http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...w-twin-towers/
Let's hope Pop continues to have faith in Splitter and his playing with TD grows as the season goes along.
Here's the article from Spurs Nation today.
Enjoy,
MarHill
Printable View
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursna...w-twin-towers/
Let's hope Pop continues to have faith in Splitter and his playing with TD grows as the season goes along.
Here's the article from Spurs Nation today.
Enjoy,
MarHill
Thanks
Welcome! :toast
It only took Gregg Popovich two-plus seasons, but it appears as if he’s finally overcome his aversion to deploying Tim Duncan and Tiago Splitter side-by-side.
The two bigs have gone from never playing together, to rarely playing together, to starting the past nine games next to one another.
Little more than a third of the way into the season, Duncan and Splitter have already shared more minutes on the court this year (222) than the past two combined (159). Indeed, in Splitter’s rookie campaign the two played in a paltry eight games together.
The VINDICATION Pop thread is misplaced...this is why Pop needs vindication ....for fuckin up the past two seasons title hopes.
Like I said before;
Can the Spurs win a title IN SPITE OF POP?
So far....umm no.
Genius coach, 4 rings, blah-blah....who would you get to replace him blah-blah....
most overrated coach imo....
We had title hopes IF Splitter was on the floor?
imo he was in no way ready for the Grizz. And we are not beating the Thunder.
in fact I think his playing time along side Duncan is due to Tim's mobility and his outside shooting. Tiago can thank Tim for his time warp.
Still can't believe reporters make a living by copying stuff from these forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
No, there is always hope of a title - every year. Maximizing your chances is a simple basic thing. Any poster here and any spurs fan (except for Popsuckers) could see that Bonner/Blair should have NEVER,NEVER,NEVER,EVER be placed ahead of anyone else on the roster. Except for the genius coach everyone else could see the obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
.
Never getting playing time might have something to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Boy, you sound like a spolied Spurs fan. Pop just like any other coach deserves criticism when warranted. We're human and nobody gets it right all of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
If it was so easy to roll the ball out and coach superstar players, then Mike Brown would still have a job. Avery Johnson would still have a job. Doug Collins would still have been of the Chicago Bulls instead of Phil Jackson. Del Harris would still have been coach of the Lakers before Phil Jackson.
But of course, we fans are so emotional and are quick to want a coach fired even a successful one like Pop. It never ceases to amazes me that common sense and perspective is lacking from fans.
Pop doesn't deserve to be treated like a saint by a lot of Spurs fans. However, he doesn't deserve to be treated like a coach who doesn't know what he's doing either.
The point rather it's now or 2 years late....he has adjusted to using Splitter with Duncan. And to say Splitter was ready before then is premature. Splitter was injured and he didn't react well to the physicality of the NBA in the beginning. And like most good players he has improved and made Pop comfortable into making that decision. The stupid thing to do from a coaching perspective is continued to be stubborn (which Pop has been accused of) and play Blair in the starting lineup. Well, like any good coach he adjusted and it may pay off in the long run.
Amazing! :bang
Also, silverblk mystix.....Pop even said when Splitter came from Europe that would not be the next David Robinson or the Spurs savior to pair with TD. Of course and some of the media overlooked that and thought he would be the missing piece to ring #5.
Again, nobody is being a popsucker....but his critics can be just as a bad as those who has loved everything he has done. He is still a very good coach that has a created a successful winning culture and for the most part didn't screw up from having Duncan and not winning any titles at all. Also has a created stable environment in a pro sports culture that doesn't believe in stability. Evidence of the seven NFL coaches fired yesterday and the team the Spurs played last night that fired their coach on Xmas. Also, that team out west firing their coach after 5 games into season.
But when you are a spolied fan...having perspective is impossible.
tbh Splitter making free throws may have something to do with that. Him not getting injured may too.
That was a really unproductive thing to say of a player who had NEVER played in the NBA. Really genius to shortchange a player before he has even had a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarHill
I wasn't expecting another DR but it wasn't too difficult to see that he had potential to be a rotation player and it didn't take a genius to realize that any player with potential can reach that potential with PLAYING TIME!
Splitter didnt play all season til game 4
reporters were asking if pop planned on playing splitter since he was 7 feet tall
you could tell popovich was annoyed but he finally gave in and splitter had a double double
if he was ever given consistent minutes and some respect he could have been doing what hes doing now 2 years ago
Tiago couldn't make free throws to save his life either. That was one of the biggest flaw of his game and why he was a liability last year against the Thunder. And lol at people thinking we even had a hope in 2011 against the Mavs, the two time defending champion Lakers or the Thunder even if we had gone passed the Grizz.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarHill
TD's late career shooting improvement from the midrange allows him to play with the range challenged Splitter more nowadays, right ?
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DesertSpur50
Pop preaches aw-shucks, "get over yourself" selflessness, but he certainly didn't practice what he preaches with regards to keeping Splitter locked up until now. Splitter should have been thrown into the mix from jump street, and I believe Pop's ego is the culprit.
Ignoring Splitter was not a basketball decision.
Exactly. There's no need to defend Pop over this. There's nothing much different now then back then. Sure Tiago's gotten better at free throws and adjusted to the game but that would have happened much sooner if he had been playing sooner. Pop wasted two years of his prime for no reason. Blair never developed a jump shot and had no problem starting with Tim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
All Splitter needs from now is getting some midrange jumpshots hability. With Splitter and Timmy shooting almost from anywhere, the twin towers will be a real treat.
shoots enough midrange shots here
coaching staff probably doesnt want him doing it though
if someone shoots 70% from the free throw line they could probably hit 40% from midrange
Not being ready had more to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunodf
We were not beating Memphis with Splitter.
And this combination we currently employ is far from set.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
Pop is one of the best in the business. He has a great system, he's a first ballot hall of fame coach, he has won championships, and he has been instrumental in making basketball an international affair by scouting guys like Manu and stashing European players before most teams were doing it. I'm not even being sarcastic. Pop is an amazing coach and a great person to have in the FO.
That said, Pop made a mistake with Splitter. It's not a crime to admit that imo. He doesn't need defending because his overall resume speaks for itself quite frankly.
Although I was on board with starting TD/Splitter 2 years ago, even I have to say that I wasn't expecting this frontcourt to be *this* good. I think that once they work something out with Splitter's touches, this is the frontcourt that has enough upside to give SA a puncher's chance against teams like OKC or Memphis short of a trade. Hopefully Pop stays the course.
is this the same clown that didnt play ghill in the playoffs rookie season when he showed h2h matches he held his own in the regular season against the top players he was asign to defend...we all know what happen the following year when pop decided to play him in the playoffs
the same clown who didnt play rookie splitter in the playoffs, then the following year he plays him we advance to next round...
overrated hell yeh
Pop is overrated? You can't be serious...Quote:
Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY
Truth is that Splitter didn't show any of the confidence he now shows. While we saw glimpses of potential, we all saw that with the good came the bad, the hookshot from the hip, allowing himself to be boxed out by swingmen, and unsteady post play like he didn't know what to do when he was on the court. Tiago's situation gives us polarizing opinions because Pop's handling of him had been more doghouse time than court time. We all though that because he is almost 7 feet tall with long arms and when combined with TD, he should give the Spurs a formidable frontline. But when he was in there, we all saw how unsteady he played. We all saw Pop put out Blair and Bonner contingency plan and roll the dice on O winning the day. We all hoped that that plan would hide a small frontline. We all knew that Blair is too small and possibly less athletic and that playoff Bonner play like the 3point line isn't as make-able then.
This year, even early on Tiago showed us glimpses of good play but there were still some signs of backsliding. But more good than bad definitely. It wasn't until the Boston game where he took a hard shot to the chest...That's when it all clicked for Splitter. From then on, he's been everything we have hoped for, all of us, both the Spurs organization and us Spurs fans. Is it Pop's fault or did it take that kind of treatment for Tiago? Is this not a contract year for Splitter as well?
Anyways, we all can't change a damn thing about the past. All we can do is hope that Splitter's play is all that we hoped for and that the end result is a 5th title.
Even great ones can make monumental errors. Trying to make a 6/5 player with no ACLs and limited bball IQ into a starting NBA big, when you've got a capable 7-footer on the roster...like I said, it was not a basketball decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic
I understand how fans can swept up in Blair's Cinderella story and make some hasty and grandiose conclusions from the spare handful of "beast" games that Blair produced. But for an NBA coaching staff to make such an error, it's a bit shocking.
Sometimes success can lead to failure when folks aren't called on their BS, maybe that's what happened in this case.
Perfectly said.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
Absolutely.
Pop's success (or any successful coach, manager, leader,etc) is also a detriment at times.
If Pop was a nobody - he would have thrown his biggest most formidable players on the court and just hoped that playing time would help those players develop quickly.
Pop has been so successful that he didn't feel that he "needed" Splitter and even downplayed Splitters' game in the media and tried to knock down Splitter and tried to knock down people's high expectations. His arrogance and success made him feel that his "system" was more important that good players. Apparently he didn't realize that having talent was the main reason for his success. So Pop trudges out Bonner and Blair and gives those two a LOOOOOT of playing time and a LOOOOT of opportunities to make mistakes and develop.
Splitter is not given the same opportunities for two years. Two fuckin years!
For those saying that the Spurs wouldn't have beaten this team or that team....how the hell do you know? How do you know that Splitter and Timmy wouldn't have developed a winning chemistry?
For those who say Splitter wasn't developed....no shit.
Playing time is what has helped him recently.
Pop was and is a big reason for the Spurs success. Pop is also a very big reason for the Spurs failures and playoff flameouts. Can't have it both ways.
Spurs win = Great Coach!
Spurs lose/get eliminated = Coach has to be held responsible.
Pop is a great coach but he had no idea how to coach and develop big men. You had to sign a coach to get your team to hit free throws I think they need to spend the money on a coach who can help young big men.
Free throws are 50% mental / 50% good mechanics. Shortly into his rookie season, Pop started jacking with Splitter's confidence. Then he sent Chip over to fuck with his mechanics. If Splitter had a girlfriend, I'm sure Pop probably would have tried to screw with her, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertSpur50
And people wonder why Tiago FT% went all to hell... lmao..
When you see Splitter's overseas highlights you can't help but think his game has regressed under Pop. Pop's comments from a while ago that the only jumpers Tiago takes are layups and dunks shows he's clueless. If Tiago could somehow morph back into that confident player who had no problem posting and taking outside shots it would really help the upside of the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
It's been what, 2 weeks starting together and the Timmy/Tiago hi-low is already 10x better than Dwight/Gasol's shitty offensive attack :lol
So the Tiago we see now is the Tiago we could have seen his rookie year...
Sure thing. Does anyone remember when Tony was substituted for by Claxton because Tony had no idea how to finish games? This held Tony back for many years I guess...
Free Tiago to let him get tangled in his own lips...
When is Tiago going to actually shove an opponent and give him the Frankensteinian stare?
I love the guy, but honestly I dont see how anyone thinks Pop purposely thwarted his progression. Thats just paranoid ignorance. Pop is a stubborn old geezer, but some of these posts are absolutely without merit and silly.
Yeah. With all the Dwight Howard's roaming the Euro floors and all... Remember the big Brit we drafted, Richards. Go back and look at his highlights. He looks better than Tiago. It does not matter he is playing against slow midgets.Quote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
We've only said this for more than 2 years, start Splitter next to Duncan. Took over 2 years for Pop to do it. What's next though, abandoning it in the playoffs? We shall see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rNXP2ndT9M
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
Chip changed his shooting mechanics, that's why he was so bad FT shooter in his rookie year.Quote:
Originally Posted by therealtruth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
Capt with the goods.
This is true. And Splitter isn't the first "personal" decision pop has made either
You and Pop were wrong. Just admit it, no need to be angry.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Truth hurtsQuote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
So let's get this straight.. according to you a legion of Dwight Howards roaming the Euro floors would turn everyone in Europe into cowering mice who can't shoot jumpers from the outside? Doubtful... if anything it would influence most to become more proficient at outside shooting since no one would want to try to take the ball to the basket. Your argument has no merit.... whatsoever. Rumphumper and Blake need to start sending you tools to the advanced popsucking class. This is too easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Im just greatful to see POp finally coming around to making a serious effort with Tiago. Still agree with the chorus of people posting Pop held him back and it was a non-sensical to. Not much to add to it except you can tell to this day that when Pop talks Tiago he's in defensive mode when commenting. I mean by the "we all knew how good Splitter is " or " what he doing know he did it in Europe " talk. The main reason coach puts out there on why Tiago was a non-factor for 2 seasons was injury and missing pre-season. Like others i don't buy it. Im guessing it had more to do with Pop showing faith and favour with players who had been here longer. I also think our illustrious coach went away from a philosophy he's gone back to this season. Allowing players to earn and fight for their mins and then a place in the rotation, going away projects as in Blair and Bonner.
well thanks Dan , i guess the stats confirm what seemed clear as day, that even coach Pop couldn't ignore. Out of Spurs' bigs Splitter is best at defending the pick and roll and making rotations on team D. If you want acticipation, positioning and mobility. All combined, the Tiago of this season has gotten really good at it.Quote:
Last but certainly not least, Splitter also plays surprisingly solid defense according to the numbers compiled by Synergy. Even better than Duncan in some spots, in fact, including post-ups (0.62 points per play, 12th) and pick-and-rolls (0.97 ppp, 25th). With Duncan anchoring the defense as well as he has in years, the tandem would seem to be an ideal matchup for bigger teams like Memphis and the Lakers.
Just hope Pop sticks to it. We are still seeing him experimenting with line-ups.
Pop is a competent coach who had the lucky to have a player called Tim Duncan in his rooster. Rebuilding the team without Duncam should expose his real capacity. But probably it will never happen.
It's very easy to look only at one facet of a game and say what you would do to improve it, then say the coach must be an idiot. You're not being tasked with every facet of the game, the franchise and whatever his personal life entails. You also don't know what his goals are. If you think a team is trying to win a ring every single year, you're missing something. A coach does what he can with what he has, and any other coach in the NBA wouldn't even make the playoffs with this roster. No way this bench in any other city does anything close to what they do in SA. Danny Green couldn't get playing time in Cleveland. George Hill still cannot get much in Indiana (and he sucks there as well, a testament to how they use him). Who the fuck is Gary Neal? I don't know, but other teams in the league sure as hell know who he is now, and if we dumped him they would pick him up. James Anderson even found a job.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
Say what you like about Pop, his last two rings were without overwhelming talent, just solid basketball. Duncan is good but he's not going to win on a team with a couple of mid to upper level players and a roster filled with foreign players, D leaguers and some washed up, about to retire sub stars.
You really have no clue about coaching if you think Pop is overrated.
The Lakers would sacrifice Kareem mid court on Christmas day to get Pop.
I didn't know Pop has a rooster and why is Tim fucking it?Quote:
Originally Posted by PingPong
My question is: Pop would reach the same success without Timmy?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Has George Hill been benched or something? The last time I looked, he was starting for the Pacers and getting plenty of court time. He also signed a pretty decent sized contract in the off season, so I doubt the Pacers would be sitting him on the bench. Are you sure that you know what you are talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Pop is a pretty darn good coach, but he has definitely made some mistakes along the way with certain personnel.
Same could be said of almost any HOF coach - good players make good coaches for the most part - you could ask the same question with Phil Jackson or Pat Riley - how good a coach is Eric Spoelstra or Scotty Brooks (in another 5-7 years one or maybe both of these guys will probably have at least two championship rings)Quote:
Originally Posted by PingPong
The bottom line is once a coach gets a player like Duncan - that coach will usually ride that player till the end and have enough success doing so that they can pick their next destination should they continue coaching - so very few of the "great" coaches will be in a siutation void of talent or in rebuild mode
Pop certainly deserves alot of credit even with TD in the equation - to have such sustained success in a small market with limited resources and nothing to attract Free agents, bottom line -the Spurs run has been pretty impressive and alot of people share in that success and Pop is one
As many have said Spur's fans are spoiled - I think Pop is the best coach currently in the NBA, but even an overrated Pop is in the top 5
Pop is a great coach but to think he ever started Blair or Bonner, except for injuries or to give an occassional rest, over Splitter has to knock him down any list of great coaches.
What team are you talking about? Combine Duncan with Manu and Parker and you have a very talented team. We have also had some great role players in those championship years. You pretend like Pop worked with nothing and it is just ridiculous. Also what is wrong with having foreign players? Parker and Manu should not be able to play because they are not born in the USA? :bangQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I have no fucking idea what you're talking about. I never said anything remotely related to ability of foreign players. There is no overwhelming talent in SA. That's why we have 6 or 7 people in double digits, why someone like Neal can look like a beast. Pop can coach the bench to almost beating Miami, Mike D and Mike Brown couldn't coach 4 All Stars into beating the 6ers. "Very talented team" is not overwhelming talent, and by "talent" I do not mean their ability to play together effectively. I mean their individual talents. It's the Spurs system that allows them to prosper, as made evident by their post season results when they meet just two or three really athletic, talented players with a half decent system.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrSteffo
Just watch other coaches plays out of timeouts. They almost never have anything remarkable, if anything at all. Watch when they call their timeouts, normally after a 10pt run by the opponent. They rarely call timeouts to fix something they observe, it's almost always momentum timeouts. Pop has called timeouts in the first few seconds of a game, if he sees something he doesn't like. That's coaching, not just reacting to the scoreboard. There are only a handful of real NBA coaches still coaching, and Pop is the best in the league.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJastal
:lmao
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Pop is a good to great coach agreed.
Pop is responsible for the results ---good and bad.
Pop has done great things.
Pop has also favored the likes of zombie Finley over Bowen. Bonner over - everybody. Bogans as the "centerpiece." Numerous sweeps and/or backdoor sweeps by a playoff opponent, etc...
When you hear talk of the greatest coach in history, the best coach in basketball, etc...
I think it is safe to say that he is a bit overrated. Just look at his whole record and his personnel moves and his playoff failures and it doesn't take a genius to admit -that while he is still a good coach - his fuckups have knocked him down a couple of notches.
Unless you are a true Popsucker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA210
:toast
I think you can really wonder if he's not an underachiever tbh.
Also it pretty dumb to talk about the Miami game like it proves anything when we then almost lost to the harden less rockets... Just shows that sometimes teams play down to the competition...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Pop
Only a Popsucker would use a LOSS (Miami game) as some kind of a testament to the greatness of Pop.
Maybe that is why Pop gets all this praise after being eliminated 5 years in a row with 3 HALL OF FAMERS on the team!!!!!
Greatest coach indeed!
you are wanting it both ways and saying you can't have it both ways in a three sentence span.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
Bravo. :tu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Did the Spurs win a title last season?
Did Bonner prove the obvious to you again?
Was I right?
Is the Tiago/Timmy tandem working?
Just STFU because I was correct in everything I said for two years now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
That failure was really easy to find. if you use the search function, you'll be able to find them easy enough too. Either way let me know if you need more.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Yes.
Definitely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rummpd
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Are you that stupid?
Everything in that post was what undid the spurs hope last season and I was 100% correct in calling out Pop and Popsuckers for it.
Spurs failed in the playoffs because of Pop's stupidity and I called it and now you confirm it by posting it and you can't see it?
Wake up. Please.
Always believed in Tiago.
Funny what happens if people used their common sense :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
lol at you trying to spin your obvious failure into a success.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
I predict more spinning as well as a meltdown storm coming this way later on in this thread.
Funnier still that you think you have common sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by SA210
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA210
I don't think anyone can explain it to Blake in a way that he could understand though. Special people are "special" I guess.
:lol
Anytime you want to show where I was wrong - go right ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Spurs didn't win title - CHECK
Pop favored Bonner over Tiago - CHECK
Pop got out-coached again - CHECK
Spurs eliminated 5 years in a row - CHECK
Popsuckers still unconvinced - BIG CHECK
Too easy - CHECK
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverblk mystix
Wrong - CHECKQuote:
Originally Posted by you
Yet people don't realize that the decision to not start Splitter was also linked to Duncan and the fact we have no back up at center. Why is is different this year ? Probably because Tim is playin' an amazing level of basketball, rejuvenated he is running the floor like he is 30 y/o again and hitting long 2s at a high rate. With this kind of Duncan, spacing is less of an issue for the Spurs. Also Tiago seems to have get rid of all his small injuries that bothered him during a long time so he can play more and split his time between the first and second unit. Finally we have added Jax who can play some pf.
Now am I saying that Pop was not wrong with Tiago, Ian or the centerpiece or RJ or Bonner... ? no. I'm just saying stuff is not black or white. I do believe Pop could have been more active, patient trying to develop young bigs (Tiago, Ian) but also circumstances have dictated his line ups and he is always trying to find a good balance between his first and second unit.
That's just it though. Splitter's a player who needs extended minutes in order to learn from his mistakes and build up his confidence. He needs confidence in order to play. This is why people like me were saying that Pop needed to play him more in the regular season. That didn't happen so it was inevitable that Tiago would choke at some point. By April it was too late to integrate him and it was just a matter of time before something- free throws, bad match-ups, poor shooting- affected his confidence and brought down his overall play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Outside of the last 4 games of the WCF, he played well last year. I was actually surprised that he made it that far without breaking down and I thought that Pop did the right thing by pulling him when he did. What else was there to do at that point?
This year Pop has given him minutes and allowed him to play more with Duncan. This year Pop has come back to Spurs basketball and is letting his best players (ie. Not Bonner and Blair) play while still holding his team accountable. In other words, the Pop we all wanted is back.
If Splitter gets enough reps in I really think that he can provide TD with help upfront when it matters. Diaw will show up and with Jax playing some back-up 4, the Spurs' big rotation shouldn't be a liability in the playoffs this season. I'm not really a "nothing less than a championship" kinda gal. All I want to see is that the Spurs are maximizing their chances with the players they've got. Unlike last year, I think that the team is doing that. So although I might still want to see Gortat in the silver and black or a decent back-up pg, I have been a pretty happy fan this year.
people should stop talking about spacing issues when he played dewhataburger next to duncan this whole time
I think this is the first time I've seen someone make the case for starting Tiago by implying he is mentally weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSkeptic
Well that's why it didn't work all that well.Quote:
Originally Posted by freetiago
Duncan himself said that he's more of a perimeter player now. That's what made this work and what was said would make it work by many on this board.
I never understood how saying Tiago is a pussy would be a positive for him. He's not a pussy and doesn't have his confidence destroyed by any perceived setback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
We would have beaten Memphis and OKC?Quote:
Originally Posted by superbigtime
I would have to disagree strongly.
When's the last time the guy playing next to Tim got 3 blocks? We all know Tim can get that many blocks. I don't think we've seen the full potential of this frontcourt. Hopefully they can reach it before the playoffs.
That wasn't the question. The question was if we had title hopes with Splitter on the floor. Without him, there are none.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn