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Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Ryan on abortion exceptions: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Vice presidential candidate Paul Ryan says that he personally believes that rape is just another “method of conception” and not an excuse to allow abortions.
During an interview with WJHL this week, Ryan was asked his view about Rep. Todd Akin, who recently asserted that women could not get pregnant from “legitimate rape.”
“Specifically where you stand when it comes to rape, and when it comes to the issue of should it be legal for a woman to be able to get an abortion if she’s raped?” WJHL reporter Josh Smith wondered.
“I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,” Ryan explained. “But let’s remember, I’m joining the Romney-Ryan ticket. And the president makes policy.”
“And the president, in this case the future President Mitt Romney, has exceptions for rape, incest, and life of the mother, which is a vast improvement of where we are right now.”
MSNBC’s Steve Benen noted that responses like this were probably the reason that Romney is refusing to take any questions about Akin or abortion.
“In this case, when Ryan says ‘the method of conception’ is irrelevant, he’s talking about rape,” Benen wrote. “In other words, the Republicans’ vice presidential nominee clearly believes the government should force women to take their pregnancy to term if they are impregnated by a rapist.”
“Republicans can only distance themselves so much from Todd Akin before we realize they share his views.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/08/2...of-conception/
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
Nbadan
So?
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Dan is in the club where they think its impossible to get pregnant from a rape. God bless
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
"'I’m very proud of my pro-life record, and I’ve always adopted the idea that, the position that the method of conception doesn’t change the definition of life,' Ryan explained. 'But let’s remember, I’m joining the Romney-Ryan ticket. And the president makes policy.'"
Everything about that excerpt is absolutely pathetic. Ryan is getting systematically exposed.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
1st: This is intellectually dishonest to claim any form of conception isn't "life" if conception itself is life. So in that Ryan is consistent.
2nd: His disclaimer here,"but I don't make policy, so ignore my beliefs if they offend you" is pandering at it's finest.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
DMC
2nd: His disclaimer here,"but I don't make policy, so ignore my beliefs if they offend you" is pandering at it's finest.
There is at least a portion of the electorate that assesses both portions of a presidential ticket when making voting decisions.
So, try as he might to deflect policy issues to Romney, at some point, Ryan needs to be pressed on his policy views and the things that he might do if he is forced into a presidency without having been elected to that position by the people.
It surely bears on the votes people will cast in November.
Imagine if a Democratic presidential candidate named a running mate who was an avowed communist. I'm sure, in that situation, the Right would just sit by and say "Oh, well, he's not the person making policy, so his views on things like that are irrelevant."
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
It would be so fucking simple for these idiots to say...yes...those are my personal views on how I lead my personal life and I stand by them but I have no intention of forcing my views on anyone else through legislation.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It would be so fucking simple for these idiots to say...yes...those are my personal views on how I lead my personal life and I stand by them but I have no intention of forcing my views on anyone else through legislation.
That would make the politian accountable for living their life like that. God bless
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It would be so fucking simple for these idiots to say...yes...those are my personal views on how I lead my personal life and I stand by them but I have no intention of forcing my views on anyone else through legislation.
Who's buying that though? Who can forget legislation like DOMA signed by Clinton?
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
FromWayDowntown
There is at least a portion of the electorate that assesses both portions of a presidential ticket when making voting decisions.
So, try as he might to deflect policy issues to Romney, at some point, Ryan needs to be pressed on his policy views and the things that he might do if he is forced into a presidency without having been elected to that position by the people.
It surely bears on the votes people will cast in November.
Imagine if a Democratic presidential candidate named a running mate who was an avowed communist. I'm sure, in that situation, the Right would just sit by and say "Oh, well, he's not the person making policy, so his views on things like that are irrelevant."
Neither Romney nor Ryan can overturn Roe v. Wade. And I don't think either would differ on their selection of a Supreme Court Justice to be a strict constitutionalist.
I do agree though that the American people need to understand his views on a variety of issues because he is "a heartbeat away."
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
lol dems desperately trying to make abortion a major issue in this election.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
lol dems desperately trying to make abortion a major issue in this election.
That Akin dude set the table. That's why you just can't say things like that.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
The problem with the Ryan statement is that the two halves do not match. He can not claim to have such a strict view of life on the one hand and then hand off the responsibility to Romney on the other. I at least have respect for people who stand by what they believe. If he believes that life is life and there should be no exception for rape and incest, then have the guts to stand for that belief.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
lol dems desperately trying to make abortion a major issue in this election.
Republicans repeatedly acting as if they really are going to do something about abortion to pander to the religious right.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It would be so fucking simple for these idiots to say...yes...those are my personal views on how I lead my personal life and I stand by them but I have no intention of forcing my views on anyone else through legislation.
The people Ryan is pandering to WANT Ryan to force his views on others through legislation so it wouldn't make sense for him to say that.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
lol dems desperately trying to make abortion a major issue in this election.
:lmao What?
Republicans are the ones who pretend it's a major issue and that if they have power they'll overturn Roe v. Wade (even though George Bush never did anything when the Republicans had complete control of the white house and congress).
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
ploto
The problem with the Ryan statement is that the two halves do not match. He can not claim to have such a strict view of life on the one hand and then hand off the responsibility to Romney on the other. I at least have respect for people who stand by what they believe. If he believes that life is life and there should be no exception for rape and incest, then have the guts to stand for that belief.
:tu
That's the one thing I give Rick Santorum credit for. Of all the Republican candidates who spew homophobic and pro-life rhetoric in order to pander to bible thumpers, I think Santorum was the only one who sincerely believes it. Gingrich, Romney, Cain, Perry, and even imo Bachmann don't give two shits about abortion or gay marriage one way or another.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Bachmann definitely believes that shit. Doesn't her husband have some sham school that's supposed to set gay people straight?
I think you're right on the rest
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Neither Romney nor Ryan can overturn Roe v. Wade. And I don't think either would differ on their selection of a Supreme Court Justice to be a strict constitutionalist.
I think that's kind of the point. At this point, it probably only takes one extra justice to overturn Roe (and, potentially, some 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment cases). If the slate's wiped clean and Roe is no longer the law, a President who espouses beliefs like Ryan appears to have could -- particularly with a sympathetic Congress -- enact laws that existing precedent would deem unconstitutional.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
elpimpo3cc
ElCorso?
:lol
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
ploto
The problem with the Ryan statement is that the two halves do not match. He can not claim to have such a strict view of life on the one hand and then hand off the responsibility to Romney on the other. I at least have respect for people who stand by what they believe. If he believes that life is life and there should be no exception for rape and incest, then have the guts to stand for that belief.
I don't see the logic here. He was asked his view and gave it. If he wanted to caveat that his position would not necessarily reflect the policy of the Romney administration, isn't that a seperate issue than his belief?
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
symple19
Bachmann definitely believes that shit. Doesn't her husband have some sham school that's supposed to set gay people straight?
I think you're right on the rest
Those are rumors that they've denied, however some former patients have said he does try to perform "conversion therapy." IMO, if they truly believed all the homophobic stuff they say, they wouldn't deny allegations of giving "conversion therapy" as they'd think it was something good. The fact they vehemently deny giving "conversion therapy" means they know it's retarded.
Bachmann has also flip flopped on countless things she said several years ago that were absolutely batshit. Santorum stands by every batshit thing he's said regarding gay people and abortion, while he openly talks about playing with dead fetuses because he truly thinks a dead fetus = a dead human. If Bachmann truly thought "conversion therapy" worked, she wouldn't deny allegations her husband gives it.
Bachmann is just as full of bullshit as any other mainstream neocon but since she's a woman who's extremely emotional comes off as more sincere. Same thing with Sarah Palin to a lesser extent. People who knew Palin personally before 2008 say she could cuss with the best of 'em, was not religious at all, and fucked black men (lol Glen Rice).
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Neither Romney nor Ryan can overturn Roe v. Wade.
Neither Romney nor Ryan give a shit about overturning Roe v. Wade. The fact they can't overturn Roe v. Wade means they can campaign with a pro-life agenda and never actually have to live up to it.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
lol dems desperately trying to make abortion a major issue in this election.
Oh, wow. No, just no. For most people in this country, abortion is an issue that has been settled for quite some time. On the other hand, the GOP panders to a segment of society that wants desperately to overturn it and they apparently have gotten in a habbit of saying really stupid shit while doing this pandering.
The GOP not being able to articulate its own damn message well is not the Democrats doing. The GOP has no one to blame but themselves for not being able to walk without tripping over their own feet.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
FromWayDowntown
I think that's kind of the point. At this point, it probably only takes one extra justice to overturn Roe (and, potentially, some 1st, 4th, and 5th amendment cases). If the slate's wiped clean and Roe is no longer the law, a President who espouses beliefs like Ryan appears to have could -- particularly with a sympathetic Congress -- enact laws that existing precedent would deem unconstitutional.
Could happen I suppose, but I'm not convinced it's very likely. And I think the second point Ryan made was that he's not the guy at the top of the ticket making the decisions if the first big domino falls.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Could happen I suppose, but I'm not convinced it's very likely. And I think the second point Ryan made was that he's not the guy at the top of the ticket making the decisions if the first big domino falls.
He is if anything happens to Romney.
Ate you arguing that Ryan's policy stances are irrelevant to the 2012 election?
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
elpimpo3cc
nope bachmann's as bat shit as they come
http://www.rumproast.com/images/uplo...e-Bachmann.jpg
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
FromWayDowntown
He is if anything happens to Romney.
Ate you arguing that Ryan's policy stances are irrelevant to the 2012 election?
Not at all. Everyone should know the stances of both VP candidates on all issues and weigh them in their decision. I don't personally agree with Ryan, but I don't put much weight on this stance because there are several unlikely events that must occur for it to make a legislative impact.
But that's just me.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
It would be so fucking simple for these idiots to say...yes...those are my personal views on how I lead my personal life and I stand by them but I have no intention of forcing my views on anyone else through legislation.
Which would be bullshit. Someone running for the legislature who says their morals won't affect their judgement is already either an idiot or a liar. Take your pick.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
:lmao since GOP VP candidates are repeatedly shitty, Republicans have now developed the crutch that, "Whoever the VP is doesn't matter!"
Anyone who doesn't think Cheney's views had significant legislative impact from 2000-2008 is blind. That example alone proves that the VP's views are pretty important.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
DUNCANownsKOBE
:lmao since GOP VP candidates are repeatedly shitty, Republicans have now developed the crutch that, "Whoever the VP is doesn't matter!"
Anyone who doesn't think Cheney's views had significant legislative impact from 2000-2008 is blind. That example alone proves that the VP's views are pretty important.
Historically the VP doesn't matter. You just cited the lone exception in recent history. Congratulations.
I would also disagree with Ryan being a shitty pick.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Historically the VP doesn't matter. You just cited the lone exception in recent history. Congratulations.
So you admit the last Republican Vice President had significant influence. Glad we're clear there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AFBlue
I would also disagree with Ryan being a shitty pick.
Right, I'm sure that's why you're trying to argue he'll have minimal impact.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
DUNCANownsKOBE
So you admit the last Republican Vice President had significant influence.
Cheney's party affiliation has nothing to do with the dynamic that led to his larger than normal influence on administration policies. He was the one example of either party to exert that type of influence in the history of the office. So, why would I expect Ryan to be as influential when historically it doesn't bear out?
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
DUNCANownsKOBE
Right, I'm sure that's why you're trying to argue he'll have minimal impact.
Ryan is a smart pick. He's intelligent and articulate. He has a plan that, though criticized, will continue framing the argument of the president's (and democrats in congress) utter lack of one.
The economy and fiscal policy are the strengths of this ticket and those will be the two issues that decide this election; one way or the other.
Again, Ryan was a smart pick.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Cheney's party affiliation has nothing to do with the dynamic that led to his larger than normal influence on administration policies.
What do you think did lead to his exertion of larger than normal influence?
Be specific.
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
He was the one example of either party to exert that type of influence in the history of the office.
Unless you include all the examples where the vice president ended up being president.
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Ryan is a smart pick. He's intelligent and articulate. He has a plan that, though criticized, will continue framing the argument of the president's (and democrats in congress) utter lack of one.
Why does his plan matter if he doesn't have legislative influence?
You're talking out of both ends of your mouth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AFBlue
The economy and fiscal policy are the strengths of this ticket and those will be the two issues that decide this election; one way or the other.
How can Ryan give the ticket strengths if he won't have any influence?
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Originally Posted by
AFBlue
Again, Ryan was a smart pick.
I find it odd you're trying to minimize the influence such a "smart pick" is gonna have.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
This issue is waaaaaay more important than the economy --
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Not nearly as important as light bulbs. Thats for sure.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Originally Posted by
DUNCANownsKOBE
What do you think did lead to his exertion of larger than normal influence?
Be specific.
Dominating, Type A personality combined with a president that gladly deferred when he was in over his head.
Unless you include all the examples where the vice president ended up being president.
Just because they eventually became president doesn't mean they held any influence in the second seat.
Why does his plan matter if he doesn't have legislative influence?
You're talking out of both ends of your mouth.
How can Ryan give the ticket strengths if he won't have any influence?
I find it odd you're trying to minimize the influence such a "smart pick" is gonna have.
I'll address these collectively. He's a smart pick because he doesn't distract from the key issues of this election; the economy and government spending. He's articulate and intelligent, which makes flubs much less likely. He's pretty much the anti-Palin.
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DUNCANownsKOBE
Neither Romney nor Ryan give a shit about overturning Roe v. Wade. The fact they can't overturn Roe v. Wade means they can campaign with a pro-life agenda and never actually have to live up to it.
ok you'll probably never see me do this again...but it's important for right wingers to understand that their beliefs on abortion in the event of incest and rape is complete and utter BS..
Case in point: The Bible example of David and Bathsheba...For those who don't know it goes something like this...David was the King if Israel. Uriah was a soldier with a fine ass wife. David wanted this soldiers wife and went after her...He eventually busted a nut in her and she got pregnant. To cover it up he then had her husband put on the front line of a war so that he be killed and no one would ever know about but the lord then condemned that child to die...the same concept applies to rape...it's really pretty simple...
Here's the Biblical context:
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David gets up from his bed about the time his soldiers (and others) usually go to bed. As he is strolling on the roof of his palace, David happens to see something that was not meant to be seen -- a young woman cleansing herself, most likely a ceremonial cleansing ceremony done in keeping with the law. The woman is beautiful, and David decides that he wants her. He sends messengers to find out who she is. Their answer -- that she was Bathsheba, wife of Uriah the Hittite -- should have ended the matter, but David had no intention of being deprived of anything he wanted. He sent for the woman and lay with her.
For David, it was all over after that one night of self-indulgence. He did not want another wife; he did not even appear to want an affair, just a night of pleasure. But God had other plans. Bathsheba conceived and eventually sent word to David that she was pregnant. When David's efforts to deceive Uriah (and the people) into thinking Uriah had fathered this child, he had Uriah killed in battle with the help of Joab. After she had mourned for her husband, David brought Bathsheba into his home, taking her as his wife. Now at last, David hoped, it was over.
This thing which David had done displeased God, however, and God would give David no rest or peace until he had come to see his sin for what it was and repented of it. After some period of distress (see Psalm 32:3-4), God sent Nathan to David with a story, a story which deeply upset David. David was furious. He insisted that the rich man who stole the poor man's pet lamb deserved to die! Nathan then stopped David in his tracks with the words, “You are the man!” (2 Samuel 12:7). As David heard Nathan's recital of his sin, he broke, declaring to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord” (2 Samuel 12:13).
Nathan's response to David's confession was both comforting and disturbing. Although he deserved to die for his sins, David would not die because God had taken away his sin (12:13). What a relief these words must have been. But what followed would pierce David through: the son his sin had produced would die.
http://bible.org/seriespage/death-da...samuel-1214-31
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Ryan folds his principles to fake a show of unity
Following Akin Controversy, Romney Shifts Position On Abortion
"After coming out against abortion rights in 2005, Romney has argued that abortion should only be limited to rape, incest, or life of the mother — a position his running mate Paul Ryan echoed as recently as this week. Here is how Romney has previously described his beliefs:
– “I believe that abortion is the wrong choice except in cases of incest, rape, and to save the life of the mother.” [Boston Globe, 7/26/2005]
– “I am pro-life and believe that abortion should be limited to only instances of rape, incest, or to save the life of the mother.” [National Review, June 18, 2011]
– “QUESTION: Is there any abortion you would — you would accept? ROMNEY: Yes in — in the case of rape, incest or the risk to the life of the mother. I believe in those circumstances that abortion should be legal. [December 12, 2011]
Ryan opposes abortion in cases of rape or incest, but has said that he would back Romney on the issue. “Look, I’m proud of my record…. Mitt Romney is going to be the president; the president sets policy. His policy is exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. I’m comfortable with it because it’s a good step in the right direction. I’ll leave it at that.” He has previously argued that “the health exception would render this [abortion] ban virtually meaningless.”
Asked if Romney has expanded or changed his support for abortion, a campaign spokesperson replied “No,” but did not provide examples of where the candidate had previously backed a “health and life” exception.
The GOP platform does not explicitly include exceptions for rape, incest, health or life of the woman.
Update
Romney spokesperson Andrea Saul denies the shift to the Washington Post’s Greg Sargent: “Gov. Romney’s position is clear: he opposes abortion except for cases of rape, incest and where the life of the mother is threatened.”
"
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/20...n-on-abortion/
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Romney Tries to Claim that Abortion Not an Executive Branch Issue
“My position has been clear throughout this campaign,” Romney said. “I’m in favor of abortion being legal in the case of rape and incest, and the health and life of the mother….This is a matter in the courts, it’s been settled for some time in the courts.”
When the late-term abortion ban was being legislated during the Bush Administration, a guy named Paul Ryan said that such a health exception “would render (the ban) virtually meaningless.”
Andrea Saul, Romney’s spokeswoman, basically denied that Romney used the word health, saying that “Gov. Romney’s position is clear: he opposes abortion except for cases of rape, incest and where the life of the mother is threatened.” Maybe he’s had the position so recently, he can’t always articulate it properly.
Perhaps more important, Romney claimed that Presidents have no role in the abortion issue:
“Recognize this is the decision that will be made by the Supreme Court,” Romney told CBS. “The Democrats try and make this a political issue every four years, but this is a matter in the courts. It’s been settled for some time in the courts.”
Paul Ryan was quoted yesterday saying that the term “forcible rape” was “stock language”, which is why it was used in the No Taxpayer Funding For Abortion Act. I’m surprised he didn’t say “I don’t want to get wonky on you” beforehand.
Abortion, and more broadly women’s health and women’s rights, is on the ballot in November, as much as the Republican ticket would like it not to be.
http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/08/...-branch-issue/
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
“The Democrats try and make this a political issue every four years"
:lol
Repugs since 2010 have put up about 30 anti-abortion Congressional bills or amendments.
But the Democrats politicize a strictly legal issue? :lol
Gecko is a dumbfuck :lol
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
oops!
Mitt Romney’s Sister Assures Female Voters: ‘He’s Not Going To Be Touching’ Abortion
In an interview with National Journal, Mitt’s sister Jane Romney said that her brother won’t “be touching” the issue of abortion:
Mitt Romney would never make abortions illegal as president, Jane Romney said when National Journal asked her about the subject after a “Women for Mitt” event. “He’s not going to be touching any of that,” she said. “It’s not his focus.”
Democratic warnings that abortion rights are under threat are an ungrounded fear tactic, Jane Romney said. “That’s what women are afraid of, but that’s conjured,” she said. “Personally, I don’t think abortion should be used as a football in the political arena.” [...]
[The Republican platform] does not specify any exceptions.
But as Jane Romney put it, “Mitt’s much more in the middle” when it comes to abortion.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012...hing-abortion/
:lol
Where's the infamous Repug "message discipline"? :lol
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Re: Rape is just another ‘method of conception’
Quote:
Originally Posted by
boutons_deux
oops!
Mitt Romney’s Sister Assures Female Voters: ‘He’s Not Going To Be Touching’ Abortion
In an interview with National Journal, Mitt’s sister Jane Romney said that her brother won’t “be touching” the issue of abortion:
Mitt Romney would never make abortions illegal as president, Jane Romney said when National Journal asked her about the subject after a “Women for Mitt” event. “He’s not going to be touching any of that,” she said. “It’s not his focus.”
Democratic warnings that abortion rights are under threat are an ungrounded fear tactic, Jane Romney said. “That’s what women are afraid of, but that’s conjured,” she said. “Personally, I don’t think abortion should be used as a football in the political arena.” [...]
[The Republican platform] does not specify any exceptions.
But as Jane Romney put it, “Mitt’s much more in the middle” when it comes to abortion.
http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012...hing-abortion/
:lol
Where's the infamous Repug "message discipline"? :lol
I'd like to say good, now maybe some of those single issue voters will vote their pocketbook, but I know that is not going to happen.
