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Is this a coincidence? I think not. Three of those games were basically blowouts.
Some might decry the lack of "competition", but the reality is that, offensively, we don't need Neal, and he is a defensive liability. He shouldn't see that many minutes when he returns, IMHO.
We've won our games by an average score of 115.5-93.25. Owning the opposition on both ends of the court! :toast
I'd trade him and Blair but what decent, young player makes around 2 million a year and is on the trading block?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Robert Ley
Kinda, we have had some easy matchups lately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Robert Ley
ThisQuote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
To be fair, the Spurs needed that after a very difficult start to the season. Two sets of FOGAFINIs, and a lot of games on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
I'm not surprised the Spurs have been blowing out opponents with Leonard, Duncan, and Splitter as the starting frontcourt.
The Spurs really haven't gotten good backup PG play since he's been out, tbh.
lol at neal haters
no one is acting like he is some 3rd option
hes a bench player who was playing out of position since the teams entire small forward rotation was missing
hes instant offense who can actually pass and is good for 10-15 minutes a game
unless manu goes to the starting lineup then we have no real backup PG and neal is the best of the 3 in that situation
de colo and manu together doesnt look good unless de colo is the ball handler
And they didn't get any good backup pg play when he was healthy, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Should trade him, but Blair and Neal for who?
They could try Patrick Patterson or Greg Smith, then if they wanted they could take the time to pull up Wilkerson from the Toros.
But neither of those dudes are on the trading block as far as I know, but I'd much rather have one of them than Blair, Neal would be the to make the trade look a lot better. Then again, I'm not sure the Rockets would trade them to us.
Neal + Blair would also work for Larry Sanders as some others may have pointed out, but again, he isn't on the trading block.
This is all just wishful thinking, though.
Well I guess the op's point is we don't really need him. We have enough firepower. Giving that the only thing Neal could possibly add then is bad defense.
You have to be fucking retarded to not appreciate what Gary Neal brings to this team... Jesus...
THen again he is not a good backup PG either though TimVP so.......... Damn we need a backup PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
How many games Leonard has played since his comeback ?
Also , Manu bas been playing better lately
So, attributing those stats to Neal's injury is kinda retarded TBH
I love how shit goes from Neal With It the past two years to him being shit now. ST is so bipolar tbh.
The nigga has balls of steel. Noone on the team is anywhere the shooter he is. Noone outside of the Big 3 can create their own shot the way he can. And he makes under $1 mill this season. Now why in the world would any of you retards wanna get rid of him ?
when TP shits the bed against Thabo again while Manu goes ghost leaving no one to create our offense, we'll be singing a different tune.
Neal wit it.
Neal is a shooter. And needs to play like one. Don't expect him as a playmaker or even a dribbler. And let it flow...
yes it is.
neal is no more than an upgraded version of roger mason imho. solid role player but never expect him to make a centerpiece of your future plan. i don't think spurs are trading him away anytime soon and you can hardly find any decent replacement for that price. blair might probably get traded though since he's not given enough minutes in SA. you can't leave him on the reserve squad all time like it's MLB, play him or lose him tbh
LOL! You dont think Pop noticed that Gary was one of the few that manned up against the Grizz,that lost series right there probably guaranteed Gary a job for life as a Spur as long as he's healthy and wants to be here.
That's the million dollar question though...and Gary being an older rookie,this next contract is pretty much his ONLY shot at a big payday,will the Spurs be that team????
I have my doubts
Well, a couple of games against a crappy Mavs team and the track-star Rockets will do that. I think you're reading into this what you want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Robert Ley
Another game without Neal, another offensive showcase and another blowout victory.
Honestly, we have seen a real backup pointguard since Baron faggot Davis ended TJ Ford's career.
Yes, Gary Neal being out is the reason everyone is suddenly hitting 3s.
We actually have a real backup point guard now that he's not out chucking up threes and ruining the offense, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
That's too much hate, but i agree, Neal shouldn't play unless Manu/Green are cold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Robert Ley
Its not like DeColo or Mills has played that well in Gary's absence - What has actually happen is that Pop has put the ball in Manu's hands when TP is on bench (one of the reasons DeColo hasn't been so effective) - IF Pop will follow that recipe when Gary returns we will have very good results offensively - then we will have to see how Neal does trying to guard opposing PGs especially the small quick guys - right now there is no complete answer
Neal - great shooter, good ability to create for self and sometimes create for others in PNR game, while better defensively still struggles and probably more so when trying to guard PGs
DeColo - great passer, good ability to create for others especially in PNR, streaky shooter has probably shot better than expected but still not great, below average defender though has probably played better than expected in that area as well.
Mills - great shooter, not good as a creator/facilitator, probably best defender of the bunch (grading on guarding Pgs) though not great, usually enters game with alot of hustle and energy although doesn't always equal good results
At the end of the day, outside a perfect trade scenario - Neal being TP's primary backup with Manu running point is probably best option for Pop, while occasionally using other two guys if Neal's defense is negating his offensive production.
Spurs have a true problem at defending PG when Parker isn't on the court:
- When Parker is on the court, the opposite PG is scoring 18.1 points per 48 minutes.
- When Parker isn't on the court, the opposite PG is scoring 26.3 points per 48 minutes.
I see two possible answers to solve that:
- Pop could pick his backup PG depending on matchups. Against quick small PGs, Mills would be the backup PG. Against bigger and slower backup PGs, Neal or De Colo would be the backup.
- Pop could give the backup PG slot to Joseph. That's a gusty move because Joseph is raw and has shown very litle but his defensive ceiling is way higher than Neal, De Colo or Mills.
I wouldn't mind letting Joseph have some rotation minutes from time to time. But theres already a minutes crunch as it is...and sitting in Austin, CJ gets a lot of burn. Not sure what would be best for him long term.
Yes, he sure as hell is not a backup PG by any means, good post because this is exactly what he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by PingPong
If Neal is the primary backup option the team is in trouble. He can't dribble well nor create or penetrate, he is a spot up shooter basically and thats what he is. He is a slightly better RMJ as someone said. I would just stick to letting him be a volume shooter, thats his game. I still don't get at all where anyone thinks this guy is any kind of PG or can run the PG.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonNOKC
you guys can say anything you want about neal. bring up any metric. tell me about how he plays hero ball. tell me about how his defense can be weak.
dude. hits. big. shots.
/thread
Good point. Despite not being a good offensive player Jacque Vaughn was able to play great defense, knock down the open shot, and move the ball. That's all you really need from a backup PG. Hold the ship steady till the starter gets back in. CoJo probably is the closest thing to Vaughn at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Neal could be solved by actually playing the young kids more
just because jack is on this team doesnt mean he has to play
hes not that good of a reg season player and hes old and slow
he should be playing 10-15 minutes like mcdyess did
green or leonard are both workhorses who should be able to play around 36 minutes a game
play leonard/green with the bench more
Neal guards SG
Manu guards SF
leonard/green guard backup PG
not that hard
I think everyone agrees Neal is not a PG and outside of better ball handling neither is Mills - if Pop goes with either guy as Tony's primary backup then PG duties need to be handled by Manu as stated in my original post. In certain matchups Neal can create for himself but agree rarely creates for teammates. In games where TP is out and Neal has alot of PG duties he has come through with decent assist number (2 occasions posting 7 and one game with 8) unfortunately in those 3 games he also had 18 TOs - clearly he is at his best off the ball, but many under rate his ability to score off the dribble especially in certain matchupsQuote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cagney
Letting CoJo get more time at PG is something I wouldn't mind seeing, but the time to do that is now - the only part of his game we know is NBA ready is defense - but if he showed enough to warrant serious consideration then it may allow Spurs to be more aggressive in trade talks especially those regarding NealQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
:cry :cry But Tony isn't a true PG. :cry :cryQuote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
Was at the game last night and Rockets game too. de Colo painful to watch. Passing up shots, uncertainty, turnovers. Victories have come against some mediocre teams.
Pop will first give a shot at Neal to be the backup PG. Even if he was quite a disaster last season at that spot, he hasn't really had a shot this year to show what he could do at PG because of injuries. Neal is a good player and he deserves a legit opportunity to get the backup PG spot. If Neal fails, I think it will be time to give Joseph a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonNOKC
Aside of the backup PG situation, another factor that could decide whether or not Spurs should trade Neal is the Ginobili situation. With Manu being injured a lot and thinking at retirement, Neal was a damn fine insurance to have. However, Manu has been healthy lately and is playing better and better so he might be more and more tempted not to retire next summer. Before the trade deadline, RC and Pop should have a talk with Manu about what he think he will do next summer because it's a big factor on whether or not Spurs should trade Neal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DapDaGenius
Patterson for Neal and Blair, the Rockets could use a Harden Lite for when Harden is on the bench and they have plenty of PF's.
If we trade Neal, he will torch us from some other team, probably the Thunder.
Neal is not PG material. He cannot handle any pressure at the half court without turning the ball over. He doesn't have the handles for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
3rd solution :Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Start Manu and have Green off the bench to defend the backup PG while De Colo defends the SG.
Well if anything we need insurance in the frontcourt, we already have a Manu-lite anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Neal got badly exposed last year as a PG both defensively and offensively.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Saying that:
- Neal has reportedly worked on his PG skills last summer and he is also a little thinner.
- Neal has played very little PG this year.
- Mills and De Colo haven't been so-so this year.
- If Neal doesn't get the backup PG minutes, he will collect DNP-CD.
- Neal is a good player that has helped a lot Spurs.
Because of all that, Neal deserves a shot at the backup PG slot. I personally think it won't work but it's worth a try. If after 5-10 games, it's clear that he still can't be an effective backup PG, it will be time to look at other options.
If Manu retires, Spurs will have some cap space next summer. In a cap space scenario, Neal has the big edge of costing very little space to re-sign because of a low cap hold. Spurs should be fine at guards spots with Parker, Green, Neal, De Colo, Joseph and they will have a lot of capspace to go after a quality bigman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I agree with everything but the "deserves" part. It's a business, there's no reason to go by "deserves" when the guy is making a couple million a year. He cannot run the point, he's a huge liability there. I'd take Nando at the point before taking Neal, as Neal will shoot the ball given the look and I don't want him altering that mode by looking to get others involved.
I can see that happening. I can see him playing really good for his next team against us one game, then the next game we completely shut him down.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
team ppg....looks more impressive then the suns run n gun 05-07....
Now we give up 110 points to the BUCKS:lol
we still got over 115Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunodf
Neal comes back and our defense goes into the shitter against a scrub team. 110 points is absolutely PATHETIC. Last game against our RIVALS we only gave up 73 points...
Brandon Jennings goes off for 31 points. Nice job Neal and Parker.
Hes alot more than a spot-up shooter. He knows how to get his shot off. It may not be by elevating over or blowing by a defender or even by a crossover but the dude gets his shots up and puts up points. He isnt RMJ or even Green who are both awkward one-on-one players. Neals ability to do that offensively is pretty valuable, especially as a bench player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cagney
Defense is a different story.
more than 115.5 and another win. Yes it was coincidence.
The defense blew because the Spurs gave up a lot of offensive rebounds and the lead was still double digits until Pop subbed in the bench warmers.
Bump.
Neal: 3-11 FG, 1-5 3PT, 1 Ast, 2 TOs, -17 +/- (worst on the team).
LOL at him being a point guard with a 1-2 AST/TO margin. :lol
riding a 7 games winning streak
clown comes back with the combo breaker
Despite working on his PG skills, Neal still is no legit point guard. That's quite evident. It's a failed experiment already. He's a shoot first tweener guard. Not a point guard in this system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
I'd rather have De Colo (preferably) or Mills get baptized in fire and learn how to handle the rock, living with the mistakes they make and all.
Neal has a 1.35 AST/TO margin on the season, which is laughable for a "point guard." In comparison, even Tony has a 3.42 AST/TO margin and Manu (who isn't even a damn point guard) has a 2.09 margin.
I hate to say I told you so ... but I told you so...
This thread deserves a bump.
Looks like the Gary Neal train is becoming rather sparsely populated these days. Better late than never, I suppose.
Indeed.
Dude looked okay hero balling it up tonight at shooting guard. That is where he should stay. Let the Grand Wizard play PG, tbh.
You have got to be kidding me... Neal + Blair for....Sanders?Quote:
Originally Posted by DapDaGenius
Hahaha, no way are the Bucks pulling the trigger on that.
People are describing Sanders as a possible replacement for Bogut. He is a double-double machine, has incredible length, and leads the league in BPG at 3.3
He is an absolute monster on the defensive end with incredible length, to go with a quickly developing offensive game.
To top it all off, he plays just 24 MPG. If he can stay out of foul trouble and play a full 36 MPG, you are looking at 13/13/5/2 (Points/Boards/Blocks/Steals) at just 24 years old. His stock is skyrocketing. With far more time to improve, the estimates on his numbers are fairly conservative.
The Bucks already have an abundance of shooters with Jennings, Ellis and Dunleavy thus negating the use for Neal.
They also have a giant logjam at the forward position with Gooden, Henson, Udoh, Mbah a Moute and Ilyasova, thus negating the use for an extremely undersized forward in Blair.
I just don't see any reason as to why the Bucks would even consider.
First off, I wasn't the one who originally mentioned a Sanders trade in the first place. Second, I was only confirming that the a Sanders for Blair + Neal trade would work(through the trade machine). Third I'm fully aware that a Sanders for Blair and Neal trade is damn near impossible..."he(Sanders) isn't on the trading block" and "This is all just wishful thinking, though(Meaning, no way we are getting him)" I said the trade was possible(again, referring to the trade machine). Like I said, he isn't on the trading block, so they have no reason to get rid of him(At least not for players who would just be useless scraps on that team like Blair and Neal) seeing how well he is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Werdsniper2
Good coverage on Sanders, though.
My mistake, Dap, I didn't realize you were speaking on behalf of the trade machine.
Yea...that trade machine can certainly calculate numbers. It most certainly, however, cannot calculate reality.
Our favorite hero is now down to 42.2% from the field on the season. Fucking pathetic, tbh.
Make that 41.8% after another pathetic scrub performance by our favorite hero.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Robert Ley
the evolution of roger mason v2