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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
101A
Seriously, RG; you're a smart guy.
Republicans suck. Democrats Suck. Everything else is details. Back away from the debate; stop trying to get either of these parties elected. "The lesser of two evils" is still fucking evil!
Intelligent people can agree to disagree - and they can compromise; from the first Constitutional Convention that has been a great strength of our nation - but these parties, what they have become; the people pulling the strings HAVE ALREADY FULLY COMPROMISED!! They agree on the important stuff; the stuff that enriches and empowers them and their friends - they maintain that power by keeping us distracted and arguing amongst ourselves about bullshit. It's why nothing ever really changes (From Compassionate Conservative to Hope and Change; wtf is different????)
Seriously, we STILL have the power to kick all the sumbitches out; to start over with a fresh slate of reasonable people. If we're too busy calling each other names; we'll never get to any type of a solution. They great tragedy of the past four years is we had TWO grass roots movements rise to shake up the Apple Cart; if they ever could have realized how much common ground there was between them, something could have be happening RIGHT NOW....unfortunately both movements were successfully co-opted by one of the big parties; and now they're just talking points on mailings soliciting donations.
Fuck them all.
The problem here is that both sides are not equal in the suckness department.
I have yet to see Democrats demonizing the moderates in their party and actively seeking to marginalize them the way the GOP has.
Sorry. I don't buy the "they are both equally sucky" narrative.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
TeyshaBlue
Actually, I understood the concept before your explanation. And, I was shocked that Romney is not actually the President. Thanks for the newsflash.
http://homerecording.com/bbs/images/...s/facepalm.gif
" ....president and his staff *do* place." So yes, the jerk in the oval office matters in the end analysis.
At this point we are both saying about the same thing, we are just getting at the same concept from different angles. No need for a facepalm. :lol
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
At this point we are both saying about the same thing, we are just getting at the same concept from different angles. No need for a facepalm. :lol
Don't make me use the nuclear facepalm!:lol
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
No context. No analysis. Just mindless aping of the preferred narrative.
That is the only way the right wants its propaganda disseminated.
Critical thinking about your ideas is not allowed, and is obviously indicative of some hidden agenda.
I think your bitching about someone having the nuts to call your bullshit for what it is, says volumes about your values.
I knew I shouldn't have added that last line, you ignored the rest of the post.
What I meant is, saying the media objected, indicates the media has a side. I have no objection to the media being critical of something a campaign puts out but, instead of parroting the opposing point of view, I'd prefer they force the campaign to explain theirs.
For instance, if the media, in this case, would ask the Republicans to explain how the Sebelius directive is gutting the Welfare work requirement instead of just saying nuh uh, fact checkers say your wrong, you might get a better response than, "we're not going to be lead around by fact checkers."
That's all I meant and it was a last minute addition to the post, after I saw the word object in the article. Sheesh!
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
I actually wouldn't mind Republicans winning this time around. I know no matter who's in office I'm going to be just fine. I just want to see if the Republican party can finish the job off of killing this country once and for all :lol I thought 2008 would have been the wake up call but I guess Americans just haven't been kicked in the teeth enough by the GOP to feel that real pain yet. If they're going to fall for this trickle down, deregulation nonsense AGAIN I say the American people deserve the ass kicking that's eventually coming.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Fabbs
Let's look at the first checked fact...
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RYAN: "And the biggest, coldest power play of all in Obamacare came at the expense of the elderly. ... So they just took it all away from Medicare. Seven hundred and sixteen billion dollars, funneled out of Medicare by President Obama."
THE FACTS: Ryan's claim ignores the fact that Ryan himself incorporated the same cuts into budgets he steered through the House in the past two years as chairman of its Budget Committee, using the money for deficit reduction. And the cuts do not affect Medicare recipients directly, but rather reduce payments to hospitals, health insurance plans and other service providers.
In addition, Ryan's own plan to remake Medicare would squeeze the program's spending even more than the changes Obama made, shifting future retirees into a system in which they would get a fixed payment to shop for coverage among private insurance plans. Critics charge that would expose the elderly to more out-of-pocket costs.
The fact-checker's "THE FACTS" doesn't even address what Ryan said. It bitches about Ryan's plan which, by the way, isn't the Romney/Ryan plan.
Where does it say that Ryan's statement Obama is going to cut $716 billion from Medicare is not factual?
Not to mention, this fact-check comes from the organization and bureau whose chief was fired for saying, Republicans "are happy to party with black people drowning."
With fact-checking like this, I can see why the Republican Campaign would say what they said.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
Went to lunch and fell behind on this thread. Can someone bring me up to speed with regards to whether or not yoni and rg have reached a consensus on which party is drowning closer to the surface yet?
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
Let's look at the first checked fact...
The fact-checker's "THE FACTS" doesn't even address what Ryan said. It bitches about Ryan's plan which, by the way, isn't the Romney/Ryan plan.
Where does it say that Ryan's statement Obama is going to cut $716 billion from Medicare is not factual?
Not to mention, this fact-check comes from the organization and bureau whose chief was fired for saying, Republicans "are happy to party with black people drowning."
With fact-checking like this, I can see why the Republican Campaign would say what they said.
You can attempt to parse the words as if some sort of armchair lawyer all you want, but the bottom line is that Mr Ryan's speech was deceptive in what he didn't say, not necessarily in what he did say.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
You can attempt to parse the words as if some sort of armchair lawyer all you want, but the bottom line is that Mr Ryan's speech was deceptive in what he didn't say, not necessarily in what he did say.
:lmao Okay, I'll bite, what didn't he say?
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
:lmao Okay, I'll bite, what didn't he say?
He didn't say that his budget also included the 716B cuts in Medicare.
He didn't say the GM plant closed down before Obama took office.
He didn't say he voted against Bowles Simpson.
He didn't say that he asked for stimulus for his backyard.
When you are attacking your opponent for these exact policy decisions it is intellectually dishonest to leave out these facts.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
He didn't say that his budget also included the 716B cuts in Medicare.
The Romney plan doesn't include the cuts, why would he talk about a plan his boss rejected?
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
He didn't say the GM plant closed down before Obama took office.
You're right and wrong; the plant actually ceased production in 2009 but, that wasn't his point. Obama stood at that plant in 2008 and promised those people if they elected him, his policies would ensure they would remain open for another 100 years.
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
He didn't say he voted against Bowles Simpson.
So?
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
He didn't say that he asked for stimulus for his backyard.
Debatable and, since many Republicans voted for the stimulus, I'm not sure who would care.
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
When you are attacking your opponent for these exact policy decisions it is intellectually dishonest to leave out these facts.
Except that he represents a Romney/Ryan ticket with policies that purport to be fundamentally different from what Congressman Ryan was proposing, even less than a year ago. In other words, he had no obligation to talk about his plans that aren't being incorporated by the candidate.
Glad I could help.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
What's the context of that statement?
The context of the statement is "we're not going to deal with criticism of fact checkers, whoever those might be"...
I'm not even sure why you're carrying water on this matter, tbh. The fact that the GOP strategists openly admit they're rolling along with bullshit because it's working for them is much more transparent than trying to spin the same bullshit, like Barry does.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
RandomGuy
Sorry. I don't buy the "they are both equally sucky" narrative.
Neither do I, re-read the post.
Years ago you were a reasonable guy; would actually listen to arguments. More and more you've become as much a mouthpiece for the Democrats as ANY poster in here is for the Republicans.
Sad.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
The Romney plan doesn't include the cuts, why would he talk about a plan his boss rejected?
You're right and wrong; the plant actually ceased production in 2009 but, that wasn't his point. Obama stood at that plant in 2008 and promised those people if they elected him, his policies would ensure they would remain open for another 100 years.
So?
Debatable and, since many Republicans voted for the stimulus, I'm not sure who would care.
Except that he represents a Romney/Ryan ticket with policies that purport to be fundamentally different from what Congressman Ryan was proposing, even less than a year ago. In other words, he had no obligation to talk about his plans that aren't being incorporated by the candidate.
Glad I could help.
Look, I thought it was a well crafted and potentially effective speech for the reasons you noted above. Now, it's up to the Obama political machine to go out and lay out the facts that I noted above. When the people hear these facts, I think they'll view Mr Ryan as a hypocrite. Hopefully that will help them make a more informed decision in November.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
Look, I thought it was a well crafted and potentially effective speech for the reasons you noted above. Now, it's up to the Obama political machine to go out and lay out the facts that I noted above. When the people hear these facts, I think they'll view Mr Ryan as a hypocrite. Hopefully that will help them make a more informed decision in November.
Oh, I think O's minions are going to be too busy spinning their own bullshit to address Ryans speech.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
ElNono
The context of the statement is "we're not going to deal with criticism of fact checkers, whoever those might be"...
And, considering the type of fact-checking going on, I can see why he would make that statement.
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Originally Posted by
ElNono
I'm not even sure why you're carrying water on this matter, tbh. The fact that the GOP strategists openly admit they're rolling along with bullshit because it's working for them is much more transparent than trying to spin the same bullshit, like Barry does.
They said the ad is effective. That's not admitting it's not factual.
And, again, I've already demonstrated where Sebelius own words validate the position.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
Look, I thought it was a well crafted and potentially effective speech for the reasons you noted above. Now, it's up to the Obama political machine to go out and lay out the facts that I noted above. When the people hear these facts, I think they'll view Mr Ryan as a hypocrite. Hopefully that will help them make a more informed decision in November.
How so? Is the Presidential candidate supposed to adopt every idea his Vice-Presidential pick has ever endorsed?
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
CosmicCowboy
Oh, I think O's minions are going to be too busy spinning their own bullshit to address Ryans speech.
I disagree. The dems are now losing on the medicare issue. You will be seeing the facts that I pointed out above in ads and incorporated into their stump speeches and their rebuttals at the DNC next week...as they should be. They would be fools to not go after Ryan and his record as a congressman.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
How so? Is the Presidential candidate supposed to adopt every idea his Vice-Presidential pick has ever endorsed?
Nope. But that does not mean they cannot use his congressional voting record against him.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
And, considering the type of fact-checking going on, I can see why he would make that statement.
:lol the problem you have with 'fact-checking' is well known. As long as it carries water for you team, you're ok with it. Otherwise, it's bullshit. Very boutons-esque...
Everybody doesn't live in your fantasy world though. There's plenty of fact checkers out there, and for a plethora of topics, there's not a lot to debate. If I post "Yoni told me he rapes little children", that's patently false, not a matter of opinion or degrees of truth...
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Originally Posted by
Yonivore
They said the ad is effective. That's not admitting it's not factual.
I don't expect them to admit anything. After all, their statement is saying basically that: facts are overrated.
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
It depends upon what the meaning of the word "is" is.
Parse away!
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Re: "We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"
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Originally Posted by
Th'Pusher
I disagree. The dems are now losing on the medicare issue. You will be seeing the facts that I pointed out above in ads and incorporated into their stump speeches and their rebuttals at the DNC next week...as they should be. They would be fools to not go after Ryan and his record as a congressman.
I hope we see those "facts" in Democrats ads; they're stupid rebuttals.
