Gecko: $250K is "middle income" LOL

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Figure it out yet?

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nope because I hope to move beyond middle class. I am currently in middle class, but it is not where I plan on staying.

Middle class is absolutely where someone is at, doesn't make it a final destination (but it can be).

Ergo your statement said nothing (or at least made no point).

Lastly, here is a pretty good study on "middle class" by pew research. It gives an objective (if not arbitrary) definition, and then gives a subjective definition (based on those surveyed).

Also, I don't care what obama or romney say. They aren't my font of knowledge. The factual rebuff that I was talking about was your "40k median income in 1980", so then you started making stuff up about me financing all of my vehicles, etc.

Sorry bud you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by Drachen

nope because I hope to move beyond middle class. I am currently in middle class, but it is not where I plan on staying.

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Hope is nice, I hope you get there. More importantly how much savings do you think you need to maintain a middle class lifestyle thru retirement instead of going backwards into poverty without working until you're old and feeble. And is your current income getting you there?

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Originally Posted by Drachen

Middle class is absolutely where someone is at, doesn't make it a final destination (but it can be).

Ergo your statement said nothing (or at least made no point).

Lastly, here is a pretty good study on "middle class" by pew research. It gives an objective (if not arbitrary) definition, and then gives a subjective definition (based on those surveyed).

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I don't have time to read your article now but at quick glance it talks about the dissappearing middle class, I agree. It doesn't matter to me how anyone else defines middle class though. I believe an income that provides enough for someone to live a middle class lifestyle but then drift back into poverty after retirement isn't a middle class income.

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Originally Posted by Drachen

Also, I don't care what obama or romney say. They aren't my font of knowledge. The factual rebuff that I was talking about was your "40k median income in 1980", so then you started making stuff up about me financing all of my vehicles, etc.

Sorry bud you are wrong.

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I looked at a chart with adjusted incomes without realizing it. God will forgive me even if you won't.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Hope is nice, I hope you get there. More importantly how much savings do you think you need to maintain a middle class lifestyle thru retirement instead of going backwards into poverty without working until you're old and feeble. And is your current income getting you there?

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The answer to your final question is no it won't, and I "hope" because it is a little out of my hands at the moment. 10 years ago I was busted for a possession charge for which I received deferred adjudication. It has blocked me from any advancement. I own that I f-ed up, unfortunately, it seems that there is no way for me to get out from under it (I thought maybe time would do it, but it was 10 years ago next month. I thought education might make it less of a concern, but I am now 2 months away from having two degrees later. Because it was deferred adjudication it cannot be expunged...). It is this uncertainty that leads me to only hope, rather than know.

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I don't have time to read your article now but at quick glance it talks about the dissappearing middle class, I agree. It doesn't matter to me how anyone else defines middle class though. I believe an income that provides enough for someone to live a middle class lifestyle but then drift back into poverty after retirement isn't a middle class income.

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So because someone's income class can vary, they can never be in any income class?

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I looked at a chart with adjusted incomes without realizing it. God will forgive me even if you won't.

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I forgive you, that is no problem. I was only explaining the context of the quote that you responded to because it seems like you took it another way. Lastly, I am in no way upset as you suggested. I am a little taken aback by your lack of awareness, but if you have no experience with something, then it is forgiveable. I am comfortable, not satisfied, with where I am at.

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Originally Posted by Drachen

10 years ago I was busted for a possession charge for which I received deferred adjudication.

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Was it a felony?

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

Was it a felony?

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yep

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Originally Posted by Drachen

yep

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Ah. That sucks. I just went through a job search and had a class a misdemeanor charge, for which they only look back seven years.

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

Ah. That sucks. I just went through a job search and had a class a misdemeanor charge, for which they only look back seven years.

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I am in the middle of a last ditch effort to suppress the records at the moment, but it is possible (because I wasn't convicted) that there is no legal way to suppress it (kinda bass ackwards huh?) and I am just stuck. I will find out soon.

I will do, this, then graduate in Dec and if I am still in the same place after a few months into next year, then I will start to consider the option of moving my family to a state which doesn't allow employers to ask that question for more than 7 years back.

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Originally Posted by Drachen

So because someone's income class can vary, they can never be in any income class?

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Uh..that is a bizarre interpretation of what I said but whatever. We aren't ever going to agree.

Good luck on the adjudication battle, that's bullshit and I hpe you get it worked out and it doesn't affect your future employment. I also hope you eventually make the $88k that will "most certainly" make you rich, although I promise you that if/when that happens you will change your definition of what rich is.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Uh..that is a bizarre interpretation of what I said but whatever. We aren't ever going to agree.

Good luck on the adjudication battle, that's bullshit and I hpe you get it worked out and it doesn't affect your future employment. I also hope you eventually make the $88k that will "most certainly" make you rich, although I promise you that if/when that happens you will change your definition of what rich is.

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Let's just hope that it isn't 20 years from now when 88k really isn't a lot of money and I will certainly have to change my definition. :lol

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Both Obama and Romney agree that the upper end of middle class is $250k and is not rich, I haven't been "factually" put down on that. My view is middle class starts around $100k and you are working class. It's subjective but your description of your own financial situation furthers my position imo.

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My personal viewpoint is that middle class starts lower than your number. Maybe about $40k. The upper end is in my opinion somewhere between $200k and $300k.

So middle class is meaningless since it has so many meanings, all subjective.

the only objective measure is population per segment of income. dividing into 5ths, quintiles, seems pretty good, and show just how many households are below $50K/year in a supposedly wealthy country.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

So middle class is meaningless since it has so many meanings, all subjective.

the only objective measure is population per segment of income. dividing into 5ths, quintiles, seems pretty good, and show just how many households are below $50K/year in a supposedly wealthy country.

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Well, just another of the seemingly hundreds of things we disagree with. I will suggest that you consider that working class is similar to social class. It has more to do with the type of work one does. Income is a product of work type, and isn't on a consistent scale.

The pew research article that I linked went from 2/3 median to twice median for their objective (yet I would argue arbitrary) measurement. Then for their survey part, they found 40-120k. I personally would probably add 10-15 to the bottom and about 30 to the top of that.

Once again, this is subjective.

"40-120k"

There's simply no comparison between household on $40K and one on $120K, iow, stupid and meaningless.

Slightly off topic:

Fully 68%, or more than two thirds of Americans live 'paycheck to paycheck,' according to the annual 'Getting Paid in America' survey by the San Antonio based American Payroll Association, being released today,



Association spokesman Mark Coindreau says researchers asked respondents 'how difficult it would be to meet their current financial obligations if their paychecks were delayed for a week.'



68% of the 30,600 people surveyed say it would be 'somewhat or very difficult,' Coindreau says.



"That is quite a startling number," he said.



But he says it is actually lower than figures for 2010, at the height of the recession.



"In 2010 we saw that 72% were living paycheck to paycheck, and last year, 2011, we actually saw 70%," he said.



He said while the study shows that the situation is getting better, but he says the results are 'not surprising.'



"I think it's pretty safe to say that Americans are still struggling during the current economy," he said. "68% is a very disturbing figure, and it speaks to the current state of the economy."







Read more: http://radio.woai.com/pages/localnew...#ixzz26vDNavE7

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"40-120k"

There's simply no comparison between household on $40K and one on $120K, iow, stupid and meaningless.

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The article breaks it down further (urban/rural, etc).

I think for the living paycheck to paycheck you do have to look at lifestyle. I know people who make $250,000 a year who live paycheck to paycheck.

Class distinction to me has alot to do with where you live and how many kids you have. Someone here said they live high on the hog on their salary, but they have no children. For the many opportunities you may want to give your kids, the costs are significant. 14 years of Catholic school and piano lessons means I drive a very old car, rarely go out to eat, and only go on one small vacation for a couple of days per year. By the time they hit high school, these 2 things alone run $10,000 per year per child. It means my kid has no car but to me the education was more important. I could surely live a "higher" standard of living if I spent that money on an iPhone, a new car ... but I am fine without them.

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Originally Posted by ploto

I think for the living paycheck to paycheck you do have to look at lifestyle. I know people who make $250,000 a year who live paycheck to paycheck.

Class distinction to me has alot to do with where you live and how many kids you have. Someone here said they live high on the hog on their salary, but they have no children. For the many opportunities you may want to give your kids, the costs are significant. 14 years of Catholic school and piano lessons means I drive a very old car, rarely go out to eat, and only go on one small vacation for a couple of days per year. By the time they hit high school, these 2 things alone run $10,000 per year per child. It means my kid has no car but to me the education was more important. I could surely live a "higher" standard of living if I spent that money on an iPhone, a new car ... but I am fine without them.

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Dang you, why did you have to put a number on it. I was thinking about getting my daughter into piano classes (and she is currently in catholic school). You are makin me depressed. :lol

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Originally Posted by Drachen

The article breaks it down further (urban/rural, etc).

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the COL difference rural/urban ISN'T 3x.

Many families up here in the Hill Country on $40K are living in manufactured/mobile homes or quasi-shacks.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

the COL difference rural/urban ISN'T 3x.

Many families up here in the Hill Country on $40K are living in manufactured/mobile homes or quasi-shacks.

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Is yours a single or a double?

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

the COL difference rural/urban ISN'T 3x.

Many families up here in the Hill Country on $40K are living in manufactured/mobile homes or quasi-shacks.

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I wonder if this is also true in arkansas or missery.

Edit: I am not arguing with you, I already said that I personally would put it a little higher, but I am trying to give you an explanation as to why they may have different numbers.

SnakeBoy you win. I may indeed be poor. After a contraceptive slip up (breakage) 6 weeks ago and 6 negative tests, we have 2 positive tests... Going to see the doctor to confirm on thursday.

So. Since I am poor and white, does that mean I should vote republican now? My wife is poor and Mexican, I guess we are a split household. :lol