Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Hornets - Dec. 21

Tim Duncan A-
Outstanding in the first half on both ends of the court. Much quieter in the final two quarters.

Manu Ginobili B-
Athletically, he looks really good; no signs of injury. Needs a little sharpening but he's getting close.

Tony Parker B
Not very good defensively and passing was iffy but his scoring was huge down the stretch.

Danny Green B-
Odd shot selection from the perimeter but he scored at the rim, rebounded and defended.

Gary Neal D+
Looked injured or tired. Slower than normal on D. Wasn't his aggressive self on offense.

Tiago Splitter B+
Good on defense and crashed the glass hard. Passed well but offense was unworthy of notation.

Boris Diaw A-
Aggression from last game actually carried over. Stout in just about every area. Much improved.

Kawhi Leonard A-
His return was a success. Made instant difference on defense and in transition. Great to have him back.

Stephen Jackson C
Looked a little bit better physically. Decisions on offense mostly questionable. Up and down on D.

Nando De Colo B+
Didn't push the issue much but played sound basketball on offense. D was lacking at times.

Matt Bonner Inc.
Ineffective against Ryan Anderson. Had a good pass off the dribble.

Pop C
Seemed intent on making the game difficult. Scrambled the rotation each quarter.

What's with POP and all these strange rotations?? He should know by now what kind of team he has. It's the same team he had last year.

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Originally Posted by weebo

What's with POP and all these strange rotations?? He should know by now what kind of team he has. It's the same team he had last year.

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That's the problem with giving older coaches like Pop stacked teams. They have a tendency to go mad scientist instead of sticking with what works.

de colo's move on mason A+

Come on son... Manu sat down with 8 mins left and a 14+ (IIRC) point lead and basically told Tony to just dribble the time off and Tony went full on Kirby Westchuck hero mode to bring back the Mosquitos into the game...

I'm not one to criticize Tony often, but he ended having to fix the mess he himself created. All in all, C was probably more appropriate for TP. He can't take such a severe crap on the game because against good teams we're not coming back from it.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Come on son... Manu sat down with 8 mins left and a 14+ (IIRC) point lead and basically told Tony to just dribble the time off and Tony went full on Kirby Westchuck hero mode to bring back the Mosquitos into the game...

I'm not one to criticize Tony often, but he ended having to fix the mess he himself created. All in all, C was probably more appropriate for TP. He can't take such a severe crap on the game because against good teams we're not coming back from it.

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:lmao:lmao:lmao

I was gonna wonder why ElNono was going in without lube on Tony but remembered it was Nono, tbh. :lol

danny green should get an f. 1-5 from 3 is garbage. and most of them he was wide open

Mills? DNP - CD after nuggets. Is he injured?

Also, where's the + for Neal coming from? He drove Tim to the game?

Danny Green should not even be playing anymore. Can't shoot, can't go to the rim, can't create his own shot, can't play reliable defense, ....too many can'ts smh

spurs 3 point shooting this season has been garbage
and will continue to be most likely
not a good sign for a team that relies on tony parker to see be the hero
without his floor spacing he isnt so good

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Originally Posted by AussieFanKurt

Mills? DNP - CD after nuggets. Is he injured?

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Yet Green can shit the bed night in and night out, but he starts.

I really liked the more active version of Boris. Let's hope keeps it up.

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Originally Posted by weebo

Yet Green can shit the bed night in and night out, but he starts.

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He will become Finley 2.0

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Come on son... Manu sat down with 8 mins left and a 14+ (IIRC) point lead and basically told Tony to just dribble the time off and Tony went full on Kirby Westchuck hero mode to bring back the Mosquitos into the game...

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Yeah, except that's not what happened. Manu went out with the Spurs +12. The following possessions were: Splitter traveling, Green missed layup, Jack turnover, Jack misses three-pointer and Duncan missed layup. At that point, Spurs were only +4. Parker goes into attack-mode and goes 3-for-3 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line with an assist and a turnover. In all, the French trio scored 14 straight points after the Hornets cut it to four.

So, yeah, no.

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Originally Posted by weebo

Danny Green should not even be playing anymore. Can't shoot, can't go to the rim, can't create his own shot, can't play reliable defense, ....too many can'ts smh

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To his credit, he made two layups today. Two :wow

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Originally Posted by freetiago

spurs 3 point shooting this season has been garbage

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Fifth in the league with Ginobili and Neal yet to really get hot from deep? Yeah, I'm not worried, tbh. They aren't going to match last year's percentage but that was mostly a result of Manu shooting fluke-ishly well, Bonner playing a lot and He Who Shall Not Be Named getting those wide open corner threes early in the season. 38% instead of 40% or whatever is fine, especially considering that wasn't a true 40% anyways since Bonner and HWSNBN wouldn't shoot that well in the postseason anyways.

Not to mention the Spurs have been shooting lights out from two this season - better that than relying on players like Bonner and HWSNBN to continue their hot shooting into the playoffs.

Spurs only notable 3 point shooting nights came vs denver houston and the bobcats
three of the worst 3 point defending teams in the league
theyve crapped the bed vs all the elite teams
the true percentage is in the low to mid 30s probably
for a team thats primary offense is spreading the floor for pick and rolls it makes it a lot easier to defend
pack the paint and contest duncans mid range
when tim doesnt get all the time in the world to shoot his midrange shots his percentage goes way down
tony is inconsistent and the floor spacers will brick everything

teams needs to pick it up from behind the arc tbh
and ginobili and green are looking like they will be streaky all season

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Originally Posted by timvp

Boris Diaw A-
Aggression from last game actually carried over. Stout in just about every area. Much improved.

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http://memecrunch.com/meme/8HNI/i-se...here/image.png

I knew he was far from any good, but I'm starting to really notice just how atrocious Neal is on defense. Everyone is having their way with him and he needs to be seriously good on the other end to even remotely make up for it. Sure it just might be health problems but his minutes must be under serious threat right now. They should be.

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Needs a little sharpening but he's getting close.

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You've been saying this for a while now that he's getting close. Maybe it's time to realize that this is the best Manu's going to be from now on.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Yeah, except that's not what happened. Manu went out with the Spurs +12. The following possessions were: Splitter traveling, Green missed layup, Jack turnover, Jack misses three-pointer and Duncan missed layup. At that point, Spurs were only +4. Parker goes into attack-mode and goes 3-for-3 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line with an assist and a turnover. In all, the French trio scored 14 straight points after the Hornets cut it to four.

So, yeah, no.

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Nope. I didn't record the game but I recall it pretty well. He went hero mode right after Manu walked to the bench. At the very least back to back broken plays. Sure, they might end up showing as 'Tiago traveled' or 'Jack misses 3', but they're absolutely broken plays after Tony wanted to go Westchuck on the Pelicanos

lol intent to chuck

I'm just glad that Kawhi is back. With all these injuries, we've had the optimal amount of chaos that Pop seems to like to take into the Rodeo RT in a few weeks. Always a chance these guys could gel and start spring with something special.

Only other real thought was I'm glad my boy De Colo is still playing focused and well out there. Building consistency, but also he's seeming a lot more tough nosed than Beno (you never know how these euros will turn into), so hopefully he can manage to maintain consistency of play as he improves. Every game hi seems more like the kind of player who will find a way to contribute even if he's not hitting his shot. :tu

Does Kawhi have a post-up game?

I virtually never see him attempt a post-up but tonight he did once successfully. Did he play in the post in college much? Or from his sporadic post-ups in the NBA have you(anyone) seen anything impressive?

Thanks for the grades.

Pop will have to figure how to use all that depth. My guess is that his first move will be to cut Bonner minutes and play some small ball with Kawhi or Jack at the 4.

Hero Ball is awful at PG. Nando is 10 times better. I don't mind Hero Ball seeing some minutes at SG (~10 minutes or so), but he should not play backup PG. Nando proved his worth tonight while Hero Ball was total shit.

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Does Kawhi have a post-up game?

I virtually never see him attempt a post-up but tonight he did once successfully. Did he play in the post in college much? Or from his sporadic post-ups in the NBA have you(anyone) seen anything impressive?

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He did a lot of it in Summer League, so it seems like something he's been working on to add to his game. Whether that's him or the coaches obviously it's a smart move. He has such a knack for getting to the ball under the rim, he's so strong and agile, that anything that puts him, with the ball, near the rim is probably going to turn out well. lol

Imagine playing a big lineup of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw, and Kawhi taking the other team's two guard to the block 5 possessions in a row. I don't think Kawhi has any trouble D'ing up NBA two guards, so it'd be like a guaranteed two baskets and then a time out by the opposing team's coach. Now that he's back he can actually start working this stuff into his game at NBA speed, then we'll see how much of the hype is justified (I'm thinking a lot of it :greedy )

Thanks for the grades. I think Neal himself was none too pleased with his game tonight. He looked disgusted on the bench after he was taken off the floor. While I thought he started the game with some real energy on defense, he got seriously lit up in the second half. Not surprisingly it seemed to really go to hell for him when he was playing the 1. I noticed several plays in a row where he gave up lay-ups by losing his man. He made all their pg's look like TP, as if he was not capable of staying with them. You add that to a poor night of scoring and you have a big liability.
All this being said, I'm a fan of Neal, and think his ability to hit shots is an undeniable strength for our team. Tonight was a bad night for him, on several levels. Glad for the win nonetheless.
:flag:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

lol intent to chuck

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Nathan89

Does Kawhi have a post-up game?

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Right before he was sidelined, the Spurs had starting calling some post-ups for him. It's good to see that they didn't abandon that strategy. It's a good way to give him a few touches and take advantage of his size.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

lol intent to chuck

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Thanks for the grades.

Pop will have to figure how to use all that depth. My guess is that his first move will be to cut Bonner minutes and play some small ball with Kawhi or Jack at the 4.

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Yea well we do agree on that but IMO we have to wait for the ASB and after it Pop will have his rotation. He always at the break does the rethinking and plan for the rest of the season. Let's hope the rotation will be set.

It's difficult to choose between Mills and Neal and now De Colo.
IMO the froncourt is much more easier. Now Blair is a garbage man and the trick is to find the place for Bonner as we have to deal with Boris as a first man of the bench.

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Originally Posted by spurs10

think Neal himself was none too pleased with his game tonight. He looked disgusted on the bench after he was taken off the floor.

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Nah Neal always looks like that.

But seriously if this wasn't an F grade performance from Neal I shudder to think what an F would look like.

SO interested for the trade period. Something has GOT to give, you just cant have Mills, De Colo, Joseph and Neal in the team with Bonner, Blair and Green and not have enough pieces to to get a decent trade. If all the recent rotations have told us anything, its that ALL 7 players can be replaced without any fuss, they are all expendable.... trade-able.

7 boards in 27 minutes is crashing the glass hard? Not trying to be sarcastic, I really am curious.

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Originally Posted by Manufan909

7 boards in 27 minutes is crashing the glass hard? Not trying to be sarcastic, I really am curious.

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Tiago hasn't crashed the defensive glass well this year.

That said, if Kawhi becomes the second guy with a good post game on this team I am legitimately excited for the future. If KL can score from the post, hit threes, and drive from time to time he can add a wrinkle to the Spurs offense that's been lacking recently.

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Originally Posted by racm

That's the problem with giving older coaches like Pop stacked teams. They have a tendency to go mad scientist instead of sticking with what works.

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It's ironic Pop is able to do more with less but less with more.

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

Yea well we do agree on that but IMO we have to wait for the ASB and after it Pop will have his rotation. He always at the break does the rethinking and plan for the rest of the season. Let's hope the rotation will be set.

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Pop did the same thing in 09-10. He couldn't figure out a rotation even after AllStar break. The only thing that helped him was Finley wanting out and Parker going down with an injury.

I'm not one to criticize Tony often, but he ended having to fix the mess he himself created. All in all, C was probably more appropriate for TP. He can't take such a severe crap on the game because against good teams we're not coming back from it.[/QUOTE]

:lol:lol:lolCome on, E-N, at least put that in blue!

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Originally Posted by Manufan909

7 boards in 27 minutes is crashing the glass hard? Not trying to be sarcastic, I really am curious.

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All his boards were contested, he boxes out, but i agree his grade is too high...

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Originally Posted by Brunodf

All his boards were contested, he boxes out, but i agree his grade is too high...

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He has not hops and he also lost some weight, making it harder to fight for position.

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Originally Posted by AussieFanKurt

Mills? DNP - CD after nuggets. Is he injured?

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nah man, he was running well & making a good amount of his shots during both pre-game shootaround & pre-second half shootaround.

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Originally Posted by Stabula

Nah Neal always looks like that.

But seriously if this wasn't an F grade performance from Neal I shudder to think what an F would look like.

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He only missed 3 shots. So there's that.

If he went like 2-12, that would have done a lot more damage to our offense. He knew he didn't have it tonight and pulled the reigns in instead of shooting 6-24.

No words to express how happy I am to see Leonard back. Looked darn good in his limited minutes. :tu

I only disagree with Boris Diaw's grade. He should have a B or B-. Ryan Anderson could have easily killed the win if he had hit the open 3's late in the game. Diaw had the assignment of covering him and spent most of his time playing with the screens and trying to help on the guards leaving Anderson open. Thank the good Lord, Anderson was off a little on the shots or we would be looking at a loss.

One other question for you Timvp, is Bonner having back problems? It looks to me like he has been able to go a few games but lacks the movement he normally has in other games. His shot has looked a little off this season. Even though he is hitting 49 % from 3, it still looks a little like he is not getting the lift on the shot. Maybe his back is giving him trouble.

Manu had a good game full of intangibles tbh

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Originally Posted by maverick1948

I only disagree with Boris Diaw's grade. He should have a B or B-. Ryan Anderson could have easily killed the win if he had hit the open 3's late in the game. Diaw had the assignment of covering him and spent most of his time playing with the screens and trying to help on the guards leaving Anderson open. Thank the good Lord, Anderson was off a little on the shots or we would be looking at a loss.

One other question for you Timvp, is Bonner having back problems? It looks to me like he has been able to go a few games but lacks the movement he normally has in other games. His shot has looked a little off this season. Even though he is hitting 49 % from 3, it still looks a little like he is not getting the lift on the shot. Maybe his back is giving him trouble.

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Anderson was 5-18 or something like that at one point. I'd applaud Diaw for challenging a guy shooting under 30% for the night to keep chucking.

Bonner shot about 100 3's before the game and didn't seem injured a bit. His shot looked good. Don't recall him playing much in the game though. I really liked the rotation between Tim, Tiago, and Boris.

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Originally Posted by maverick1948

I only disagree with Boris Diaw's grade. He should have a B or B-. Ryan Anderson could have easily killed the win if he had hit the open 3's late in the game. Diaw had the assignment of covering him and spent most of his time playing with the screens and trying to help on the guards leaving Anderson open. Thank the good Lord, Anderson was off a little on the shots or we would be looking at a loss.

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Anderson only attempted two three-pointers in the fourth quarter. Both came in transition early in the shot clock after the Hornets stole the ball. I don't think Diaw had a lot of blame there.

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Originally Posted by maverick1948

One other question for you Timvp, is Bonner having back problems? It looks to me like he has been able to go a few games but lacks the movement he normally has in other games. His shot has looked a little off this season. Even though he is hitting 49 % from 3, it still looks a little like he is not getting the lift on the shot. Maybe his back is giving him trouble.

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If you're talking recently, he got kneed in the ribs recently and could be slowed from that. If you're talking the whole season, I'd blame his age. At 32 and not athletic to begin with, he's the age where he'll noticeably begin to slow down.

The TD/TS combo has been quite dominent inside. By the time 2nd half rolls around opposing D's are adjusting by crowding the laneway and in this game doubling the post whether it was Tim or Tiago. Sean elliott
hinted at this when Tiago got the ball and travelled on the double team. You had Tony Parker making the entry pass which was the first mistake but the second time through Tiago you had Danny Green making the cut. Should be Green or Neal making the entry and Tony doing the cutting.


Now it's up to the head of the snake and coach POp to adjust.

Work in progress really. Hopefully Pop doesn't panic by taking Tiagio out of the starting line-up chasing that all too famliar Spacing. That might be the quick-fix but doesn take into account the big-picture. The Spurs offense is evolving.

In the second part of the second quarter Pop went with last year starting lineup and it dominated immediately, actually the best ball movement of the night was a quick passing sequence between TP Tim Boris for an open 3pter by KY. We also went on big runs with TP Nando Boris playing at the same time in the last few games.

I think Pop is serious about Tim Tiago but my eyes tells it just isn't a great fit at least with a one dimensional shooter like Green at the 2, even with Tiago playing out of his mind like he is currently.

I think that starting De Colo could be an idea that that could make the twin towers work. One could argue that we only lost the WCF because of Danny Green choking but Pop is giving him more minutes than ever... I'd rather bet on Nando's playmaking than on Green's shooting over a 7 game series.

Pop tried shortening the bigs rotation, but what about shortening the guards rotation as well? Goods things rarely happen without one of TP Nando or Manu, obviously that kind of move should happen after the trade deadline if they want to move some guards tho.

Last year strength had everything to do with the ball movement, we're lucky enough to have gotten another playmaker on the level of Boris or close enough, if you take him out and don't put another one in things will get stagnant and we will look like a middle of the pack pretender...

Manu could start as well obviously, could arguably be an even better idea.

Also feels like the bad combination of Boris Tiago should only happen with KY at the 3 to try to make up for the lack of rebounding of that frontline.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Manu could start as well obviously, could arguably be an even better idea.

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That would be the solution in my book. Maximise Manu's strength to run the pick and roll better with Tiago. Too many times i see Tony miss Tiago on the roll or drive into where Tiago's rolling. It happened a few times in the Hornets game. Plus i see the chances of teams leaving Manu open from the three-point line lessen than Green who is streaky at best. Also, like Kawai Manu wont settle for the longshot, cutting and finishing better. In turn you maximise Tiago's passing ability.

The only problem is? Will Pop treat Green as he has done with other former and present players. Will he be concerned how it's going to effect Green's mental capacity coming off the bench?

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Originally Posted by Slippy

That would be the solution in my book. Maximise Manu's strength to run the pick and roll better with Tiago. Too many times i see Tony miss Tiago on the roll or drive into where Tiago's rolling. It happened a few times in the Hornets game. Plus i see the chances of teams leaving Manu open from the three-point line lessen than Green who is streaky at best. Also, like Kawai Manu wont settle for the longshot, cutting and finishing better. In turn you maximise Tiago's passing ability.

The only problem is? Will Pop treat Green as he has done with other former and present players. Will he be concerned how it's going to effect Green's mental capacity coming off the bench?

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I think it's the perfect situation for everyone. Manu's going to make the other starters better. Also it takes pressure of Green because he's coming off the bench. I think that pressure got to him against OKC and Pop ended up making that move anyway. It would be stupid to go down the same route if it's avoidable like we've done with Bonner for so long.

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Originally Posted by capek

He did a lot of it in Summer League, so it seems like something he's been working on to add to his game. Whether that's him or the coaches obviously it's a smart move. He has such a knack for getting to the ball under the rim, he's so strong and agile, that anything that puts him, with the ball, near the rim is probably going to turn out well. lol

Imagine playing a big lineup of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw, and Kawhi taking the other team's two guard to the block 5 possessions in a row. I don't think Kawhi has any trouble D'ing up NBA two guards, so it'd be like a guaranteed two baskets and then a time out by the opposing team's coach. Now that he's back he can actually start working this stuff into his game at NBA speed, then we'll see how much of the hype is justified (I'm thinking a lot of it :greedy )

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Uhhh.....



With a lineup of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw, how much real estate do you think Kawhi would have to operate in the paint?


If the Spurs wanted to play through Kawhi in the post, Bonner and Jackson would almost certainly have to be a part of the equation.

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Originally Posted by spursmartyr

Uhhh.....



With a lineup of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw, how much real estate do you think Kawhi would have to operate in the paint?


If the Spurs wanted to play through Kawhi in the post, Bonner and Jackson would almost certainly have to be a part of the equation.

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Diaw in the corner, and Tim/Tiago at the high/low post on one side of the paint, and Tony feeding Kawhi in the block on the other. Kawhi could pass out to Duncan for a baseline J, to a cutting Tiago, or to Diaw for a three. Or take his man to the bucket. Plenty of options if you have a modicum of imagination. Obviously it's not the most balanced of line ups, but I thought I made it clear enough that it was just a fantasy of mine anyway. Like, something that would be fun to see, but not something I actually expect to see.

You see?

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Originally Posted by spursmartyr

Uhhh.....



With a lineup of Duncan/Splitter/Diaw, how much real estate do you think Kawhi would have to operate in the paint?


If the Spurs wanted to play through Kawhi in the post, Bonner and Jackson would almost certainly have to be a part of the equation.

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It would be a strong lineup defensively.