"We're not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact checkers"

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I hope we see those "facts" in Democrats ads; they're stupid rebuttals.

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Your wish has been granted. We'll see how effective they are.

All fact-checking websites should just redirect to

http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

He didn't say he voted against Bowles Simpson.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

So?

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Really Yoni? You don't think it's a bit disgenuous to demonize a person for doing something that you did yourself?

If you can't see why this statement was misleading, then you certainly have red blinders on. There's a reason that Ryan didn't add that HE also voted against that regulation... because he wants people to believe that Obama was a bad person for torpedoing it. It wouldn't have done much good to point out that he was involved in killing it as well.

The same goes for Medicare. Sure, they're using "Romney's" budget plan now, but if so, why did he nominate Ryan for Veep? And what are we to think of a veep candidate who disparates Obama for "cutting" Medicare/Medicaid when his plan was willing to do the same thing?

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

All fact-checking websites should just redirect to

http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team

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:cry :cry Facts have a liberal bias! :cry :cry

It's too bad the Republicans have no fact-checking sites of their own. :(

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Really Yoni? You don't think it's a bit disgenuous to demonize a person for doing something that you did yourself?

If you can't see why this statement was misleading, then you certainly have red blinders on. There's a reason that Ryan didn't add that HE also voted against that regulation... because he wants people to believe that Obama was a bad person for torpedoing it. It wouldn't have done much good to point out that he was involved in killing it as well.

The same goes for Medicare. Sure, they're using "Romney's" budget plan now, but if so, why did he nominate Ryan for Veep? And what are we to think of a veep candidate who disparates Obama for "cutting" Medicare/Medicaid when his plan was willing to do the same thing?

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You're going to have to be specific because I'm confused about to which statements you're referring, Ryan made and which non-statements Th'Pusher says Ryan didn't make, that prove some deception.

Ryan was for cutting medicare before he was against it

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

The same goes for Medicare. Sure, they're using "Romney's" budget plan now, but if so, why did he nominate Ryan for Veep? And what are we to think of a veep candidate who disparates Obama for "cutting" Medicare/Medicaid when his plan was willing to do the same thing?

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Why are you being single minded?

Are you suggesting Ryan has no other qualities?

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

:cry :cry Facts have a liberal bias! :cry :cry

It's too bad the Republicans have no fact-checking sites of their own. :(

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Most sites I visit contain analysis of the actual point being considered. I don't go to "fact-checking" sites because of the biases already demonstrated in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Why are you being single minded?

Are you suggesting Ryan has no other qualities?

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He might, but he's most well known for his budget. And I think it's a negative that he's pretty much running away from his biggest accomplishment up-to-date, which was his bill proposal.

Look at the bills he's authored... they're not very impressive.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

He might, but he's most well known for his budget. And I think it's a negative that he's pretty much running away from his biggest accomplishment up-to-date, which was his bill proposal.

Look at the bills he's authored... they're not very impressive.

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Yes, Yes, Yes..

I understand. The stuff the M$M's put out for their lemmings.

Are you one of their lemmings?

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Ryan was for cutting medicare before he was against it

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Ryan still hasn't said he's opposed to his plan; he's just said he supports the Romney plan and, since he's second on the ticket, that's the way it's going to go.

Nothing says he couldn't have come around and realized his cuts might have been too drastic. But, that's not even the point. He could still hold the view that medicare should be cut (and what were the amounts he proposed - I don't know) but that it should not be cut to fund another government health care program without being hypocritical.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

All fact-checking websites should just redirect to

http://www.barackobama.com/truth-team

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I wonder what they think about your light bulbs thread... crofl

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Most sites I visit contain analysis of the actual point being considered.

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Like what sites?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Yes, Yes, Yes..

I understand. The stuff the M$M's put out for their lemmings.

Are you one of their lemmings?

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:lol more Vitamin I

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

You're going to have to be specific because I'm confused about to which statements you're referring, Ryan made and which non-statements Th'Pusher says Ryan didn't make, that prove some deception.

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When Ryan blasts Obama for not getting Bowles-Simpson passed, when he himself voted against it, there's misdirection there. Sure, it's technically true, but the reason he's blasting Obama is to make it sound like he's wrong for doing so. Let's put it this way... if he had blasted Obama, then said right afterwards, "Of course, I voted against the bill too...", he'd sound like an idiot. That's why it's misdirection.

If I said to you, "GTMO is a stain on America, and Obama broke his promise by keeping GTMO open! We shouldn't vote for him!", that message would be severely undercut if, say, I voted on a bill to keep GTMO open, or funded people who were lobbying to keep GTMO open, etc etc.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

When Ryan blasts Obama for not getting Bowles-Simpson passed, when he himself voted against it, there's misdirection there. Sure, it's technically true, but the reason he's blasting Obama is to make it sound like he's wrong for doing so. Let's put it this way... if he had blasted Obama, then said right afterwards, "Of course, I voted against the bill too...", he'd sound like an idiot. That's why it's misdirection.

If I said to you, "GTMO is a stain on America, and Obama broke his promise by keeping GTMO open! We shouldn't vote for him!", that message would be severely undercut if, say, I voted on a bill to keep GTMO open, or funded people who were lobbying to keep GTMO open, etc etc.

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You need to understand that dishonest people have a hard time recognizing dishonesty... it's their "normal"...

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Ryan still hasn't said he's opposed to his plan; he's just said he supports the Romney plan and, since he's second on the ticket, that's the way it's going to go.

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Considering that he's demonizing Obama for cuts that he proposed, one would think he's now against that part of the plan.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Nothing says he couldn't have come around and realized his cuts might have been too drastic. But, that's not even the point. He could still hold the view that medicare should be cut (and what were the amounts he proposed - I don't know) but that it should not be cut to fund another government health care program without being hypocritical.

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He should then make THAT argument. He should say, "These programs should not be cut to fund X project, they should be cut to fund our deficit!"

But he doesn't say that, because old people like Medicaid, and the Republicans will lose a bunch of old people's votes if they mess with Medicaid. It's pretty obvious pandering.

IMHO it should surprise no one that Ryan was for cutting medicare. The dude is supposed to be the ultimate fiscal Neo-con, decreasing spending across the board except for the military. That's what he is known for to the date and a big part of why he was picked up for the VP. Obviously there are those who agree or don't with some of his far fetched ideas. At the same time I think it's being intellectually dishonest to immediately associate his entire plan with Mitt Romney. Romney is simply much more of a moderate; shit, we all know about RomneyCare.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

You need to understand that dishonest people have a hard time recognizing dishonesty... it's their "normal"...

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It'd be almost like saying how important the sanctity of marriage is, after your third marriage.

Or saying how it's important to fund the poor when the budget you proposed cuts programs to those poor.

Or saying that we can only maintain peace through war.

Etc etc...

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

He might, but he's most well known for his budget. And I think it's a negative that he's pretty much running away from his biggest accomplishment up-to-date, which was his bill proposal.

Look at the bills he's authored... they're not very impressive.

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Actually, he's most well know for being a serious Congressman on budget issues. He's impressed Republicans and Democrats, alike and, he's worked for solutions, across the aisle.

He's not most well known for his budget. Until he was selected for Vice President, he was most well know for taking Obama to school on the fiscal mess created by Obamacare.

Want to see the video again?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Ryan still hasn't said he's opposed to his plan; he's just said he supports the Romney plan and, since he's second on the ticket, that's the way it's going to go.

Nothing says he couldn't have come around and realized his cuts might have been too drastic. But, that's not even the point. He could still hold the view that medicare should be cut (and what were the amounts he proposed - I don't know) but that it should not be cut to fund another government health care program without being hypocritical.

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More parsing. As I pointed out, the Obama political machine is already running with this. The DNC will be soaking in it (and whatever Romney says tonight) next week.

From a purely political point of view, I give the republicans credit as they seem to have effectively marginalized Ryan's biggest issues - his medicare proposals and his budget. Now we get to see the democrat's rebuttal.

Fuck it. I'll just enjoy the political theater.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

IMHO it should surprise no one that Ryan was for cutting medicare. The dude is supposed to be the ultimate fiscal Neo-con, decreasing spending across the board except for the military. That's what he is known for to the date and a big part of why he was picked up for the VP. Obviously there are those who agree or don't with some of his far fetched ideas. At the same time I think it's being intellectually dishonest to immediately associate his entire plan with Mitt Romney. Romney is simply much more of a moderate; shit, we all know about RomneyCare.

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To be fair, he was fucked if he did and fucked if he didn't attach to Romney platform...

If he decides to go maverick, well, you know what happened with the last republican VP nominee going that route...

If he instead plays the established party minion, he then looks 'DC as usual' as you point out.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

You need to understand that dishonest people have a hard time recognizing dishonesty... it's their "normal"...

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Boy, you got that right.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

It'd be almost like saying how important the sanctity of marriage is, after your third marriage.

Or saying how it's important to fund the poor when the budget you proposed cuts programs to those poor.

Or saying that we can only maintain peace through war.

Etc etc...

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Or bitching about mothers having kids they can't afford while mandating they have those same kids...

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Boy, you got that right.

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:lol no doubt