Green or Neal: Who'd you rather keep/trade?

I'll preface this by saying that I don't want to trade either. But the reality is, this team desperately needs another quality big and it's more than likely going to require one of these two to acquire it.

So with that in mind, here's the reasons for keeping/trading each . . .

Green - Keeping: He's a better, more versatile defender. Trading him would leave the Spurs without a single defense first type in the guard rotation and a lack of size in general. Despite his struggles playing the position full time the past month, he can play SF in a pinch, which is important given their lack of depth at the position.

Trading: He easily loses confidence, is an extremely streaky shooter and because of his offensive limitations, they're essentially forced to bring Ginobili off the bench (because he can't be paired with Neal for long stretches), despite having another guard who's more than capable of playing that role.

Neal - Keeping: He has infinite confidence and is their fourth best scorer (though he's been third best this season). For all their depth of scoring, they don't really have anyone else to fill that role, unless summer league Leonard suddenly re-emerges. If Green is traded, the guard rotation falls into a more natural order: Ginobili starts, he becomes the 6th man and De Colo the backup PG.

Trading: Despite his defensive improvement, he'll always be below average defensively. No matter how well he plays, he'll never be able to close games with any degree of regularity, because it would leave them too small/defensively deficient on the wings.

Ginobili. He would net the Spurs a difference making big-man.

(No, not really, just want to see the reaction from some, tbh)

I'd take the guy with 3 more years on his contract over a guy who's going to get paid next summer.

Is it possible that we trade Diaw(sorry if this is stupid)? I'm sure that we wouldn't get someone who is an a extremely good big man right away, but does anyone think we could at least get a young aggressive athletic big who isn't getting much playing time?

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Originally Posted by TimmehC

I'd take the guy with 3 more years on his contract over a guy who's going to get paid next summer.

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Given their prior history with getting players to take more than fair/flat out under market value contracts, there's a good chance they can get him to agree to a contract similar to Green's. I know he's three and a half years older, so this might be his only big contract, but still. Ultimately, he was a nobody toiling in Europe and they gave him the opportunity to play a fairly big role on an elite team. That's got to count for something . . . and if it doesn't, he's restricted and they've got the space to pay him significantly more if someone offer sheets him. I can't imagine him getting more than 5M at the absolute most, though.

enjoy that 9 mil danny

Give it another two weeks or so and the answer should become much clearer. If Green's defense doesn't improve when back at shooting guard, he may become expendable. If Neal doesn't adjust well to the changes that will come once Kawhi arrives, then the Spurs might look to sell high on him.

On top of that, in two weeks we'll know a lot more about Tim and Tiago can continue to start, which would have a ripple effect regarding the need of an addition bigman.

Too early to tell, IMO.

Theres no big man worth trading for that we could get without giving up Kawhi. We have to wait for free agency and cross our fingers.

It all depends on what happens when Kawhi returns. Green plays out of position at the 3 and although Neal is a better fit at the 2 he's best used as a scoring spark off the bench.

green is the most expendable. leonard plays better defense, neal scores better, and de colo has better play making. green can easily be replaced.

Like some said, lets wait a few weeks.
I think they could be tired, and playing less minutes with less responsibility could make a difference.
I just hope Kiwi is half what everybody is expecting...because if he is 100% of what fans are saying he is gonna be the next MVP...haha

kawhi will never be a serious offensive threat, but he could become a monster defender

In the past two games, Jack looks very old. Not only his shots are way off, which is understandable, but his lateral moves are way slow. Actually this is a little bit odd as he has finger injury and he's supposed to do all the running and basic drills. But he looks like a player coming to training camp.

Anyway, this makes him expendable if he can't get back to his normal form. I wonder how much Jazz wants for Jefferson/Millsap besides taking back an expired contract.

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Originally Posted by robdiaz2191

kawhi will never be a serious offensive threat, but he could become a monster defender

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I don't think he's a go-to guy on offense but he's certainly capable of getting his own. In college he got by with midrange shots and putbacks but now has a reliable 3 point stroke.

Danny has been playing out of position for a month, tbh. Neal is a hero-baller who everyone seems to overate because he can hit some buckets (while ignoring his awful defense and, frankly, his streaky shooting). I find it hard to believe a volume shooter who can't play a lick of defense is going to get "paid" next year, tbh.

Anyways, I'd rather keep Green and trade Neal.

BTW, Neal is not our third-best scorer. That is completely false. He scores less points than Manu with more minutes and more shot attempts per game (10.0 vs. 9.2). Manu's per is 18.0. Neal's? 12.8. Neal is overrated, just as I said. Dude is shooting 43% from the field and 36% from three-point range. Those are okay numbers, but it's frankly not something I salivate over and it's not like he gets to the foul line often like Manu. And Neal sucks ass at defense. He is a liability.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Give it another two weeks or so and the answer should become much clearer. If Green's defense doesn't improve when back at shooting guard, he may become expendable. If Neal doesn't adjust well to the changes that will come once Kawhi arrives, then the Spurs might look to sell high on him.

On top of that, in two weeks we'll know a lot more about Tim and Tiago can continue to start, which would have a ripple effect regarding the need of an addition bigman.

Too early to tell, IMO.

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Why? You act like we haven't seen Green as an (almost) strictly SG and Neal as an (almost) strictly PG. We've seen that movie and the sequel . . . they were called last season and early this season. Expect the results to be more or less that same this time, since both Green and Neal are virtually the same players.

To me, them continuing to start is mostly dependent on whether they feel comfortable with the asking price for a starting caliber PF or not. If not, they could stick with it and instead pursue a backup C. Even if they go that route though, they need someone like an Amir Johnson moreso than a Camby. Otherwise, the big rotation is going to be even more rigid than it is now.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Give it another two weeks or so and the answer should become much clearer. If Green's defense doesn't improve when back at shooting guard, he may become expendable. If Neal doesn't adjust well to the changes that will come once Kawhi arrives, then the Spurs might look to sell high on him.

On top of that, in two weeks we'll know a lot more about Tim and Tiago can continue to start, which would have a ripple effect regarding the need of an addition bigman.

Too early to tell, IMO.

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Still think the PF spot could use some better depth, however, if Tiago/Tim work well I really think the Spurs could use another legit iso-type scorer. Not that we want someone to just go iso, but someone who at least has the ability to create for themselves if things breakdown.

I'd rather trade Green. Like someone said, he's more expendable.

Ohh that's tough but I think I'd rather trade Neal assuming I could get equal value for Green. Neal has clearly hit his ceiling he's not going to get any better than he is whereas Green is younger and could possibly develop a little more offensively speaking. Neal is an overrated shooter, he's overconfident to where he's more likely than not to shoot you out of a game if you give him big minutes, his defense varies from worst in the league to average, and he's really only suitable to being a change-of-pace guard when he's hot.

Wesley Witherspoon could probably do what green does tbh
and hes a better fit at SG/SF with his length and better athleticism

Spurs are too deep on the perimeter. For the moment, it hasn't been an issue because players have been injured but if these injuries end, it could become one. Don't forget the 2009-2010 season where Spurs were too deep on the wing and it ended with players asking to be traded/waived.

To me, even if he is a good player, Neal has to go. Aside of the reasons given in this thread, Mills should also be mentioned. Neal biggest quality is to bring a scoring punch from the bench and Mills can do that nearly as well.

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Originally Posted by 024

green is the most expendable. leonard plays better defense, neal scores better, and de colo has better play making. green can easily be replaced.

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This.

keep both.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Spurs are too deep on the perimeter. For the moment, it hasn't been an issue because players have been injured but if these injuries end, it could become one. Don't forget the 2009-2010 season where Spurs were too deep on the wing and it ended with players asking to be traded/waived.

To me, even if he is a good player, Neal has to go. Aside of the reasons given in this thread, Mills should also be mentioned. Neal biggest quality is to bring a scoring punch from the bench and Mills can do that nearly as well.

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Per Manu's interview a couple of weeks back "Neal is one of the best shooter in the NBA and teams are always in search of a guy that comes from the bench and provides outside shooting. There are not many like Neal around."
And he is probably right.

In general, when Green is shooting I have the feeling he might miss. When Neal is shooting, the mechanics are so perfect, that I am always surprised when he misses.
I think that without 3s falling Spurs PO will be very short.

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Originally Posted by temujin

Per Manu's interview a couple of weeks back "Neal is one of the best shooter in the NBA and teams are always in search of a guy that comes from the bench and provides outside shooting. There are not many like Neal around."
And he is probably right.

In general, when Green is shooting I have the feeling he might miss. When Neal is shooting, the mechanics are so perfect, that I am always surprised when he misses.
I think that without 3s falling Spurs PO will be very short.

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Not necessarily. There tons of guys in the NBA who could make shots if given the green light to shoot.

I would take Neal over Mills simply for the clutch shooting. Neal is incredibly frustrating when his shots don't fall, and he's arguably got the worst shot selection of any Spur this past decade.

However, we can't have enough players who aren't afraid of big moments.

I'm sick and tired of watching Danny Green miss crucial wide open 3 after wide open 3. I think he's a good 9th or 10th man on the roster, but putting him in the starting lineup is a bit much. He's a glorified Keith Bogans.

Keep both. I don't think there are better players in the league that are getting paid as little as what Neal and Green are getting paid.

Assuming they have equal value in a trade, I want to keep Green. He's still young and has more upside. Better defender and his shooting can get better. Neal is as good as he's going to get. With the Spurs system, someone else can step in to make 3's. Maybe not as good as Neal but good enough.

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Originally Posted by temujin

Per Manu's interview a couple of weeks back "Neal is one of the best shooter in the NBA and teams are always in search of a guy that comes from the bench and provides outside shooting. There are not many like Neal around."
And he is probably right.

In general, when Green is shooting I have the feeling he might miss. When Neal is shooting, the mechanics are so perfect, that I am always surprised when he misses.
I think that without 3s falling Spurs PO will be very short.

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I agree with everything you said. Green might have great 3P% but he isn't an as good shooter as Neal. His biggest weakness is that he is extremely streaky.

My point is that Mills is also an heck of a shooter. If Spurs trade away Neal, they will have with Mills another great shooter on the bench.

Green gets paid more, so he is the guy the Spurs will get more for in return. Neal hasn't been playing consistently but he has way more mojo than Green. Green has more size and is the better defender though. It all depends who Spurs could get. Jax is looking over the hill and making poor decisions, but he has the coming back from injury excuse. I think any of them are vulnerable to a trade. Pair up Dejuan with any trade, get rid of him.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I'll preface this by saying that I don't want to trade either. But the reality is, this team desperately needs another quality big and it's more than likely going to require one of these two to acquire it.

So with that in mind, here's the reasons for keeping/trading each . . .

Green - Keeping: He's a better, more versatile defender. Trading him would leave the Spurs without a single defense first type in the guard rotation and a lack of size in general. Despite his struggles playing the position full time the past month, he can play SF in a pinch, which is important given their lack of depth at the position.

Trading: He easily loses confidence, is an extremely streaky shooter and because of his offensive limitations, they're essentially forced to bring Ginobili off the bench (because he can't be paired with Neal for long stretches), despite having another guard who's more than capable of playing that role.

Neal - Keeping: He has infinite confidence and is their fourth best scorer (though he's been third best this season). For all their depth of scoring, they don't really have anyone else to fill that role, unless summer league Leonard suddenly re-emerges. If Green is traded, the guard rotation falls into a more natural order: Ginobili starts, he becomes the 6th man and De Colo the backup PG.

Trading: Despite his defensive improvement, he'll always be below average defensively. No matter how well he plays, he'll never be able to close games with any degree of regularity, because it would leave them too small/defensively deficient on the wings.

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Please provide the link or the article where Pop has publicly stated that the Spurs need another BIG.

It never happened and it probably never will so stop these wishful thinking threads.

The thing about trade value is that somebody else has to want what you have. I cannot think of why anyone else would want Green.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Spurs are too deep on the perimeter. For the moment, it hasn't been an issue because players have been injured but if these injuries end, it could become one. Don't forget the 2009-2010 season where Spurs were too deep on the wing and it ended with players asking to be traded/waived.

To me, even if he is a good player, Neal has to go. Aside of the reasons given in this thread, Mills should also be mentioned. Neal biggest quality is to bring a scoring punch from the bench and Mills can do that nearly as well.

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This was my mentality throughout the summer and early on this season, but now I'm not so sure. They need someone besides the big three who can get their own and though Mills has shown the ability to do so at times, he's mostly been relegated to being a spot up shooter.

The best argument for trading Neal is that it would probably force Leonard into becoming the fourth option, which is ultimately what needs to happen anyway if they're going to win the championship. Also, though Neal is nice insurance for Ginobili, they're not winning a championship anyway unless Ginobili is at least close to peak form.

silverblk mystix, are you retarded? I never said Pop said that; it's just common sense that they need a big and that it'll probably require one of Green/Neal headlining a package to acquire one. Unlike the past few seasons, there's good reason to think they'll acquire one. One is that Pop no longer trusts Bonner, in addition to never trusting Blair. Another is the overload in the back court.

I don't think any of our guards not named Manu or TP have that much trade value.

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Originally Posted by Strategic

The thing about trade value is that somebody else has to want what you have. I cannot think of why anyone else would want Green.

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I can...he has a quick shot release and when he's in rhythm, he's as good a 3 point shooter as anyone in the league.