Tmac&Luther I think you are misinterpreting everyone's posts today...are you on drugs? :lol:toast
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Tmac&Luther I think you are misinterpreting everyone's posts today...are you on drugs? :lol:toast
Is there anyone with worse takes than stretch? :lol
I'd say "Diaw > Lee" is a worse take than any of stretch's, tbh...Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
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Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
Empty stat padder is empty. Not saying Diaw is better but still :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Youre a faggot so of course you would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
Trying to hide your sadness with fake laughter, faggot? Enjoy the early fishing trip before the playoffs even start this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
All was needed was for you to say you're sorry for not being clear. No need to get defensive over your mistake. Your first comment was quite clear and inaccurate. Just k.i.m.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
I never said the players on the 2004 Team USA squad were bad. But aside from Duncan and Iverson, they were either second tier players or they were rookie players who would end up being stars but didn't get playing time. There was no Kobe, no Shaq, no KG, no T-Mac, no Kidd, no Vince. Most of the best American NBA players didn't play. The only true franchise superstars were Duncan and Iverson. Guys like Odom and Jefferson and Marion would never be on the squad if the best American NBA players decided to play. And after Duncan and Iverson, those three of Odom, Jefferson, and Marion were probably the next best three players on the team that got a lot of minutes. Again, in the gold medal match, Carmelo Anthony did not play. LeBron played 3 minutes. Why compare talent using Melo and LeBron when they didn't even play? That's why I went to Odom and Jefferson and Marion. They were the next best players on that squad.Quote:
Anyway, compared to Team USA, yes Ginobili did have a ragtag group of scrubs. You cite their "7 NBA players" as if they're on the same level as Wade, Melo, Duncan, Iverson, Marion, etc. Even Richard Jefferson back then was better than every player Team Argentina had except Manu and Scola. Also, many of those guys were eventually NBA players, not NBA players at the time.
Marion was also a very good player at the time. . .don't confuse what he is now for what he was. He was averaging 20/10 back then with borderline elite defensive ability. Odom was averaging 17/10/4 in the NBA, though not an elite defender. And Jefferson, while Spurfans love to shit on him, was actually playing at his peak back then. The year after the olympics, he averaged 22/7/4, and went to the Finals twice as the 2nd-3rd best player on his team leading into that olympic games. We're not talking about scrubs. Stephen Marburry and Amar'e Stoudemire weren't scrubs either btw.
Meanwhile, look at the guys like Andres Nocioni, Carlos Delfino, and Fabrico Oberto whom you're talking up as great NBA stars. Those three (and Scola) combined for exactly 0 seconds of play in the NBA before that game. Delfino went on to being a bench scrub for 3 years after that before becoming a mediocre starter for a bad team, still not putting up good numbers. Noc ended up playing for a dead end team. Spurfans know about Oberto and won't defend him being referred to as a scrub.
I literally don't even know who the other 2 of the "7" NBA players you're referring to were, because I've never heard of the rest of them outside of being on that team. Manu was the only guy with NBA experience back then, and it was just 2 years of it.
Delfino played in the NBA in 2003-04. Nocioni played in the NBA the following season after the Olympics. Scola was drafted in 2002 and would have been in the NBA sooner but had contract obligations and buyout issues. Walter Herrmann would play in the NBA. Pepe Sanchez made a couple NBA rosters but didn't cut it. Then there were Oberto and Wolkowyski. I don't claim those two weren't scrubs. I shouldn't have included Oberto. I don't mind him being called a scrub. But I did say he wasn't just a 2-8 MPG guy. And in his short NBA stint, he wasn't. Along with Ginobili, Argentina had three guys that won or would win in the following seasons the Spanish League MVP in Herrmann, Nocioni, and Scola. They weren't scrubs. They were some of the best players in one of the best pro leagues outside the NBA. And I never called Delfino, Nocioni, and Oberto "NBA stars." There you go misrepresenting what I said again. I just don't think you can call them scrubs, even compared to Team USA.
You can keep Wade in the conversation. But how can you put LeBron and Melo into the conversation when comparing talent when they didn't even play? Again 3 minutes between them in the gold medal game. They didn't play. You talked about Marion and Jefferson and what kind of players they were in 2004, but don't apply the same logic to Melo and LeBron. They were off their rookie NBA seasons and didn't really get a chance to play. But you want to use them in the talent comparison? Not logical. And Wade too was coming off his rookie campaign and wasn't the star he would end up becoming. In that gold medal game, he was the only one of those 3 to get significant minutes and he went 1-for-8 for 2 points with 3 turnovers. Dwyane Wade wasn't Dwyane Wade yet. While most of the Argentine players who got significant minutes were still in the primes of their careers.Quote:
"If you take LeBron, Melo and Wade out of the conversation". . .really? So now you've taken out 5 players from the conversation in total. Duncan, Iverson, LeBron, Melo and Wade, and are just talking about the "worst" players on the team vs the best from Argentina (with revisionist history too, by calling them NBA players before they even played there). How many players should we remove from the argument, and facts should we ignore exactly? I think I'm just going to stick to the facts, not remove or ignore them.
Right, they're not nearly as talented as Team USA. If it bothers you so much that I said that man, then just pretend that I said, "Ginobili led a massively less talented Team Argentina over Team USA", rather than "led a team of scrubs". In the end, my point was that Ginobili was a good leader, not that Team Argentina was full of bums who could barely lace up their shoes. They were scrubs in NBA terms, because most either never played in the NBA, or became bench warmers/players on awful teams. Ginobili and Scola were the only two from that team who ever amounted to anything significant.
And I don't agree that Argentina was massively less talented team than Team USA in the 2004 Olympics. Not when you factor in the things I've said, including team chemistry where most of the guys on the Argentine team had played together for years in international competition together while Team USA had a couple weeks leading up to the Olympics together. Not when you factor the fact that some of the most talented players on Team USA were young and Larry Brown didn't give them significant playing time. Do you also forget that Team Argentina had already beaten a Team USA in the 2002 FIBA World Championships? It was already proven that several international teams like Argentina and Yugoslavia and Spain could not only hang with but defeat a team of American NBA players. And Team USA didn't field the best team possible in the 2004 Olympics.
If you want to meet halfway, what I will concede is that the talent of individual players on Team USA by in large was greater than the talent of individual players on Argentina. But the game wasn't a series of one-on-one games between players. As a team, the talent level wasn't nearly as lopsided as you suggest for the reasons I've stated. Manu still gets and deserves a great deal of credit for leading Argentina to gold in 2004. But I think your opinion about the talent disparity is misguided because you only look at talent of individuals and do not take into account the other factors I've stated.
that olympic year RJ also signed a 40m extension during the games.....lol he didnt play like his worth the contract
James Harden, I think he is the Rockets' franchise player...
oberto and delfino were solid role players on contenders back then so they were not scrubs like you described tbh, nocioni was like the 3rd best player in chicago behind only deng and gordon and was one of the favorites to win 6th man of the year award. didn't know many teams who had such level of NBA talents back in the day, spain only had one significant NBA player in pau, and some true scrubs like raul lopez who never earned a solid stand in the NBA. china had yao who was arguably good but it still didn't make no difference when their next best was monke bateer :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
argentina was like the only national team besides US that could make up a starting 5 with NBA players imho
lol utsaQuote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
dudes were all jumping on the harden bashing website when i said they were all idiots for doing so..then harden went to houston and now everyone is on his cock? wtf
Defensive over my mistake? The only mistake that was made was your misinterpretation of what I meant. You tried to "correct" me, I cleared up what I meant for you in a way where it made logical sense that that's what I meant, and you refused to believe what I'm saying about it. And no, I'm not going to apologize for your misconceptions. Nor am I going to pretend I meant something I didn't because you seem to think there's a conspiracy at work.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamStone
Btw, I also meant that they beat Team USA at a game of basketball, not tennis, football, or ping pong. Oh, I also didn't mean that they "beat" Team USA by bludgeoning them with baseball bats. I mean, I guess I have to specifiy and say all these things I didn't mean, otherwise you're going to come up with some random shit I must've possibly meant since I didn't specify all possible parameters of what I meant and didn't mean.
Not even going to bother with the rest if you're going to just nitpick shit then have the audasity to expect an apology to satiate your paranoia.
You could make a starting 5 with 5 Matt Bonners too. Doesn't mean it's going to be a good starting 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Latarian Milton
Oberto was a mediocre role player with a very minor role on a contender. He was considered one of the weakest links of that team actually.
Nocioni wasn't very good. He scored, and that's about it. Semi decent PPG doesn't mean 3rd best player either. You can pump up Gordon all you want but that doesn't somehow make Noc any better than he was. Also, what year exactly was he the third best player on the Bulls? He was the 7th or 8th best player on that team in 2005. 5th best in 2006. 5th best in 2007. 5th or 6th best in 2008. 9th or 10th best in 2009.
I have no idea what you're talking about with being their 3rd best player. You're way off on that one dude. I would ask if you actually watched the Bulls much (or at all) when he was on their team instead of just looking at a stat sheet, but you can't have looked at the stat sheet and possibly come to that conclusion.
Delfino was a scrub for Detroit, not an important role player. Less than 4 PPG first two years with them (2005, 2006), then barely cracked the 5 point barrier once Detroit stopped being a contender (2007). He was an irrelevant part of that team.
I'd say Harden is top 10, but not top 5. I'd still rank him behind Kobe and D-Wade at shooting guard. He and Kobe have virtually identical statistics, and Kobe is a much better defender. No way I'd rank him ahead of guys like Lebron, Durant, Parker, or CP3 right now. The two best bigs in terms of PER (Tim Duncan and Brook Lopez) both rank ahead of him (in terms of PER). Harder to compare guards to bigs though in my opinion. The highest I could rank him right now would be 7th. If Dwight Howard wasn't having such a down year, for him at least, I would put him ahead of Harden as well.
lolwutQuote:
Originally Posted by mercos
I don't really watch a lot of Rockets games or pay attention to Harden's defense too closely when I have watched them. And based on his defensive rating, it doesn't seem like he's all that great a defender. But Kobe can't be a much better defender than Harden. Kobe doesn't even try on defense most of the time. When I watch Lakers games, there will be a bunch of times during games where the guy Kobe's defending is taking wide open jumpers from one corner and Kobe is all the way on the opposite elbow staring at the guy who just had the ball and because Kobe isn't paying attention to his man. Kobe usually doesn't get back in transition. He constantly gets beat off the dribble too. And even when he's the one who fucked up on defense, you'll see him wave up both hands in the air like it was his teammates' fault for not covering for him. Maybe Kobe has the better potential to still be the better defender, but it seems he rarely shows the desire to be that unless it's a nationally televised game against a big name like LeBron or Durant or Carmelo.
With the way Kobe is for the most part disinterested in playing defense, even if Harden is a below average defender, no way is Kobe "much better" than Harden defensively. And I'm saying that as someone who is still a fan of Kobe. Kobe's defense is atrocious. Kobe may or may not still be better than Harden. That might be a debate. But it won't be because of his defense.
This much is true. I was speaking more of pure defensive ability, where I would put Kobe far ahead of Harden, who has never shown anything special on the defensive end.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamStone
Forgetting about Greece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
You too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamStone
Harden and Kobe are both terrible defensive players, tbh..
I don't know where anybody got the idea that Harden is a decent defender..he wasn't last year and he still isn't..