Where does Kawhi rank? I also like his post defense as well, this year he's looking very good on D, better than last year especially at playing the passing lanes. In a few years he should definitely be an elite defender.
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Where does Kawhi rank? I also like his post defense as well, this year he's looking very good on D, better than last year especially at playing the passing lanes. In a few years he should definitely be an elite defender.
Top 5...
1. Lebron
2. Iggy
3.Thabo
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Tony Allen
Isn't Rondo up there as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by cd021
Rondo, Shumpert, Matthews, Bledsoe, Batum, Harden, Wallace, P George, all solid defenders as well.
^Batum is a poor defender. Harden isn't a good defender. Rondo has come back to earth recently.
Kawhi was average last year. This season, it's too early to tell. Way too soon to put him even in the top 20 but I like what I see so far coming back from injury. We'll know more in another couple weeks; games against the Hornets, Mavericks and Raptors (all have really weak SFs) won't tell us much of anything.
^ Yeah, the hardest wings to guard were Danny's assignments for those games, and he did a good job shutting them down. On Friday, I think Leonard will get some minutes on Harden, as Green wasn't able to contain him much last time Harden played the Spurs. Throughout the season, I expect to see Leonard get time on big shooting guards and good small-forwards while Green guards smaller twos and ones when Parker needs a break. One thing you can say about Leonard is that he's taken advantage of the easier assignments. He's pretty much erased the players he's been guarding, and he's used the lighter one-on-one workload to play the passing lanes. I hope Green does the same thing when Leonard gets the tougher assignment.
Yeah it's probably too early to tell if Kawhi is a Top 5 perimeter defender, but he's looked awesome ever since he's come back from being hurt. I'll say one thing, he sure can read the passing lanes very well...:tu
Not mine at least, I feel pretty confident in my list thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Libri
Decent list cd, but no way Leonard is a better defender than Tony Allen. Not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by cd021
I would add to the list Moute, Kirilenko, Gerald Wallace and Luol Deng. All elite perimeter defenders.
You're probably right, I actually forgot about AK,Crash and Deng, i've never actually wate Moute in action so i'd take your word for itQuote:
Originally Posted by elemento
Avery Bradley should be on the list when he will be back. I also like Conley tbh
LeBron is not consistently the best perimeter defender, but he is very good. Tony Allen, Shumpert, Avery Bradley, Deng, Iggy and Sefolosha.
Add Marion to the list.
I remember a certain George Hill being an excellent perimeter defender
I like Marion alot but I think he would be like 8 on a top 10Quote:
Originally Posted by Jodelo
Not in top 10, in my opinion, but still good.
:lmao:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by cd021
Shumpert seems a little overrated in my opinion my seemed slightly above average, and when Woodson took over, he got pegged as their stopper. James, when focused, is easily the best in my book, capable of shutting down D Rose ( or at least making life difficult) to Pau, fronting him and denying entry into the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Killakobe81
Kawhi can still improve on man D but his biggest impact is help defense.
:lol Kawhi isn't even a top 10 perimeter defender, tbh..
In no particular order(excluding PGs): Iguodala, Deng, George, Allen, Lebron, Mbah a Moute, Kirilenko, Brewer, Sefolosha, Kidd would be my top 10, off the top..
Hardens D is underratedQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Kawhi has the potential to be top 5 some day, but to say he already is at that level is delusional. His perimeter defense last season wasn't anything special at all. Arguably he's not even the best perimeter defender on the Spurs.
I actually think Leonard is an overrated defender, at least by what's being said in this thread.
It's definitely to early to place him in the top 5 of any defenders list.
Way too early to place Kawhi Leonard in the top 5 of league-wide defenders. But he has been very good with personal defense, and amazing at playing the passing lanes.
If Kawhi was a top 5 defender right now then I would like our chances a lot more. He's still got a long way to go to get to the top 5.
He's still got a lot of improvement and work to do this season to get there. Hopefully, he improves a lot this season and becomes a top 10 defender heading into the playoffs.
Tony Allen is a nightmare.
Tony Allen
Avery Bradley
Battier
Iguodala
Leonard
(LeBroom is now a PF so he is not a perimeter defender. And Kobe sucks ass.)
Lebron plays no d till the last 5 mins of the game same as Durant Kobe and most other perimeter scorers which is a kick in the guts to guys like Bowen sefolosha and tony Allen who bust their ass on d every minute they're on the floor
I still think Kawhi isn't even in the top 10. He really needs to keep working on it.
He barely made an impact in the game against Houston.
James, Sefolosha, Iguodala, Allen, and Wade (when he's giving full effort) are probably the top 5 perimeter defenders. I think Shumpert is overrated
Bump.
I think it's safe to say he's top 5 now, he's levels ahead of where he was defensively at the beginning of the season, such a major improvement in a few months. His defense on guys like Thompson/LBJ was incredible, his rebounding these playoffs has also been elite. If you actually paid attention to his rebounds you'd see a lot of them he grabbed were in traffic amongst bigs, he's not stat padding grabbing wide open rebounds, these are legit.
During the end of game 7 he grabbed that one defensive rebound when he was surrounded against LeBron, Wade, and Battier. No other Spurs even helped boxing out. I was like "wtf how did he manage to pull that down".Quote:
Originally Posted by KL2
Any list without Avery Bradley I can't even take seriously.
1. Lebron James
2. Tony Allen
3. Paul George
4. Andre Iguodala
5. Kawhi Leonard(if the playoffs are indication of growth)
6. Luol Deng
7. Thabo Sefolosha
8. Al-Farouq Aminu
9. Avery Bradley
10. Danny Green
Luol Deng should probably push him out of the top 5. The problem with rating him as highly as he is in this list is mostly based on how well he did against LBJ in the first 4 games. LBJ didn't have much playing time against him until this series and spent some time feeling him out. Putting up 32 and 37 in the last two games doesn't really suggest Leonard was playing that great once James had felt him out. I'd like to see some statistics from the last two games though.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Also +1 to Wade being in the top 5. When he's healthy he's definitely one of the better ones out there. Will he ever be healthy again though?
give lebron 7 games against anybody and he'll "figure him out"Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefourdc
Leonard wasn't an elite defender during the regular season, far from it, but he was completely dominant defensively in the playoffs, not just against Lebron, tbh..the Spurs defense was significantly worse all playoffs when Duncan and Leonard sat, tbh..their defensive metrics were substantially better than any other Spurs, the 3rd ranked regular season and playoffs defense..
He also completely eliminated Klay Thompson when Pop made the switch, rendering Thompson completely useless, tbh..
Also, individual defense is overrated, anyways..team defense is far more important in the NBA, tbh..guys like Avery Bradley and Mbah a Moute are elite from an individual perspective, but average on team defense, tbh..
When healthy, sure, but Wade's defense was pretty shitty during the playoffs..Zach Lowe pointed out all his blunders against Danny Green in the Finals, too..I don't think his body will allow him to make a consistent impact on either side of the ball anymore..Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefourdc
Leonard wasn't even THAT bad against LeBron in game 7. Pop told him to let him shoot jumpers, he did and LeBron just made them
So what you are telling me is that he's not good enough to even make a cursory effort to challenge his jumpers and still defend him? How is that in any way, shape, or form good defense?Quote:
Originally Posted by chapnis
He is certainly good enough, I just believe that Pop told him not to and he listened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefourdc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefourdc
He had to give him a big cushion, what'd you rather have LBJ doing, driving/posting or shooting jumpers?
Plus just how many of those players on that list shut players down? Remember Allen was the guy Manu was dropping 20 PPG on with a broken elbow in the playoffs, that guy's an elite defender? Parker also tore both Allen/Conley a new asshole these playoffs even though he was really banged up and fatigued.
You're giving a lot of these guys way too much credit, good defenders yes but a lot of them are mad overrated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seefourdc
Also PERFECT example of what I was talking about:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SXemx5E9t20
Leonard going for a career high, Deng couldn't guard him so they tried Butler, even Gibson, nobody could guard him though.
Meanwhile on the defensive end:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TrZ-toJk4OY
Leonard- 11-18 26 pts
Deng- 4-13