The Curious Brainwashing Case of ...

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Either you don't know or you are playing games...I broke off from the christian thread to start this one - once Woo Bung Hole and I agreed on the premise/issue--
when he agreed that the premise was indeed brainwashing and that he didn't think anyone of us was ever brainwashed - I started this thread to demonstrate how it is very common for people to be brainwashed and in fact I think most of us were.

End of story.

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An OP is an OP, and you just repeated the error you made there.

End of story.

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Join the topic and let your butthurt go.

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I did join the topic. All I got was defensiveness, excuse making and OP denial. Butthurt is a bigger problem for you than brainwashing. No one could possibly take your talk of happiness and enlightenment seriously if you can't let it go.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

An OP is an OP, and you just repeated the error you made there.

End of story.


I did join the topic. All I got was defensiveness, excuse making and OP denial. Butthurt is a bigger problem for you than brainwashing. No one could possibly take your talk of happiness and enlightenment seriously if you can't let it go.

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Well I am well on the way to doing just that - with Blake teaching me all about true happiness - how can I lose? :lol

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

??Read above comments - the labels aren't the problem - the programming/brainwashing is.

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So this is us just getting to watch you masturbate. Lovely.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Well I am well on the way to doing just that - with Blake teaching me all about true happiness - how can I lose? :lol

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you certainly can't win

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Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins

So this is us just getting to watch you masturbate. Lovely.

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Did you read Freddie's story?

It is more than witnessing a masturbation - but hey if that is your thing...

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Originally Posted by Blake

you certainly can't win

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I was programmed to lose...

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

I was programmed to lose...

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I think you were born with it

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

First of all...did you read Freddie's story?

What is your take on Freddie's story? Any parallels to anyone you know or to your life - if you'd rather reference someone else that is understandable.

Isn't Freddie like most people and Freddie's upbringing very similar to a lot of people (give or take a few details) ?

How are people who know "truth" the unhappiest? I would argue that if it was "truth" they found they are the happiest, the mystics, infants, dogs, creatures, etc....

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Actually, I don't think Freddie is like most people at all... Or at least, not like people I have met since high school. Most children who reach puberty tend to ask these sorts of questions and have figured out for themselves what they think is true or not. At least, in the company I keep. Sure, they haven't questioned everything, but they have usually questioned the important things.

And knowing the truth of the world can be pretty shitty to be honest. Millions are starving. Multiple people are being raped, murdered etc etc at this very second, and even if you had billions of dollars you still couldn't fix it. There are far more unpleasant truths than pleasant ones. It's one of the few things I think Kierkegaard got right.

Silverblk, if you really want enlightenment, I might suggest reading up on the topic of projection. You are taking this story and assuming everyone else grows up the same way, and yet everyone in this thread has disagreed with you. You could a) assume we are all colluding to challenge you, which makes no sense, b) in complete denial, which doesn't make much sense either or c) you could be wrong about your brainwashing hypothesis.

If I wrote a story saying how every son grows up to marry a woman like their mother, and multiple people posted that their wives were completely different from their mothers, wouldn't you think it a bit silly if I insisted that, deep down somewhere, their wife DID act like their mother on some subconscious level?

He's arguing like a conspiracy theorist now. The fact that we disagree with him only proves his point further, in his mind. If he is wrong about something, it's because he is brainwashed, too. He also doesn't need to actually read up on any of this, because everybody is brainwashed and can't be right.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Actually, I don't think Freddie is like most people at all... Or at least, not like people I have met since high school. Most children who reach puberty tend to ask these sorts of questions and have figured out for themselves what they think is true or not. At least, in the company I keep. Sure, they haven't questioned everything, but they have usually questioned the important things.

??(typing on an iPad)... Fair enough...it appears that you have met people who are blissful and happy and are not working and striving because they falsely believe happiness lies somewhere in the future.Amazing. You are living a very charmed life if NONE of the people you know are unhappy. I envy you. You live in a very different world than mine.

And knowing the truth of the world can be pretty shitty to be honest. Millions are starving. Multiple people are being raped, murdered etc etc at this very second, and even if you had billions of dollars you still couldn't fix it. There are far more unpleasant truths than pleasant ones. It's one of the few things I think Kierkegaard got right.

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??hmmm...well, seems contradictory....if the world you described above is real...where is this sudden unhappiness coming from?
This is not the case at all when true happiness is involved. True happiness is when you have died to everything and you can see yourself and the world clearly....the reality of the world is not going to make you unhappy to think about. This would make you a puppet who was tossed about by external events.

??

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Silverblk, if you really want enlightenment,
????who ever said I was looking for that? Not me. I only wanted to discuss this and before that I was only pointing out how hypocritical it was to bash Christians when no one else is any better.
I might suggest reading up on the topic of projection. You are taking this story and assuming everyone else grows up the same way, and yet everyone in this thread has disagreed with you. You could a) assume we are all colluding to challenge you, which makes no sense, b) in complete denial, which doesn't make much sense either or c) you could be wrong about your brainwashing hypothesis.

??fair enough....no one has to agree....just wanted to have a discussion...if no one knows anyone in their world that is unhappy, that has suffered, that ever had a bad divorce where they suffered- then good for all of you. I envy all of you that live in a world that is perfect with perfectly happy people. I must be the only one who knows people that mistakenly spend their lives chasing money,things,achievements, titles, success.
????I never knew I was among people who were completely and perfectly happy here. Amazing.

If I wrote a story saying how every son grows up to marry a woman like their mother, and multiple people posted that their wives were completely different from their mothers, wouldn't you think it a bit silly if I insisted that, deep down somewhere, their wife DID act like their mother on some subconscious level?

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Yes, it would and no I am not trying to do that. If Freddie's story didn't resonate with you or with anyone....it is all good, I feel that I represented some common things in a lot of our childhoods.if I was wrong....no worries...thanks for reading. It was informative to me anyway.

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

He's arguing like a conspiracy theorist now. The fact that we disagree with him only proves his point further, in his mind. If he is wrong about something, it's because he is brainwashed, too. He also doesn't need to actually read up on any of this, because everybody is brainwashed and can't be right.

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Woo- it is all good - you don't have to agree - no one does.

Here is something for you to ponder;

Those Christians that you bash - do you think they were born "christian?" Where did their christian belief come from? They inherited from somewhere.

Yup, programming.

Why don't YOU have that "title?"

Different programming.

Which part of all this did I get wrong from the very beginning?

Those Christians were raised Christian. I was raised Christian, too, and chose not to be Christian anymore. If you want to call it programming, fine. I am not brainwashed. I looked at the religion on my own and saw that it didn't make much sense and had as much evidence supporting it as every other religion.

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

Those Christians were raised Christian. I was raised Christian, too, and chose not to be Christian anymore. If you want to call it programming, fine. I am not brainwashed. I looked at the religion on my own and saw that it didn't make much sense and had as much evidence supporting it as every other religion.

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Right, so regarding RELIGION, you re-programmed yourself from your previous brainwashing. Outstanding. So this gives you the right to bash others just like you because you re-programmed yourself and can now see how you were blind before - but now you are not brainwashed regarding religion. So you bash them because they haven't yet arrived to where you are-able to see that their Christian BELIEFS are wrong. Fair enough.

So now you are bashing ME because I re-programmed myself in ways that you haven't arrived yet and are still brainwashed by. So now you are bashing someone who is ahead of you on the re-programming ladder.

And I am the hypocrite in this scenario.

Got it.

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Silverblk, if you really want enlightenment, I might suggest reading up on the topic of projection. You are taking this story and assuming everyone else grows up the same way, and yet everyone in this thread has disagreed with you. You could a) assume we are all colluding to challenge you, which makes no sense, b) in complete denial, which doesn't make much sense either or c) you could be wrong about your brainwashing hypothesis.

If I wrote a story saying how every son grows up to marry a woman like their mother, and multiple people posted that their wives were completely different from their mothers, wouldn't you think it a bit silly if I insisted that, deep down somewhere, their wife DID act like their mother on some subconscious level?

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I forgot to add;

You must have missed those threads here at Spurstalk - the ones where someone asks , "what is your major?"

and it turns into a bashfest because some people are superior because their "label" or "title" will earn them more money than those they are bashing...

their "programming" didn't tell them that money would make them "superior" and "happier" than those they were bashing...they weren't brainwashed into thinking that their chosen field made them "superior" to other "less reputable" fields....

I guess I am misinformed here.

I am bashing you because your beliefs are stupid and wrong, too, and don't hold up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.

Your absolute refusal to explain how I am brainwashed or how it is wrong to not believe in something that has no evidence supporting it, only strengthens my belief that you are an idiot who has no idea what he was talking about.

"God exists."

That's a claim. The claim is either true or false, depending on how one defines "God." I am of the opinion that one should believe that that claim is true if, and only if, there is sufficient evidence for it. I have not seen any sufficient evidence for any supernatural definition of God, and I therefore do not believe God exists.

You claim that I am wrong and brainwashed (by?), yet you haven't and will never be able to make a logical argument explaining why.

Silverblk, happiness is not usually in a permanent state. If one were happy all the time, it would certainly cheapen the experience, I feel. Only by knowing something's opposite can you appreciate it. Regarding title bashing, some careers are certainly considered more "superior" than others. That's why they get paid more by society. It says little about the actual person, but most people understand that the worth of a job is not the measure of the person holding it.

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

I am bashing you because your beliefs are stupid and wrong, too, and don't hold up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny.

Did you read Freddie's story? Did it remind you of anyone you know? Were you ever given a list like Freddie's - ie are there things that you feel that you cannot be happy without? Anything you think you need to have in order to be happy?

Your absolute refusal to explain how I am brainwashed or how it is wrong to not believe in something that has no evidence supporting it, only strengthens my belief that you are an idiot who has no idea what he was talking about.

Your above answers should be more helpful than your name calling and judgments.

"God exists."

That's a claim. The claim is either true or false, depending on how one defines "God." I am of the opinion that one should believe that that claim is true if, and only if, there is sufficient evidence for it. I have not seen any sufficient evidence for any supernatural definition of God, and I therefore do not believe God exists.


I understand what you are saying here - but the issue of "god" doesn't apply. Sorry. It just doesn't and there is no scientific evidence to support that there is or isn't.
You are like the little "special" child that has a board with triangles and squares and he is bashing the fuck out of the square peg because it won't fit into the triangle slot...getting angrier and angrier -because he is convinced that it will fit. :lol

Sorry, it won't and you are convinced and brainwashed that your way of thinking - by using conventional rationale will somehow apply to the issue of "god."

You are seriously misguided here.


You claim that I am wrong and brainwashed (by?), yet you haven't and will never be able to make a logical argument explaining why.

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The answers are in Freddie's story and how we were programmed. Give it a chance and try to remember how many things you were told you couldn't be happy without.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Silverblk, happiness is not usually in a permanent state. If one were happy all the time, it would certainly cheapen the experience, I feel. Only by knowing something's opposite can you appreciate it. Regarding title bashing, some careers are certainly considered more "superior" than others. That's why they get paid more by society. It says little about the actual person, but most people understand that the worth of a job is not the measure of the person holding it.

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I am at the office working so I will ponder on your statement and get back to you.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

??hmmm...well, seems contradictory....if the world you described above is real...where is this sudden unhappiness coming from?
This is not the case at all when true happiness is involved. True happiness is when you have died to everything and you can see yourself and the world clearly....the reality of the world is not going to make you unhappy to think about. This would make you a puppet who was tossed about by external events.

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Why would seeing the world clearly, with all the ugliness that occurs, make one happy? Especially when one is faced with their near complete inability to do anything about it?

Yawn. The idiot cultist again claims that the God claim is exempt from the burden proof without proving why.

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

Yawn. The idiot cultist again claims that the God claim is exempt from the burden proof without proving why.

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It is in the freddie story...but it would be in later chapters...

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Why would seeing the world clearly, with all the ugliness that occurs, make one happy? Especially when one is faced with their near complete inability to do anything about it?

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Didn't say the world condition would make someone happy - the world condition would not make you unhappy either. These are two different things.

A person in the state of true happiness won't be pulled either way...as they say in the east..."all is well...all is well"

Reality is perfect. Reality is not problematic. The problems are in human beings brains. In sleeping humans (or brainwashed- same thing).

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Didn't say the world condition would make someone happy - the world condition would not make you unhappy either. These are two different things.

A person in the state of true happiness won't be pulled either way...as they say in the east..."all is well...all is well"

Reality is perfect. Reality is not problematic. The problems are in human beings brains. In sleeping humans (or brainwashed- same thing).

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Seems like a slight abdication of responsbility there. To know about all the world's problems, and not even feel slightly compelled to do one's part to alleviate the suffering... seems callous.

How would you define "perfect"? A mother miscarrying a baby doesn't involve any brainwashing, but I wouldn't say it's perfect. A child that dies at a young age isn't perfect. An old man who suffers painfully into his advanced years isn't perfect.

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Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Seems like a slight abdication of responsbility there. To know about all the world's problems, and not even feel slightly compelled to do one's part to alleviate the suffering... seems callous.

Not quite. You jumped to a few assumptions in a row there. #1- who's to say anyone is responsible and who is to say that a state of true happiness feels no responsibilty?
#2- who's to say the awakened person is not compelled to do his part?
#3) - Who's to say that suffering needs to be alleviated? Or that it isn't?
#4) Callous? Is nature callous when a tornado destroys property and kills humans?
Is a tiger callous when he pounces on his prey for his cubs dinner?
#5 If a person is unhappy and troubled or disgusted or angry or vengeful when he goes out in help of others - "to alleviate suffering"...whom is he helping? The people he wants to help - or is he just responding to his programming to alleviate the guilt that his computer (brain) is generating? Is he going out to help others while he is sleepwalking? Then what good would he be if he is just doing it out of a neurotic desire to obey his computer who is telling him he must have "negative" emotions whenever the problem of evil presents itself?

Mysteries? Questions? Reality? Programming?

Yes.

How would you define "perfect"? A mother miscarrying a baby doesn't involve any brainwashing, but I wouldn't say it's perfect. A child that dies at a young age isn't perfect. An old man who suffers painfully into his advanced years isn't perfect.

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If one was programmed from birth to believe that we should all have healthy lives and live a long happy life without suffering - yes it would certainly be a tragedy. If one was not programmed or re-programmed himself to be in touch with reality - these things would just be a normal part of reality.

Who is crazier or calloused - the person who suffers when faced with reality?

Or

The awakened who is in touch with reality and realizes that reality is reality and adding our opinion of it -is irrelevant?

Pick one.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Not quite. You jumped to a few assumptions in a row there. #1- who's to say anyone is responsible and who is to say that a state of true happiness feels no responsibilty?

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You yourself said the problem is humans, and that reality is perfect. If reality is perfect, that assumes that humans are the problem. If humans are the problem, then fixing that problem would make it their responsibility.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

#2- who's to say the awakened person is not compelled to do his part?

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He might be.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

#3) - Who's to say that suffering needs to be alleviated? Or that it isn't?

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Usually, it's considered a good thing to alleviate suffering. I guess someone could choose to do nothing, and stay "happy", but I certainly couldn't. Then again, I am more of an existentialist (the Sartre sort).

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

#4) Callous? Is nature callous when a tornado destroys property and kills humans?

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Nature is unthinking. But I would say it is callous not to help your fellow man if you have the capacity to do so without putting an undue strain on yourself.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

#5 If a person is unhappy and troubled or disgusted or angry or vengeful when he goes out in help of others - "to alleviate suffering"...whom is he helping? The people he wants to help - or is he just responding to his programming to alleviate the guilt that his computer (brain) is generating? Is he going out to help others while he is sleepwalking? Then what good would he be if he is just doing it out of a neurotic desire to obey his computer who is telling him he must have "negative" emotions whenever the problem of evil presents itself?

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Actually an interesting question. Some could argue that they are merely helping in order to make themself feel better. But I don't think that sort of "selfishness" is a bad thing. If people are hardwired to get good feelings from helping others, that's a bonus. And again, you are assuming brainwashing. I can tell you that my parents certainly didn't raise me as an existentialist; that's something I read on my own, and it felt "right" to me. Now you could argue that it felt "right" due to brainwashing, but then you get to a state where every person's actions are out of their control and are merely in reaction to the original "first movement", which eliminates any sort of free will.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

If one was programmed from birth to believe that we should all have healthy lives and live a long happy life without suffering - yes it would certainly be a tragedy. If one was not programmed or re-programmed himself to be in touch with reality - these things would just be a normal part of reality.

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Just because things are a part of reality doesn't mean they aren't tragic. Should the mother who recognizes that death is a part of life not grieve her son?

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Who is crazier or calloused - the person who suffers when faced with reality?

Or

The awakened who is in touch with reality and realizes that reality is reality and adding our opinion of it -is irrelevant?

Pick one.

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The second is certainly more calloused. Humanity has emotions; if you don't have emotions you're not human. And it's obviously not irrelevant since how we react to situations determines multiple fates. Even your supposed mystic will have opinions. For instance, does your mystic like the taste of chicken more, or beef? Which is the "true" reality?

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

Yawn. The idiot cultist again claims that the God claim is exempt from the burden proof without proving why.

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Here is some truth for you to ponder;


Neither one of us (you and I) has been in 100% contact with reality since we were infants.

Neither one of us has ever seen what this "god" is. Neither one of us has witnessed anyone prove that "god" does not exist.

Your programming tells you that evidence is needed only on one side and that only one side has what someone "programmed" you to believe - which is called the "burden of proof."

You were programmed to accept this without question because the programmers had "titles" and "credentials" which they were programmed to believe - were necessary - and they accepted THAT programming without question. (still with me?)

I received the same programming...then I said...ok...smarty pants, "so prove there is NOT a god"

They couldn't. So they lost credibility with me. They were no different than the people who "claimed" there is a god. No different.

You blindly accepted that because these sleeping scientists had titles that they actually had some kind of monopoly on truth. They didn't. They don't.
They can write that formula into the curriculum. They can award people titles when they complete that curriculum. They can shove that formula deep in your asshole the way they did and they can shove it down your throat the way they did. It still wouldn't make it true. They still wouldn't know what truth is-just because they "labeled it -refuting the truth"

Either way both you and I would still not be in direct contact with reality.


The idiot here would be probably both of us.

Me, for trying to open your eyes to your programming that you refuse to acknowledge...

You, for calling someone an idiot who is trying to alert you to your programming which you deny.

Seriously, the only think I'm picking up is SBM's need to feel superior in some way over other people. Doesn't come of as happy in any way whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Here is some truth for you to ponder;


Neither one of us (you and I) has been in 100% contact with reality since we were infants.

Neither one of us has ever seen what this "god" is. Neither one of us has witnessed anyone prove that "god" does not exist.

Your programming tells you that evidence is needed only on one side and that only one side has what someone "programmed" you to believe - which is called the "burden of proof."

You were programmed to accept this without question because the programmers had "titles" and "credentials" which they were programmed to believe - were necessary - and they accepted THAT programming without question. (still with me?)

I received the same programming...then I said...ok...smarty pants, "so prove there is NOT a god"

They couldn't. So they lost credibility with me. They were no different than the people who "claimed" there is a god. No different.

You blindly accepted that because these sleeping scientists had titles that they actually had some kind of monopoly on truth. They didn't. They don't.
They can write that formula into the curriculum. They can award people titles when they complete that curriculum. They can shove that formula deep in your asshole the way they did and they can shove it down your throat the way they did. It still wouldn't make it true. They still wouldn't know what truth is-just because they "labeled it -refuting the truth"

Either way both you and I would still not be in direct contact with reality.


The idiot here would be probably both of us.

Me, for trying to open your eyes to your programming that you refuse to acknowledge...

You, for calling someone an idiot who is trying to alert you to your programming which you deny.

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All this typing just to shift the burden of proof.

The one making the claim has the burden of proof. Saying "you can't prove that God doesn't exist," is absolutely pointless, because it does nothing to support the claim that God exists.

For the claim to be believable, there must be sufficient evidence. Lack of evidence contradicting it is not, in itself, evidence for it. That's actually a logical fallacy.

If you actually spent time reading about this simple concept instead of making up cultist nonsense, you wouldn't come off as ignorant.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Seriously, the only think I'm picking up is SBM's need to feel superior in some way over other people. Doesn't come of as happy in any way whatsoever.

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His pure state of enlightened happiness is what got him banned by unhappy mods, imo.

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You blindly accepted that because these sleeping scientists had titles that they actually had some kind of monopoly on truth. They didn't. They don't.
They can write that formula into the curriculum. They can award people titles when they complete that curriculum. They can shove that formula deep in your asshole the way they did and they can shove it down your throat the way they did. It still wouldn't make it true. They still wouldn't know what truth is-just because they "labeled it -refuting the truth"

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Actually, it's just a case of simple logic. To claim the positivity of something, you need to prove it. Now, if someone said, "There IS no god", then you could ask him to prove that statement. If someone said, "The (Judeo-Christian) God you've described doesn't exist, according to logic", then he would need to show how the logic breaks down.

If you were to answer in response, "God doesn't follow logic", then it's a pointless argument. (Of course, he could ask you how you could possibly know that, but that's another argument.)

Again, to use the Flying Spaghetti Monster, can you prove he doesn't exist? I doubt you can. But that doesn't mean we should start wondering if he's actually out there, or treating that option seriously.

Silverblk, just curious, how deprogrammed do you think you are? As a %? And then what % do you think the average person is deprogrammed?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Seriously, the only think I'm picking up is SBM's need to feel superior in some way over other people. Doesn't come of as happy in any way whatsoever.

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Ok. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Here is some truth for you to ponder;


Neither one of us (you and I) has been in 100% contact with reality since we were infants.

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Even if that made sense, you couldn't prove that to be a truth.

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I received the same programming...then I said...ok...smarty pants, "so prove there is NOT a god"

They couldn't. So they lost credibility with me. They were no different than the people who "claimed" there is a god. No different.

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Actually they are completely different.

Not sure you will ever not be blind to the logic as to why. Use det Ipad and google it.

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Ok. Thanks.

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You're welcome.

No one that snarky and sarcastic could possibly be truly, blissfully happy.

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

All this typing just to shift the burden of proof.

The one making the claim has the burden of proof.

According to your programming -yes. According to reality - not even close.



Saying "you can't prove that God doesn't exist," is absolutely pointless, because it does nothing to support the claim that God exists.

See above.

For the claim to be believable, there must be sufficient evidence. Lack of evidence contradicting it is not, in itself, evidence for it. That's actually a logical fallacy.


See above.

If you actually spent time reading about this simple concept instead of making up cultist nonsense, you wouldn't come off as ignorant.

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You missed the part where I went through the same brainwashing class. Difference is I saw through it- eventually.


But we can save a lot of wasted time here;

If in thousands of years no one has satisfied your neurotic need to have someone satisfy your "conventional" requirements - of proving or disproving this mystery...then it won't ever be satisfied on a message board.

Sorry.

Stay programmed, my friend!

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Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

I forgot to add;

You must have missed those threads here at Spurstalk - the ones where someone asks , "what is your major?"

and it turns into a bashfest because some people are superior because their "label" or "title" will earn them more money than those they are bashing...

their "programming" didn't tell them that money would make them "superior" and "happier" than those they were bashing...they weren't brainwashed into thinking that their chosen field made them "superior" to other "less reputable" fields....

I guess I am misinformed here.

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If you felt inferior in that thread, that's on you and your thin skin, pussy.

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Originally Posted by Blake

His pure state of enlightened happiness is what got him banned by unhappy mods, imo.

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This seems really important to you for some strange reason.

It takes all kinds....

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

You're welcome.

No one that snarky and sarcastic could possibly be truly, blissfully happy.

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lol

:lol "according to reality"

According to reality, the same thing is true. A claim being poorly supported in theory will also be poorly supported in reality.

You are a true moron. You make up complete bullshit about enlightenment, perfection, etc., and have shown that you lack the most basic logical reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Blake

Even if that made sense, you couldn't prove that to be a truth.



Actually they are completely different.

Not sure you will ever not be blind to the logic as to why. Use det Ipad and google it.

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lol

the ipad alert was so that any typos would be forgiven....didn't specify but if you've used one you'll understand how tricky it can be to type accurately...

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Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

:lol "according to reality"

According to reality, the same thing is true. A claim being poorly supported in theory will also be poorly supported in reality.

Yes, a reality that you haven't been in direct contact with most of your life...ok. A reality you kn nothing of - and yet - you want to debate it.

You are a true moron. You make up complete bullshit about enlightenment, perfection, etc., and have shown that you lack the most basic logical reasoning.

---

When truth is elusive - resort to name-calling. I missed that brainwashing class.

It is entirely possible that people are better than you are at typing on iPads.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

It is entirely possible that people are better than you are at typing on iPads.

---

Not possible -probable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

When truth is elusive - resort to name-calling. I missed that brainwashing class.

---

Since you have been calling everyone in this thread brainwashed, you're showing your hypocrisy more and more.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

So now you are bashing ME because I re-programmed myself in ways that you haven't arrived yet and are still brainwashed by. So now you are bashing someone who is ahead of you on the re-programming ladder.

And I am the hypocrite in this scenario.

Got it.

Thanks.

---

Roflmao. The enlightened condescending is awesome.

Don't ever say you never say you are better than others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

When truth is elusive - resort to name-calling. I missed that brainwashing class.

---

You obviously made it for thin skinned butthurt class.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

lol

the ipad alert was so that any typos would be forgiven....didn't specify but if you've used one you'll understand how tricky it can be to type accurately...

---

Is it too tricky to use google?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

lol

---

Doubtful

Silverblk, when you get a chance, feel free to respond to my posts. :tu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Silverblk, when you get a chance, feel free to respond to my posts. :tu

---

Been tryin' to....

I also decided to try something else...I think I will make a little time this evening and "break" down one of the usual suspects and demonstrate exactly how their programming is intact.

But which one....?

Hmm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Been tryin' to....

I also decided to try something else...I think I will make a little time this evening and "break" down one of the usual suspects and demonstrate exactly how their programming is intact.

But which one....?

Hmm...

---

I hope this ends up being as bad ass as it sounds.

I predict it will consist of a lot of "See, that's your brainwashing. I'm not brainwashed, therefore I win."

Skeptics are funny

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Skeptics are funny

---

Magicians are until they get exposed.

Faux enlightened hypocrites are hilarious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

You yourself said the problem is humans, and that reality is perfect. If reality is perfect, that assumes that humans are the problem. If humans are the problem, then fixing that problem would make it their responsibility.

Why would you think that? That humans bear some responsibility of reality? Reality is going to go on with or with out humans - just like nature is going to do what nature does regardless of what opinion humans have of it.



He might be.



Usually, it's considered a good thing to alleviate suffering. I guess someone could choose to do nothing, and stay "happy", but I certainly couldn't. Then again, I am more of an existentialist (the Sartre sort).

Fair enough.



Nature is unthinking. But I would say it is callous not to help your fellow man if you have the capacity to do so without putting an undue strain on yourself.

Agreed.
However - wouldn't you be more effective if you understood yourself, your motives, your programming, your state of being in touch or out of touch with reality - BEFORE - you went out to help?



Actually an interesting question. Some could argue that they are merely helping in order to make themself feel better.

And they can certainly help the whole world if they believe it is a good thing - but if they also harbor the illusion that this is going to make them happy...they have a big disappointment in store.


But I don't think that sort of "selfishness" is a bad thing.

Agreed - not really a bad thing...unless they think this will make them happy...


If people are hardwired to get good feelings from helping others, that's a bonus. And again, you are assuming brainwashing. I can tell you that my parents certainly didn't raise me as an existentialist; that's something I read on my own, and it felt "right" to me.


This is the truth that you have inside you - you instinctively recognized truth - I had been trying to tell others here that they might sense this if they were open. You were open, you investigated things - truth appeared - and you were open enough to recognize it. Pretty simple. Everyone should do more of this.




Now you could argue that it felt "right" due to brainwashing, but then you get to a state where every person's actions are out of their control and are merely in reaction to the original "first movement", which eliminates any sort of free will.

The way you recognized the above thing - is the same way you will recognize when something that was programmed into you is false. You keep questioning, investigating, remaining open to truth, realizing when truth might be knocking on your door rather than just being skeptical because you already "know" and it is impossible for truth to be at your front door.



Just because things are a part of reality doesn't mean they aren't tragic. Should the mother who recognizes that death is a part of life not grieve her son?

I told you this was another world. If humans had been told this simple truth, "you can die at anytime and it is ok...it is natural..death isn't a tragedy - we live -we die -at anytime"

This is reality. Do people want to hear that? Nope. This is what I meant when I said people don't want the truth.

If - from birth -humans accepted that life is fragile. Not guaranteed. Anyone can die at any second. No big deal. Would it be a tragedy?

Nope. A child would die and the mother would recognize it is part of life, say goodbye and continue.

Another world. But this is reality. Where's the problem? In human beings minds, yours, mine, all of us.



The second is certainly more calloused. Humanity has emotions; if you don't have emotions you're not human. And it's obviously not irrelevant since how we react to situations determines multiple fates. Even your supposed mystic will have opinions. For instance, does your mystic like the taste of chicken more, or beef? Which is the "true" reality?

---

I will say the same thing a different way;


The first person is still asleep : when it rains - he is pissed off because the rain ruined his picnic.
He sees that the food is ruined, the day looks grey instead of sunny and he allows himself to be miserable and experience anxiety, negative emotions, etc...

The second person is aware that the disappointment is in his head - the rain is doing what it does- rain.
He doesn't allow his computer to control him even though his computer is actively insisting that rain is a bad thing -that the day SHOULD be sunny and the day is now "labeled" a "bad" day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Actually, it's just a case of simple logic. To claim the positivity of something, you need to prove it. Now, if someone said, "There IS no god", then you could ask him to prove that statement. If someone said, "The (Judeo-Christian) God you've described doesn't exist, according to logic", then he would need to show how the logic breaks down.

Contrary to spurstalk posters' opinions, I know these "rules" well. I understand if you are discussing a scientific or a mechanical thing or solving a mathematical formula -- these rules make sense and work and solve your "problem" "conclusively"

I understand.

How can you possibly place these same rules on the issue of the concept "god" and assume that these rules also apply? You just can't. It is not applicable. It actually is worse than that. It is plain lunacy. How crazy do you have to be to think that a conventional strategy is going to shed any truth on something we know nothing of?

Lunacy.

If you were to answer in response, "God doesn't follow logic", then it's a pointless argument. (Of course, he could ask you how you could possibly know that, but that's another argument.)

What kind of a lunatic would speak for "god" ????

Again, to use the Flying Spaghetti Monster, can you prove he doesn't exist? I doubt you can. But that doesn't mean we should start wondering if he's actually out there, or treating that option seriously.

Silverblk, just curious, how deprogrammed do you think you are? As a %? And then what % do you think the average person is deprogrammed?

---

Not touching that one. :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Actually, it's just a case of simple logic. To claim the positivity of something, you need to prove it. Now, if someone said, "There IS no god", then you could ask him to prove that statement. If someone said, "The (Judeo-Christian) God you've described doesn't exist, according to logic", then he would need to show how the logic breaks down.

If you were to answer in response, "God doesn't follow logic", then it's a pointless argument.

---

He response was precisely that, so it is indeed a pointless argument.

yet you assume the these rules don't apply while telling others it it not logical to assume they do. Lunacy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DisAsTerBot

yet you assume the these rules don't apply while telling others it it not logical to assume they do. Lunacy

---

not quite - i said all along it is a mystery...how do you make sense of a mystery...you can try - why not...

maybe there is truth to bump into on your investigation...this might be worth to try but everyone can decide if they want to try or just accept a "sleeping scientists" explanation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

not quite - i said all along it is a mystery...how do you make sense of a mystery...you can try - why not...

maybe there is truth to bump into on your investigation...this might be worth to try but everyone can decide if they want to try or just accept a "sleeping scientists" explanation

---

So, it's basically this: "Keep investigating and questioning everything except for the stuff I say which you should just accept because I say I'm right."

lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

not quite - i said all along it is a mystery...

---

no. you didn't.

sbm: "You just can't. It is not applicable"

now just stop with your matrix bullshit. Nobody likes that movie anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DisAsTerBot

no. you didn't.

sbm: "You just can't. It is not applicable"

now just stop with your matrix bullshit. Nobody likes that movie anymore.

---

You believe you can solve the mystery of "god" ??? Go right ahead - you can use any strategy...it hasn't been - it never will


which part do you believe humans have figured out?

They haven't. They won't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

So, it's basically this: "Keep investigating and questioning everything except for the stuff I say which you should just accept because I say I'm right."

lol

---

nope

it is - this;

de-program yourself if you want to ...stay programmed if you want to

I would think you could make your own choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

However - wouldn't you be more effective if you understood yourself, your motives, your programming, your state of being in touch or out of touch with reality - BEFORE - you went out to help?

---

I don't think the person receiving the help cares as much as the person giving as they do the gifts received. And the experience could possibly help you lead to further truths.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

And they can certainly help the whole world if they believe it is a good thing - but if they also harbor the illusion that this is going to make them happy...they have a big disappointment in store.

---

It's curious you automatically assume the person won't be happy after helping.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

I told you this was another world. If humans had been told this simple truth, "you can die at anytime and it is ok...it is natural..death isn't a tragedy - we live -we die -at anytime"
This is reality. Do people want to hear that? Nope. This is what I meant when I said people don't want the truth.
If - from birth -humans accepted that life is fragile. Not guaranteed. Anyone can die at any second. No big deal. Would it be a tragedy?
Nope. A child would die and the mother would recognize it is part of life, say goodbye and continue.
Another world. But this is reality. Where's the problem? In human beings minds, yours, mine, all of us.

---

Disagree completely. One can recognize the reality of something while still feeling emotions of loss, suffering, etc. For instance, you obviously are aware that your loved ones could die any minute. Does that mean you wouldn't grieve for them?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

The first person is still asleep : when it rains - he is pissed off because the rain ruined his picnic.
He sees that the food is ruined, the day looks grey instead of sunny and he allows himself to be miserable and experience anxiety, negative emotions, etc...

The second person is aware that the disappointment is in his head - the rain is doing what it does- rain.
He doesn't allow his computer to control him even though his computer is actively insisting that rain is a bad thing -that the day SHOULD be sunny and the day is now "labeled" a "bad" day.

---

I somewhat agree with you here, in the sense that "life is what you make of it", but I don't think emotions prevent us from seeing reality. For instance, let's say the scenario isn't a picnic, and is instead an expensive vacation to a foreign locale. This is your one chance to see something interesting, and now you can't. Being upset or disappointed would certainly be justified.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

How can you possibly place these same rules on the issue of the concept "god" and assume that these rules also apply? You just can't. It is not applicable. It actually is worse than that. It is plain lunacy. How crazy do you have to be to think that a conventional strategy is going to shed any truth on something we know nothing of?

---

Sure you can. Do you think the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists? Note: I'm not asking if he COULD exist, I'm asking if you think he DOES exist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

What kind of a lunatic would speak for "god" ????

---

Moses, for one. A few prophets as well, if I recall correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You believe you can solve the mystery of "god" ??? Go right ahead - you can use any strategy...it hasn't been - it never will


which part do you believe humans have figured out?

They haven't. They won't.

---

no, you made a claim that you can't put rules on god. I said that's just as much of an assumption as you say your detractors are making. You have no footing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

nope

it is - this;

de-program yourself if you want to ...stay programmed if you want to

I would think you could make your own choice.

---

Yep, back to the "you're brainwashed, therefore I'm right" shtick.

That phrase and the previous one I pointed out have, are and will be your only actual responses to anything in this thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DisAsTerBot

no, you made a claim that you can't put rules on god. I said that's just as much of an assumption as you say your detractors are making. You have no footing

---

You can put all the rules on the "concept" of "god" if you want...it wont do any good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You can put all the rules on the "concept" of "god" if you want...it wont do any good.

---

additionally...

humans don't even know what "god " is ...so you are getting way ahead of yourself trying to apply rules to an unknown "subject"

Can you not see this?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You can put all the rules on the "concept" of "god" if you want...it wont do any good.

---

Why won't it? If God is a mystery, the idea that God is constrained by the rules of the universe is equally as valid as the idea that God is not constrained by the rules of the universe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Yep, back to the "you're brainwashed, therefore I'm right" shtick.

That phrase and the previous one I pointed out have, are and will be your only actual responses to anything in this thread.

---

You keep missing it...

we are all brainwashed - only the degree of brainwashing that is left is really at question...but even that isn't important because no one wants to wake up...maybe LnG is somewhat open to investigate...everyone else here is basically not gonna ever wake up...

suit yourselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You keep missing it...

we are all brainwashed - only the degree of brainwashing that is left is really at question...but even that isn't important because no one wants to wake up...maybe LnG is somewhat open to investigate...everyone else here is basically not gonna ever wake up...

suit yourselves.

---

You keep missing that you just repeat what I say you would repeat. You simply set this up to make yourself feel superior. I don't know what insecurity you are trying to compensate for; it really doesn't matter at this point.

Suit yourself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Why won't it? If God is a mystery, the idea that God has to be play by the rules of the universe is equally as valid as the idea that God is not constrained by the rules of the universe.

---

Humans haven't even arrived at what this name "god" is....how could we go further? The concept or name itself is a barrier to actually seeing what it could be.

Haven't you ever wondered what kind of a crazy person would "name" something he has no idea of what it could possibly be?

Why are we calling it "god" pretty crazy tbh - if no human has ever seen---why do we have a name for something unseen?

When people say the name or pray to it or whatever....they all see programmed things which have nothing to do with the reality or the truth...

Why would we even think we are gonna solve it?

Isn't it more productive to look at the opposite?

Which is blindness, darkness, ....

If we examine those things -meaning our false programming- we would at least be looking at what is preventing us from seeing...

we don't dont know what we'd find....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You keep missing it...

we are all brainwashed - only the degree of brainwashing that is left is really at question...but even that isn't important because no one wants to wake up...maybe LnG is somewhat open to investigate...everyone else here is basically not gonna ever wake up...

suit yourselves.

---

Saying "You're more brainwashed than I am" is functionally equivalent to saying, "You're brainwashed and I am not." It is somewhat telling that you chose to decline answering how deprogrammed you thought you were compared to the average person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

additionally...

humans don't even know what "god " is ...so you are getting way ahead of yourself trying to apply rules to an unknown "subject"

Can you not see this?

---

:face palm

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Humans haven't even arrived at what this name "god" is....how could we go further? The concept or name itself is a barrier to actually seeing what it could be.

---

If God is a mystery, then how do you know this? Aren't you just guessing as well? Perhaps it's not a barrier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Haven't you ever wondered what kind of a crazy person would "name" something he has no idea of what it could possibly be?

---

Not really... plenty of people have "named" things that didn't exist before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Why are we calling it "god" pretty crazy tbh - if no human has ever seen---why do we have a name for something unseen?

---

The same reason we have a name for philosophies, or religions, or any number of intangible objects. It is a shorthand way to describe some sort of idea, belief, etc etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

When people say the name or pray to it or whatever....they all see programmed things which have nothing to do with the reality or the truth...

---

How do you know they have nothing to do with the truth if God is a mystery? Maybe these people have seen the "true" reality that God exists in some fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Why would we even think we are gonna solve it?

---

Who said anything about solving?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Isn't it more productive to look at the opposite? Which is blindness, darkness, ....

---

Are you saying that the opposite of God is blindness and/or darkness? How can you know this if God is a mystery?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You keep missing it...

we are all brainwashed - only the degree of brainwashing that is left is really at question...but even that isn't important because no one wants to wake up...maybe LnG is somewhat open to investigate...everyone else here is basically not gonna ever wake up...

suit yourselves.

---

Why do you think your more awake than everybody else?

You call Jesus enlightened and you don't know anything about him other than what you learned in Sunday School.

That makes you an ignorant ass talking boob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Humans haven't even arrived at what this name "god" is....how could we go further? The concept or name itself is a barrier to actually seeing what it could be.

---

Jesus said he did. You said he was enlightened and knew the truth.

Is he a liar? Or are you the liar?

Which is it?

I don't understand how siddharthablk mystix can, with a straight face, crow about all the questioning and investigating he did then turn around and attempt to disparage scientific method, which is basically nothing but questioning and investigation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

siddharthablk mystix

---

I couldn't finish reading that with a straight face

You are allowing SM to dictate the conversation down to what words are chosen. The key is to not use words that he is using even to reject them. Replace them with something else and the conversation becomes on your terms.

He dumbs certtain things like perception, cognition, and the development into actions which pigeonholes them and then you argue that. Refuse to engage the point with his rhetoric at all.

Neh. I think the fun comes in showing him how his brainwashing definitions contradict each other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

Saying "You're more brainwashed than I am" is functionally equivalent to saying, "You're brainwashed and I am not." It is somewhat telling that you chose to decline answering how deprogrammed you thought you were compared to the average person.

---

I wasn't saying I am any less - you are misinterpreting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LnGrrrR

If God is a mystery, then how do you know this? Aren't you just guessing as well? Perhaps it's not a barrier.

??Thanks for making my point for me. I am guessing too. I stated that the christian bashers are no better - different brainwashing. None of us are any more right - or any more wrong - so the bashing is unjustified.
??The reason it is a barrier is because you haven't seen it - yet you gave it a name...religion has given him a face, a beard, a robe---do you not see the lunacy in that?
??Same thing here...no one has seen it or if they have - they couldn't adequately prove it or even adequately explain it - so why follow blindness with more blindness by attaching a "label" to it? Because we are crazy lunatics running a lunatic asylum that is why.



Not really... plenty of people have "named" things that didn't exist before.


??We are not talking about naming a dog "spot" and saying that this "god" thing should have the same rules of naming. A dog has been proven to exist - we name them - we know what they are - we have studied the physiology of them we know their reproductive systems, etc...
??To name something we don't even know exists is nothing but pure lunacy and to keep adding blindness on top of it by going to war over this blindness is more lunacy....I'll spare you all the list of other "blindness" we tack on to that...


The same reason we have a name for philosophies, or religions, or any number of intangible objects. It is a shorthand way to describe some sort of idea, belief, etc etc.

??See above



How do you know they have nothing to do with the truth if God is a mystery? Maybe these people have seen the "true" reality that God exists in some fashion.

??Maybe they have.



Who said anything about solving?

??The usual suspects who are running in here trying to say I said things I didn't....this was a response to brainwashing and a demonstration of how it happens.



Are you saying that the opposite of God is blindness and/or darkness? How can you know this if God is a mystery?

---

??I guess I can only guess. You are right I don't know for sure - no one does. I don't know why it is so hard to see that both sides are blind.
??I said it many times before -we are like the two blind men who are fighting over what the color "green" means -and they are both blind. That is a perfect image of human beings fighting over this "god" concept. This makes perfect sense - that both sides are blind - therefore both are wrong. Until a sleeping scientist runs in here and tries to twist this to go back to "conventional" logic. So we go round and round in blind circles...:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

Jesus said he did. You said he was enlightened and knew the truth.

Is he a liar? Or are you the liar?

Which is it?

---

Ask him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

Why do you think your more awake than everybody else?

You call Jesus enlightened and you don't know anything about him other than what you learned in Sunday School.

That makes you an ignorant ass talking boob.

---

You sound like a "tough guy" just stop...you are scaring me...I am trembling every time you name call me...

I run from the room and peek over the doorway to see if you aren't jumping out of the screen to kick my ass..

whew! what a scary tough guy you are!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

I wasn't saying I am any less - you are misinterpreting.

---

You very very clearly said you were less than Woo.

If you didn't mean that, then you suck at communication.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

??I guess I can only guess. You are right I don't know for sure - no one does. I don't know why it is so hard to see that both sides are blind.
??I said it many times before -we are like the two blind men who are fighting over what the color "green" means -and they are both blind. That is a perfect image of human beings fighting over this "god" concept. This makes perfect sense - that both sides are blind - therefore both are wrong. Until a sleeping scientist runs in here and tries to twist this to go back to "conventional" logic. So we go round and round in blind circles...:lol

---

You don't know that others blind. Why do you make such silly assumptions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

You very very clearly said you were less than Woo.

If you didn't mean that, then you suck at communication.

---

Shit everyone is less brainwashed than woo bung-hole this doesn't count.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Ask him.

---

It's your claim. I'm asking you.

Is Jesus enlightened or not?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

It's your claim. I'm asking you.

Is Jesus enlightened or not?

---

What kind of a lunatic would actually speak for Jesus?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

Shit everyone is less brainwashed than woo bung-hole this doesn't count.

---

he was brought up in a catholic household and was indoctrinated into it.

If anyone has broken the fucky freddy clockwork orange brainwashing, it's Woo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

What kind of a lunatic would actually speak for Jesus?

---

Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Take your pick

But I'm not really asking you to speak for him. I'm asking you if you think he was enlightened or not.

Why is this yes or no question so difficult for someone so open minded?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

he was brought up in a catholic household and was indoctrinated into it.

If anyone has broken the fucky freddy clockwork orange brainwashing, it's Woo.

---

He substituted one drug for another, quite different than breaking out....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blake

Matthew, Mark, Luke or John.

Take your pick

But I'm not really asking you to speak for him. I'm asking you if you think he was enlightened or not.

Why is this yes or no question so difficult for someone so open minded?

---

first of all no one that I know - knows what the fuck enlightenment means...sorry cant help you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

You believe you can solve the mystery of "god" ??? Go right ahead - you can use any strategy...it hasn't been - it never will


which part do you believe humans have figured out?

They haven't. They won't.

---

You are really, really hard-headed. Burden of proof is about believability. You claiming that this God is completely unknowable doesn't mean shit, because in the end, there is no reason for me to BELIEVE that there is a god in the first place. Period.

It being completely unknown and/or unknowable, doesn't mean shit. In the end, it is still a claim, and for a claim to be believable, it must have corroborating evidence. The side that doesn't believe until evidence is presented is the correct side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

He substituted one drug for another, quite different than breaking out....

---

:lol What are you talking about, you fucking idiot? What drug did I take instead? The drug of logic that any reasonable human should take? The drug that got humans where they are today?

You would be destroyed in any actual debate with anybody. You have the benefit of the Internet, where you can post your nonsense ad nauseum no matter how many times you are called out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Woo Bum-kon

You are really, really hard-headed. Burden of proof is about believability. You claiming that this God is completely unknowable doesn't mean shit, because in the end, there is no reason for me to BELIEVE that there is a god in the first place. Period.

It being completely unknown and/or unknowable, doesn't mean shit. In the end, it is still a claim, and for a claim to be believable, it must have corroborating evidence. The side that doesn't believe until evidence is presented is the correct side.

---

In your blind world - you are absolutely correct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by silverblk mystix

In your blind world - you are absolutely correct.

---

Prove that there is some other world where believability doesn't factor in.