Will Manu go down as the most popular spur ever?

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

Jesus christ! Its obvious!!! When DRob and Ice were playing the Spurs weren't even global!!! Why would international fans watch them?? Huh? I'm talking bandwagon fans!! NOT REAL FANS!!! The NBA has gone global only in the past few years, before then the only NBA players that actually had a bandwagon following outside the US were Jordan, Magic, Bird and maybe Barkley. I know DRob played during the same period as Jordan but Jordan was flashier than David and hence got a hell of a lot more fans. I really don't understand how it is that difficult to comprehend why Manu has more fans outside of the US than any other Spur in history.

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Because this is untrue. I am from Hong Kong, and I was a David Robinson fan back there. You would be surprised how many games they televise worldwide.

As argentinian I knew the Spurs were an NBA team because of David Robinson.
Plus I love them because of Manu.
I think we´re overreacting ...
Manu is really popular (a demi-god) here in Argentina and I guess is very popular in Italy but I don´t know if he is the most popular Spur ever. He can be in a near future. But now (in my humble opinion) he isn´t.
When you think Spurs you think in Gervin, Robinson, Duncan.
I hope in the future we'll thinking in Gervin, Robinson, Duncan and Ginobili.

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Originally Posted by Dex

For starters, Jelly was right. If a player is born outside of the contiguous United States, then they are considered an international player, period. This is why Tim is also considered international, despite the fact that he also learned to play here, played college ball here, and played for the American National Team. Anytime they talk about the internationals on the Spurs roster, Tim Duncan is included for his affilliations with the Virgin Islands.

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So you are saying TD is really and international player just because the NBA says so?

Then TD is the most successfull international player given that he has three rings and three MVP final awards.

Dosn't make much sense to me.

Tim Duncan learned how to play basketball in the US, plays for the USA national team, but was born in the Virgin Islands...

They consider him international, but they also use him on thier national basketball roster, so I think that's pretty cheap! :smokin

I'm saying that Tim is an international player because he was born outside of the 50 United States of America.

That IS the requirement for being considered a international player, by the books.

I didn't write them, that's just how it is. The Spurs have said this a thousand times in the past, and nobody disputed their logic then.

And by those standards, yes, Tim is the most successful international player. However, he still doesn't have a gold medal to his name, so even that could be disputed by anybody who cared to do so.

I, however, don't.

I would like to clarify something.

If a player is born outside the US, but s(he) spends her/his entire professional (and college) carrer in the US, then for professional and practical purposes, s(he) is not a pure international player. There are borderline cases, like a foreign player that played in the NCAA and the NBA, but also played for her/his national team (I am sure there are many of them, one future example might be Andrew Bogut). You could argue he is an international player because he plays for his national team, but even in this case it is debatable (from the professional point of view). I think a more accurate definition for a true international basketball player might be someone that has played in a professional league abroad, outside the US college and professional leagues.

Hakeem is a bad example of an international player, since he has only played in the US (and learnt the game here). Note that this definition is not restricted to foreign born players. Of our own former Spurs, I consider Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson true international players, since they both played in several leagues overseas. On the other hand, the fact that Steve Kerr was born in Lebanon, does not grant him the label of an international basketball player (despite what the NBA.com site says, considering Tim Duncan an international player is stupid).

On the subject at hand, I will make the following observation. Most of the international fans, from far away places like Phillipines, Argentina, Poland, Mexico, etc. agree that Manu may have more international recognition. I would weight their opinions a little more heavily in that regard. On the local scene, I would say that David Robinson is the most popular Spurs former or active player today. I know he is my favorite Spurs player ever.

the only reason duncan plays for the US is cuz he played for them in college, so he has no choice, he can never play for another country again

u can be like a dirk nowitzki, play in europe and learn there, but then play 1 season in college, then play for the states, and never play for any other country.
even though u got ur game from overseas

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Originally Posted by FoxMulder

As argentinian I knew the Spurs were an NBA team because of David Robinson.
Plus I love them because of Manu.
I think we´re overreacting ...
Manu is really popular (a demi-god) here in Argentina and I guess is very popular in Italy but I don´t know if he is the most popular Spur ever. He can be in a near future. But now (in my humble opinion) he isn´t.
When you think Spurs you think in Gervin, Robinson, Duncan.
I hope in the future we'll thinking in Gervin, Robinson, Duncan and Ginobili.

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This guy just made you guys look like chumps. :D

Thanks for your honesty and humbleness, FoxMulder. It's lacking a lot around these parts. ;)

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Originally Posted by TOP-CHERRY

This guy just made you guys look like chumps. :D

Thanks for your honesty and humbleness, FoxMulder. It's lacking a lot around these parts. ;)

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I'm from argentina too, and I agree with Foxmulder. Our opinions are not facts. So, it's better to cool down and give nothing for granted unless we are completely sure we are talkin about real-tested facts.

Even nationality seems to be a matter of opinion!!!!

We can't measure with certainty Manu's popularity right now, it's too close to us. I think, IMO, that Manu is maybe the most famous spur player, outside US, but I can't be sure. I can't even start to talk about Manu's popularity in U.S or Sant Antonio City, because I don't live there.

Time will tell. Manu's career is far from its end, fortunately.

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Originally Posted by TOP-CHERRY

This guy just made you guys look like chumps. :D

Thanks for your honesty and humbleness, FoxMulder. It's lacking a lot around these parts. ;)

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Why?? because he happens to have an opinion that agrees with yours?? give me a break! I stand by what I've said in all my posts. If anything this guy made you look like a chump!

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Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

I would like to clarify something.

If a player is born outside the US, but s(he) spends her/his entire professional (and college) carrer in the US, then for professional and practical purposes, s(he) is not a pure international player. There are borderline cases, like a foreign player that played in the NCAA and the NBA, but also played for her/his national team (I am sure there are many of them, one future example might be Andrew Bogut). You could argue he is an international player because he plays for his national team, but even in this case it is debatable (from the professional point of view). I think a more accurate definition for a true international basketball player might be someone that has played in a professional league abroad, outside the US college and professional leagues.

Hakeem is a bad example of an international player, since he has only played in the US (and learnt the game here). Note that this definition is not restricted to foreign born players. Of our own former Spurs, I consider Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson true international players, since they both played in several leagues overseas. On the other hand, the fact that Steve Kerr was born in Lebanon, does not grant him the label of an international basketball player (despite what the NBA.com site says, considering Tim Duncan an international player is stupid).

On the subject at hand, I will make the following observation. Most of the international fans, from far away places like Phillipines, Argentina, Poland, Mexico, etc. agree that Manu may have more international recognition. I would weight their opinions a little more heavily in that regard. On the local scene, I would say that David Robinson is the most popular Spurs former or active player today. I know he is my favorite Spurs player ever.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rick Von Braun

I would like to clarify something.

If a player is born outside the US, but s(he) spends her/his entire professional (and college) carrer in the US, then for professional and practical purposes, s(he) is not a pure international player. There are borderline cases, like a foreign player that played in the NCAA and the NBA, but also played for her/his national team (I am sure there are many of them, one future example might be Andrew Bogut). You could argue he is an international player because he plays for his national team, but even in this case it is debatable (from the professional point of view). I think a more accurate definition for a true international basketball player might be someone that has played in a professional league abroad, outside the US college and professional leagues.

Hakeem is a bad example of an international player, since he has only played in the US (and learnt the game here). Note that this definition is not restricted to foreign born players. Of our own former Spurs, I consider Mario Elie and Stephen Jackson true international players, since they both played in several leagues overseas. On the other hand, the fact that Steve Kerr was born in Lebanon, does not grant him the label of an international basketball player (despite what the NBA.com site says, considering Tim Duncan an international player is stupid).

On the subject at hand, I will make the following observation. Most of the international fans, from far away places like Phillipines, Argentina, Poland, Mexico, etc. agree that Manu may have more international recognition. I would weight their opinions a little more heavily in that regard. On the local scene, I would say that David Robinson is the most popular Spurs former or active player today. I know he is my favorite Spurs player ever.

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RVM, the voice of reason

(as usual)

Manumania,
I just read thru this entire thread again and you really have been antagonistic. The high level of animosity on this thread is because of your arrogant and hostile attitude toward Jelly thru most of the debate. He/She has offered some smart and reasonable points to debate and you only came back with hostile rants and insults. Yes, he lost his cool and hurled some insults at you but only after putting up with your combativeness for several pages. Sorry dude, you're not looking too good right now.

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Originally Posted by puffytaco

Manumania,
I just read thru this entire thread again and you really have been antagonistic. The high level of animosity on this thread is because of your arrogant and hostile attitude toward Jelly thru most of the debate. He/She has offered some smart and reasonable points to debate and you only came back with hostile rants and insults. Yes, he lost his cool and hurled some insults at you but only after putting up with your combativeness for several pages. Sorry dude, you're not looking too good right now.

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what a laugh! I disagree, I don't think I was hostile, combative or had any animosity of any sort. You thinking I did doesn't make me look bad, you're entitled to think what you will. I take objection at your calling my arguments "hostile rants and insults"! I never insulted her before she insulted me, that doesn't change.

P.S. Jelly is a woman not a man (I think).

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Originally Posted by puffytaco

Manumania,
I just read thru this entire thread again and you really have been antagonistic. The high level of animosity on this thread is because of your arrogant and hostile attitude toward Jelly thru most of the debate. He/She has offered some smart and reasonable points to debate and you only came back with hostile rants and insults. Yes, he lost his cool and hurled some insults at you but only after putting up with your combativeness for several pages. Sorry dude, you're not looking too good right now.

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If you think MaNuMaNiA has been hostile and that there is animosity in this thread, wait until you read a Whottt vs chumpdumper thread. Shit flies everywhere when those two lock horns!

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Originally Posted by smeagol

If you think MaNuMaNiA has been hostile and that there is animosity in this thread, wait until you read a Whottt vs chumpdumper thread. Shit flies everywhere when those two lock horns!

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:lmao :lmao :lmao

:lol

People are funny little things when left to their own devices.

And very good points made, RVB. You've managed to change my train of thought.

Now THAT is how you debate something.

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Originally Posted by Dex

I don't want to, either. I'm not trying to argue or hate or anything.

Still, I went through the entire thread, and I think you took the offensive first. You started saying she was "out of her mind" just because she made a perfectly decent and valid point that, god forbid, didn't agree with your own.

Show me the quote where she called your take ignorant, and I'll admit you were somewhat justified. But from what I saw, she was simply debating, and you were the one who started taking things personally. Considering I don't know either of you, there is no reason for me to be biased here, so I'm simply going by what I read. No hard feelings, either way.

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hey Dex, its al cool, seriously, I just wanted to clear this one up. I didn't tell Jelly she was out of her mind, I told Cherry that. Second, try and look closely at the post Jelly had, she did call my take ignorant. I seriously was not on the offensive, and I don't insult anyone before I feel insulted by them first.

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Originally Posted by Banks91

the only reason duncan plays for the US is cuz he played for them in college, so he has no choice, he can never play for another country again

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Umm, I don't think so, I'm sure he can play for another country, and it's not because he played in college here, nothing to do...

MAYBE, maybe because the Virgin Islands only have like 20 total basketball players, so their isn't enough to pick from versus here in the states, we have millions.

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Originally Posted by Banks91

the only reason duncan plays for the US is cuz he played for them in college, so he has no choice, he can never play for another country again

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He wasn't in college when he played in the qualifier, in 99 there was no VI team so he played for the US.

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiA

hey Dex, its al cool, seriously, I just wanted to clear this one up. I didn't tell Jelly she was out of her mind, I told Cherry that. Second, try and look closely at the post Jelly had, she did call my take ignorant. I seriously was not on the offensive, and I don't insult anyone before I feel insulted by them first.

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Fair enough. I'm not tryin to start sheyitt either way. Just helping to keep the peace.

Like I said, no hard feelings.

:fro

NOW BEHAVE KIDS, OR I'LL TURN THIS DAMN CAR AROUND AND WE'LL GO STRAIGHT HOME!

Will Manu go down as the most popular spur ever?

and forget DROB???