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What I absolutely do not get is, if you use Stats as the barometer, how did you come up with Garnett having a weak supporting cast?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
But if you use your OTHER barometer in terms of the intangibles, why would Duncan, with his 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs and 3 rings, be any worse than Garnett?
I just want to see how you put those two concepts together in one post without contradicting yourself.
Which team has a better point guard? San Antonio
Which team has better ball movement? San Antonio
Which team has better defense? San Antonio
All of this effects how much a great player can help their team.
Garnett with Parker would be a improvement over the always shooting first Cassell and Hudson. You haven't seen Garnett do that because you haven't watched many of his games. He would love for his team to do 1 of the above.
Allen Iverson averages more points than anyone in the league so is he the best player now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
Duncan with Garnett's team last year would be in the playoffs -- no question.
I didn't say anything about points but I think the scoring title is overrated. It is efficency that matters and Iverson doesn't have it but Garnett and Duncan do.Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBalla1001
You did not answer my question. Tell me how better stats = better player when you talk about Duncan vs. Garnett, but not of their supporting casts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
Does it ever occure to you that the reason San Antonio has better defense and ball movement is because of Duncan? If you actually did watch basketball for 15 years (as you claimed), you would have known a powerful inside player will draw defenders inside, opening up wide open shots and passing lanes.
As regarding the question as to which team got a better point guard, are you referring to 99 with Avery Johnson? Or 03 with a rookie French, or 05 with an established player who has yet to make the all-star team?
For comparison purposes, Garnett has had better point guards than the 99 and 03 Spurs, 05 Spurs is up to debate, given how effective Cassell was last year.
As as we have discussed before, I haven't seen Garnett with Parker, neither have I seen Duncan with Cassell. If you want to talk about fantasy basketball, go ahead, but I am not going to use my imagination and see how Garnett would be better than Duncan in the current Spurs system, which was built for Duncan, than Duncan is, when reality tells me Duncan won 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs and 3 rings, while Garnett has 1 MVP (still a very impressive accomplishment.
I wouldn't take KG for Rasho straight up. KG has an attitude problem and I don't think he has what it takes mentally to win at the next level. He is a great player but will forever be in the Barkley, Malone, Ewing, Iverson catagory.
Who has more assist? Duncan or Garnett. Shaq is the most dominant inside player so by your logic he is the best player. Duncan is not a dominant inside player if you put a good defender on him. He is not unstoppable unless you put an underized player on him that weighs less. I'll give it that Duncan is slightly a better defender but he is a different type of defender. Garnett can handle the quicker players while Duncan can handle strong post players. Actually the more I think about it Duncan let Stoudemire score a ton on him so why is he so great on defense? If only Garnett had Bowen, Mohammad, and Ginobili on defense along with a great defensive coach.
At this point in their careers Duncan>Shaq and >>Garnet. Get real man.
Absolutely the most important stat for a PF.Quote:
Who has more assist?
Really? Could have fooled us.Quote:
Duncan is not a dominant inside player if you put a good defender on him.
Sincerely,
The Wallaces, KMart, et.al.Garnett can stand at the top of a gimmicky zone with his arms stretched out.Quote:
Garnett can handle the quicker players while Duncan can handle strong post players.
His not actually guarding him had something to do with it.Quote:
Actually the more I think about it Duncan let Stoudemire score a ton on him so why is he so great on defense?
He did guard Stoudemire and he usually got fouls called on him because of poor movement on his part.
Cassell got more assits than Parker too, so what is your point? Since when has more assists = better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
How? Did I ever say Shaq is the most dominant? In fact? I recall calling him the most overrated. Shaq, throughout his career, has been effectively singled by David Robinson, Ben Wallace, Hakeem Olajuwon, and even lesser players like Stanley Roberts and Gheorge Muresan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
Another of your pull-out-of-the-ass arguments. Give me some evidence. Duncan seemed to have handled Shaq guarding him quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
No player is unstoppable, and it just happens Duncan has more tools under his belt when certain aspects of his game is taken away.
I suppose the concept of team defense is foreign to you. Have it ever occured to you how the Suns always lose their 4th quarters, and Stoudemire always score big in the 4th? Perhaps stopping Nash as a priority to take the Suns out of their offensive scheme has something to do with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
And tough that Garnett only has Sprewell and Hassell as his perimeter defender. And since when has Mohammad and Ginobili become great defensive players?
I will agree Duncan and Garnett are both great defenders, though.
And Spursdaone, don't avoid the real question, tell me how Garnett is better than Duncan due to stats, while Garnett's supporting casts are worse than Duncan's despite stats.
Or could it be that the Spurs are deeper and Nash got worn out by great defense by Parker. Ginobili and Mohammad are good defenders but not great defenders and usually Parker is a good defender.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
There is no simple way of answering that question without going into detail. Tell me how the 80's Jordan was better than Duncan. He didn't win any championships at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
It could be to someone who doesn't know how team defense works. But then it also takes someone who doesn't know anything about basketball to state Garnett would work better than Duncan in a system that is specifically designed for Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
I know your mother is female too, what's the point of saying all this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
But all in all, don't avoid the real question, tell me how Garnett is better than Duncan due to stats, while Garnett's supporting casts are worse than Duncan's despite stats.
Amare shot .606 against the Wolves this year.
I am a very complex person, tell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
And Jordan in his 80's was NOT better than Duncan, he wasn't considered to be on the same level as Magic and Bird until he started winning multiple titles.
Jordan in the 80's was considered all style, no substance. But then, you weren't watching back then, you started 1990, exactly 15 years ago.
So you've deduced he's 15 years old? :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
He didn't make his teammates better at the time but you could say he never did that but he was so athletic and talented individually that he made up for not always getting teammates involved. He didn't have the trust for his teammates as I've heard at that time. He was a great player and who knows how good he would be with 90's bulls that is similar to Garnett's wolves. You can't underestimate how important the teammates are. 1 player can't do it alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ambchang
It's possible, but he said he has been watching bball for 15 years, yet can somehow say Shaq > Wilt because, get this, Wilt didn't have to play with the 3 second rule. About the funniest thing I have heard in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Useruser666
Dude wtf u talking about??? the wolvies are nothing like the old bulls. The 90s bulls had another superstar in his prime, Pippen and they had a real hunger for winning. Plus they had Phil Jackson. WTF do the wolvies have? Cassell and Spree? and zerbiak?? :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
Another TD vs. KG thread with closet timberwolves fan Spursdaone, what else is new?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spursdaone
How is that related to "how Garnett is better than Duncan due to stats, while Garnett's supporting casts are worse than Duncan's despite stats."?
And I have to agree with you on this, Duncan is a better team player than Garnett.
yah, I know. Any mention of KG warrants a multiple thread page of KG vs. TD even if the origioanal post had nothing to do with that. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by dn0
btw, have people checked out Spursdanoe's KG>TD rap in hte "who can flow" thread?
:drunk