Stephen Jackson the full-time power forward

Stephen Jackson came into the league as a shooting guard. He has since transitioned to the small forward position. Is it time to slide him over another spot and make him a full-time power forward?

What sounds like a peculiar notion the first time the vibration passes through the eardrum actually makes some logical sense after allowing for ample cranial marination.

• The power forward position is by far the weakest spot for the Spurs, to the point that the coaching staff has been forced to start two centers. DeJuan Blair, as it stands, lacks the physical capacity to play in the NBA. Pop is desperately attempting to wean the team from relying on Matt Bonner’s regular season greatness. And then there is Boris Diaw. Undoubtedly talented yet also undoubtedly apathetic. Maybe Diaw will show up consistently when the games really start to matter. But, then again, maybe not. Who knows what he’ll feel like doing when the bright lights shine? I certainly don’t.
  
  
• Trading for bigman help sounds reasonable but that’s much easier accomplished on the ESPN Trade Machine than in reality. The Spurs would need a big who is intelligent to fit in without the benefit of a training camp and only limited practice time. That player would also need to be coordinated enough to fit San Antonio’s system. Bigmen blessed with intelligence and coordination aren’t placed on the open market often. When they do appear, the asking price begins at an arm and a leg and goes up from there.
  
  
• A few potential candidates are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a contract. Alas, these so-called candidates are rife with maladies ranging from mental makeup question marks to brittle sinews originally formed in prehistoric times. Finding an NBA level contributor in this human recycle bin is improbable at best, foolhardy at worst.
  
  
• Jackson’s fit offensively while at power forward would be seamless. He simply needs to space the floor, which is something he does instinctively anyways. Additionally, his ball-handling and ability to create shots would become even larger advantages against opposing bigmen.
  
  
• Can Jackson endure on defense if he’s permanently at power forward? Considering that grit and toughness are his two eternal traits, I believe he can. We’ve seen some glimpses of this alignment and Jackson has held up well in the past. If still unconvinced, compare him to Diaw. Jackson is the same height and he’s already posting superior rebounding numbers. When he has played power forward this season, he’s averaging 11.3 rebounds per 48 minutes (last season with the Spurs, that number was 9.7). Diaw, comparatively, is averaging only 7.1 rebounds per 48 minutes when playing power forward this season.
  
  
• The Spurs have long been searching for a Robert Horry replacement. If you remember correctly, Horry was a converted small forward who made the switch after his quickness, or lack thereof, on the perimeter became burdensome. Jackson, who will be 35 years old come the playoffs, is already relatively sluggish on the perimeter and his jets will only get cooler from here on out. If he successfully evolves, it could be a career lengthening decision.
  
  
• The basketball association famous for the enormous people it employs is, as a whole, getting littler. The small forwards of yesteryear (or even yesterday, in some cases) are becoming power forwards. For example, Carmelo Anthony has spent 90% of his minutes at power forwards this year. He's not alone. Other examples include: LeBron James (69%), Danilo Gallinari (45%), Andrei Kirilenko (35%), Gerald Wallace (29%) and Kevin Durant (17%).
  
  
• By sliding Jackson up to power forward, that leaves Manu Ginobili free to absorb the backup small forward minutes. By my subjective observations, Ginobili has been better defending small forwards this season than shooting guards. As he ages, I wholeheartedly believe it’s safer to bet that the Argentine will remain tough enough to defend bigger small forwards rather than quick enough to defend faster shooting guards.
  
  
• This alignment also opens up both backup guard positions. Nando De Colo (or Patrick Mills, depending on your hemisphere of choice) would have a clear path to permanently win a spot in the rotation as the second string point guard. Even more significant is the trickle-down effect of Gary Neal being able to play backup shooting guard rather than being shoehorned into a point guard role. Neal is quite possibly too valuable to banish from the rotation completely so, given that near inevitability, I’d much rather see him at his natural position.

In a scenario in which Jackson is moved to power forward and competes with Diaw for the chief backup bigman slot in the rotation, I fail to see a downside. If Jackson proves to be the best man for the job, that allows the rest of the roster to fall into place. If it lights a fire under Diaw, that’d be great as well. If neither happens, the Spurs are basically back to where they are today, and that's not a bad spot to be in.

From imposing shooting guard to courageous power forward is truly a unique career path. However, for the sakes of both San Antonio as a whole and Jackson as an individual, it may very well be a path worth venturing.

I was going to mention Melo, although younger, he also has improved most of his stats across the board playing mostly at PF this season. This move would help give NDC some extra minutes as well, all I'm asking is for is around 13-18 min a game.

Boris has been way better than Sjax in the last few games tho.

I think you're underestimating Boris' impact tbh, I love SJax at PF but the ball movement and the playmakers of this team are still its main strength.

Also it's funny that you question what Boris will do in the PO when Tiago and Green both choked epicly last year... Also you're pushing for the spurs to get smaller overall, I don't like that either.

I wouldn't mind going back to Tim Boris and have Tiago SJax behind that, right amount of tougness in both pairings but if Pop is serious about Tim Tiago I don't see Boris losing his spot.

:tu

Interesting stuff timvp. Do you see this as being something we might employ in practice, or is this more of a hypothetical thought experiment?

Loving your work as always

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Boris has been way better than Sjax in the last few games tho.

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Boris has been good for the last 1.25 games. The weeks before that ....... not so much.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

I think you're underestimating Boris' impact tbh

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His impact this season hasn't been very noteworthy.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

, I love SJax at PF but the ball movement and the playmakers of this team are still its main strength.

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Jackson would be a well above average playmaker at power forward.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Also it's funny that you question what Boris will do in the PO when Tiago and Green both choked epicly last year

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Not sure how that fits into the argument. Besides, Diaw wasn't exactly clutch against the Thunder either. Jackson, though, was.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Also you're pushing for the spurs to get smaller overall, I don't like that either.

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Any size lost going from Diaw, Blair or Bonner to Jackson would be negligible in my book.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous Cowherd

Interesting stuff timvp. Do you see this as being something we might employ in practice, or is this more of a hypothetical thought experiment?

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I really think Pop will try it. When piecing together the rotation, it makes too much sense -- and solves too many question marks -- not to at least try it for a game or two.

Probably agree with this - no one is so cemented in that PF role for various reasons that it's not worth a look. Jax seemingly defends better with lesser lateral quickness where he can be physical and that means PF's vs the SF's of the league. However, first priority should be the Spurs lighting up the phones trying to trade.

I basically agree with all of your points. But the question that remains is, what are we going to do with our true PFs? We have three of them, and they are all sucking. No one wants them in a trade. We can't just release them. So do they just go to the bench and rot? Between Diaw, Bonner, and Blair, who would you give consistent minutes in a playoff rotation? I'm thinking Diaw.

I'm' not sure on the full time aspect but I definitely agree Jack should play some PF.

Aside of what is said in the OP is that Spurs bench unit is really slow footed on the perimeter. A Neal/Ginobili/Jack perimeter lineup will get destroyed by quickest lineup (cough.. Clippers...cough)

To me, Spurs best rotation would be:
Starters: Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Neal/Ginobili/Jackson/Splitter

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Originally Posted by timvp

Boris has been good for the last 1.25 games. The weeks before that ....... not so much.

His impact this season hasn't been very noteworthy.

Jackson would be a well above average playmaker at power forward.

Not sure how that fits into the argument. Besides, Diaw wasn't exactly clutch against the Thunder either. Jackson, though, was.

Any size lost going from Diaw, Blair or Bonner to Jackson would be negligible in my book.

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Fair points mostly, still Diaw-Sjax is quite a bit bigger than Sjax-Manu and we would lose a lot of playmaking regardless of Sjax passing abilities... You could also just switch SJax and Boris positions, I think that could work but I don't think we ever saw it despite Pop being in mad scientist mode for a while...

For the record I wanted to see how Sjax would do vs Blake Griffin at the beginning of the season, he has shown the best defense at PF, too bad we didn't see him vs more elite PF tho, especially the more physical type, like Zbo/Griffin, we know he can push the Dirk and Aldrigde around.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Stephen Jackson came into the league as a shooting guard. He has since transitioned to the small forward position. Is it time to slide him over another spot and make him a full-time power forward?

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Yes.

small ball jax or KL is already playin PF position

if going full time means less court time for turds, then so be it....

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm' not sure on the full time aspect but I definitely agree Jack should play some PF.

Aside of what is said in the OP is that Spurs bench unit is really slow footed on the perimeter. A Neal/Ginobili/Jack perimeter lineup will get destroyed by quickest lineup (cough.. Clippers...cough)

To me, Spurs best rotation would be:
Starters: Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Neal/Ginobili/Jackson/Splitter

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I just don't get always trying to over bolster your bench. If Diaw is worth anything, he should be motivated enough to carry a bench unit against 2nd/3rd stringers and dominate, especially when he has De Colo, Neal, Gino, Jackson on the floor with him possibly.

Nice write-up. Seems like it makes sense, though like Paranoid Pop said, Diaw has been looking better. I'm still liking the the 3 man rotation with Tim, Tiago, and Boris eating up a lot of the 5 & 4 minutes, but it doesn't address how to best use Jack. His minutes in the Pelicans game at PF were mostly with Diaw on the floor. It's obviously going to be a better fit next to Tim or Tiago. Hopefully Kawhi starts tonight and we'll see what rotation Pop will use. You make a persuasive argujment for moving Jack to the 4, and it seems he was at least our 3rd best big in the WCF's now that I think about it. Thanks for the ideas. This is why I think ST is a badass thang.....:toast

Anything to keep Bonner and Blair glued to the bench.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm' not sure on the full time aspect but I definitely agree Jack should play some PF.

Aside of what is said in the OP is that Spurs bench unit is really slow footed on the perimeter. A Neal/Ginobili/Jack perimeter lineup will get destroyed by quickest lineup (cough.. Clippers...cough)

To me, Spurs best rotation would be:
Starters: Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Neal/Ginobili/Jackson/Splitter

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Why is nobody questioning Green starting despites him scrubing at least as much as Boris except at a more stacked position?

I like your rotation other than that, I agree that Jack at PF doesn't work that well with the twin towers starting (unless you acknowledge that Boris might be better at SF like SJax is better at PF).

I'd go with something like :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Gelabale?/Jackson/Splitter

But Pop seems obsessed with the twin towers and it's growing on me since inside scoring is clearing where we have the edge over OKC :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Diaw/Jackson/One of the twin tower

Danny is a very good fit at starting SG. They need spacing (he provides), capable defense (he does that) and some rebounding (he's capable). You don't get any upgrade by taking him out and putting Manu in as far as a net benefit because of how impactful Manu is with the bench.

I wondered about this in the Think Tank a couple of days ago. It seems good, but I fear that it would encourage Pop to play Green at the three, which has really been bad for Danny recently. I don't like the prospect of anyone else besides Kawhi and maybe Manu playing as a small-forward. If the Spurs have a plan for filling Jack's minutes at the three that doesn't involve going smaller there, I'd be fine with the shift.

I still think the Spurs need another big, though, if they're not sold on Diaw. Jack may be able to get away with playing the four, but the Spurs can't expect to get by if they have to use a three-man rotation of him, Splitter and Duncan.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Danny is a very good fit at starting SG. They need spacing (he provides), capable defense (he does that) and some rebounding (he's capable). You don't get any upgrade by taking him out and putting Manu in as far as a net benefit because of how impactful Manu is with the bench.

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With the loss of Boris in the starting lineup we don't need a one dimensional player but another playmaker imo.

Also to go your way timvp, at about 7:30 in the 4th, SJax rejected Anderson and Davis back to back, great stuff. Other than that, that lineup (Tiago at C and Sjax at PF) didn't do very well tho.

I think you're right but I think they made a mistake with Boris, I believe they told Tiago to lose some weight, they should have done the same with Boris so that he would do even better at the 3 (and he has done well already), unfortunately Pop sees Boris as more of a big than Boris imo.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

With the loss of Boris in the starting lineup we don't need a one dimensional player but another playmaker imo.

Also to go your way timvp, at about 7:30 in the 4th, SJax rejected Anderson and Davis back to back, great stuff. Other than that, that lineup didn't do very well tho.

I think you're right but I think they made a mistake with Boris, I believe they told Tiago to lose some weight, they should have done the same with Boris so that he would do even better at the 3 (and he has done well already), unfortunately Pop sees Boris as more of a big than Boris imo.

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IMO, while spacing may be an issue in a Parker/Danny/Kawhi/Tiago/Tim line up, playmaking will not be. TP and Tim are both excellent play makers and passers. Tiago is a great passer for a big man and set's wonderful screens. Kawhi has improved ball handling and play making (although still needs work).

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

I think you're right but I think they made a mistake with Boris, I believe they told Tiago to lose some weight, they should have done the same with Boris so that he would do even better at the 3 (and he has done well already), unfortunately Pop sees Boris as more of a big than Boris imo.

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The Spurs did tell Boris to lose weight ... and he did. He's still pretty chubby but he's as skinny as he's been since he inked that big contract with the Suns. I'm sure the Spurs didn't instruct him to keep some baby fat on him, that's just some excess crepes, IMO.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

IMO, while spacing may be an issue in a Parker/Danny/Kawhi/Tiago/Tim line up, playmaking will not be. TP and Tim are both excellent play makers and passers. Tiago is a great passer for a big man and set's wonderful screens. Kawhi has improved ball handling and play making (although still needs work).

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I disagree but I'm not sure I'm rationnal anymore about Green so I will leave it at that.

Just get Neal out of the starting lineup. There are too many better players for Neal to get as many shots as he needs to take. If Jack moves to the four, I think Manu is the three, Neal is the two and De Colo is the point. I don't know how that would work out. If it can't, and the Spurs need to bring in another forward, then Neal's minutes may dry up.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Why is nobody questioning Green starting despites him scrubing at least as much as Boris except at a more stacked position?

I like your rotation other than that, I agree that Jack at PF doesn't work that well with the twin towers starting (unless you acknowledge that Boris might be better at SF like SJax is better at PF).

I'd go with something like :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Gelabale?/Jackson/Splitter

But Pop seems obsessed with the twin towers and it's growing on me since inside scoring is clearing where we have the edge over OKC :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Diaw/Jackson/One of the twin tower

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http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...0&goto=newpost

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I'm' not sure on the full time aspect but I definitely agree Jack should play some PF.

Aside of what is said in the OP is that Spurs bench unit is really slow footed on the perimeter. A Neal/Ginobili/Jack perimeter lineup will get destroyed by quickest lineup (cough.. Clippers...cough)

To me, Spurs best rotation would be:
Starters: Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Neal/Ginobili/Jackson/Splitter

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I agree; full time, I don't think he can do it. It's not the rebounding that's so much a concern (because Diaw is quite possibly the worst rebounding PF in the league) as it is the post defense. Had he been at his weight with the Bobcats (230-240) he might be able to pull it off, but at 210, I don't see it. Toughness only goes so far when you're giving up significant size and/or strength.

As far as your rotation, if you're going to insert De Colo, then why not just switch Green and Ginobili? De Colo (play making)/Neal (scoring) can replace Ginobili in tandem and Green could fit in seamlessly as a spot up shooter, while the starting lineup would get another play maker. By pairing Ginobili with De Colo, De Colo would obviously defer quite a bit and become a spot up shooter, which is not his game.

timvp, Jackson actually broke in as an SF with the Nets. It was with the Spurs that he was more of an SG, which lasted until he came back to them. But truly, he was always more SF than SG, so that was a seamless transition, just like going from SF to PF was for Horry, who despite being a sub par rebounder, was clearly more PF than SF for the vast majority of his career.

You're overstating how difficult it is to acquire a solid fourth big. They absolutely have the assets to acquire it. It may not be someone ideal and it may require parting with a 1st, but I don't buy for a second that they can't get it if they want it badly enough. Failing to do so or resorting to gimmicky ideas like the one you're proposing will have them eliminated in the 2nd round.

well hes taller then blair and not a pussy like bonner so yes

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I agree; full time, I don't think he can do it. It's not the rebounding that's so much a concern (because Diaw is quite possibly the worst rebounding PF in the league) as it is the post defense.

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Not his own rebounding but Tiago's rebounding may be the problem, he doesn't seem to rebound as well since his weight loss and he wasn't that great to begin with, so it's hard to see a pairing of Tiago with an undersized 4 being successful.

Tim-Sjax is good, Tim-Tiago is good, but Sjax playing PF might indeed not be the full solution, we may still need a backup center who can rebound.

PLaying Sjax PF would make him better at least, I think that much is clear.

I like that. Our PG, SG, and SF positions are logjammed, and with Timmy and Tiago handling the center spot, some help at PF would help. If Jax can continue to play tough and rebound I'd love him at PF. A better big than Blair at this point

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Originally Posted by TD 21

I agree; full time, I don't think he can do it. It's not the rebounding that's so much a concern (because Diaw is quite possibly the worst rebounding PF in the league) as it is the post defense. Had he been at his weight with the Bobcats (230-240) he might be able to pull it off, but at 210, I don't see it. Toughness only goes so far when you're giving up significant size and/or strength.

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If you believe Jackson weighs 210 pounds, I got a future Hall of Famer in DeJuan Blair to trade you.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

As far as your rotation, if you're going to insert De Colo, then why not just switch Green and Ginobili? De Colo (play making)/Neal (scoring) can replace Ginobili in tandem and Green could fit in seamlessly as a spot up shooter, while the starting lineup would get another play maker. By pairing Ginobili with De Colo, De Colo would obviously defer quite a bit and become a spot up shooter, which is not his game.

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Fine with me. And that's part of the flexibility moving Jackson to PF offers.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

You're overstating how difficult it is to acquire a solid fourth big. They absolutely have the assets to acquire it. It may not be someone ideal and it may require parting with a 1st, but I don't buy for a second that they can't get it if they want it badly enough. Failing to do so or resorting to gimmicky ideas like the one you're proposing will have them eliminated in the 2nd round.

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Names?

I don't like the idea of jax playing PF

he is not as athletic to be a small ball PF. If you want to play small you need to compliment it with quickness speed and power. He still is better then Bonner but still we will lose SF and he can't play both roles cause IMO he will not gonna be able to play 30+ minutes.

Dalembert doesn't get much playing time, could send Bonner who could backup Ilysova pretty and Danny Green.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Dalembert doesn't get much playing time, could send Bonner who could backup Ilysova pretty and Danny Green.

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Stop with this Green hate. Are you paranoid or what?

Who will be better on D on SG position? Neal?

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

Stop with this Green hate. Are you paranoid or what?

Who will be better on D on SG position? Neal?

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Manu, De Colo, Anderson was also better, Green never slowed down a SG in his life, he's only good at pressuring PGs when they handle the ball.

De Colo has several good blocks on SGs.

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Originally Posted by timvp

If you believe Jackson weighs 210 pounds, I got a future Hall of Famer in DeJuan Blair to trade you.

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Fair enough, I'm just telling you what he said. I'm skeptical too, but why would he have reason to lie? Presuming he is though and he's playing at his listed weight of 220 or slightly above that . . . that's still pushing it.

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Names?

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Who can say with absolute certainty that they can acquire (insert player) with what they have to offer? I'm jut saying, I'm confident they can acquire a serviceable fourth big if they want one enough.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

De Colo has several good blocks on SGs.

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You really wants to put a point guard rookie on the starting 5 and give him shooting guard duties?

Ohh my lord

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I just don't get always trying to over bolster your bench. If Diaw is worth anything, he should be motivated enough to carry a bench unit against 2nd/3rd stringers and dominate, especially when he has De Colo, Neal, Gino, Jackson on the floor with him possibly.

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Well, the Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan lineup was dominant last season in the 2 first round of the playoffs. I think Diaw is a better fit than Splitter to start with this group because he will bring some spasing and playmaking.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

As far as your rotation, if you're going to insert De Colo, then why not just switch Green and Ginobili?

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Because I don't think De Colo is good enough to be the only playmaker on the court. I rather have him on the court with Manu and having both sharing playmaking duties.

I don't know why people keep saying Green is playing badly as a shooting guard when he hasn't even played the position in about a month. For the small stretch he was one the court with Leonard he played great all around. It wouldn't shock me to see the Spurs go on a big winning streak soon.

Danny Green going HAM right now..

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Originally Posted by benstanfield

We need to shop for a SF, either in free agency or through trades, and make Jack the backup PF. He is a better big than Ginger, Whataburger, and at this point even Diaw. In a 7 game series, when opposing coaches realize they literally don't need to assign a defender to Diaw and can just clog up the lane, we become exploitable. Jack is definitely a better rebounder than the turd shitstains, definitely a better floor spacer than firecrotch in the playoffs, and is better equipped to guard the new Lebron, Melo, Durant, Griffin smallball forwards that are all the rage these days.

I just don't see another viable PF coming through the door, but an SF might be easier to find and Jack, I would argue, is the 2nd best PF on the roster.

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1 week ago.

At least gimme a footnote dad.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Well, the Parker/Green/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan lineup was dominant last season in the 2 first round of the playoffs. I think Diaw is a better fit than Splitter to start with this group because he will bring some spasing and playmaking.



Because I don't think De Colo is good enough to be the only playmaker on the court. I rather have him on the court with Manu and having both sharing playmaking duties.

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I don't disagree about the spacing and playmaking with Boris next to Tim at all, however Tiago (while not the level of Boris in passing, creativity) is still a very good passer and brings different things to the table (length, ability to score) and the upside of the Tim/Tiago line up going well vs. the Boris/Tim lineup seems to be much higher (as we saw in the OKC series, I'm not sure if Boris/Tim can get the Spurs to a final). Tiago/Tim at least has enough potential to try.

Very good argument here. I think it passes the eye test very well, and follows today's NBA trend well. So far in this Mavs game, Jack is looking like a faster (albeit shorter) Horry.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Because I don't think De Colo is good enough to be the only playmaker on the court. I rather have him on the court with Manu and having both sharing playmaking duties.

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I agree . . . but he wouldn't be in this case. Neal could assist him in that regard, even if most of Neal's play making is for himself. Besides, Ginobili would come out at the 5 minute mark (as opposed to entering then), then return sometime during Parker's rest to play some with the 2nd unit. In short stretches, I don't see why they couldn't get away with De Colo-Neal, when they get away with a lesser play making back court of Neal-Green during that same stretch as is.

Really, the rotation should be what you said, minus De Colo. They should just play nine and stop attempting to force a tenth in until (unless?) they acquire a serviceable fourth big.

Makes sense. I always put him @ pf on 2k tbh

I could see that working as long as Jack is protected against the few legit 4's left. No need to take a pounding ahead of the playoffs. I especially like the crunch time lineup of:
Duncan
Jack
Kawhi
Manu
Parker

Which closely mirrors the 2005 lineup of:
Duncan
Horry
Bowen
Manu
Parker

If the Spurs get to the finals, that lineup would be great matching up against Miami or NY. Not sure about OKC or the Clips though. And I don't see how it could work against Memphis.

Jax as a stretch 4 would be great. Not to mention he can take it inside.

Pop played him at the 4 against Dallas because they don't have size to counter and he does a good job on Dirk anyway.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I don't disagree about the spacing and playmaking with Boris next to Tim at all, however Tiago (while not the level of Boris in passing, creativity) is still a very good passer and brings different things to the table (length, ability to score) and the upside of the Tim/Tiago line up going well vs. the Boris/Tim lineup seems to be much higher (as we saw in the OKC series, I'm not sure if Boris/Tim can get the Spurs to a final). Tiago/Tim at least has enough potential to try.

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I have nothing against the Tim/Tiago frontcourt. I agree with you that it's the best one.

I'm fine with Tim and Tiago both starting as long as:
- At least one of them is always on the court. They are Spurs' only centers.
- They are both playing at the end of the game. Spurs crunch time lineup should be Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan.

It's a lot like the Tony/Manu situation. Pop has solved it by benching Manu. However, it also could be solved by tinkering the rotation like Pop is trying to do with Tim/Tiago.

In that regard what Pop is doing with Tiago to allow what you said is two thing. If he needs to, he's increased his overall minutes some. Then, while Tim/Tiago start, Tiago is usually subbed out fairly early in the first quarter. That allows Tim/Boris to play (or Tim/Jackson if he goes that route). Then Tiago checks in for Tim with about 3 minutes left in the quarter.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Stephen Jackson came into the league as a shooting guard. He has since transitioned to the small forward position. Is it time to slide him over another spot and make him a full-time power forward?

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Are you giving up on Splitts-Duncan?

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Originally Posted by Bruno

I have nothing against the Tim/Tiago frontcourt. I agree with you that it's the best one.

I'm fine with Tim and Tiago both starting as long as:
- At least one of them is always on the court. They are Spurs' only centers.
- They are both playing at the end of the game. Spurs crunch time lineup should be Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan.

It's a lot like the Tony/Manu situation. Pop has solved it by benching Manu. However, it also could be solved by tinkering the rotation like Pop is trying to do with Tim/Tiago.

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Agree with all you wrote except:
Spurs crunch time lineup should be Parker/Ginobili/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan.

After SJax ballsy playoff performance esp vs OKC, shouldn't crunch time lineup be more situational depending on whom they are playing and whom opponent has on the court and very possibly include SJax?
I know that would require the Hall of Fame coach to be up on and adjust to situations, and surely he can and will do that.

S-Jax should definitely spend some time at Power Forward as the Spurs' 4th big. But I think it would be a mistake to have him do it full-time. For the playoffs, Pop could theoretically roll out a 3-big rotation with the rest of the minutes dedicated to small ball -- which is where Jackson and or / Leonard can come into the picture.

That said, I don't think Jackson at PF is a gimmicky move at all. He's actually proven himself the most capable defender of Hybrid PF's in our team, a glaring weakness we used to deal with not too long ago. So when we got up against the Dirk Nowitzki's and LaMarcus Aldridge's of the world, he actually could function as a mobile 4, which would slide our rotation over in the manner timvp described.

As long as Bonner and Blair never see daylight during the playoffs, I'll be happy. Pop should use any of TD, TP, Manu, Leonard, Splitter, SJax, Diaw, Green and Neal in the playoffs. I'm not sold on De Colo in the playoffs yet (opponents pressuring the ball). And Mills only as a game changer if any of the shooters are cold. Timvp, what do you think of Pop using Diaw on Lebron and Melo most of the time - IOW, the big lineup of Tim, Tiago and Diaw. Miami seems to have abandoned the small ball philosophy as their defense has suffered the beginning of this season.

My biggest concern is Durant at power forward - Diaw is okay against Lebron/Melo. Against, LAL.MEM/LAC, use TD/Tiago more.

Great points.

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

Why is nobody questioning Green starting despites him scrubing at least as much as Boris except at a more stacked position?

I like your rotation other than that, I agree that Jack at PF doesn't work that well with the twin towers starting (unless you acknowledge that Boris might be better at SF like SJax is better at PF).

I'd go with something like :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Diaw/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Gelabale?/Jackson/Splitter

But Pop seems obsessed with the twin towers and it's growing on me since inside scoring is clearing where we have the edge over OKC :
Starters: Parker/Manu/Leonard/Splitter/Duncan
Bench: De Colo/Green/Diaw/Jackson/One of the twin tower

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You don't start Manu, ever. His minutes are limited, so any of them spent with Parker, not at crunch time, are a waste. He's your bench playmaker. Parker is your starting 5 playmaker. Your proposed bench would have a hard time scoring 20-25 points. No one can really create aggressively like Manu or Parker.

Has anyone else noticed a subtle effort by Paranoid Pop to make Danny Green the object of derision? I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I don't think he likes him much. :lol

I hate this idea personally. Pop's love of small ball is well documented, and we all know how that turned out. This team has a chance to be really good defensively this year. Last I checked, they were 7th in Defensive Efficiency, and that was without two of our best defenders in Kawhi and SJax for a majority of the season. Jackson's strength defensively is getting into people's heads and then using his veteran savvy to know how to use positioning and angles to best guard his guy efficiently. At this point, Jax is an average perimeter defender but when you pair 4 average defenders with an elite center like Tim Duncan, you all of a sudden become a top 3 defense - that's why he's so important to this team as a perimeter defender. What works for timvp's analysis is that the Spurs have used so many 5 man units this season that it's very hard to get concrete evidence to support either side because the sample size is so low. In fact, Stephen Jackson's top 3 worst 5 man defensive lineups all have him at the four, and the defensive numbers are horrendously bad (again, small sample size). To be honest, I think Jax should be starting on this team at the TWO, over Danny Green who's skills I think bring that bench unit something that it really lacks right now in a above-average perimeter defender who can knock down open 3's. I hate Jax coming off the bench for this team because he brings alot of great things, but he's asked to do too much with the second unit and doesn't have great handles to be a good playmaker at this point in his career - something easily masked in the starting lineup. Jax is a great tone-setter and I think that is totally negated by the fact he comes off the bench.

Haralabos Voulgaris, who is generally regarded as one of the most knowledgeable guys on this planet about the NBA and who is a NBA analytical genius and makes his living as an NBA sports bettor, said the biggest mistake NBA coaches/teams make is changing their lineups to match that of the other team. That's what playing Jackson at the four is all about. Not only that, we have a SF already on our team with a wingspan larger than Andrew Bynum's who many believed was going to play at the four on this team before he even started his career. He's our best smallball four by a mile.

I'm slightly of the mind that Jack could start at SF and Leonard could come in to effect a big advantage at backup PF or SF depending on the situation.

I'll see if I agree with myself when I sober up. Probably too dynamic to be practicable.

Why don't we just sign another PF and keep Jackson where hes at?

I heard Michael Finley was trying for a comeback.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I'm slightly of the mind that Jack could start at SF and Leonard could come in to effect a big advantage at backup PF or SF depending on the situation.

I'll see if I agree with myself when I sober up. Probably too dynamic to be practicable.

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I like that line of thinking actually. There's no perfect rotation with our current bigs, and especially with Splitter starting. It makes for a lot of headaches, Splitter doesn't rebound quite well enough to be a good pairing with Boris and Sjax. KY is a better rebounder than both, downside is that Imo he isn't strong enough and could be worked in the post by a lot of PF.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Has anyone else noticed a subtle effort by Paranoid Pop to make Danny Green the object of derision? I can't exactly put my finger on it, but I don't think he likes him much. :lol

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Have noted it though wouldn't call it subtle and have attempted to counter it a bit but illogical hatred for unknown reasons is unconquerable.

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Originally Posted by Gagnrath

Have noted it though wouldn't call it subtle and have attempted to counter it a bit but illogical hatred for unknown reasons is unconquerable.

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What I don't like about Danny is that he starts, other than that I think he's a pretty likable guy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gagnrath

Have noted it though wouldn't call it subtle and have attempted to counter it a bit but illogical hatred for unknown reasons is unconquerable.

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The "subtle" part was a joke. Hes downright outspoken and boisterous about his opinion on the matter.

Makes sense against the majority of lineups in the league. It's definitely a playoff lineup when the rotation shortens up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop

What I don't like about Danny is that he starts, other than that I think he's a pretty likable guy.

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So who should be the starter then smart guy?

-It's become readily apparent Neal would be overwhelmed by size in the playoffs against big lineups.

-Manu starting means less touches for Parker, and a loss of productivity from him. Do you really want to mess with Parker's head when he's posting even better across the board numbers than he did last season? Not to mention our bench takes a big hit then..

-Stephen Jackson is washed up and cannot hang/play small forward anymore against backup small forwards. So you'd have him going head to head against starters? Lmao..

-Patty Mills / Nando De Colo ... please...


Late edit: Oh wait.. of course why didn't I think of it. James Anderson should start.

:lmao

The only problem I have about DG starting is we need to be committed to it even when he is drawing blanks in the playoffs. It will be too late to make a change then and will cause more damage to try to make a change then.

Danny in the starting lineup is fine. He needs to play with Tony. Manu needs to be on the 2nd unit. You can't put the bench in the hands of rookie De Colo.