MPG during the regular season so he gets the award because everyone says, "Wow! He really got them to over achieve!" Then a few years later people realize that the coach will never lead a serious playoff run because he doesn't manage minutes or integrate the bench. Tom Thibodeau is the latest example of this.

Jerry Sloan is also one of the most overrated coaches of all time. His teams have always been mediocre defensively, his offense consists of whoring the 1 4 pick and roll with 3 point shooters to space. That offense is great at racking up wins and maybe a few lucky playoff runs when the team's conference has a really down year (like the 1997 or 1998 Western Conference) but it'll never win a championship especially with the mediocre defense Sloan's teams played. He's a glorified Mike D'antoni, the difference being he actually expects some kind of discipline and intelligence from his players.

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Didn't Pop get COY for doing the exact opposite? :downspin:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by racm

Didn't Pop get COY for doing the exact opposite? :downspin:

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There was no big turn around team this year, otherwise Pop gets nothing.

Collins was a shoo-in except he shit the bed late in the season but a timely injury in Chicago made him look better than he is, but he's not a bad coach.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMC

There was no big turn around team this year, otherwise Pop gets nothing.

Collins was a shoo-in except he shit the bed late in the season but a timely injury in Chicago made him look better than he is, but he's not a bad coach.

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iffa coulda woulda shoulda, blah, blah....

:lmao

Sort of fits, but:

Too much stock in longevity. Simply coach for 40 years, never win a title, you can be "best coach ever" under those standards.

No inclusion of penalty for coaches leaving teams when they're in rebuilding phase and joining one that's on the upswing with a huge ceiling (Riley, Jackson). Which inflates their stats significantly.

No bonus for ratio of good seasons to bad. Example: Popovich has had 0 losing seasons, 0 sub .500 seasons, and 0 sub .600 seasons. Never missed playoffs. Worst season: .610%. There's no props for that? Because last time I checked, a guy who's never worse than .610 is better than a guy who's .500+ for 15 seasons out of 20, but under .500 for 5, but his total wins exceed the total wins of the 15 season coach so he's listed higher. Kinda dropped the ball with that, but I appreciate the time put into the list, and the coming up with a system.

I just personally don't see how Pop can be any worse than 4th. Don Nelson ranked higher because he coaches twice as long? He has less playoff wins, less division titles, and 0 titles to 4 despite playing twice as long, and is ranked higher.

Definitely need to change the standards a little imo. But again, making a system and whatnot was a good idea. It's just a bit flawed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

iffa coulda woulda shoulda, blah, blah....

:lmao

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I don't think you get it.

Pop did great, the team did better than expected, but the award almost always goes to a turn around team and Philly was right there with it until late season.

That's why the anomaly of selecting a coach based on a different criteria other than "hottest team vs last year".

Who got it last year? Thibs. Why? Bulls finished top of the league and vs previous year, better overall improvement than any other team.

It's not a coulda, woulda wtf ever. It's not even about Collins. It's about the CotY award system.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

Sort of fits, but:

Too much stock in longevity. Simply coach for 40 years, never win a title, you can be "best coach ever" under those standards.

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:lmao

Pop had a losing record in 1996-97, though I'll give you that he's never had a full losing season.

Also, I think Pop got the award this season because of how the Spurs would go on a tear every now and then. Finishing with a better regular season record with a single All-Star, an old Duncan, and missing Ginobili for half of the season than the eventual champion probably merited it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by racm

Pop had a losing record in 1996-97, though I'll give you that he's never had a full losing season.

Also, I think Pop got the award this season because of how the Spurs would go on a tear every now and then. Finishing with a better regular season record with a single All-Star, an old Duncan, and missing Ginobili for half of the season than the eventual champion probably merited it.

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And because no other coach/team stood out.

With all Phil's success, he's won 1 CotY to go with Kobe's 1 season MVP. Shows their truth worth.

The only time Phil won COY was when the Bulls went on their 72 win season.

And true. Every other contender rode their stars into the ground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE

Jerry Sloan is also one of the most overrated coaches of all time. His teams have always been mediocre defensively, his offense consists of whoring the 1 4 pick and roll with 3 point shooters to space. That offense is great at racking up wins and maybe a few lucky playoff runs when the team's conference has a really down year (like the 1997 or 1998 Western Conference) but it'll never win a championship especially with the mediocre defense Sloan's teams played. He's a glorified Mike D'antoni, the difference being he actually expects some kind of discipline and intelligence from his players.

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Agree for the most part. Utah's really never used 3 point shooters to space, just bodies around the perimeter. Mark Eaton's biggest role in the offense was to stand 35 feet away, then dive into the lane for offensive rebounds.

The 90's Jazz teams actually were pretty good defensively, so that's really the only thing I disagree with you on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

Sort of fits, but:

Too much stock in longevity. Simply coach for 40 years, never win a title, you can be "best coach ever" under those standards.

No inclusion of penalty for coaches leaving teams when they're in rebuilding phase and joining one that's on the upswing with a huge ceiling (Riley, Jackson). Which inflates their stats significantly.

No bonus for ratio of good seasons to bad. Example: Popovich has had 0 losing seasons, 0 sub .500 seasons, and 0 sub .600 seasons. Never missed playoffs. Worst season: .610%. There's no props for that? Because last time I checked, a guy who's never worse than .610 is better than a guy who's .500+ for 15 seasons out of 20, but under .500 for 5, but his total wins exceed the total wins of the 15 season coach so he's listed higher. Kinda dropped the ball with that, but I appreciate the time put into the list, and the coming up with a system.

I just personally don't see how Pop can be any worse than 4th. Don Nelson ranked higher because he coaches twice as long? He has less playoff wins, less division titles, and 0 titles to 4 despite playing twice as long, and is ranked higher.

Definitely need to change the standards a little imo. But again, making a system and whatnot was a good idea. It's just a bit flawed.

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No one has ever coached 40 years in the NBA. Even if they did, and won a couple titles, they'd be hard pressed to catch Jackson in points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Top Ten Coaches in NBA history

Galileo's Point system:

win = 1 point
playoff win = 2 points
division title = 25 points
conference championship = 50 points
NBA championship = 100 points
coach of year = 100 points

ABA & BAA stats count 1/2

1. Phil Jackson; 20 years, 3238 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...acksph01c.html

1155 wins
229 playoff wins
13 division titles
2 conference champs
11 NBA champs
1 coach of year

2. Pat Riley; 24 years, 2977 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ileypa01c.html

1210 wins
171 playoff wins
17 division titles
4 conference champs
5 NBA champs
3 coach of year

3. Red Auerbach; 20 years, 2435.5 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...uerbre99c.html

995.5 wins
95 playoff wins
10 division titles
9 NBA champs
1 coach of year

4. Larry Brown; 30 years, 2029 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rownla01c.html

1212.5 wins
110 playoff wins
8.5 division titles
2 conference champs
1 NBA champ
2.5 coach of year

5. Don Nelson; 31 years, 1960 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...elsodo01c.html

1335 wins
75 playoff wins
7 division titles
3 coach of year

6. Greg Popovich; 16 years, 1908 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...opovgr99c.html

847 wins
118 playoffs wins
9 division titles
4 NBA champs
2 coach of year

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UPDATE:

Since this post, Pop has racked up;

120 regular season wins = 120 points
16 playoff wins = 32 points (not counting tonight's game)
2 division titles = 50 points
1 conference championship = 50 points
1 coach of year award = 100 points

352 news points

new total 2260 points for Pop.

Pop now moves into 4th of all time, passes Nelson and Brown.

Trails only Auerbach, Riley and Jackson. Auerbach within sight.

Go CIA Pop!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galileo

Top Ten Coaches in NBA history

Galileo's Point system:

win = 1 point
playoff win = 2 points
division title = 25 points
conference championship = 50 points
NBA championship = 100 points
coach of year = 100 points

ABA & BAA stats count 1/2

1. Phil Jackson; 20 years, 3238 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...acksph01c.html

1155 wins
229 playoff wins
13 division titles
2 conference champs
11 NBA champs
1 coach of year

2. Pat Riley; 24 years, 2977 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ileypa01c.html

1210 wins
171 playoff wins
17 division titles
4 conference champs
5 NBA champs
3 coach of year

3. Red Auerbach; 20 years, 2435.5 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...uerbre99c.html

995.5 wins
95 playoff wins
10 division titles
9 NBA champs
1 coach of year

4. Larry Brown; 30 years, 2029 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...rownla01c.html

1212.5 wins
110 playoff wins
8.5 division titles
2 conference champs
1 NBA champ
2.5 coach of year

5. Don Nelson; 31 years, 1960 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...elsodo01c.html

1335 wins
75 playoff wins
7 division titles
3 coach of year

6. Greg Popovich; 16 years, 1908 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...opovgr99c.html

847 wins
118 playoffs wins
9 division titles
4 NBA champs
2 coach of year

7. Lenny Wilkens; 32 years, 1792 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ilkele01c.html

1332 wins
80 playoff wins
2 division titles
1 conference champ
1 NBA champ
1 coach of year

8. Jerry Sloan; 26 years, 1692 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...loanje01c.html

1221 wins
98 playoff wins
7 division titles
2 conference champs

9. Bill Fitch; 25 years, 1529 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...itchbi99c.html

944 wins
55 playoff wins
5 division titles
1 conference champ
1 NBA champ
2 coach of year

10. George Karl; 24 years, 1480 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...karlge01c.html

1074 wins
78 playoff wins
8 division titles
1 conference champ

BONUS STATS ON THE TOP 10:

50-win seasons:

Jackson 17
Riley 17
Popovich 14
Nelson 13
Sloan 13
Karl 11
Brown 9.5 (3 ABA counts as 1.5)
Wilkens 9
Auerbach 8
Fitch 5

Made playoffs:

Riley 21
Karl 21
Jackson 20
Brown 20 (4 ABA counts as 2)
Wilkens 20
Sloan 20
Nelson 18
Auerbach 18 (2 BAA counts as 1)
Popovich 15
Fitch 13

.500+ record:

Sloan 23
Brown 22 (4 ABA counts as 2)
Riley 21
Nelson 21
Wilkens 21
Karl 21
Jackson 20
Auerbach 17.5 (3 BAA counts as 1.5)
Popovich 15
Fitch 11

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UPDATE:

4. Greg Popovich; 18 years, 2390 points

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...opovgr99c.html

967 wins
149 playoffs wins
11 division titles
5 NBA champs
1 conference champ
3 coach of year