Popovich, Spurs content to stand pat

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

I don't think Matty's contract becomes movable without adding a first round pick until the trade deadline at the earliest

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Completely disagree. I actually think coaches like Mik:lol Br:lolwn would be all over Matty if he would be available.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Completely disagree. I actually think coaches like Mik:lol Br:lolwn would be all over Matty if he would be available.

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:lol

Well we do disagree. How many times is that now?

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

We'll see. By the standards of this summer's market (Hibbert, Lopez, Gordon), Ibaka and Harden are both max or near-max players. I don't believe OKC will ever have 4 max players on their roster. Time will tell.

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They can meet in the middle. The Thunder can sell them on taking slightly less than market value on three year deals, with player options for the fourth. That allows Harden and Ibaka to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. Get paid now and probably win at least one championship with this group, while getting paid even more later (but sooner than they otherwise would if they were locked in for four or five years) and having an opportunity to decide at that point what their top priority is: Chasing more rings with this group or going somewhere else, maxing out on their earning potential and playing a more prominent role.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

They can meet in the middle. The Thunder can sell them on taking slightly less than market value on three year deals, with player options for the fourth. That allows Harden and Ibaka to have their cake and eat it too, so to speak. Get paid now and probably win at least one championship with this group, while getting paid even more later (but sooner than they otherwise would if they were locked in for four or five years) and having an opportunity to decide at that point what their top priority is: Chasing more rings with this group or going somewhere else, maxing out on their earning potential and playing a more prominent role.

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Accepting less than market value is the only way it gets done. Presti is going to have to be quite a salesman to pull that off, but it's not impossible.

Even if Spurs don't do another move this summer, their team won't likely be the same than last year. Their backup PG should be different with Pop giving this spot to Mills, De Colo or Joseph. Given how bad Neal as PG was, especially in the playoffs, it should be an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

:lol

Well we do disagree. How many times is that now?

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Hey, we do agree in a bunch of stuff too :toast

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Hey, we do agree in a bunch of stuff too :toast

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:toast

Actually, if they improve defensively they have a legitimate shot. With a full training camp and good health as well as a bunch of luck they can get it done, but without a significant improvement in defense they will fall again.

Ages of the current players under contract (age when the season begins the last week of Oct. 2012)

Tim Duncan.........36
Manu Ginobili.......35
Stephen Jackson..34
Matt Bonner........32
Boris Diaw...........30
Tony Parker.........30
Gary Neal............28
Tiago Splitter.......27
Danny Green........25
Nando De Colo.....25 (younger than Danny by 1 day)
Patty Mills...........24
DeJuan Blair.........23
Kawhi Leonard......21
Cory Joseph.........21

(Derrick Byars......28, has a non-guaranteed contract)

Team average (without Byars)....27.9 (Very rough estimate based on whole numbers tbh, imho, iirc, and etc., somesuch and the like)

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Originally Posted by Solid D

Ages of the current players under contract (age when the season begins the last week of Oct. 2012)

Tim Duncan.........36
Manu Ginobili.......35
Stephen Jackson..34
Matt Bonner........32
Boris Diaw...........30
Tony Parker.........30
Gary Neal............28
Tiago Splitter.......27
Danny Green........25
Nando De Colo.....25 (younger than Danny by 1 day)
Patty Mills...........24
DeJuan Blair.........23
Kawhi Leonard......21
Cory Joseph.........21

(Derrick Byars......28, has a non-guaranteed contract)

Team average (without Byars)....27.9

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You have to weigh the average minutes for each player into the true equation for team age. Can't give Duncan and Joseph the same weight when averaging the team age. The age will ramp up when player minutes are taken into account.

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Originally Posted by rascal

You have to weigh the average minutes for each player into the true equation for team age. Can't give Duncan and Joseph the same weight when averaging the team age. The age will ramp up when player minutes are taken into account.

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Agreed. Have at it.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

The Spurs may have no other choice than to stand pat, but in doing so they've not solved any of the issues that plagued them a few months ago. I certainly understand the financial constraints the Spurs are under. That's just the way it is. Still, if the Spurs start next season with exactly the same team, as presently constructed, then will continue to be defensively inferior and a notch below the big dogs on the block - OKC Thunder - for yet another season and THAT is a concern.

This was all made very clear in the recent playoff series. Looking at both sides of the coin, scoring points is one thing and the Spurs can do that pretty well. Yet the Thunder clamped down on the Spurs and were able to generate key stops at critical moments. They did so by taking away the Spurs strengths, negating their pick-n-roll offense and thus killed their ability to score. On the other side, the Thunder were able to raise their level of offensive play when they most needed it. They literally scored with ease - off turnovers, runouts, offensive rebounds and putbacks, etc. The veteran Spurs were left powerless to do anything about it.

Stand pat all you want so long as everyone knows that improvement for this team IS NOT coming from within - contrary to what Pop and RC have told us so far. Improvement must come from one or two positional upgrades, which the Spurs. at this moment, are in no position to make. This isn't a good receipe - especially for team who has 2 major stars on the wrong side of 30 years old. Osmosis is not going to close the talent and skill-level gap between the Spurs and the Thunder.

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OKC beat us because they hit a freakish number of outside jumpers when they needed them, and KD was in Beast Mode for 4 straight games. If their bigs didn't hit 22/25 and KD didn't have 16pts in the 4th in game 4, we win the series 4-1. I don't see a huge skill difference between the two sides.

And I think you underestimate the possible improvement from within the team given a full pre-season. Remember, we only had Jax and Diaw for about 20 games before the playoffs. The other thing I'll mention is that our bench stopped scoring against OKC, but with a full year of Patty running the backup PG I think that'll be less of an issue. I think there's plenty of room for improvement in this team. You're right that D is the issue, but who knows what kind of mid-season or deadline trades might be worked to improve that... hell, add an enforcer like K-Mart and the front court starts to look a lot tougher.

Anyway, I don't share your pessimism. I think we'll be right up there again, and with a few breaks could go all the way. It's a long-shot, but at this point in Tim and Manu's career, everything is! ;)

Ruff, you mentioned Patty Mills with a full year. Consider this. Patty is only 23 (will be 24 when the season starts), he hasn't reached his full potential and will continue to gain valuable experience this summer and then after the Olympics under the guidance of the Spurs' player dev. staff. Some interesting possibilities there.

Adding a tough interior player like Martin is intriguing but he signed for $2.5M (partial MLE, I believe) with the Clips late last season. The Spurs would have to move Blair's contract and get K-Mart cheaper than the Clips got him for. Not sure how long he'll be a FA.

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Originally Posted by rascal

You have to weigh the average minutes for each player into the true equation for team age. Can't give Duncan and Joseph the same weight when averaging the team age. The age will ramp up when player minutes are taken into account.

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Fixed
http://www.urbanizedmusic.com/images...arrow_down.gif

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Originally Posted by Solid D

Ages of the current players under contract (age when the season begins the last week of Oct. 2012)

Tim Duncan.........36
Manu Ginobili.......35
Stephen Jackson..34
Matt Bonner........32
Boris Diaw...........30
Tony Parker.........30
Gary Neal............28
Tiago Splitter.......27
Danny Green........25
Nando De Colo.....25 (younger than Danny by 1 day)
Patty Mills...........24
DeJuan Blair.........23
Kawhi Leonard......21
Cory Joseph.........21

(Derrick Byars......28, has a non-guaranteed contract)

Team average (without Byars)....27.9 (Very rough estimate based on whole numbers tbh, imho, iirc, and etc., somesuch and the like)

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

OKC beat us because they hit a freakish number of outside jumpers when they needed them, and KD was in Beast Mode for 4 straight games. If their bigs didn't hit 22/25 and KD didn't have 16pts in the 4th in game 4, we win the series 4-1. I don't see a huge skill difference between the two sides.

And I think you underestimate the possible improvement from within the team given a full pre-season. Remember, we only had Jax and Diaw for about 20 games before the playoffs. The other thing I'll mention is that our bench stopped scoring against OKC, but with a full year of Patty running the backup PG I think that'll be less of an issue. I think there's plenty of room for improvement in this team. You're right that D is the issue, but who knows what kind of mid-season or deadline trades might be worked to improve that... hell, add an enforcer like K-Mart and the front court starts to look a lot tougher.

Anyway, I don't share your pessimism. I think we'll be right up there again, and with a few breaks could go all the way. It's a long-shot, but at this point in Tim and Manu's career, everything is! ;)

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The problem I see is that older teams don't necessarily get better. Typically, they've already reached their threshold and without adding to the core, they can only hope to be ready and healthy come playoff time. In looking at the rest of the roster beyond the Big Three, the question becomes where will the improvements come from? Obviously Leonard, Green and possibly Splitter should continue an upward surge in consistency and production. And I'll give you the fact that Mills has a chance to really help upgrade the backup PG position. Outside of that, where are the incremental improvements with the rest of the rotation? And let's not forget that this team has a very flawed rotation of bigs, two of which (Bonner and Blair) are incapable of garnering floor time in the playoffs because of their skill limitations. That translates into 2 wasted roster spots, too much dependence on Duncan and a continued level of defensive inferiority. I really like the suggestion of adding K-Mart to this group. Subbing him for either Bonner or Blair would help immensely, which gets back to my argument of 1 or 2 positional upgrades needed for the Spurs to keep pace and try to close the gap.

On the flip side, younger teams do get better and OKC is certainly chief among them. OKC is obviously a very talented, extremely young team. However, their biggest advantage is they're figuring out how to win and paying the apprencticeship dues along the way. With each failed playoff series, they're coming back hungrier and more motivated than the previous year. There is every reason to believe that trend will continue and they'll be incrementally better again next year.

Add to that hugely improved perimeter D. Gone were the days when creaky Finley and RJ started on the wings.

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Originally Posted by racm

Add to that hugely improved perimeter D. Gone were the days when creaky Finley and RJ started on the wings.

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It's a fair point. Jack is a better defender than RJ plus Boris Diaw is a surprisingly good post defender for his height. Not since Robert Horry, have the Spurs had someone (to help Timmy) as adept at defending post-ups and battles on the block. Boris even surprised Pop.

Soild - do you think Boris really surprised Pop? I mean, we were all discussing how Boris was a solid post defender (especially when engaged) and it was not that big of a surprise to see him do well there IMO.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Soild - do you think Boris really surprised Pop? I mean, we were all discussing how Boris was a solid post defender (especially when engaged) and it was not that big of a surprise to see him do well there IMO.

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If you take Pop at his word, then yes. He said so in his Summer League interview in Vegas the other day.

I think Diaw struck Pop initially as simply a passing stretch 4.

http://www.nba.com/video/games/hawks...vich_intv.nba/

Yeah, true racm. DPG21920, here is the interview.. toward the end (6 or 7 minutes in). He said he didn't even know Boris was a defender but he was very, very good at it.

Thanks, Solid. I can't believe that would be that big of a surprise to Pop when it seemed to be pretty common knowledge around here. I wonder if coaches get so caught up with their own team that they really don't keep up around the league?

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Originally Posted by Solid D

It's a fair point. Jack is a better defender than RJ plus Boris Diaw is a surprisingly good post defender for his height. Not since Robert Horry, have the Spurs had someone (to help Timmy) as adept at defending post-ups and battles on the block. Boris even surprised Pop.

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Tim still needs help protecting the rim, I'm shocked Spurs don't go after Whiteside.