It's the economy, Stupid!

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Originally Posted by ElNono

What part you don't understand? Government will issue vouchers for a set amount, and if it pays for govt medicare good, if it doesn't seniors pony up the difference. It's a voucher program. There's no option NOT to receive a voucher.

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55 and older untouched. This already beats the Obama plan.

And, if you read it closely, it's only if government Medicare costs more than a private vendor that seniors, wanting to stay on Medicare, have to pony up the difference.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Or a reduction of receipts without a similar reduction in spending. It doesn't have to be 'out of control'.

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But, the tax cuts have always resulted in increased receipts.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

All that said, both teams love themselves bigger and bigger government.

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That said, tax cuts aren't to blame.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

55 and older untouched. This already beats the Obama plan.

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lol goalpost move

And 'untouched' means with the same cuts as ACA. Same shit while fucking up the younger generations. I'm not '55 and older', so I really don't give a shit if that stays the same or not.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

lol goalpost move

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No, I added a paragraph. No goalpost was moved. Seniors can stay on the current plan without any increase cost so long as the current plan is less expensive than a private plan.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

And 'untouched' means with the same cuts as ACA.

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A repeal of Obamacare will put the $716 billion back.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Same shit while fucking up the younger generations. I'm not '55 and older', so I really don't give a shit if that stays the same or not.

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I'm just below 55, and I would prefer the voucher plan. Hell, it beats the Obama plan of just driving it into the ground with nothing being available when I'm ready to retire.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

But, the tax cuts have always resulted in increased receipts.

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Certain tax hikes, like Clinton's, have too. So it isn't a property of just 'cuts'.

The question is: have the cuts spurred the growth necessary to outpace the rates pre-cut? And the answer to that in every instance is NO.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

That said, tax cuts aren't to blame.

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Tax cuts financed strictly by debt are simply irresponsible and another form of welfare.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Certain tax hikes, like Clinton's, have too. So it isn't a property of just 'cuts'.

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Not at the same rate.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

The question is: have the cuts spurred the growth necessary to outpace the rates pre-cut? And the answer to that in every instance is NO.

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Well, if government spends it all, that'll fuck things up.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Tax cuts financed strictly by debt are simply irresponsible and another form of welfare.

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Tax cuts resulting in an increase in revenue pay for themselves, it's the spending that's being paid for by debt.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

No, I added a paragraph. No goalpost was moved. Seniors can stay on the current plan without any increase cost so long as the current plan is less expensive than a private plan.

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So the increased healthcare costs is shifted to seniors. It's a terrible plan and it doesn't address cost at all. Barry's ACA is crap, but it's 100x better than that shit.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

A repeal of Obamacare will put the $716 billion back.

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But under Ryan's plan those $716 billion go away again.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I'm just below 55, and I would prefer the voucher plan.

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I don't. At all. I don't think ACA is the solution either, but it can be tweaked.
Anything that could mean I have to keep forking off money past 65+ is a no go.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Not at the same rate.

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No, as I've shown, cuts didn't prop the economy as expected and thus reduced the growth rate. The country was actually growing faster with the old, higher tax rates.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, if government spends it all, that'll fuck things up.

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Well, that's what both (D) and (R) do...

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Tax cuts resulting in an increase in revenue pay for themselves, it's the spending that's being paid for by debt.

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As explained, the only "pay for themselves" if the revenue increase outpaces the the revenue growth pre-cuts. In the case of the Bush cuts, that was not the case.

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Originally Posted by clambake

i hear ya. just when they were ready to trickle down........

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lol