How would you turn the economy around?

Message board posts.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Alternative fuels be it fusion, solar, or wind are going to be the next economic boom. We need to be on the forefront. It's not just an efficiency issue, its going to be a HUGE world market.

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Getting solar effective and cheap is going to be extremely important for combating global warming, since there isn't a lot else we can do to stop it with China and India rapidly industrialising.

i'd put a tax on stuff coming in from china. start putting money into drilling that huge oil deposit up north (largest in the world) and funding natural gas. make the country energy independent and even export it. turn the federal reserve public and audit that sucker...and probably give bernanke the boot. bring home every troop and shut down every foreign base. fix the borders, use our intelligence resources instead on getting questionable characters out of the US and prevent them from coming back in while getting rid of the TSA and other useless government agencies. I'd downsize govt by about 1/3.

http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/20...ve-d56nvl0.gif

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

make the country energy independent and even export it.

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IIRC, the US has been a net refined oil product exporter for the last two years.

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

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got it :tu

I would hire and pay the world's best economists and mathematicians to figure out what method/plan is the one that is going to save the most money and create the most revenue. Whatever it is, that's the way it would be. No ifs, ands, or buts. I would also try to get Congress to support something like having a fair tax and maybe some consumption taxes. I would say that cutting back on building America's empire would be the smartest thing to do. No more nation building and going overseas to force people to have democracy and be "Americans". That money would be better used helping America and Americans. I also think that America needs to try to slowly and gradually reduce the number of people that depend on government handouts like Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. I mean if you need assistance and are unable to help yourself, then great but if you're free loading, that shit would end. Cutting back on nation building, wars, and government handouts would help the economy a lot. If only politicians would support that, then things might start to look better.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Raise the federal tax on gasoline over 5 years to about $7. Use the revenue to accelerate battery research.

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Not that much.

The current $0.184 is way too low. At a minimum, it needs to be adjusted for inflation. Still, I wouldn't want to see a gas tax more than maybe $1/gal, and that may be too high.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

Classify coal waste as toxic and force the coal companies to clean it all up.

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I think there are already adequate regulations in place.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

A heavy tax all coal, NG, oil exports when those products come out of US soil.

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Bad idea. You would not only increase imports, but hurt local jobs.

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

( btw, Russia sells NG to Europe at $10/unit, while it costs $3/unit in USA. Expect USA price to go back to $10/unit when US LNG terminals start exporting US NG to the world market. Why would NG producers sell the US market cheaper than to the export market? )

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I'm OK with fair supply and demand pricing. However, the price of shipping it will still kep it profitable for lower pricing here than the $10/unit.

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

Alternative fuels be it fusion, solar, or wind are going to be the next economic boom. We need to be on the forefront. It's not just an efficiency issue, its going to be a HUGE world market.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Getting solar effective and cheap is going to be extremely important for combating global warming, since there isn't a lot else we can do to stop it with China and India rapidly industrialising.

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I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

IIRC, the US has been a net refined oil product exporter for the last two years.

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True, but we import most the oil we are refining.

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983

I would hire and pay the world's best economists and mathematicians to figure out what method/plan is the one that is going to save the most money and create the most revenue. Whatever it is, that's the way it would be. No ifs, ands, or buts.

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At least you have a plan. Most the people are complaining about something instead of being constructive.

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983

I would also try to get Congress to support something like having a fair tax and maybe some consumption taxes.

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The Fair Tax is a consumption tax. I too, would like to see the Fair Tax, or something similar. Problem is, congress will never let go of that power they hold by the ability to make tax laws loopholes for their own political gains.

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983

I would say that cutting back on building America's empire would be the smartest thing to do. No more nation building and going overseas to force people to have democracy and be "Americans".

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Agreed, but where do you separate nation building and snuffing out a legitimate threat? I say we were right to go into Iraq and stayed the appropriate time. Right to go to Afghanistan, but overstayed our need by several years now. Wrong to help in Libya's civil war. I am just making that distinction, and we should revive an existing thread if you wish to debate that rather than here.

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Originally Posted by Jacob1983

That money would be better used helping America and Americans.

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Helping Americans?

I would say in most cases, the best way to help Americans is with tough love. No government handouts without accountability. Make sure able bodied people are working any job they can find. Only the handicapped and elderly should receive any long term government support.

Make people help themselves.

Tough love.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

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No, fantasy land is thinking heavily taxing consumption will drive consumption by the middle and lower classes to get the economy rolling. Fantasy land is thinking you get an economy going by taking money out of the hands of the people who spend their money and who have to stop and consider the consequences of every purchase more than a couple hundred bucks.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

No, fantasy land is thinking heavily taxing consumption will drive consumption by the middle and lower classes to get the economy rolling. Fantasy land is thinking you get an economy going by taking money out of the hands of the people who spend their money and who have to stop and consider the consequences of every purchase more than a couple hundred bucks.

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You are misunderstanding.

It is taxing people when they spend their money instead of when they make it. In the case of business, we can export products cheaper when we don't tax the productivity. It makes us more globally competitive to tax consumption like most other countries do rather than production.

If you buy a foreign car, there is little tax you are paying for to the nation it is built in. There is little tax when you buy it here. When we build and sell a car overseas, GM, Ford, etc. is taxed, and this cost carries over to a higher priced export. Then the people buying it pay taxes again on it in their country. If we want to compete in the global market, we need to change our tax structure.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

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Even if this is true --and its not like oil speculators haven't grossly overstated potential finds before-- peddling our scarce natural resources for short term profits is exactly the shitty policies that we have been having for the past 30 years. We have no interest long term in growing China's economy and enriching some oil cartels some more short term when we could use those resources to maintain reasonable domestic prices 20 years from now just goes to the same old lack of vision or consideration of the future.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I would love to see more efficient solar, and better yet, working fusion generation. Still, these are just dreams.

What would you do to make our economy better that can be done outside of fantasy land?

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No it's not. Just because you are stupid and cannot conceive of how it would be achieved does not mean that it's fantasy. Agloco just posted information regarding fusion power being energy neutral which is a huge advance. Innovation in diodes utilizing nanotech materials with no bandgap like graphene are revolutionizing solar. The efficiency of solar has been increased markedly over the past decade as has been demonstrated to you repeatedly.

You have two issues. You are still stuck in 1980 as evidenced by your limited knowledge about advances since that time. Second, you have your lips squarely fastened to the oil lobby's ass as evidenced by your posting of propane boiler brochures amongst many other things.

Those are not dreams. Those are goals. You just lack vision. Not surprising given the nature of your learning disability.

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Originally Posted by The Dumb Fuzzy Troll

No it's not. Just because you are stupid and cannot conceive of how it would be achieved does not mean that it's fantasy. Agloco just posted information regarding fusion power being energy neutral which is a huge advance. Innovation in diodes utilizing nanotech materials with no bandgap like graphene are revolutionizing solar. The efficiency of solar has been increased markedly over the past decade as has been demonstrated to you repeatedly.

You have two issues. You are still stuck in 1980 as evidenced by your limited knowledge about advances since that time. Second, you have your lips squarely fastened to the oil lobby's ass as evidenced by your posting of propane boiler brochures amongst many other things.

Those are not dreams. Those are goals. You just lack vision. Not surprising given the nature of your learning disability.

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They are still dreams until the cost comes down.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

They are still dreams until the cost comes down.

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You've been shown the trends. You base things on what you want to believe rather than rational or empirical concepts. This is nothing new and trying to persuade you is pointless.

You go ahead and believe that as gas prices go up, fusion becomes net gain in energy output and solar continues to become more cost efficient that renewables are just a dream. Myself, I earnestly hope we as a country have the foresight to insure we are on the vanguard of those markets as they expand. That's how you get market share.

Nobody takes you seriously so unless someone else comes in making similar claims I don't really care. You are not persuaded by reason so I am not going to waste my time.

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Originally Posted by The Fuzzy Troll

You've been shown the trends.

Blah blah blah blah blah...

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Trends can suddenly stop. I know what the probabilities are and possibilities. I am simply a realist.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

not nearly on the scale i'm talking about. we literally have the largest oil reserve in the world and it's untapped.

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where is that? Bakken? fracking releases it? where is the Bs of tons of water needed? and where the the Bs of tons of highly toxic waste water be disposed?

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

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Originally Posted by 101A

I would eliminate the difference in tax rate for capital gains income - or even tax capital gains at a higher rate than other income. Not doing that simply to get more revenue to the govt., but to eliminate the unnatural incentive that exists for the brightest, greediest and most ambitious to ALL go into the financial industries. In those industries, all of that talent goes into coming up with novel ways to attract more wealth to themselves. Were that area not SO attractive (because income from there is not taxed at a lower rate), eventually some of those people would head back out into other fields, and possibly put that greed, intelligence and desire into pursuits that, as a byproduct of making the individuals rich, also actually increases the size of the economy. Certainly not a quick fix, but something that structurally could have long-range benefits.

Also, for more immediate impact would begin large-scale reconstruction/repair of infrastructure (roads, bridges, dams), including adding/expanding to the interstate highway system. Put a bunch of people to work building shit - train them to do it, if necessary; get them off their asses before we have an impossibly large, permanent, dependent class.

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One of the side effects of St Ronnie lowering CG to 15% was that executive compensation was massively switched from higher tax rate salary to stock. So exec priority, as stock holders, was to plump up the stock price AT ALL COSTS (like firing 100Ks employees, eg, H-P, iow, I, exec, need more stock price so I fire 20K employees for better profits)

SS and Medicare should also be taken from ALL revenue, not just salaries below $105K

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Originally Posted by boutons_deux

One of the side effects of St Ronnie lowering CG to 15% was that executive compensation was massively switched from higher tax rate salary to stock. So exec priority, as stock holders, was to plump up the stock price AT ALL COSTS (like firing 100Ks employees, eg, H-P, iow, I, exec, need more stock price so I fire 20K employees for better profits)

SS and Medicare should also be taken from ALL revenue, not just salaries below $105K

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Troof. And surprising lucid.:toast

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Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue

Troof. And surprising lucid.:toast

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GFY

TB :lol

#1 Be elected president by way of lying to every single donor to my campaign and the citizens at every turn, kissing babies, etc.

#2 Upon inauguration, immediately meet and greet every military commander privately, one on one, and decide who is with and against me.

#3 In my first State of the Union address, request very forcefully that ALL members of both the House and Senate attend

#4 Have real talk with America and its representatives like they have never heard a politician speak before.

#5 Declare the government dissolved, myself dictator and that everyone in this room is no longer allowed to leave until a new government is written and ratified. The military will lock the Capitol building down in every sense of the word.

#6 Bring in panels of experts consisting of 5 members per issue (economy, domestic policy, foreign, healthcare, law, etc) with very broad ideals that must be adhered to in the crafting of new government. Instruct them that the language to be used in the new government will not be in any way ambiguous so as no interpretation as to our original meaning will be needed. To insure this line of reasoning, there will be the Constitution and the Companion. The Constitution never changes, only amended. The Companion is a very brief, strict interpretation of intent of each and every amendment in the Constitution. This document can change, but only in as much as the previous meaning and intent is held in its entirety. Example: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" is the kind of language that muddies the waters. Amendment would state: "All citizens have the right to purchase, keep and use firearms so long as they are not a convicted, violent felon, mentally handicap or otherwise deemed an official danger to society." Companion would state: "Intention: It is necessary that the People be prepared and able to defend themselves and their property from both criminals and over-reaching government." or some such statement. (this portion could go on forever, safe to say the crafting of new government would heavily burden the politician, elected officials and those in control of public welfare and order, their definitions and the consequences of corruption)

#6 After the initial shock and awe is over, inform them that once the new government is ratified, I will immediately resign and submit myself to the new government's custody to be charged/tried and/or executed should the new government determine such a fate.

#7 Die an incredibly happy man.