I notice blue team is conveniently ignoring the univision F&F expose...

Paul Ryan Calls For Holder To Resign Over Fast And Furious Despite Report Exonerating The Attorney General

GOP vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan may be so busy campaigning that he hasn’t had time to read the news in the last few weeks. At least, that is the most charitable explanation of how Ryan could have called for Attorney General Eric Holder to resign or be fired because he supposedly “misled Congress and entirely botched the investigation of the Fast and Furious program.”

In reality, of course, the Department of Justice’s Inspector General conducted a thorough investigation of the botched “gun running” operations that began under President George W. Bush and included the Fast and Furious sting, and his 471-page report cleared Holder of any wrongdoing.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...orney-general/

Ryan's firing blanks, CC hit right between the eyes :lol

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It doesn't mean that such an attempt would be a success since every attempt to tie this to Obama has failed.

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Buck's gotta stop somewhere, no?

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Paul Ryan Calls For Holder To Resign Over Fast And Furious Despite Report Exonerating The Attorney General

GOP vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan may be so busy campaigning that he hasn’t had time to read the news in the last few weeks. At least, that is the most charitable explanation of how Ryan could have called for Attorney General Eric Holder to resign or be fired because he supposedly “misled Congress and entirely botched the investigation of the Fast and Furious program.”

In reality, of course, the Department of Justice’s Inspector General conducted a thorough investigation of the botched “gun running” operations that began under President George W. Bush and included the Fast and Furious sting, and his 471-page report cleared Holder of any wrongdoing.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...orney-general/

Ryan's firing blanks, CC hit right between the eyes :lol

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:lmao

gullible fucktard

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Paul Ryan Calls For Holder To Resign Over Fast And Furious Despite Report Exonerating The Attorney General

GOP vice-presidential candidate Paul Ryan may be so busy campaigning that he hasn’t had time to read the news in the last few weeks. At least, that is the most charitable explanation of how Ryan could have called for Attorney General Eric Holder to resign or be fired because he supposedly “misled Congress and entirely botched the investigation of the Fast and Furious program.”

In reality, of course, the Department of Justice’s Inspector General conducted a thorough investigation of the botched “gun running” operations that began under President George W. Bush and included the Fast and Furious sting, and his 471-page report cleared Holder of any wrongdoing.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...orney-general/

Ryan's firing blanks, CC hit right between the eyes :lol

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IIRC the report actually said while he didn't know about ff, he should have. Not exactly a ringin endorsement of his performance.

You guys were as skeptical when dubya said America doesn't torture, and that Iraq had WMD.

I don't see where a bunch of fucktards continuing DUBYA's gun running plan 2000 miles from DC are something the US AG should know about, esp when the fucktards probably knew they were violating policies, etc.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

You guys were as skeptical when dubya said America doesn't torture, and that Iraq had WMD.

I don't see where a bunch of fucktards continuing DUBYA's gun running plan 2000 miles from DC are something the US AG should know about, esp when the fucktards probably knew they were violating policies, etc.

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Will you quit it with this "dubya started it" bullshit. It's a fucking lie and you know it. Wide Receiver was a JOINT EFFORT with the Mexican police and the Mexican police followed the guns in Mexico and arrested the bad guys.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

You guys were as skeptical when dubya said America doesn't torture, and that Iraq had WMD.

I don't see where a bunch of fucktards continuing DUBYA's gun running plan 2000 miles from DC are something the US AG should know about, esp when the fucktards probably knew they were violating policies, etc.

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thats fine. The report disagreed and didn't exactly exonerate mr holder as the huffpo piece seemed to suggest.

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Originally Posted by Th'Pusher

thats fine. The report disagreed and didn't exactly exonerate mr holder as the huffpo piece seemed to suggest.

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Good enough for the bot.

Issa has moved his witch hunt on to Hillary anyhow. Hillary says she needs no help from Obama invoking executive privlidge :lol

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Buck's gotta stop somewhere, no?

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Taking responsibility as chief executive and admitting to actively planning this as some kind of gun control scheme are two completely different things, and that's a distinction a lot of people would miss. The current course of action seems pretty realistic.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Taking responsibility as chief executive and admitting to actively planning this as some kind of gun control scheme are two completely different things, and that's a distinction a lot of people would miss. The current course of action seems pretty realistic.

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?

Please elaborate on what is realistic

right-wing dingbats trying to tatoo Holder and Barry with F&F, but they refuse to give responsibility to dubya, dickhead, etc for 9/11.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

right-wing dingbats trying to tatoo Holder and Barry with F&F, but they refuse to give responsibility to dubya, dickhead, etc for 9/11.

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HOLY SHIT!

ATF FLEW THOSE PLANES INTO THE TOWERS??????

Still using the "But, they did it first!" defense? That was not effective in 3rd grade, much less now. Try again.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

[/U][/B]
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Please elaborate on what is realistic

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What part of "the current course of action" do you not understand?

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Still using the "But, they did it first!" defense? That was not effective in 3rd grade, much less now. Try again.

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That would be true if there was a true independent arbiter. In third grade you tell that to the teacher or whatever authority figure at the moment.

Who is that in this case? A vote for contempt of and by themselves?

Seriously if they get the balls and refer it over to a grand jury then let me know. Until that time we both know it is political posturing and in that regards the GOP has little room to talk.

Indeed. 's why its a ridiculous defense.

GOP is hypocritical about FF because it was the lax gun laws in Arizona that made FF possible in the first place...

10,000's of guns slip to Mexican drug gangs from the U.S every year because of our lax gun laws, many used in crimes committed thoughout Mexico, but the GOP wants nothing to do with that

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

GOP is hypocritical about FF because it was the lax gun laws in Arizona that made FF possible in the first place...

10,000's of guns slip to Mexican drug gangs from the U.S every year because of our lax gun laws, many used in crimes committed thoughout Mexico, but the GOP wants nothing to do with that

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What additional laws, if any, should be crafted? Additionally, what laws are "lax"?

This F&F was a total debacle.

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Additionally, what laws are "lax"?

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The second amendment. :lol

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

What additional laws, if any, should be crafted? Additionally, what laws are "lax"?

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Any 18-year-old without a criminal record can buy as many firearms in Arizona as he wants and the same afternoon transfer them to whomever. That whomever may very well be the person who put up the money for the purchase. After the transfer, the guns can wind up anywhere, but thousands of guns go to Mexico. Many of those wind up in the hands of gangsters in the drug cartels whose war among themselves and on the Mexican people have taken an estimated 50,000 lives in six years.

Straw-purchase cases are difficult to prosecute anywhere, but Eban writes that it was made more difficult by the reluctance of Arizona-based U.S. prosecutors to take on any case that wasn't ironclad. And their definition of that was extrem

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e:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...he-case-at-all

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After examining one suspect's garbage, agents learned he was on food stamps yet had plunked down more than $300,000 for 476 firearms in six months. [Dave Voth, supervisor of Fast and Furious] asked if the ATF could arrest him for fraudulently accepting public assistance when he was spending such huge sums. Prosecutor [Emory] Hurley said no. In another instance, a young jobless suspect paid more than $10,000 for a .50-caliber tripod-mounted sniper rifle. According to Voth, Hurley told the agents they lacked proof that he hadn't bought the gun for himself. [...]

Even if a suspect bought 10 guns that were recovered days later at a Mexican crime scene, this didn't mean the initial purchase had been illegal. To these prosecutors, the pattern proved little. Instead, agents needed to link specific evidence of intent to commit a crime to each gun they wanted to seize.

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Fast and Furious was an attempt to get the ironclad evidence needed. The idea was to manually dig through the sales reports of holders of Federal Firearms Licenses, select some likely straw purchasers, track the weapons they bought and then bring strong cases against them and their recruiters.

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Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

Indeed, a six-month Fortune investigation reveals that the public case alleging that Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. Fortune reviewed more than 2,000 pages of confidential ATF documents and interviewed 39 people, including seven law-enforcement agents with direct knowledge of the case. [...]

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee.

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Chances of its being prosecuted before it expires at the end of the congressional session are nil. Republicans know that. It's all about making noise against Obama.

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By the end of July 2010, the Fast and Furious investigation was largely complete. The agents had sent prosecutors 20 names for immediate indictment, Jaime Avila's among them. His purchase of the three WASR-10s were listed among his criminal acts. On Aug. 17, 2010, ATF agents met in Phoenix with prosecutors, including U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke. According to two people present, the ATF presented detailed evidence, including the fact that their suspects had purchased almost 2,000 guns, and pushed for indictments. A month later, on Sept. 17, an ATF team—this time including ATF director Kenneth Melson—met with prosecutors again and again pushed for action. The sides agreed to aim for indictments by October, according to one person in attendance.

But as weeks and then months passed, prosecutors did not issue indictments. The ATF agents grew increasingly concerned. By December, prosecutors had dropped Avila's name from the indictment list for what they deemed a lack of evidence.

Only when Terry, the U.S. Border Patrol agent, was murdered in December 2010 did the prosecutors act. Voth's agents arrested Avila within 24 hours of Terry's death. On Jan. 19, 2011, a federal grand jury indicted him and 19 other suspects. (Avila has since pleaded guilty to dealing guns without a license).

Meanwhile, a crucial part of the Fast and Furious scandal—an unusual alliance that would prod politicians and spread word of the failure to stop guns from making their way to Mexican drug cartels—was waiting in the wings. Little more than a week after Terry's murder, a small item about the possible connection between his death and the Fast and Furious case appeared on a website, CleanUpATF.org. The site was the work of a disgruntled ATF agent-turned-whistleblower, Vince Cefalu, who is suing the bureau for alleged mistreatment in an unrelated case. His website has served as a clearinghouse for grievances and a magnet for other ATF whistleblowers.

It had also attracted gun-rights activists loosely organized around a blog called the Sipsey Street Irregulars, run by a former militia member, Mike Vanderboegh, who has advocated armed insurrection against the U.S. government. It was an incendiary combination: the disgruntled ATF agents wanted to punish and reform the bureau; the gun-rights activists wanted to disable it. After the item about Terry appeared, the bloggers funneled the allegations through a "desert telegraph" of sorts to Republican lawmakers, who began asking questions.

A week after the initial Fast and Furious press conference in January 2011, Dodson dropped a small bombshell. He told a supervisor that he had been contacted by congressional staff. Dodson met that day with two ATF supervisors. According to their written contemporaneous accounts, Dodson was vague but claimed that Voth had always "treated him like shit" and that it "felt good" to speak with someone outside ATF.

Dodson appeared on the CBS Evening News a week later. As Voth watched the program from his living room, he says, he wanted to vomit. He saw sentences from his "schism" e-mail reproduced on the TV screen. But CBS didn't quote the portions of Voth's e-mail that described how the group was divided by "petty arguing" and "adolescent behavior." Instead, CBS claimed the schism had been caused by opposition to gun walking (such alleged opposition is not discussed anywhere in the e-mail, which is below). CBS asserted that Dodson and others had protested the tactic "over and over," and then quoted portions of Voth's e-mail in a way that left the impression that gun walking was endorsed at headquarters. CBS contacted the ATF (but not Voth directly). The result was a report that incorrectly painted Voth as zealously promoting gun walking. (A CBS spokeswoman, Sonya McNair, says CBS does not publicly discuss its editorial process but notes, "The White House has already acknowledged the truth of our report.")

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http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.co...furious-truth/

Meanwhile, gunning running in Arizona is so easy that in Phoenix's Maricopa County there are 853 registered gun dealers. This is Sheriff Joe Arpaio's county lol. Fast and furious...