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Really people? Really? You're going to protest in several different countries because a movie was made that is obviously meant to antagonize? It's a horrible, MST3K-worthy movie, that was likely overdubbed with antagonistic comments. What the hell are you protesting? The fact that someone made a shitty video? No government anywhere is backing this up, you fucking retards.
It's times like these where my inner devil says, "Why the fuck are we trying to help these morons? It's useless."
That's not your inner devil, that's your logic talking to you.
Answer: OilQuote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Nothing more, nothing less. Its God's divine will that the most sought after resource on the planet be underneath its least useful and most hateful denizens.
OIL? did somebody say OIL?
How Coal Brought Us Democracy, and Oil Ended It: Lessons from the New Book “Carbon Democracy”
Long before politicians mewled helplessly about the power of “Big Oil”, carbon-based fuels were shaping our very political, legal, intellectual, and physical structures. It was, for instance, coal miners who brought us the right to vote. Israel’s founding had a lot to do with British fears of Palestinian labor unrest in coastal energy complexes. And the European Community was a post-WWII experiment to switch that continent to oil, a task begun before World War I by British conservatives to defeat their domestic political opponents. Glass-Steagall crimped financial flows, partially at the behest of the oil industry. In fact, you can’t understand modern democratic or third world political structures without understanding energy, and particularly, coal and oil. That’s the contention of Tim Mitchell’s new book, Carbon Democracy Political Power in the Age of Oil, a history of the relationship between carbon-based fueling sources and modern political systems. It’s a book that tackles a really big subject, in a sweeping but readable fashion, and after reading it, it’s hard to imagine thinking about political power the same way again.
Everything in our politics flows through dense carbon-based energy sources, and has for three to four hundred years. For instance, the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a pivotal moment in America’s strategic outlook. America, a global hegemon whose empire was weakening, seized the second largest oil deposits in the world as a way of preventing its economic and political decline. Was there any precedent for this kind of action? As it turns out, yes. The last declining global hegemon, Great Britain, also engaged in a brutal and highly controversial British occupation of Iraq, in the 1920s, pressed aggressively by the well-known British conservative, Winston Churchill. Churchill supported this occupation not just because he wanted Iraq’s oil, but because he wanted to defeat democratic forces – particularly militant coal miner unions – at home. Churchill and conservative elites running through British history (most recently Margaret Thatcher) understood that as long as the British power grid, and more importantly the military, was dependent on radical coal miners, his left-leaning labor opponents would be able to demand higher wages, social insurance, voting rights, and a share of the economic gains of the British economy. He preferred to have the British economy running on oil, so he sought imperial strategies to ensure access to resources without being reliant on his political opponents. Globally, in fact, the switch from coal to oil was a fight about labor.
The use of coal and oil in the context of industrialization has always been about who has the power to profit from the surplus these energy forms produce, but until now, no one has pulled the various historical details together into a historical narrative laying bare the fascinating power dynamics behind the rise of Western political systems and their relationship with energy. Carbon Democracy is an examination of our civilization’s 400 hundred year use of carbon-based energy fueling sources, and the political systems that grew up intertwined with them. Rather than presenting energy and democracy as separate things, like a battery and a device, Mitchell discusses the political architecture of the Western world and the developing world as inherently tied to fueling sources. The thesis is that elites have always sought to maximize not the amount of energy they could extract and use, but the profit stream from those energy sources. They struggled to ensure they would be able to burn carbon and profit, without having to rely on the people who extract and burned it for them. Carbon-based fuels thus cannot be understood except in the context of labor, imperialism and democracy.
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/...=Google+Reader
yep, the oilcos have been setting US foreign policy for decades. Millions dead for the profits of BigOil.
They all live in closed societies where a person that even speaks out against Islam is put to death. All the media is state controlled and that is the way of life for the region. They have no concept of free speech, are widely uneducated and the imam's and clerics dominate the social structures.
If there was one thing that Paul did that was good was kiss some autocrat ass in his letter to the Romans. Christian dogma allows for a separation of church and state. Contrast that with sharia law and their theocracies.
I have though for a long time that the region merits a heavy hand and cultural condescension. It's pretty obvious that trade and their self determination is not a good thing.
The Chinese realized that you cannot just change the political and economic structure to effect lasting change.
The foundations of Western civilization are 2500 years deep.
The Arabs started to progress and at one point were ahead of the West, but then got stuck in the 9th century. Maybe given the rate of change in the world they'll be in the equivalent of the 21st century in half the time it took the West. So that would be around 2600. The successor states to the successor states of the U.S. will be gone by then.
Every once in a while, a Western country snaps and gets the blood of its enemies all over its teeth. Eventually, that will happen, 200 million Muslims will be killed, and the remainder will get the message and pipe down for another century.
Total and utter annihilation is the only solution, outside of creating a common enemy, but even that is temporary (see Mother Russia circa 1940-ish).Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security
Well, I guess if aliens came down from the heavens and decided to enlighten the barbarians known as Humans, that would do it too.
Short of that, death and a lot of it everywhere.
or we could ignore them
The coming geopolitical problem is that now that the combined ineptitude of Bush and Obama has come to fruition, you're going to have various groups competing to be the dominant regional power with the dream of being the center of the new caliphate. They're not going to unite against the West until that happens. It's going to be three-sided: Egypt/Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, and Turkey. Because of what that will do to oil markets, the rest of the world will be pulled in, but that will be about the same time the U.S. financial implosion happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Perfect storm. Kiss everything you've ever known goodbye, probably including your own life. :)
how many Muslims countries have invaded and occupied USA?
how many Muslim countries have been invaded and occupied BY the USA?
"who do they hate us?" :lol
The chinese cultural revolution worked (see China circa 1970ish).Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
Sure, protest against that. But don't protest against a fucking movie, that no one in America is actually watching. That's fucking stupid, and makes you look retarded. No wait, that doesn't make you LOOK retarded, it makes you retarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
"But don't protest against a fucking movie"
agreed, but the America-invading-Muslim-countries for decades is the history and cannot be ignored.
STFU white supremacist :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
If it really went down that way, you are forgetting a couple of other billion people that have ...a bit of a concern to put it nicely, with muslims as well. Devout Christians tend to forget about those billions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security
200 million would be at the low end in that case, IMO.
I don't know tbh. I'm coming around to the idea of leveling the place and starting the middle east from scratch. Most of those motherfuckers are beyond repair. I'm not talking just about extremists. I'm talking about honor killings, abuse of women, etc. The muslim society just isn't going to suddenly catch up with the rest of civilized society because we want them to.
/Vent
Honor killings et al, have less to do with religion and far more to do with culture and region, from what I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
Nothing in the Koran demands death from some slighted honor, again to my fairly limited understanding.
The solution, I think, is to let go of the middle east, but remain vigilant and involved in world affairs. The bad will the US has accrued among Muslims due to the Iraq invasion and perceived meddling is pretty much irreversible.
These people need to be left to their own devices to sort themselves out. For a while, that will not stop the animosity toward the US, and terrorist groups will look to take revenge for the incursions of the last decade, which is why the US will need to remain vigilant on its own shores, and if needed in allied countries. But the continuing military presence in the Middle East is not solving problems, it is creating them. The only place there ought to be military presence now is at US embassies, which is technically US territory anyway.
I have confidence in the possibility that, like most of the rest of the world, the Middle East will self-correct if left to fester on its own for a significant period of time. People of the region will see the squalor and backwardness of their way of life as the rest of the world moves forward, and will strive for something better, which may be found as an example in China or in the west.
rofl op fighting for the petrodollar
Friday prayer was today. As you probably know, one of the pillars of faith of islam is the kowtowing 5 times a day routine. What you may not know is that Friday is a special day in that the midday prayer is congregational and followed by a sermon.
It should be of little surprise that following the little powwow at mosques across ME and north african countries that the protests were once again more confrontational, violent, zealous and directed at us.
You do the math and figure out who fomented today's unrest.
I keep on hearing rhetoric about this being a minority and this is not the real islam but when following sermons in countries as far west as Tunisia and as east as Bangladesh then those populaces across the muslim world start attacking us once again after they killed our people just a few days ago then those words ring hollow to me.
There are no other real civic authorities other than the clerics and imams and its pretty obvious left to their own devices that they are going to encourage their followers to attack our people at any provocation.
This is very much about Islam and no amount of words is going to cover up the actions of that religion's leaders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggity
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Contrast.
Hmmmm...our leaders need to make up their fucking minds. On one hand, they fear monger us with these guys like they are the most savage people on earth who want ALL americans dead and are a huge threat to our existence. If this is really true, then we need to engage in mass genocide against them immediately. Of course yes, this would mean blowing up their precious oil fields.
If they're not such bad guys and all this is a direct result of us constantly meddling, then we need to just get the fuck out of their countries and leave them alone. Pick one...but don't play both sides by telling us we have to go to war for safety while simultaneously giving aid to these countries.
You sound very civilized talking about leveling the place. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc
Let's say a fringe group in the US... Tea Party, Occupy Wall Street, whoever... started protesting violently against a foreign enemy. Some killings occur as a result of these protests, other violence and acts of vandalism are rampant, and images of angry mobs are broadcast around the world.
Some asshole in Sweden suggests that the United States should just be nuked to hell. As a non-participant in these protests/riots, how do you feel about that?
Also, fuck you.
Sounds good, when do we go after the [email protected] fearless leader?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
^ so this how white people act when they really get mad :lol that soft nigga coming outta you dawg...:lol
but Lng I would give them pass...think about it for sec....:lol they have reason to be mad
here's my hook line: "You'd Be Mad Too If":
- You lived in squalor every day in a dusty miserable ass town/country
- It was hot as fuck in your town, water was scarce and you had to wear head scarves and hot dresses all fucking day
- You couldn't go online and simply decide which NBA game you were going to on any given night
- If you had to keep a gallon of water by the bedside to cool you off after fucking
- If your head would get chopped off for getting a little extra pussy on the side
- If the women smelled all gotdam funky because they couldn't bath regularly
these are just some reasons..but they literally have nothing worth-while to do..they're fucking bored outta their minds...and when you have large groups of fucking bored ass and stanky people shit is gonna down..why? because bored ass and stanky ass people loves a fucking riot..that shit is fun when you ain't got shit else going on...:lol
Sure if you put a movie outside of the context of US relations with the people who live in the middle east then you would have a point but you're seperating the event form the world around it.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
When Darrin posts a youtube do you view it as a youtube or do you view it as another youtube in the line of idiocy that Darrin has been spewing for years?
x40942840928409280428409820498Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggity
I understand rioting because your life sucks. Heck, I'd understand rioting if a politician said something. But it's a movie that no one in the US cares about. And if it was just one country, ok, some weirdos. But there have been protests in six or seven countries, including a few countries that are supposedly friendly to us.
Fucking idiots. To use your analogy Spurm, if a group of wackos here in the US overran the British Embassy because they watched a Mr Bean movie and found it offensive that he destroyed the Mona Lisa, I'd be saying they're a bunch of fucking morons too.
"wackos here in the US overran the British Embassy because they watched a Mr Bean movie"
but if the Brits had been helping drug cartels hosing down USA for decades, and the Brits had invaded and occupied TX and CA for oil, with Brit drones murdering US resistance in the other states, then there would be long-standing US power-der key of hatred of the Brits.
This is a suprisingly good analogy by you B_D and I understand that you are saying that because of this, while their actions are horrible, if you put yourself in their shoes, you couldn't say that you or anyone here would act much differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Which is why:
then:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drachen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggity
Oh and the stupid Coptic Christian who made the stupid video being protested by stupid muslims is probably going to jail. As a part of his probation for ID theft and Bank Fraud he is not allowed to access the internet or have someone access it on his behalf.
Now they are trying to attack the US consulate in Austrailia.
Why does Ln act like 2016 hasn't been a major hit at the box offices?
I absolutely agree that they're morons. What I take offense to is the "Nuke 'em all and let God sort 'em out" crowd.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
if they dont like it gtfo
fkn wankers wanting sharia law introduced to westernize civilization, why not go back where u come from where the country still lives like its in the ice ages...
Understood... but then BITCH ABOUT THAT SHIT! :lol Why is a stupid movie the straw that breaks the camel's back?Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/15/world/...ain/index.html
Ok, so what's the excuse for this? Last time I checked, we haven't taken over Australia... nope, just some more fucking idiots.
These fuckers can get shot for all I care. If anything, this shows the futility of trying to help these backwards ass morons. Pull out and let them fight amongst themselves like the idiots they are. They can kill each other over whether Muhammad liked tea or coffee.Quote:
Carrying signs that read: "Obama, Obama, we like Osama" and "Behead All Those Who Insult the Prophet," hundreds of protesters gathered on the steps of the consulate.
Because you analogy is wrong. It's not about a cultural icon (Whistler's mother in the Bean movie) it's about an absolute rule of their religion.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Let say you made a movie where Jesus was depicted as a surgeon in an abortion clinic, and then use that movie to promote your brand new abortion clinic.
Would you feel completely safe? Do you think there's a good chance of massive demonstration at the clinic? Some of them violent maybe? Would you feel a little responsible for the violence/damage caused by the demonstrations?
It's about understanding the gravity of the insult and what a normal reaction to a perceived insult is in their civilization. I don't condone it, but I don't play dumb like the authors and claim that I didn't know what would happen.
The problem is because the middle east restricted freedom from the beginnings. It prevents opinions and progress to develop. See America was born for freedom, to be free from British rule and established laws to keep freedom reign, such as free speech, religion and whatnot. Imagine if the American government made it illegal to speak against slavery, that it can bring death upon you.I seriously seriously doubt we'd have a black president today.
The answer is simple, the middle eastern countries need to tear down everything and let freedom ring. This will be difficult because they see in America that same sex people are now fighting to get married. I bet that is horrifying to them.
Agreed.... they clearly don't want our help, and half the time, our government's idea of "help" backfires anyway, tbh... this is what happens when you waste billions on an unsustainable interventionist foreign policy with no real goal or exit strategy....Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Truth is, and no one wants to admit it, secular dictators like Hussein and Quadaffi are the best thing we can hope for in the middle east. They both modernized their countries more than anyone else ever has, and their brutal methods were the only way to prevent total anarchy erupting in a region dominated by a religion with millennium-old beliefs. Removing those two was the most idiotic thing America could have possibly done in its "War on Terror". The day when every country in the middle east is controlled by a Hussein or Quadaffi should be a day America longs for. They both did more "nation building" than we ever will in the region.
I'd expect a few weirdos to protest, maybe even cause violence. But I wouldn't expect weirdos in numerous countries to protest in the hundreds... because frankly, that'd be stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepn
While I agree with you, this didn't happen in America until the main religion in America (Christianity) was roughly 1700 years old. They didn't have the advantage of the rapid development of industry, education and consequently democracy that the West had. Actually the western colonist (UK) kept them back for centuries. I'm not making excuses, I'm just trying to say that we need to understand the situation correctly to address it correctly.
If people want to nuke'em, then do it for the right reasons not because of a feeling of self importance.
OK now we're debating numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
We now agree that they protest and do generally stupid stuff because they are offended. So is it possible to imagine an insult that would bring the majority of American into the streets? I think it is doable. Well apparently such an insult is even easier to find for the Muslims.
It's a fact and your or my opinion can not change that fact.
Yes, it's a fact that there are obviously a lot of stupid Muslims. If there were a bunch of people protesting and causing violence because of a movie, they'd be stupid too. And you know? No one is even WATCHING this fucking movie. Passion of the Christ pissed a lot of people off, but no one got killed, and it didn't cause riots in multiple countries. Hell, we've had works of art that show Jesus in a bucket of piss, and no one has died because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
Yes, it's about numbers, and yes, it's about the stupidity of what they're rioting about.
Don't limit yourself to film and/or even religious insults - they are probably not strong enough in the West.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
As long as we understand the reason of their "stupidity" we can handle/address it. A smarter handling is a cheaper and safer solution for us than what some of the people here (and over there) are proposing. If we are so much smarter and more evolved - let's behave as such.
Islam is just surreal. It seems like it's a salvia/acid trip that you don't want to experience but you know deep down that all of us eventually have to submit sooner or later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slomo
We have so much knowledge and technology that we share with them. It's not our fault that they wont use it for something good like better educating their citizens. They use our technologies against us to spread hate and misinformation.
America is free is a load of bullshit. It is basically a police state with all sorts of laws you can spend time in jail and or fined for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Creepn
DumbassQuote:
Originally Posted by rascal
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by spursncowboys
Yeah I wonder why they hate us.
The Mothafuckin troof, but where we disagree is that I say hey knew exactly what they were doing when they removed those two all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE
The United states has the highest incarceration rate in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
US may have the highest incarceration rate, but your average American is much more "free" than many in third world countries, simply due to higher quality of life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spursncowboys
http://i45.tinypic.com/2m6k8j4.png
fify
Fair point, but the other day I read that only 7% of those in prison are in prison for violent crimes. That's fuckin ridiculous. This country's bullshit "War on Drugs" is really nothing more than a huge revenue source for Big Pharma and the growing Privatized Prison industry.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
yup, the other 93% are pot users or were selling drugs to make a living before they were institutionalized and sent to prison school to come out as better criminals than when they went in :lol
:cry Legalize it. :cryQuote:
Originally Posted by mavs>spurs
what is that supposed to mean? you seem to be painting me as one of those potheads who wants it legalized...i've never even tried it in my life, I just know that the current policy is about as retarded as prohibition was.
What a valuable contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agloco
Standard of living (quality of life)Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
The US ranks around 9th
1. Norway
2. Australia
3. Sweden
4. Netherlands
5. Germany
6. Switzerland
7. Ireland
8. Canada
9. United states
Freedom doesn't have anything to do with standard of living (quality of life) of third world countries. Nice job moving the goal posts.
Yes because the irish are known for ruling with an iron fistQuote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Quote:
Police hunting down 'extremist criminals' after protest
Police have vowed to crack down on "extremist criminals" in the wake of yesterday's violent protest in Sydney's CBD in which six officers were injured.
Six people have been charged after hundreds of Muslims descended on central Sydney to voice their anger over an anti-Islamic film published on the internet.
The protest in Sydney followed similar action in the Middle East and North Africa which has left at least nine people dead in the past few days.
New South Wales Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione says he was shocked by yesterday's violent scenes where offices were reportedly pelted with glass bottles and police cars damaged.
"Some of the behaviour, it has absolutely floored me. To see a young child with a placard thrust in his hand, calling for the beheading of a person is simply something I cannot comprehend," he said.
"It's not what we teach our children. I was particularly affronted by that scene."
Police today set up strike force McAlister to deal with the violent protesters and Commissioner Scipione says police will do everything they can to keep the city safe.
"You can be assured, we are waiting. We will deal with you. This is a no-nonsense engagement. If you want to act like you are extremist criminals, we will treat you like you are extremist criminals," he said.
"This is not Libya. This is not the country where you come to do what we saw yesterday."
-- more -->
You don't think increased wealth provides additional freedom? If you have more money, you have more freedom to choose.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
I think a lot of the shit Americans are jailed for is bullshit too. But jail is better than having your hand cut off, or just being killed out right.
i'd love to move to northern europe like norway and sweden if they weren't all fucking giant..it'd be weird being a dpg over there
It's amazing how a few days' worth of media reports on the actions a few thousand radicals can make genocide seem like a reasonable idea to people.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Is this what "moderate" Islam looks like?
Quote:
Malaysia holds seminars to help teachers spot 'gay children'
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/...que-in-008.jpg
Malaysia's government said in March that it is working to curb the 'problem' of homosexuality, especially among Muslims.
Light-coloured clothes and large handbags for boys listed as signs, as government forges ahead with anti-gay agenda
The Malaysian government has begun holding seminars aiming to help teachers and parents spot signs of homosexuality in children, underscoring a rise in religious conservatism in the country.
So far, the Teachers Foundation of Malaysia has organised 10 seminars across the country. Attendance at the last event on Wednesday reached 1,500 people, a spokesman for the organisation said.
The federal government said in March that it is working to curb the "problem" of homosexuality, especially among Muslims who make up over 60% of Malaysia's population of 29 million people.
Malaysia frowns on oral and gay sex, describing them as against the order of nature. Under civil law, 'offenders', both male and female, can be jailed for up to 20 years, caned or fined.
-- more -->
Yeah, but if the Fed continues to ruin our dollar and get us downgraded, that quality of life might not be so high for much longer, tbh.....Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
No, moderate Muslims probably don't agree with the actions of the Malasyan government here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
That was a really easy question! Let's have another!
And he has still has the nerve to call me out on my lack of education.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward
A Slomo sighting?
this is win TOTW easy!
This x1000. They may have mistreated their citizens but that's gonna happen no matter who's in power over there. At least they kept the extremist fuckheads at bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE
You do realize that 50 years ago in the us we were singling out left handers and forcing them to become right handers because"it was evil".Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
The difference being that they JUST threw out their brutal dictators.
Meanwhile, we don't have to be there for their evolution.
We won't let go of the ME as long as Israel continues to be occupied by the Jews. The bulk of the wealth in the US and possibly the world is owned and/or managed by Jews, and wealth controls policy and always has.
Why have a world war when you can make as much money off scattered skirmishes? Defense contractors are making billions off these things. If we Ron Pauled it out of there on every foreign soil, the defense industry would collapse. Big money begets big money.
The dog and pony show that is the media release snippets is doing its job by garnering support for troops abroad and more and better surveillance and fewer domestic freedoms in the name of safety.
I agree with a lot in your post. The problem with Quadaffi type dictators is that the people sought refuge in religion as a protest/opposition to the dictator. Ideally they will one day realize that they exchanged one dictator for another and try another (secular) option.Quote:
Originally Posted by DUNCANownsKOBE
Not holding my breath though, because the time required for these sorts of changes is usually measured in generations rather than years.
People need a history lesson with Iran and US relations on why the US shouldn't be supporting dictators. Its extremely short sighted and much of the reason why we're in this predicament to begin with.
The fact is that you can't control the god damn people of the world and you can't manipulate every situation in the world to YOUR benefit. When you try you just cause eventual blowback.