Stephen Jackson tweets he'll be back on Monday

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Originally Posted by crc21209

I sure hope so. There's no way the Spurs can expect to beat OKC by throwing only Green and Anderson on Durant, Durant would go for 35+ points easy.

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Correction. If the play like they have for most of the season, they have no shot at beating OKC.

tbh, I don't expect the Spurs to beat OKC regardless, unless we have one of those super-streaky shooting nights... but it's a December game, so no big deal and if the Spurs surprise me, even better yet...

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Originally Posted by FkLA

I think if youre expecting more than outside shooting from him offensively youre doing it wrong. His defense is fine, not elite or anything but its solid...and made that much more valuable by the fact that outside of Kawhi we dont have good perimeter defenders. His nastiness is needed too, esp after putting up with a fag like RJ for so long.

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I agree with all that.

I'm probably coming across as anti-Jax, which isn't the case. I'm just a little bothered by the pedestal he's put on around here; it's weird for me to see every other player get ramrodded up the ass by negative comments, when a guy who in my opinion does so little to help our win-loss column takes no heat whatsoever. Maybe I should think of the lack of hate as a positive thing.

OKC has been winning but theyre not that good
soft home schedule has been padding their wins
and theyve come close in a lot of games

As long as SA doesnt let thunders bigs go off then we have a chance
Durant always gets his
Westbrook always get his but really inefficently vs SA
martin is question mark but hes played well vs SA for his career

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I bet Richard Jefferson had better 'career numbers' than Jack... but he's a pussy and that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

Jack could be 1-15 from the floor in a game and I would not have a single issue with him taking a game-winning shot.

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agree, and I actually defend Bonner on here. I think Bonner is great for regular season games, maybe even limited playoff situations. He's actually playing tougher this season so I hope he can continue in that direction. But you can't compare his grit to someone like Jax. He's a guy you need in the trenches, especially when shit is hitting in the fan. Not sure if there is a Shit Hitting Fan stat, but Jax probably scores really high. some things just don't show up on the stat sheet.

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Originally Posted by freetiago

OKC has been winning but theyre not that good
soft home schedule has been padding their wins
and theyve come close in a lot of games

As long as SA doesnt let thunders bigs go off then we have a chance
Durant always gets his
Westbrook always get his but really inefficently vs SA
martin is question mark but hes played well vs SA for his career

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I'm more concerned with Tim and Tony being tired after the schedule we've had, plus no Manu to buy them some time as floor general.

Our bench has been feast or famine. It's been getting better, but it's not there yet where you could feel confident you're going to get a relatively solid line every time.

But it's early. I think that's what the Spurs will focus on as the season goes on: consistency.

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Originally Posted by Drz

1. I can't quote every stat, and win shares is my favorite catch-all. Let me know if you think there's a better one.

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WS48 is probably the oldest of the "advanced stats" and is antiquated at this point. Even PER is held in higher esteem.

I know you like WS48 since it relies mostly on eFG% and TO% -- Bonner's two best attributes. According to WS48, Bonner is like twice as good as Jackson ever was. Let us not pretend you just happen to pick that stat randomly :)

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Originally Posted by Drz

2. Completely agree with your facts. I could be wrong, but you seem to be implying that his efficiency has improved since he's come back to San Antonio, and if that's what you're implying, I disagree with that. His efficiency here seems in line with his career average.

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No, I meant that his role is changing. Thus the level of his efficiency is still unknown since we can't judge him using his other stops.

But even if you want to use his WS48, look at his two best stints by that stat: the 2002-03 season with the Spurs and last year's playoffs. You can't look at his .161 playoff WS48 and tell me that Jackson's efficiency hasn't improved.

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Originally Posted by Drz

3. I don't think he's had a "horrible" career, that was too strong of a word. He's obviously been a more than capable player. But I do think he is wildly overrated, especially on this board. Kind of an Allen Iverson lite.

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He's probably overrated. I'm not going to fight you there.

But that's largely because:

1) When he has been needed the most, he has produced for the Spurs. Fans remember that.

2) He is such a breath of fresh air from the player he replaced that a Spurs fan can't help but love him.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Guts, attitude, and grit are fantastic for liking the team, entertainment value, and being happy with the product that we spend our time and money on. Unfortunately, they have minimal translation to winning games.

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You should be careful there. If you want to run an anti-Jack campaign, you shouldn't mention winning because Jack has won everywhere he's been.

-Golden State's best team of the last couple decades was led by Stephen Jackson. Before he arrived, they sucked. After he left, they sucked.

-Same could be said for Charlotte. They sucked before he got there. When he arrived, he managed to carry that team to the playoffs as the team's best player. When he left, they soon became the WORST TEAM IN NBA HISTORY.

-That Indiana team he was a part of was the best team in the East that year before the Malice and the Palace took place.

Jack is a winner plain and simple. It doesn't show up in efficiency stats because, well, he's not efficient. But what he does, he does well. His specialties during his prime:

1. Perimeter defense (can't be encapsulated by a stat)

2. Being able to play a ton of minutes at a steady level (again, difficult to enumerate)

3. Creating un-assisted scoring chances that don't rely on teammates. Doing so hurts efficiency but every team has to score un-assisted baskets and that was Jack's specialty at other stops.


None of that makes for a shiny WS48 or PER ... but it has allowed Jack to win a lot of games in his career and help carry teams that really had no business of doing much of anything.

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Originally Posted by HI-FI

agree, and I actually defend Bonner on here. I think Bonner is great for regular season games, maybe even limited playoff situations. He's actually playing tougher this season so I hope he can continue in that direction. But you can't compare his grit to someone like Jax. He's a guy you need in the trenches, especially when shit is hitting in the fan. Not sure if there is a Shit Hitting Fan stat, but Jax probably scores really high. some things just don't show up on the stat sheet.

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I think we discussed this with DrZ in the past, the psychological aspect of the game, and while I can agree with him that's likely not really measurable, I personally think there's tangible impacts to the game that go beyond the numbers. I think it's in large part what makes guys like Jack or Manu be Jack or Manu instead one more of the bunch. They might not be blessed athletically or be natural-born talents, but they're never afraid to fail and they have a competitive drive that sets them apart. IMO, that kind of stuff is contagious and has a larger impact than just on themselves.

Good thing, at least Jack ]always has that will to play, that edge is missing in Kawhi IMO.

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Originally Posted by timvp

WS48 is probably the oldest of the "advanced stats" and is antiquated at this point. Even PER is held in higher esteem.

I know you like WS48 since it relies mostly on eFG% and TO% -- Bonner's two best attributes. According to WS48, Bonner is like twice as good as Jackson ever was. Let us not pretend you just happen to pick that stat randomly :)

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Win Shares doesn't use either of those.

How win shares are calculated: http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html

The summary is that WS is the sum of two components, offensive and defensive. The defensive component kind of sucks, because it doesn't account for differences amongst the five-man units. The offensive component breaks down each actual point produced and allocates the values amongst those who contributed to the point... for example, an assist is worth about half a point (slightly less for a 3).

I'm not sure where you've heard it's antiquated or not held in high esteem. It's the go-to stat on the other basketball boards I visit. You also said it hasn't been relevant since 1993, but the formulas it uses weren't developed until 2004.

Jack is going to get booed like crazy, I love it!

Bring back Jack on Monday, Kawhi on Tuesday, makes the most sense.

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Originally Posted by Buddy Holly

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Best news ive heard in a while!! Hell YES!!

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Abaka better not run up on him tbh.

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LOL these games got a little bit of a rivalry feel brewing :stirpot:

I put this in the Manu injury thread that I thought Jack needed to play Monday. That's awesome news

The easiest way to answer this: Would you rather have Capt. Jack or RJ? I still dry heave when I think of RJ driving to the hoop, and the slightest contact, be it air, another player's jersey, or hair, contact him and making him wobble that oversized head of his as if he got shot up in 'Nam, and completely destroying him mentally for this game and the next. Oh I think I'm going to be sick. ::: Blows chow ::: BTW - Chow = Wingstop & Starbucks, not some Asian dude, smartass.

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Originally Posted by timvp

WS48 is probably the oldest of the "advanced stats" and is antiquated at this point. Even PER is held in higher esteem.

I know you like WS48 since it relies mostly on eFG% and TO% -- Bonner's two best attributes. According to WS48, Bonner is like twice as good as Jackson ever was. Let us not pretend you just happen to pick that stat randomly :)

No, I meant that his role is changing. Thus the level of his efficiency is still unknown since we can't judge him using his other stops.

But even if you want to use his WS48, look at his two best stints by that stat: the 2002-03 season with the Spurs and last year's playoffs. You can't look at his .161 playoff WS48 and tell me that Jackson's efficiency hasn't improved.

He's probably overrated. I'm not going to fight you there.

But that's largely because

1) When he has been needed the most, he has produced for the Spurs. Fans remember that.

2) He is such a breath of fresh air from the player he replaced that a Spurs fan can't help but love him.



You should be careful there. If you want to run an anti-Jack campaign, you shouldn't mention winning because Jack has won everywhere he's been.

-Golden State's best team of the last couple decades was led by Stephen Jackson. Before he arrived, they sucked. After he left, they sucked.

-Same could be said for Charlotte. They sucked before he got there. When he arrived, he managed to carry that team to the playoffs as the team's best player. When he left, they soon became the WORST TEAM IN NBA HISTORY.

-That Indiana team he was a part of was the best team in the East that year before the Malice and the Palace took place.

Jack is a winner plain and simple. It doesn't show up in efficiency stats because, well, he's not efficient. But what he does, he does well. His specialties during his prime:

1. Perimeter defense (can't be encapsulated by a stat)

2. Being able to play a ton of minutes at a steady level (again, difficult to enumerate)

3. Creating un-assisted scoring chances that don't rely on teammates. Doing so hurts efficiency but every team has to score un-assisted baskets and that was Jack's specialty at other stops.


None of that makes for a shiny WS48 or PER ... but it has allowed Jack to win a lot of games in his career and help carry teams that really had no business of doing much of anything.

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:cry Great fucking post :cry

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Originally Posted by MI21

:cry Great fucking post :cry

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Slurp, slurp.

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Originally Posted by Drz

Win Shares doesn't use either of those.

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Yes it does. Read that book in that link or at least find the entire equation online. eFG% and TOV% play a huge part in the equation.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

Abaka better not run up on him tbh.

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If Pop had some humor we'd see a "DNP - Abaka" on the boxscore ;)

Now he tweeted he's listening to his pregame music?? lol what's going on

Jackson is in per Monroe

:cry Jack is a liar! :cry

Seems like Jax is a go for tonight. Hopefully Leonard too.