Why Americans don't understand the Middle East

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

So on one hand, you argue that we need to continue to "keep an eye on" the entire Middle East like we've been doing for decades, but then you argue that "they're threatening us everyday".... in that case, what good has spending decades "keeping an eye on them" done when they're still threatening us?

The solution is clear.... get the hell out, leave sovereign nations alone (and that means no more foreign aid as well), and start rebuilding our shattered reputation through diplomacy, honest friendship, and setting a good example, tbh.....

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+1, except for the part about foreign aid.

We nee more foreign aid, not less. I would quintuple the USAID budget.

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Originally Posted by Shadowflames

You answered your own question. lol

If we are keeping an eye on them now and they are still dropping planes on us that's a problem. If we leave and let them go uncheck what would happen then?

And just to point out what would of happened if the US didn't intervene in the Kuwait invasion by Sadam forces and company?

What do you think would have happend if Saddam would have taken Kuwait?

You can say all you want about the US intervening with other countries affairs but in this instance it was well justified, dont you think?

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No sovereign nation "dropped planes on us".

It was a bunch of religious nutters.

1991 attack on Iraq was a whole different ball game than 2003. THe camps that produced the hijackers were not in Iraq.

you'll are naive if you think that by just pulling out of the middle east they'll leave us alone. If those hijackers and that colorado gunmen proved to us how vulnerable our society is to attacks; they will keep on coming back. It's like the wolf who caught a sheep but the rancher didn't do anything about it cause the wolf is protected. He will keep on coming back for more and more until their ain't anymore sheep left. I could envision a terrorist attack on the river walk or any other people attraction anywhere in the US. I wish I could just smoke my weed, drink my beer, and watch my spurs games in peace, but we can't. I don't want our country to get to the point where we are going to have put the liberals, women and children, and gays to bed while we fight these guys to the death. If they would accept Jesus in their hearts, then maybe their countries wouldn't be the way they are. Anything other than Jesus leads to destruction. I'm not even religious but I see how the reality of live(evolution, string theory,etc) has favored the west. And you can't deny that!

the problem isnt the west, its them

when u listen to a religious wanker instead of ur parents on how to live ur life, cant figure out the difference between right or wrong, u deserved to be brainwashed to be use as a stupid tool for propaganda agenda...

i wish hussien and ghadaffi was still alive, instead of thankin the ppl that help u liberate the country, they dont remember the hand that help them but continue to act as if they are the one weeving the hand is when u have problems.....

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

you'll are naive if you think that by just pulling out of the middle east they'll leave us alone. If those hijackers and that colorado gunmen proved to us how vulnerable our society is to attacks; they will keep on coming back. It's like the wolf who caught a sheep but the rancher didn't do anything about it cause the wolf is protected. He will keep on coming back for more and more until their ain't anymore sheep left. I could envision a terrorist attack on the river walk or any other people attraction anywhere in the US. I wish I could just smoke my weed, drink my beer, and watch my spurs games in peace, but we can't. I don't want our country to get to the point where we are going to have put the liberals, women and children, and gays to bed while we fight these guys to the death. If they would accept Jesus in their hearts, then maybe their countries wouldn't be the way they are. Anything other than Jesus leads to destruction. I'm not even religious but I see how the reality of live(evolution, string theory,etc) has favored the west. And you can't deny that!

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Yeah you just can't live in peace with all those terrorist attacks you've had to endure. Must be a rough life for you.

How many of you been out of the US???
You do realize you can't practice Christianity or Atheism in peace once you step out of the U.S. I'm Atheist btw but I do go to catholic church like 3 or 4 times a year for wedding, baptisms and quincianeras. I go because it's part of my culture and too see my friends and family. The modern catholic church talks about human rights, greek philosophy, politics, world issues, physics, science, humanistic ideals, etc. I don't know what protestant churches talk about but they have been more racists than catholics. My gay cousin and his boyfriend go to San Fernando cathedral to mass and nobody discriminates against them, even though they look gay. I see a bunch of muslim tourist going into the Alamo and go visit the cathedral, and nobody kicks them out. could we they the same in Islamic countries?? Will they let us visit that black rock they worship in Saudi Arabia?? We have opened our hearts to them. They have seen us naked and know all our intimate secrets. Yet they still bite the hand that feeds them.

"We have opened our hearts to them. They have seen us naked and know all our intimate secrets. Yet they still bite the hand that feeds them."

:lol

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Yeah you just can't live in peace with all those terrorist attacks you've had to endure. Must be a rough life for you.

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you have no idea manny. My family has had to endure a lot!!! Civil war, cartel violence(that's why a lot of family has had to move back to Texas from Tamualipas, Nuevo Leon, Coahuilla this is recently) We come from a Jewish catholic background from Spain. So don't tell me I don't know discrimination, poverty or violence cause I know a lot about it.

Therefore my family has had to fight for the freedoms that I have today. My ancestors have given their lives to make what the US is today. We have fought Moors, Native-Americans, Spanish, Mexicans, Anglos, French, Creoles, Nazis, Japanese and Koreans just so that we could stay alive and practice our freedoms and existence in peace. Every person on earth deserves freedom. What would you do without freedom?? Those people in the middle east are lost. Those young men are angry at the world because they have no hope for the future. I wish that their countries weren't like that. But they need to do their part in fighting for those freedoms that they envy. A lot people in the US would like to help in giving them those freedoms, but we painted as the bad guys in their corrupt state medias.

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

How many of you been out of the US???
You do realize you can't practice Christianity or Atheism in peace once you step out of the U.S. I'm Atheist btw but I do go to catholic church like 3 or 4 times a year for wedding, baptisms and quincianeras. I go because it's part of my culture and too see my friends and family. The modern catholic church talks about human rights, greek philosophy, politics, world issues, physics, science, humanistic ideals, etc. I don't know what protestant churches talk about but they have been more racists than catholics. My gay cousin and his boyfriend go to San Fernando cathedral to mass and nobody discriminates against them, even though they look gay. I see a bunch of muslim tourist going into the Alamo and go visit the cathedral, and nobody kicks them out. could we they the same in Islamic countries?? Will they let us visit that black rock they worship in Saudi Arabia?? We have opened our hearts to them. They have seen us naked and know all our intimate secrets. Yet they still bite the hand that feeds them.

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You too dumb for words.

If atheism was the only criteria you would find many countries that are more tolerant of it than the US (where, let's face it, the word atheist is openly used as an insult quite often).

Accidentally, not only do I lives outside the US, but I've been to the ME a lot (Arab countries and Israel) and never needed to hide the fact that I don't trust or like (and even less belong) to any organized religion. Funny enough I've had debates about atheism with Arab Muslims and Israeli Jews. They disagreed with me as much as I disagreed with them, but no insults were exchanged (unlike in this forum), voices were not raised and we still parted on friendly terms - actually those were some of the best religious debates I've ever been part of.

OTOH travel guides like Lonely Planet warn foreign travelers to avoid talking about politics and religion while in the US since you could get into trouble...

And just so you know being an atheist is much worse than being a Christian in the eyes of the Muslims - yet here I am, still typing away at my keyboard (with all my ten fingers I might add).

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

"We have opened our hearts to them. They have seen us naked and know all our intimate secrets. Yet they still bite the hand that feeds them."

:lol

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How much aid, technology, and food have we given them?? They use it against us.

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

you have no idea manny. My family has had to endure a lot!!! Civil war, cartel violence(that's why a lot of family has had to move back to Texas from Tamualipas, Nuevo Leon, Coahuilla this is recently) We come from a Jewish catholic background from Spain. So don't tell me I don't know discrimination, poverty or violence cause I know a lot about it.

Therefore my family has had to fight for the freedoms that I have today. My ancestors have given their lives to make what the US is today. We have fought Moors, Native-Americans, Spanish, Mexicans, Anglos, French, Creoles, Nazis, Japanese and Koreans just so that we could stay alive and practice our freedoms and existence in peace. Every person on earth deserves freedom. What would you do without freedom?? Those people in the middle east are lost. Those young men are angry at the world because they have no hope for the future. I wish that their countries weren't like that. But they need to do their part in fighting for those freedoms that they envy. A lot people in the US would like to help in giving them those freedoms, but we painted as the bad guys in their corrupt state medias.

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

How much aid, technology, and food have we given them?? They use it against us.

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You do realize we are selling them technology (not giving it away)? At premium prices I might add. If they can't afford it they don't get it.

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Originally Posted by Slomo

You too dumb for words.

If atheism was the only criteria you would find many countries that are more tolerant of it than the US (where, let's face it, the word atheist is openly used as an insult quite often).

Accidentally, not only do I lives outside the US, but I've been to the ME a lot (Arab countries and Israel) and never needed to hide the fact that I don't trust or like (and even less belong) to any organized religion. Funny enough I've had debates about atheism with Arab Muslims and Israeli Jews. They disagreed with me as much as I disagreed with them, but no insults were exchanged (unlike in this forum), voices were not raised and we still parted on friendly terms - actually those were some of the best religious debates I've ever been part of.

OTOH travel guides like Lonely Planet warn foreign travelers to avoid talking about politics and religion while in the US since you could get into trouble...

And just so you know being an atheist is much worse than being a Christian in the eyes of the Muslims - yet here I am, still typing away at my keyboard (with all my ten fingers I might add).

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so your saying i could go to mass in Saudi Arabia(or any other ME country) without any fear, then try to hit on Islamic women at their local hooters and nothing will happen to me just for being a normal human being going about his life in peace?

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Originally Posted by Slomo

You do realize we are selling them technology (not giving it away)? At premium prices I might add. If they can't afford it they don't get it.

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and why can't they afford it?? cause they have no jobs. And when you have no jobs, it drives men crazy. People need some meaning in their lives in order to function properly. That's why some people need religion in order to find that meaning and mission in their lives. The problem is their government blames all of their problems on the US instead of blaming themselves for the way they are.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

+1, except for the part about foreign aid.

We nee more foreign aid, not less. I would quintuple the USAID budget.

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Foreign aid is nice in theory, but never works....

Firstly, the money never goes to the people who actually need it, it ends up funding corrupt, oppressive governments and the mega rich instead.... to quote Ron Paul: "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country and giving it to the rich people of a poor country"... indeed, a lot of our foreign aid money helps fund rigged elections in other countries through the National Endowment for "Democracy"...

Secondly, forced charity is really just theft, tbh.... I have a problem with the idea that people who work and already have to give too much of their income to our corrupt, bloated federal government should then have some of their tax dollars sent to "the rich people of a poor country"...

Thirdly, private charities can do a much better job than our federal government - they can actually reach the people in need of our help on a personal level, and be able to focus on a specific plan of action, without having to worry about a million other things like our government, tbh....

Holy mother of n!ggerdick, Ginobilly is one stupid motherfucker.

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

you have no idea manny. My family has had to endure a lot!!! Civil war, cartel violence(that's why a lot of family has had to move back to Texas from Tamualipas, Nuevo Leon, Coahuilla this is recently) We come from a Jewish catholic background from Spain. So don't tell me I don't know discrimination, poverty or violence cause I know a lot about it.

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Rofl, so what have you personally endured exactly?

sup Ed?

Not much Axe

How's the fam?

:lmao

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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation

Foreign aid is nice in theory, but never works....

Firstly, the money never goes to the people who actually need it, it ends up funding corrupt, oppressive governments and the mega rich instead.... to quote Ron Paul: "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country and giving it to the rich people of a poor country"... indeed, a lot of our foreign aid money helps fund rigged elections in other countries through the National Endowment for "Democracy"...

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Partially correct.

I've been involved in the rebuild in Bosnia and in Kosovo. A lot of aid money disappeared in Bosnia and achieved nothing. By the time Kosovo came around a lot of governmental aid agencies smartened up. The offered money but in the form of projects. They would commit a certain amount of money and ask the locals what they wanted for it and made them submit projects. The ones that were deemed helpful to the rebuild (not just individuals) were approved and a partner company was identified through a public tender, but always from outside the country. Then the bridge, road, sewage... was built.

That's a pretty good formula, but I will admit that you don't often see it.

Salman Rushdie: Satanic Verses 'would not be published today'

The 65-year-old writer lived in hiding for many years after Iran's Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa calling for his execution.

Sir Salman said writers were still being attacked for their works in the same way, in Muslim countries including Turkey, Egypt, Algeria and Iran.

Sir Salman said writers and publishers needed to 'be braver'
"If you look at the way in which free expression is being attacked by religious extremism, the things of which these people are accused is always the same - it's blasphemy, heresy, insult, offence - it's this medieval vocabulary."

He pointed out that, as recently as last week, Channel 4 had cancelled a screening of its documentary, Islam: The Untold Story, following security threats.

"The fact a documentary about Islam can be pulled because someone is worried about the consequences is an indication of that," he said.

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Originally Posted by Edward

Rofl, so what have you personally endured exactly?

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I have had family members killed just because they got in the way of cartel violence. My family in Mexico are not high class people but middle class hard working people who are nurses, teachers and masons who shouldn't be going through this kind of life. They don't influence the potential threat of violence they face every day. All the violence is due to Mexico and US drug policy laws that their elites class make to keep the violence and money going round and round. Look what prohibition did to the US in the 20's and 30's.

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Originally Posted by rascal

Americans don't understand much outside of the USA.

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They just need to visit the local convenience store.


http://www.painetworks.com/photos/eo/eo0937.JPG

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Originally Posted by Ginobilly

I have had family members killed just because they got in the way of cartel violence. My family in Mexico are not high class people but middle class hard working people who are nurses, teachers and masons who shouldn't be going through this kind of life. They don't influence the potential threat of violence they face every day. All the violence is due to Mexico and US drug policy laws that their elites class make to keep the violence and money going round and round. Look what prohibition did to the US in the 20's and 30's.

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yep, the War on Drugs, like all Wars, is BIG BUSINESS, including for "legit" banksters laundering the $10Bs for the cartels.