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clearly NO. and with the deal Hoory agreed to. i think thes spurs do not have more to offer than the MLE.
The Oberto rumors is a good sign they want to bring Scola. they try to pressure Tau which is usually really strict.
At 25, Scola is well aware, the more he waits the hardest it will be to make the jump to the NBA.
There is defintely more chance to see Scola than SAR in spurs uniform next year.
i like the Kukoc part though
If the Spurs were able to move Nesterovic for SAR they could offer more than the MLE, especially considering that trades can be completed in the NBA for teams over the cap with a team receiving +/-25% + $100K of the salary they send out.
Rasho's salary for 2005-06 is going to be $6.7 mil or so.
Just a thought.
I'm not impressed with SAR for a team like the Spurs. He has skills and can be a tough matchup offensively, but I don't see the intensity on defense and he doesn't consistently compete. Maybe it's the teams he's been on that has added to that behavioral tendency.
I like some of the proposals for Marshall and I definitely like Luis Scola. I still think a frontcourt of Duncan, Nesterovic, Mohammed, Horry and Scola would be top shelf. It would almost be like getting Malik back but still keeping Mohammed.
With just Duncan, Manu, Parker, Bowen, Barry, Nazr, Rasho and Udrih under contract for 05-06 the Spurs have $54 million in salary commited. Add another say $6 million for Horry and Brown and you're at $60 million. Wherer does the luxury tax kick in? You can bet that Holt won't be going over that short or long term.
Scola represents two years of cheap labor when he signs a contract. From a business standpoint when you need to bring in that cheap labor has meaning. With Nazr's contract coming up, if the Spurs intend to keep him, I don't see them wanting to add too much longterm debt. From a business standpoint bringing in Scola a year from now, adding a one year short term piece like Kukoc and trying to move Rasho for a good SF or decent player with a much shorter term contract might be the way to go.
If you get SAR for the MLE I think you do it. Winning titles does impact the Spurs positively at the top and bottom of the income statement. If you have the opportunity to add a 28 year old 4 man with the career that SAR has had so far and who has wanted to play for you for years for the MLE, do it.
The guy just came of a Max contract playing for lousy teams. He wants to play for a winner, and I think he'll take less than market. I just don't think the spurs will offer it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
The last thing I want them to do with Rasho is move him for SAR. Especially if we are going to take a similar contract back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Yeah, but just because you made a lot at your last job doesn't mean that you will work for that much less at your new one. Also, I will add that this is SAR's last chance to get a major deal in his career. 6 years at the MLE isn't that.
I don't think the Spurs would ever offer the MLE for 6 years.
And they'd be nuts if they did. The Spurs are not the Dallas Mavericks, collecting talent that sits on the bench. Spurs just won a title going seven - eight deep into the roster the entire playoffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTruth
New Jersey and Sacramento would likely outbid for SAR. They really could use him. Us, not so much.
Under this scenario I see Scola asking for his rights to be traded. He wants to come over and wouldn't like the idea of coming only to play third string. You can't put him off forever. Say goodbye to Scola.
I don't see the appeal of Kukoc. He's awful defensively. And then he duplicates what you get from Horry in long-range shooting. You'd only play him in late game situations... but then you wouldn't, because Horry is there. I'd much rather work out a younger player in that slot who has some upside.
Horry is not going to play forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Perhaps. Again, Scola is an unknown in the NBA. He has some things working for him, but I'm not sure he is going to be that great defensively in the NBA.Quote:
Under this scenario I see Scola asking for his rights to be traded. He wants to come over and wouldn't like the idea of coming only to play third string. You can't put him off forever. Say goodbye to Scola.
This team does not have a backup 3 with any size. Kukoc brings that, he'd be cheap, he would fit in the motion offense rather well, has plenty of big game experience and yeah, he has good range on his shot. This team got away without having much length this past season. I wouldn't count on that in the future.Quote:
I don't see the appeal of Kukoc. He's awful defensively. And then he duplicates what you get from Horry in long-range shooting. You'd only play him in late game situations... but then you wouldn't, because Horry is there. I'd much rather work out a younger player in that slot who has some upside.
Defensively his length would be good enough. Glenn Robinson figured out how to defend when he became a San Antonio Spur. Surprise, surprise.
Something to think about with Scola...is he big enough? How's his wingspan?
Horry has two solid years. I wouldn't tie up two years with SAR so that I could get another two years when Horry's gone. Plus SAR is primarily a back to the basket low post player which is exactly what Scola is. Ans maybe by the 07-08 season when Horry's likely gone Scola can add some three point range to his game. Manu has certainly shown marked improvement in that area.
Kukoc could be vet minium insurance againat Horry having a plyoff more like 04 than 05.
SAR is also a player with a legit jumpshot, unlike Nazr.
Kukoc fits the role of having vets at the end of the bench that you can go to in certain moments in the postseason, like DFerry in the Game 2 of the '03 1st round or Kerr in Game 6 of the '03 WCF. I'd rather have Kukoc on the bench in the postseason next year than a project, that's for certain.
First of all, I would like say that I really like Shareef's game. He's got great size, quickness, and a really nice hook-shot. But, I cannot see a player of his caliber comming to San Antonio to sit on the bench and play maybe 20 minutes a night. Sorry I just can't see that happening. Like I said, I really like his game, but we have Bowen who's our starting SF. He plays 30-32 minutes a night. OK. We have Duncan. He's going to play around 36-37 minutes a night. We have Nazr who's going to play around 23-26 minutes a night. Then there's Horry and he's probably going to play 16-18 minutes a night. Then there's Rasho. He's going to take most of Nazr backup minutes. Maybe around 18 or so.
Maybe I'm off on some guys minutes, but I think it's pretty fair. There's absolutly no room for Shareef unless we trade either Rasho or Nazr. That's the only way. Shareef is a versatile player, he plays SF and PF, but we're stacked in those positions. Duncan, Horry, Bowen, maybe Barry. It's not possible to add a player off Shareef's caliber withour moving someone. And also, I don't think he's interested in comming off the bench. He could start for almost every team in the league so I doubt that he would welcome a move to SA to come off the bench. He had some problems doing that in Portland.
Just my opinion.
Kukoc is an awful idea. Just awful. The man can't play a lick of defense and won't. Why aren't we talking about resigning Big Dog, if you're so hot on The Waiter?
I don't see SAR wanting to come to San Antonio, when it's all said and done. All this talk about All-Star backups is well and nice and good and everything, but simply, New Jersey has a gaping hole ready for him in their frontcourt and has nice players around him on the perimeter. I would be insane to pass that up for limited minutes elsewhere. You would be insane to pass it up. He would be insane to pass it up.
In the end, NJN gives more money and time and a bigger role and he accepts it, very happy to be in the playoffs for the first time, with a decent team with a nice front office and where he makes a big impact.
The Spurs go with the low-risk, high-reward proposition of finally bringing their guy Scola over, who is an athletic skilled hustler who has competed exceptionally well against NBA competition on the world stage and has won more at this stage of his career than SAR ever has, at four years younger. He's a proven bench player while SAR might need huge minutes to be effective, and he's much cheaper.
Seems like a no-brainer to me. But every summer these message boards need to go rampant with some "Tracy McGrady a Spur!" rumors. Fine. But they don't make any basketball sense. And two sides - the player, the team - making nice and saying how much they'd like to work with each other, doesn't make "basketball sense" - it means they're being nice.
Oh, and Kukoc? Awful idea. No thanks.
If SAR comes then Rasho is out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gummi
Indeed. Which is why nabbing him for the MLE in SA would be a steal. I agree with you that the chances are slim, but if for whatever reason he's available at that price and he wants to come to San Antonio, the Spurs can't be too choosy.Quote:
Maybe I'm off on some guys minutes, but I think it's pretty fair. There's absolutly no room for Shareef unless we trade either Rasho or Nazr. That's the only way. Shareef is a versatile player, he plays SF and PF, but we're stacked in those positions. Duncan, Horry, Bowen, maybe Barry. It's not possible to add a player off Shareef's caliber withour moving someone. And also, I don't think he's interested in comming off the bench. He could start for almost every team in the league so I doubt that he would welcome a move to SA to come off the bench. He had some problems doing that in Portland.
If the rights to Scola are permanent, wouldn't it make more sense to bring him over the year after his contract expires so neither the Spurs or Scola would have to pay a price for a buy-out.
After all, it's not as though we're hurting at PF right now.
Who will cost more? It's not so awful once you think about that. Also, I think you are ignoring how well his offensive skill set would fit in with the Spurs as well as the fact that no one has asserted that Kukoc would be starting or coming off the bench for 25 minutes a night. As a reserve who averages maybe 10 to 15 minutes a night he'd fit in well. GRobinson has had the tag of being a horrid defender throughout his career and that didn't seem to be much of a problem in SA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Again, who are the Spurs going to get that is better for what they can afford? Once you look at the reality of the situation then you can stop being so damn picky.
That's great. It's in the media yet again this summer. It's a bit more than just some random poster throwing out the idea.Quote:
Seems like a no-brainer to me. But every summer these message boards need to go rampant with some "Tracy McGrady a Spur!" rumors. Fine. But they don't make any basketball sense. And two sides - the player, the team - making nice and saying how much they'd like to work with each other, doesn't make "basketball sense" - it means they're being nice.
This is a discussion forum and it's being discussed. Sorry if you can't handle that.
What's yours? Bring one for a change. I've already detailed why it isn't so awful. You dump on others for discussing SAR to SA as being unreasonable and yet you seem to think that the Spurs are going to be able to land something better than Kukoc as a backup 3.Quote:
Oh, and Kukoc? Awful idea. No thanks.
I've been a fan of Shareef's for years and I would really like to see him in San Antonio. I'm hoping. If he's ready to come off the bench and play maybe 25-28 minutes a night, I think he would accept that. And of course he would have to get the full MLE, which is a bargain for a player of his caliber. He's got a great offensive arsenal which we could use.
The worst part about this is that the Blazers don't need a starting center. They have two solid centers in Ratliff and Przybilla so we can't a make a sign-and-trade with them.
Keep Rasho, then.Quote:
If SAR comes then Rasho is out.
Shaq still exists.
What the Dreamers seem to forget is there are brains inside of players heads. Brains with desires and attitudes and ideas about their roles on teams. Dreamers think players come pre-lobotomized and will gladly ride the pine for their Homer-Teams in order to play 5-10 minutes a game and be extremely, droolingly happy about it.Quote:
Indeed. Which is why nabbing him for the MLE in SA would be a steal. I agree with you that the chances are slim, but if for whatever reason he's available at that price and he wants to come to San Antonio, the Spurs can't be too choosy.
Dreamers don't see there is a whole other side of this, which is SAR and his understanding of how much basketball is left in him (hint: a lot). How much he wants to play (hint: maximize his time and importance). Who he wants to play for (hint: a good team likely to make the playoffs).
The San Antonio Spurs, Homer-Fans, can fulfill only one of the above for him. It looks like the money will be relatively equal Sacramento/San Antonio/New Jersey. That being true, a non-lobotomized man looks at the other issues of importance. The man wants and deserves to play 35 minutes a game. The man wants and deserves to start.
He'll get neither with the Spurs.
I should inaugurate an acronym to commemorate these kinds of posts. I'll call them "TMWBASTS!!!!!111!!11ONE!" Tracy McGrady Will Be a Spur This Summer!!!!! You can count on it!! He said he wants to come here!!!!
That's cute. Unfortunately for you, a number of us here already assume that a player understands the way the Spurs operate and would be comfortable with that as well as their prospective role on the team.
Apparently SAR has interest in SA when it's rather clear that a starting spot would not be guaranteed.
So try again, or perhaps, give it a rest already.
I already said. For a 11th or 12th man, take someone young who can develop on the team. Not somebody who duplicates (with less clutch ability) the number one skill of one of your other veterans with absolutely no other pertinent skills to speak of. Maybe Big Dog doesn't go for cheap any more. Fine. If he does, he has far more to offer than Kukoc, since he has some other capabilities for this team. We're talking about players deep on the bench, anyway.Quote:
What's yours? Bring one for a change. I've already detailed why it isn't so awful. You dump on others for discussing SAR to SA as being unreasonable and yet you seem to think that the Spurs are going to be able to land something better than Kukoc as a backup 3.
The SAR discussion is vaguely interesting but ultimately unlikely for copious reasons many on this board have already stated. It doesn't make sense for SAR, ultimately.
The Kukoc idea is completely lame. I guess - I guess he'll be okay as a 12th man, but he'll get no time on this team, shouldn't get time on this team, and would be a liability any time he was on the court. He's breaking down and any chance he had of being a perimeter defender with any quickness was lost long ago.
Yes, we are talking about players deep on the bench. That's inevitable when you have the majority of the roster set already.
Taking on a project when you have a skilled vet available is rather lame.