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I will never get over how stupid of decision it was to invade that country.
Ron Paul takes reasonable principles to illogical ends, but here he nailed just about every point. Too bad he ended the statement making reference to a fantasy that the American people would be asked to sacrifice anything (i.e., higher taxes, draft, etc.). Still a great moment though. I'll give him his props for that.
We have had to sacrifice something.... our civil liberties.... Ron bless
I will admit that I am almost always in favor of toppling violent dictators, but the Iraq War has been a complete debacle. The post war period will go down as one of America's all time worst foreign policy disasters. Joe Biden was right, the country should have been split in 3 from the start. Instead we created a Shia dominated country that led to the rise of Iran as a regional power, and a far greater threat than Saddam could have ever hoped to be. Now it seems Iraq is helping Iran skirt the sanctions we have put on them:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/wo...ml?_r=1&emc=na
But when Obama fulfilled dubya's agreement to leave Iraq, the Repugs trashed Obama for "losing Iraq", for "cut and run", etc. :lol
Iraq and Afghanistan will be proven to be lost American causes, always were, always will be. Like VN, a 100% waste of US and invaded coutries' blood and treasury.
Ron paul has always been the only one in politics with any sense. These fuckers get bought off and serve their corporate masters, outside of the ones who are just out of the loop and don't have much power. What we need is to more closely follow congress and hold them accountable. We need private investigators on every one of their asses, and prison time at the first sign of corruption.
The iraq war and foreign policy has ruined my generation, ruined our future. Destroyed our economy. George Bush should have to answer to milliions of young men and women for his crimes.
the country was doomed to decline with the bullshit immigrants policy it had, and it was NOT bush or clinton's fault that the borders & airlines were left wide open and millions of chinks/[email protected] allowed to move in tbh
I should spend more time on this forum to realize how dump some posters really areQuote:
Originally Posted by Latarian Milton
Your "b" is upside-down dummy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazil
And yes, Latarian is very dumb. Probably as dumb as the child of his name is. He probably worships that child. I have had him on IGNORE for years now since he never has anything of value to say.
Hindsight is 20/20 tbh.
Not speaking about Ron Paul...just the Ron Paul nuthuggers.
:lobt2:Hindsight? Really? That war was a bad idea from the start, tbh, beginning from when nobody knew for sure whether there actually were WMD's....Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
Additionally, hindsight is valid and important if we want to learn from our past mistakes.....
Iraq was an epic fail and a clusterfuck. We were dumb to buy into the propaganda and the lies.
If you say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob1983
How are the Iraqi people today?
Are they afraid of a benevolent leader like Saddam Hussein today?
lol trillions in debt just to "liberate" some foreign country. i think those trillions would have been better spent on the betterment of america in millions of different ways.
we are NOT the world police.
Except lots of people were saying these exact things before the war... Like Ron Paul. And lots of others. If you supported the war, you don't just get to shrug and spout out cliches.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
The intelligence was exaggerated or completely fabricated. There was no post-invasion plan. The plan that was crafted was poorly conceived and poorly executed. There was no firm exit criteria or strategy. We lost thousands of lives and billions of dollars. The region is no more stable than when Saddam was in power. And gas is no cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
I credit Ron Paul for his foresight, but it's easy to look at the litany of failures above and ask "how could we have been so stupid?" I guess that's my point about hindsight. I respect you, but I don't believe "lots of others" saw this coming and voiced their concern while we were rolling through Baghdad as celebrating Iraqis were tearing down the statue of Saddam.
But, I could be wrong.
The actual invasion was pretty fucking awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
They just screwed the pooch after that.
true, im dumb even by a 4th grader's standard and congrats to u for finally finding someone on this site who has less schooling years than you tbh :lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
yeah, great win the other team's Junior Varsity doesn't even show to play the World Champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Just kill yourself Boutox. It's inevitable. Just do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
talk about ,moving the goal post lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
you are way smarter than WCQuote:
Originally Posted by Latarian Milton
Considering that their current government is highly unstable and the country is on the verge of civil war, I'd say things are still pretty shitty for the Iraqi people nowadays despite the years of undeclared American meddling, tbh..... in fact, our undeclared wars and foreign aid payments are continually proven to hurt countries more than they help, tbh....Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
The rest of the world pitchs in and we all work together in building a huge wall surrounding the Middle East. Nothing goes in and nothing but oil comes out. If that whole region of the world exploded tomorrrow the world would be a hell of a lot better off. What do they do besides ...BOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will survive this, unless we help their enemies like we did in Libya.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
This clusterfuck pretty much made most Middle Eastern countries hate America even more. You know what that creates? Blowback. I do agree with Ron Paul on this shit. You have to look at this from the perspective of Iraq and other countries that America has done nation building in. How would we like it if China came over to America and had bases and occupied America to "liberate" us from bad guys? Would you be happy or thrilled about it? And yes, America should apply the Golden Rule when it comes to foreign policy.
really ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Latarian Milton
:lmao ignorant
:lmao dumb
you really think US spent trillions just to "liberate" some foreign country ? :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mavs>spurs
Here's one for Yoni and other suckers who believed Iraq wasn't invaded for oil, but for Peace, Love, Democracy and The American Way. :lol
Whatever Happened to Iraqi Oil?
By the September deadline, a majority of the parliament was against the law and -- a remarkable victory for the trade unions -- it was not passed. It’s still not passed today.
Given the political capital the Bush administration had invested in the passage of the oil law, its failure offered Iraqis a glimpse of the limits of U.S. power, and from that moment on, Washington’s influence began to wane.
Things changed again in 2009 when the Maliki government, eager for oil revenues, began awarding contracts to them even without an oil law in place. As a result, however, the victory of Big Oil is likely to be a temporary one: the present contracts are illegal, and so they will last only as long as there’s a government in Baghdad that supports them.
This helps explain why the government's repression of trade unions increased once the contracts were signed. Now, Iraq is showing signs of a more general return to authoritarianism (as well as internecine violence and possibly renewed sectarian conflict).
But there is another possibility for Iraq. Years before the Arab Spring, I saw what Iraqi civil society can achieve by organizing: it stopped the world’s superpower from reaching its main objective and steered Iraq onto a more positive course.
Many times since 2003 Iraqis have moved their country in a more democratic direction: establishing trade unions in that year, building Shi'a-Sunni connections in 2004, promoting anti-sectarian politicians in 2007 and 2008, and voting for them in 2009. Sadly, each of these times Washington has pushed it back toward sectarianism, the atmosphere in which its allies thrive. While mainstream commentators now regularly blame the recent escalation of violence on the departure of U.S. troops, it would be more accurate to say that the real reason is they didn’t leave far sooner.
Now, without its troops and bases, much of Washington’s political heft has vanished. Whether Iraq heads in the direction of dictatorship, sectarianism, or democracy remains to be seen, but if Iraqis again start to build a more democratic future, the U.S. will no longer be there to obstruct it. Meanwhile, if a new politics does emerge, Big Oil may discover that, in the end, it was mission unaccomplished.
http://www.tomdispatch.com/dialogs/print/?id=175586
maybe so:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
http://ricks.foreignpolicy.com/posts...dGV_4w.twitterQuote:
Following the arrests in December of the bodyguards of Finance Minister Rafi Issawi, Sunnis took to the streets, revealing their widespread sense of alienation in the new Iraq and demanding the end of what they consider a government policy to marginalize them. As with other protests in the Arab world, they were initially driven by legitimate grievances. But against the backdrop of provincial elections, little was done to address the concerns of the protestors — despite calls to do so from the top Shia cleric, Ayatollah Sistani. …
Last week, the Iraqi Army entered Hawija, near Kirkuk, to arrest people accused of attacking Iraqi Security Forces. In the ensuing violence, 200 people were killed. There are reports of desertions from the Iraqi Army. Kurds have moved peshmerga into positions in the disputed territories. Tribes are forming militias to protect themselves from the Iraqi Army. Five Iraqi soldiers were killed in Anbar — and the province has been put under curfew. Ten satellite channels, including al-Jazeera, have been banned, accused of spreading sectarianism. Bombs exploded in Shia towns. The speaker of parliament called for the government to resign and for early elections.