This.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
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This.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Parker is doing as much as he needs to. When teams focus on the smallest guy on the floor, the bigs need to step up and make them pay. It's one thing for Tony to beat the full court or the trap, but for him to have to be the leading scoring option is a bit too much to ask if you expect success in the post season. His points should come from keeping the defense honest, but often it comes from no other working scoring options.
Game 6 : 29 pts 12-27 FG 12 ast 1 to 2 stl, yeah he can't play against Sefolosha.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
In the last 3 playoffs games vs OKC, the Spurs scored 103, 103 & 99 points, that's enough to win those games. The problem is the defense !
And it's not just Sefolosha, OKC double team him everytime.
The Spurs lost that serie because OKC had Kevin Durant, 1 of the 2 best players in the world. Parker is a top 20 and some of you want him to play like he's a top 5. He's not. And he's a bargain at $12,500,000.
Or against Lebron James, he defended Tony Parker a lot in 2007 finals. And Cleveland as a team, was the 4th best defense in the league in 2007.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
But whatever. I think for some of you, it's more important to see the Spurs lose just to have the satisfaction to say it's Parker's fault.
That's just sad !
The defense giving up a lot of points because of the Spurs tactic of letting teams shoot from midrange. OKC happens to have a lot of guys who shoot well from there.
Which is why Leonard's ball thieving is key to beating the Thunder, because they still don't take care of the ball that well.
This is already not that bad to have opposing game plan entirely focused on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
The game plan to beat TP is to press him with a long, athletic defender and clog the lane with the bigs.
That means 3 defenders are already focused on taking him out and free our 3pts shooter and Manu with a lesser defender on him. If the 3pts shooter didn't failed in some series (Danny Green against OKC and Bonner to name a few) it would have been a lot better.
And with Leonard progress, a lineup with Leonard at the 4 (or SJax) can really help to punish a game plan focused on TP
I agree that if we put Manu in the starting lineup against OKC (which we should be able to do this year because they no longer have Harden in their second string) it would help take some of the defensive pressure off of Tony, since he won't be the only guy who can create off the dribble and/or pass.Quote:
Originally Posted by eric365
Single games don't tell me anything. It's a best of 7 series, if our #1 option only outlast Sefolosha in one game, then we're screwed. What's somewhat troubling is that in 2 games this season, not much has changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by timaios
Lebron guarded a lot of people in 2007, and he also had to carry the entire team offense. Cleveland was certainly a one-man show and as such, a fairly flawed team. Obviously, Tony didn't pick the matchup so I won't hold it against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by timaios
There's no such thing going on with Sefolosha.
I want the Spurs to win and give credit where credit is due. Fact is this is a star driven league and Tony is the star in his prime in this team, that's why it's crucial he overcomes his current limitations, since the Spurs have basically put all their chips on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by timaios
You're such biased, it's not funny anymore.
I think it is. Sorry to disapoint, tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by timaios
Sefolosha didn't defend Parker in the 1st game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
In the 2nd game Parker had 14 points 4/11 FG 7 ast 1 to in 25 min. (means 20 pts & 10 ast in 36min... not that bad)
Manu didn't play that game and Parker and the entire team were dead tired, 5 games (4 away) in 8 days.
So whatever.
The truth is OKC is better, younger and more athletic. If OKC is 100% healthy in the playoffs, the Spurs won't be favored.
Any player can be taken out of the game if focused on, then it falls on his teammates to step up and make the opponent pay. This didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
There's another schtick going on to say that Parker doesn't make his teammates better, yet when he is rendered ineffective everybody else sucks... the fact that the rest of the team can't adjust actually shows Parker makes all the other Spurs a lot more efficient. Sadly when the going gets tough, many role players disappear.
Right now Tony is healthy and playing the best ball of his career. He totally deserved his #5 ranking in the MVP race last year. Yet this means nothing is Old Duncan shows up instead of Rejuvenated Duncan, if Manu is injured, if Tiago doesn't get playing time, if Green and Bonner's balls shrink, etc. Even superstars need a surrounding cast, as you point out often enough when it comes to discrediting Parker's Finals MVP trophy by saying Lebron was running a one-man show.
It's not just that but if Sefalosha forces Parker to play like Kobe they've won also. Sefalosha is probably the closes thing to Bruce Bowen in that he's a guy the Thunder are happy to get offense from him but the only thing they really want from him is defense. So he can focus exclusively on shutting down Parker. Guys like Lebron teams have put on Parker in the past don't just play on side of the court. I am not sure the Spurs best option is attacking that matchup. When we had Bowen we would love it when the other team tried attacking that matchup because it usually decreased their effectiveness (Kobe for instance). Being able to initiate offense out of other guys and have TP play off the ball might be better at times.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
While I don't necessarily disagree with the notion that once one guy is somewhat neutered, other players should make you pay, this case is particular in that it's a classic 'pick your poison' where the *not* picking Parker is the easy choice. What does OKC loses defensively when Sefolosha is switched to Parker and Westbook is assigned to Green? Nothing. Can Green make Westbrook 'pay'? Not really. Even if you throw a Manu with a hot hand out there for Green, they can switch KD to him and hide Westchuck on Khawi. So, IMO, there really isn't a pick your poison situation. And the most likely solution to it comes from Tony actually being unguardable. I think he can do it. I don't even know what does Sefolosha do that bothers him so much.
Long arm, quick and smart at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Like Ariza, Conley, Diaw (a long time and a ton of weight ago) and the other players that defended well Parker
once again your expectations are not at the right level dude... TP is no Tim Duncan or Lebron James or Dirk. As stated by Harlem or by myself various times in various threads, if we have a chance to get a fifth title it will be because Tim is again dominant. TP can do a lot, he is a great playoff performer and one of the best PG in the league but he is not a franchise player that can lead a team to a title through 4 series in a row. In 2007 he get a well deserved mvp finals but the best player in 2007 PO was Tim Duncan. Every new title hope starts with Tim and will end with him or with the franchise player being the whole team aka Pistons and that's not happening any time soon. Now if you are disappointed by $12.5M PG that lead his team to a WCF and has been part of 3 titles it is because you are a spoiled kid hater like Lefty.Quote:
Originally Posted by TJastal
I obviously would love TP leading the Spurs to a fifth title but I don't see that happening.
Still TP had a tremendous month of December and an amazing 2012 so props to him.
^ what's with the lefty hate? :lol when did that start?
Lefty has always been a TP hater since forever... you know Algerians don't like a lot the French tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Fact is OKC is one the team equipped to bother the Spurs the most. They have a big shot blocker that can shoot the mid range jumper, they have a PG that can defend PG and SG (and you are right Green is not equipped to make Westbrick pay), they have a SF with the size of a center and they had Harden the poison. Tony has not all the tools to be unguardable during a PO run, yes he should be able to deal with Sefo, for that he needs to have the lane open but OKC packed inside, in that case TP best option is to distribute the ball for external shooters and these guys need to make their shots to stand a chance. Other option is for TP to go in god mode which he can do one or two games, a half (see game 6 first half) but not during the course of a 7 games serie. Once again he is no Lebron James or Dirk. Look at the awesomeness the mavs needed from their star ! If the debate is to compare TP to this kind of guys we are in the wrong discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Well, I don't really want TP to go Kobe as somebody else astutely pointed out. I don't even expect that from him. I guess I just don't have Sefolosha as the defensive force that should be able to routinely shut down MVP candidates. OKC is a great team. It was surprising to read last season before the WCF how underrated they were here. Probably due to the regular season fools gold record against them.
That's why you attack the matchups. Sefalosha is really the Thunder's version of Bowen. Sefalosha's only job is to be a defensive stopper. I don't think that's the matchup you attack if you can avoid it. You can't keep playing the same style if the matchups don't favor it which I think Pop likes to do before he panics at the last minute.
This is what I don't think that E-N ever gets. Tim Duncan is one of the best players in the history of the sport. But not even the great TD, in his prime, could deliver by himself. And Tony is no TD, nor LeBron nor Dirk). Tony is a really good player with a lot of heart who put this team on his back for most of last season and into the playoffs. But he is not a superstar. He needs help against a terrific defender and he didn't get it in the WCF last year and he hasn't gotten it so far this year. Pop said that the team probably over-achieved last year and I agree with him. But Tony is why they got as far as they did with the record they had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazil
One of the reasons I disagree with Timvp's grades on TP fairly often is that the grades are supposedly based on a given player's potential. The standard is not a standard of super-star excellence. But unless Tony plays like a superstar, he gets marked down for it. Tony doesn't have the natural athleticism, the long limbs and/or the height to be as good as some of the best in history. But for his abilities, he has really delivered for this franchise.
It seems absurd to me to simultaneously acknowledge that he is not as talented as some of his opponents while criticizing him for not single-handedly delivering the trophy to this team.
^ I just said he needs to figure out Sefolosha. Not sure where I said he needs to be Lebron, Dirk or TD, tbh...
My alleged hate for Parker is overblown too, IMO
and we just said it was not only Sefolosha but the whole defensive scheme of okc based on neutralizing TP. Nevertheless I'm not saying that TP couldn't have done a better job against Sefo or Conley, TP was Spurs best player he took a lot of the credit during the two first rounds it is normal he takes most of the blame against OKC. Now a lot of posters are taking TP for what he is not i.e a franchise type of player that can sustain a crazy PER during a whole PO.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I would disagree there's this massive scheming... I'm pretty sure their bigs are clogging the lane just as much when Westbrook guards him and the results are indeed different, so there's something in that matchup that's working real well for OKC. And sure, I agree with you that Tony has been vastly overrated in here many times. :lol
:lol regarding expectations that's for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by ElNono