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Hopefully it's true. Spurs can't expect to beat OKC without Manu, Kawhi and Jack. Need at least one of those three.
Monday is the Battle for 20, as in the first team to reach 20 wins
That will be a welcome sight. :tu
Good!!
Abaka better not run up on him tbh.
Spurs need Jack's nasty for this.
:hungry: Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
I guess that's true, because they sure don't need his offense or defense. I love the guy, but Spurstalk is so enamored with his past championship contributions and the dose of "nasty" that he brings that the fact that he's statistically one of our worst players goes completely overlooked. I think he's the least criticized guy on this board.Quote:
Originally Posted by racm
Which small sample size are you judging him by? Obviously not his playoff stats, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
It sounds odd but I don't think the Spurs know how he fits yet. Last regular season, he was working his way into shape. In the playoffs he did well when it mattered but also had a near invisible stretch. This year, he barely broke a sweat before he was injured.
You serious? My small sample size is his entire career. Check it out, you'll be surprised. His BEST WS/48 since his Spurs championship was..... drumroll.... .082. That's his BEST. He's been horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jacksst02.html
Pretty much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
Then again the expectation for him is simply to be the team's enforcer/Horry stand-in; you can't deny he gets hot at the most opportune moments.
1. :lol @ WS48. That stat was relevant back in about 1993.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
2. His situation in San Antonio is totally different than anywhere else. Everywhere else, he's been forced into being the top option or the second option. As a result, his efficiency suffered. Here, he's shown a completely different game ... as evident by his career-high rebounding rate and his huge drop in shot attempts. Looking how he did on Charlotte or Golden State or Indiana doesn't make sense when figuring how he'll produce in his current role.
3. If you think Jackson has had a horrible career ....... I'm not sure what to tell you.
Atleast he comes to play in a big game unlike that pussy red head bozo you stick up for all the time in here, he has had great playoff series before and game 6 last year in OKC he was one of the few to truly show up and show he had it in him again! He comes up big in big moments, THATS WHY WE LOVE HIM! BONER just sucks in key games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
1. I can't quote every stat, and win shares is my favorite catch-all. Let me know if you think there's a better one.
2. Completely agree with your facts. I could be wrong, but you seem to be implying that his efficiency has improved since he's come back to San Antonio, and if that's what you're implying, I disagree with that. His efficiency here seems in line with his career average.
3. I don't think he's had a "horrible" career, that was too strong of a word. He's obviously been a more than capable player. But I do think he is wildly overrated, especially on this board. Kind of an Allen Iverson lite.
Edit: Uh oh, Cagney picked your side... probably a sign for you to rethink things! :p:
Edit2: Since sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet, that first edit was a joke. Mostly.
LOL okay time to side with me in all reality!Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
Okay, when judging a player like Jackson, you can't go by any stats. He's the type of player who delivers in the guts of the game (Game 5 of WCF against OKC). His "nasty" you refer to is the guts we need on this team. We also need his chemistry on the court (the "I got your back on this"). Teammates are much more confident when he's on the floor because of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
Hence the Horry REFERENCE which I was going to post! Bad % from three all year long or average, but a key moment out there where it counts he would turn into the most scary guy on the floor! You can't just go off +/- all day long or % during the year! Jax game 6 last year, the only one who brought it basically! The time comes real men come to play. I agree with you man, f the stats all year long, if you have it when it counts I want you on this team! Shoot 41% from three all year but less than 30% in the playoffs and dissapear in that big game or so I have no love for you. Jax shows up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Bieber
Guts, attitude, and grit are fantastic for liking the team, entertainment value, and being happy with the product that we spend our time and money on. Unfortunately, they have minimal translation to winning games.
Also, be careful with your verb tenses; Jackson "has shown" up. I'm fine with being thrilled with how he did in Game 6... I'm thrilled too. But to expect that means he'll do the same next playoffs, or anything close to it, is a fallacy.
He has hit quite a few threes in the playoffs here in GS etc. I am sure he does have that knack to go off and no it's not just one game, atleast he shows up in key moments and has proven to a few times in the playoffs here (QUITE a few from 03 and last year). Minimal translation on winning games? You stick up for Bonner, he translates to winning nothing in the playoffs and his % is horrible in almost every series he has played in since 07 here! He has maybe had what the Utah Series where he does well? First round, fish food. Get im deeper in the playoffs in a big game like Horry or Jax and see what he does. I bet you he doesn't do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
You don't need them to win alot of games for you, you just need that game or two during a run to make a big difference, the KEY GAME of a series! Otherwise they are just regular season guys who put up stats and do nothing when you really need them. I would take the guy who helps at the key time.
I sure hope so. There's no way the Spurs can expect to beat OKC by throwing only Green and Anderson on Durant, Durant would go for 35+ points easy.
That would be great. The Spurs desperately need a small forward out there.
I bet Richard Jefferson had better 'career numbers' than Jack... but he's a pussy and that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.
Jack could be 1-15 from the floor in a game and I would not have a single issue with him taking a game-winning shot.
pretty meaningless tweet considering he doesn't have the final say. Atleast he's optimistic.
I think if youre expecting more than outside shooting from him offensively youre doing it wrong. His defense is fine, not elite or anything but its solid...and made that much more valuable by the fact that outside of Kawhi we dont have good perimeter defenders. His nastiness is needed too, esp after putting up with a fag like RJ for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
Correction. If the play like they have for most of the season, they have no shot at beating OKC.Quote:
Originally Posted by crc21209
tbh, I don't expect the Spurs to beat OKC regardless, unless we have one of those super-streaky shooting nights... but it's a December game, so no big deal and if the Spurs surprise me, even better yet...
I agree with all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
I'm probably coming across as anti-Jax, which isn't the case. I'm just a little bothered by the pedestal he's put on around here; it's weird for me to see every other player get ramrodded up the ass by negative comments, when a guy who in my opinion does so little to help our win-loss column takes no heat whatsoever. Maybe I should think of the lack of hate as a positive thing.
OKC has been winning but theyre not that good
soft home schedule has been padding their wins
and theyve come close in a lot of games
As long as SA doesnt let thunders bigs go off then we have a chance
Durant always gets his
Westbrook always get his but really inefficently vs SA
martin is question mark but hes played well vs SA for his career
agree, and I actually defend Bonner on here. I think Bonner is great for regular season games, maybe even limited playoff situations. He's actually playing tougher this season so I hope he can continue in that direction. But you can't compare his grit to someone like Jax. He's a guy you need in the trenches, especially when shit is hitting in the fan. Not sure if there is a Shit Hitting Fan stat, but Jax probably scores really high. some things just don't show up on the stat sheet.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I'm more concerned with Tim and Tony being tired after the schedule we've had, plus no Manu to buy them some time as floor general.Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
Our bench has been feast or famine. It's been getting better, but it's not there yet where you could feel confident you're going to get a relatively solid line every time.
But it's early. I think that's what the Spurs will focus on as the season goes on: consistency.
WS48 is probably the oldest of the "advanced stats" and is antiquated at this point. Even PER is held in higher esteem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
I know you like WS48 since it relies mostly on eFG% and TO% -- Bonner's two best attributes. According to WS48, Bonner is like twice as good as Jackson ever was. Let us not pretend you just happen to pick that stat randomly :)
No, I meant that his role is changing. Thus the level of his efficiency is still unknown since we can't judge him using his other stops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
But even if you want to use his WS48, look at his two best stints by that stat: the 2002-03 season with the Spurs and last year's playoffs. You can't look at his .161 playoff WS48 and tell me that Jackson's efficiency hasn't improved.
He's probably overrated. I'm not going to fight you there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
But that's largely because:
1) When he has been needed the most, he has produced for the Spurs. Fans remember that.
2) He is such a breath of fresh air from the player he replaced that a Spurs fan can't help but love him.
You should be careful there. If you want to run an anti-Jack campaign, you shouldn't mention winning because Jack has won everywhere he's been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
-Golden State's best team of the last couple decades was led by Stephen Jackson. Before he arrived, they sucked. After he left, they sucked.
-Same could be said for Charlotte. They sucked before he got there. When he arrived, he managed to carry that team to the playoffs as the team's best player. When he left, they soon became the WORST TEAM IN NBA HISTORY.
-That Indiana team he was a part of was the best team in the East that year before the Malice and the Palace took place.
Jack is a winner plain and simple. It doesn't show up in efficiency stats because, well, he's not efficient. But what he does, he does well. His specialties during his prime:
1. Perimeter defense (can't be encapsulated by a stat)
2. Being able to play a ton of minutes at a steady level (again, difficult to enumerate)
3. Creating un-assisted scoring chances that don't rely on teammates. Doing so hurts efficiency but every team has to score un-assisted baskets and that was Jack's specialty at other stops.
None of that makes for a shiny WS48 or PER ... but it has allowed Jack to win a lot of games in his career and help carry teams that really had no business of doing much of anything.
I think we discussed this with DrZ in the past, the psychological aspect of the game, and while I can agree with him that's likely not really measurable, I personally think there's tangible impacts to the game that go beyond the numbers. I think it's in large part what makes guys like Jack or Manu be Jack or Manu instead one more of the bunch. They might not be blessed athletically or be natural-born talents, but they're never afraid to fail and they have a competitive drive that sets them apart. IMO, that kind of stuff is contagious and has a larger impact than just on themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by HI-FI
Good thing, at least Jack ]always has that will to play, that edge is missing in Kawhi IMO.
Win Shares doesn't use either of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
How win shares are calculated: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
The summary is that WS is the sum of two components, offensive and defensive. The defensive component kind of sucks, because it doesn't account for differences amongst the five-man units. The offensive component breaks down each actual point produced and allocates the values amongst those who contributed to the point... for example, an assist is worth about half a point (slightly less for a 3).
I'm not sure where you've heard it's antiquated or not held in high esteem. It's the go-to stat on the other basketball boards I visit. You also said it hasn't been relevant since 1993, but the formulas it uses weren't developed until 2004.
Jack is going to get booed like crazy, I love it!
Bring back Jack on Monday, Kawhi on Tuesday, makes the most sense.
Best news ive heard in a while!! Hell YES!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly
LOL these games got a little bit of a rivalry feel brewing :stirpot:Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
I put this in the Manu injury thread that I thought Jack needed to play Monday. That's awesome news
The easiest way to answer this: Would you rather have Capt. Jack or RJ? I still dry heave when I think of RJ driving to the hoop, and the slightest contact, be it air, another player's jersey, or hair, contact him and making him wobble that oversized head of his as if he got shot up in 'Nam, and completely destroying him mentally for this game and the next. Oh I think I'm going to be sick. ::: Blows chow ::: BTW - Chow = Wingstop & Starbucks, not some Asian dude, smartass.
:cry Great fucking post :cryQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Slurp, slurp.Quote:
Originally Posted by MI21
Yes it does. Read that book in that link or at least find the entire equation online. eFG% and TOV% play a huge part in the equation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drz
If Pop had some humor we'd see a "DNP - Abaka" on the boxscore ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
Now he tweeted he's listening to his pregame music?? lol what's going on
Jackson is in per Monroe
:cry Jack is a liar! :cry
Seems like Jax is a go for tonight. Hopefully Leonard too.