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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
"Pierce hit the clutch shots but KG was their #1 guy :cry"
Finals MVP: Paul Pierce
"Dirk needed Tyson and Jet to win him a title :cry"
Finals MVP: Dirk Nowitzki
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phillip
No one said anything about Dirk not needing help. Every champion needs help. But Dirk stepped up through the entire playoffs in a way that has only been seen twice in the last 15 years, by Timmy in 03, and Lebron last year.
lol mad
Offensively, yes. Timmy and LeBron also dominated defensively tbh.
I was just expanding on diegos point. Finding a guard to pair him up with like Pierce, or what TD and Shaq had with Manu and Kobe respectively is easier than having all the things I listed that went right in 2011 for the Mavs. Doesnt even require a player of that caliber, since he did fine with someone like Cassell who was a great closer but not as good a player as the three I mentioned. I can see how you wouldnt think so though since youre the biggest homer on this site imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
midnightpulp
Humble people tend to be over-complimentary. It's a trait most humble personalities share.
Or if theyre soft spoken they also tend to not say much at all, good or bad. Either way are you suggesting we should take something Shaq, who spouts ridiculous shit left and right, says with the same seriousness as we take something Dirk says ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
This makes sense historically, but for the past several years I'm not sure it does.
Defensive anchor caliber bigs in the league right now:
Duncan
KG
Howard
Fat Gasol
Chandler
asik
NOah
HIbbert
Perkins
Bogut
Favors
davis
Who am I missing? Varejao maybe, or some combination of the lopez twins? Not a long list IMO, and kg/duncan/howard/gasol are legit two way players IMO (well maybe not howard :lol) and outside of favors and davis (the only under 25) they all have expensive contracts.
Is that really easier to find than scoring? because it seems every year another "go to" scorer/shooter comes into the NBA (lillard, curry, harden, westbrook, to name just a few of the under 25 guys, and that is excluding number one picks like rose or irving).
put it this way: if you are going to start a team and can choose between kevin love and noah to start your team, who do you select?
how about omer asik or david lee?
I'd rather take noah or asik and play the chances of finding a scorer through the draft or from a team that can't afford / can't keep happy the one they have than choosing love or lee and getting scoring I'll probably be able to find somewhere else much easier than a big that can cover the large whole in my defense left by love / lee.
and FYI:
in '11 the dallas mavs spent 85M+ on their champ roster
in 08 boston spent 75m+ on theirs
it would seem that if defensive specialists are so cheap and considering that kg is basically the highest paid NBA player of all time, you would think that dirk / the mavs would have had a huge advantage in having the cap space and funds to hire the readily available defensive players to have more success, and at a lower cost...
Not entirely sure I would put volume shooters in place of Pierce, players like Lillard, Curry, Westbrook are not crafty players you can go go in the clutch for a championship team. Harden we have yet to see. Pierce was a fantastic player, and still is. He provides a skill set that very few players in the league can duplicate.
That said, Chandler is the equivalent on defense, and outside of Noah, (coincidentally) KG, maybe a healthy Bogut, Marc Gasol, , and Asik, I don't think he is that easily replaceable.
I still maintain scorers who can carry a championship, or at least close for a championship team, is more difficult to find than defensive players who can anchor a championship team.
As for the roster cost, Chandler was making $12.6M in 11, and the two contracts > $10 were actually of scorers (Terry and Caron Butler)
In 08, Pierce was making $16.4M, the other contract over $10M was Allen's at $16M. The rest of the roster is filled with relatively low cost defenders like Perkins, Allen, House and Posey.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
That said, Chandler is the equivalent on defense, and outside of Noah, (coincidentally) KG, maybe a healthy Bogut, Marc Gasol, , and Asik, I don't think he is that easily replaceable.
Chandler is alot more mobile and covers more ground than the last three. Noah is a great defensive player but not sure I put him up there as Chandlers equal. The only player I think couldve duplicated Chandlers impact is probably pre-Lakers Dwight. Both were easily the two best interior defenders in 2011.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
I wouldn't put Chandler on that exclusive a club. I think Noah can duplicate, or even better what Chandler does. Bogut is a fantastic, yet underrated defender. Howard is most definitely there, just that he is a superstar level player instead of a role player.
Also forgot about Varajeo.
If we go back a few years, a healthy Camby (overrated, but still ...), the Wallace brothers, and Jermaine O'Neal could have duplicated what Chandler did.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Noah is much better than Chandler tbh...
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
midnightpulp
:lmao at FKLA referencing player quotes as evidence of anything.
"Amare is the best bigman in the league."
- Shaq
In the interest of boosting team morale, a good teammate will say things like that even if they don't believe it themselves. Dirk's comment was a prime example of that. Unfortunately, the stats don't support Dirk's comment. In 2011, Dirk averaged 3 more points in clutch time, shot twice as many FTs, and was assisted on 39% of his shots, while Terry was assisted on 59% of his attempts, suggesting that the majority of Terry's looks were created by other players.
Terry was definitely one hell of a clutch time second option, but he was never, at any time, the Mavericks' primary closer.
:toast
So FaggotkLA answered all posts but this... Iiiiinteresting!
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brunodf
Noah is much better than Chandler tbh...
We're bombasted with that opine. Chandler though actually did it. Put the entire roster and Cuban on his shoulders and carried them to it. They kicked & screamed the entire way, but, they went.
All Noah as to do is do it.
Chop/chop.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Offensively, yes. Timmy and LeBron also dominated defensively tbh.
I was just expanding on diegos point. Finding a guard to pair him up with like Pierce, or what TD and Shaq had with Manu and Kobe respectively is easier than having all the things I listed that went right in 2011 for the Mavs. Doesnt even require a player of that caliber, since he did fine with someone like Cassell who was a great closer but not as good a player as the three I mentioned. I can see how you wouldnt think so though since youre the biggest homer on this site imho.
Or if theyre soft spoken they also tend to not say much at all, good or bad. Either way are you suggesting we should take something Shaq, who spouts ridiculous shit left and right, says with the same seriousness as we take something Dirk says ?
lol still alone in your dumbassery
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
I wouldn't put Chandler on that exclusive a club. I think Noah can duplicate, or even better what Chandler does. Bogut is a fantastic, yet underrated defender. Howard is most definitely there, just that he is a superstar level player instead of a role player.
Also forgot about Varajeo.
If we go back a few years, a healthy Camby (overrated, but still ...), the Wallace brothers, and Jermaine O'Neal could have duplicated what Chandler did.
Varejao and Camby replicating Chandler is laughable. Sheed on his own and not as a tandem with Big Ben is laughable too.
Regardless of that though, thats far from all Dirk needs to win a title. He would require very solid defenders starting alongside him as well, since every other starter on that team was a better defender than Dirk. Shooters to catch lightning in a bottle and shoot lights out almost every game. The King to continue choking forever. And himself to have ridiculously efficient shooting percentages. Its not as simple as giving him an anchor.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phillip
lol still alone in your dumbassery
link where the majority of fans and writers/columnists rate dirk higher than the 2ndPFGOAT aka KG ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
Well you gotta admire Fkla's stubborn resilience. Even in the face of massive bukkake's, he just wipes his eyes and asks for more.
:lol
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
Well you gotta admire Fkla's stubborn resilience. Even in the face of massive bukkake's, he just wipes his eyes and asks for more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
#41 Shoot Em Up
:lol
Typical MK move: pussy gang attack declaring themselves winners to try to get the weaker minds on their side and make it seem like their reatarded homer opinions aren't shitty as fuck. Gotta give them props though, it works with all the mindless suckups that exist here :tu
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
Well you gotta admire Fkla's stubborn resilience. Even in the face of massive bukkake's, he just wipes his eyes and asks for more.
:rollin :lmao :rollin
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DAF86
Typical MK move: pussy gang attack declaring themselves winners to try to get the weaker minds on their side and make it seem like their reatarded homer opinions aren't shitty as fuck. Gotta give them props though, it works with all the mindless suckups that exist here :tu
lol it's nice how you're trying to be Fkla's semen shield now, but you gotta move quicker. Consult hemann82 for proper semen shielding technique tbh.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phillip
I didn't say he carried the defense, did I? I just said he was the man in the middle, and he did a very solid job of doing what he needed to. You mean to tell me that many of those centers you listed couldn't do what was asked of him? They can't clog the paint, grab rebounds, and do the dirty work? That is no different than what Chandler did for the Mavs. He clogged the paint, grabbed rebounds, and did dirty work. But he wasn't exactly running around shutting people down. That was Marion, Kidd, and Stevenson. Now I'm not saying all of those centers could have replaced Chandler, and helped the Mavs win a title, but plenty of them absolutely could have.
You really think Hibbert, Gasol, or Noah couldn't help take a championship contending team like Miami's or OKC's defense to another level? Come on now.
of course I think they could, thats why I listed them, but I think they are just as coveted / highly paid as a scorer is. I think hibbert and gasol should continue to improve defensively, but right now neither uses their size as well as chandler does on D.
and the longley comparison still sucks, he was more of an offensive player than a defensive player. at most you could argue he clogged the lane because of his size, but he was not a rebounder, not a shot blocker, not someone who could switch on pick and rolls... rodman and pippen were the ones grabbing boards and doing the dirty work.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
lol it's nice how you're trying to be Fkla's semen shield now, but you gotta move quicker. Consult hemann82 for proper semen shielding technique tbh.
:cry maybe if i use hilarious terms like bukkakee and semen shield people wont realize what a stupid, homerish gook i am :cry
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
right now neither uses their size as well as chandler does on D.
That's it, right there.
& what enables Chandler to use his size so admirably? Because he uses his head first. A novel approach, but, altogether what led to the Mav's ringin' in '11.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
lol bodybuilding.com
Alot of good info on there about nutrition and lifting. Would recommend to your fat ass tbh. Real talk hit up the 'Losing Fat' section, youll be surprised how easy it is to lose weight. :tu
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Alot of good info on there about nutrition and lifting. Would recommend to your fat ass tbh. Real talk hit up the 'Losing Fat' section, youll be surprised how easy it is to lose weight. :tu
lol no thanks, i'm getting in shape just fine on my own. If i ever want that doughey wetback look tho, i'll hit u up for advice.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
.
At home, Tuna? Where your children sleep & your wife comes to sit on a 14 incher.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Alot of good info on there about nutrition and lifting. Would recommend to your fat ass tbh. Real talk hit up the 'Losing Fat' section, youll be surprised how easy it is to lose weight. :tu
:lol bodybuilding.com
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
If i ever want that doughey wetback look tho, i'll hit u up for advice.
:lol
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
lol no thanks, i'm getting in shape just fine on my own. If i ever want that doughey wetback look tho, i'll hit u up for advice.
Alot of shit on cardio and HIIT routines too if youre just looking to be a little skinny gook with no muscle. Check it out, tubby. :tu
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Alot of shit on cardio and HIIT routines too if youre just looking to be a little skinny gook with no muscle. Check it out, tubby. :tu
:lmao "bodybuilder"
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Nope. Im not a bodybuilder, just in good shape tbh. :)
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
Not entirely sure I would put volume shooters in place of Pierce, players like Lillard, Curry, Westbrook are not crafty players you can go go in the clutch for a championship team. Harden we have yet to see. Pierce was a fantastic player, and still is. He provides a skill set that very few players in the league can duplicate.
That said, Chandler is the equivalent on defense, and outside of Noah, (coincidentally) KG, maybe a healthy Bogut, Marc Gasol, , and Asik, I don't think he is that easily replaceable.
I still maintain scorers who can carry a championship, or at least close for a championship team, is more difficult to find than defensive players who can anchor a championship team.
As for the roster cost, Chandler was making $12.6M in 11, and the two contracts > $10 were actually of scorers (Terry and Caron Butler)
In 08, Pierce was making $16.4M, the other contract over $10M was Allen's at $16M. The rest of the roster is filled with relatively low cost defenders like Perkins, Allen, House and Posey.
the point of listing the roster cost, is that the supposedly "easier" to accomodate dirk needed a more expensive roster than the "difficult" kg. The only reason it was difficult to surround kg with talent, was his massive salary. its his own damn fault, but it has nothing to do with his play. you cant discount how much of his career suffered from being in a shitty organization, as dirk fans are finding out these last two seasons.
both you and philip are only considering "proven, championship caliber" offensive players, then arguing that defensive players are easily replaceable. I just dont think its that easy.
are you telling me that someone like ibaka or sanders or noah or chandler himself could have replaced kg on the 08 celtics and voila! they dominate and win a ship just like that? I dont think any of them combines KG's entire defensive skillset, tenacity, basketball iq, not to mention efficient scoring well beyond any of the players mentioned. Lets be clear, he's childish, a pussy and an asshole, but he brings quite a lot to the table.
Dirk also has a unique skillset, but IMO the mismatches he creates on offense are offset by his defensive limitations, whereas with KG his versatility means he is always contributing.
I seem to remember you making a thread recently comparing advanced stats from championship runs...
KG 08:
Ortg 112 Drtg 99, net= 13 OWS 2.1 DWS 2.0 WS 4.1 WS/48 .199
Dirk in 11:
Ortg 115 Drtg 105, net = 10 OWS 2.7 DWS 0.9 WS 3.6 WS/48 .21
That tells me KG was way more important to the 08 celtics than dirk to the 11 mavs; the only thing dirk has there is better efficiency, but lower impact. do you agree?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Alot of shit on cardio and HIIT routines too if youre just looking to be a little skinny gook with no muscle. Check it out, tubby. :tu
lol doughey wetback giving fitness tips
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
^
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thread
At home, Tuna? Where your children sleep & your wife comes to sit on a 14 incher.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thread
^
The Skunker!!!
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
I go on bb.com mainly just for the misc section it provides the lulz
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
The Skunker!!!
I knew I'd get ya to talk to me.
Love always,
- Cubby
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
lol doughey wetback giving fitness tips
lol at you calling anyone 'doughey'
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Thoughts on this thread:
fkla is a gigantic faggot. Getting bukkaked every which way he turns. I've been there buddy.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thread
I knew I'd get ya to talk to me.
Love always,
- Cubby
Did Neal rape? I'm not so sure. Please give me an emphatic, definitive answer.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lincoln
I go on bb.com mainly just for the misc section it provides the lulz
the misc is the douchiest forum ive come across thats what makes it funny imo
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Why did it take this long for the trolls to come out in defense of the stupid gook brothers ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Nah most misers dont even lift lol and just ebrag about pussy they don't get
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monosylab1k
Did Neal rape? I'm not so sure. Please give me an emphatic, definitive answer.
YesPERIOD
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thread
YesPERIOD
Another one for the scavenger hunt!
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Why did it take this long for the trolls to come out in defense of the stupid gook brothers ?
Nobody is coming to that faggots defense. You just so happen to be the biggest faggot here...... which makes Mono look less faggety tbh
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
the point of listing the roster cost, is that the supposedly "easier" to accomodate dirk needed a more expensive roster than the "difficult" kg. The only reason it was difficult to surround kg with talent, was his massive salary. its his own damn fault, but it has nothing to do with his play. you cant discount how much of his career suffered from being in a shitty organization, as dirk fans are finding out these last two seasons.
both you and philip are only considering "proven, championship caliber" offensive players, then arguing that defensive players are easily replaceable. I just dont think its that easy.
are you telling me that someone like ibaka or sanders or noah or chandler himself could have replaced kg on the 08 celtics and voila! they dominate and win a ship just like that? I dont think any of them combines KG's entire defensive skillset, tenacity, basketball iq, not to mention efficient scoring well beyond any of the players mentioned. Lets be clear, he's childish, a pussy and an asshole, but he brings quite a lot to the table.
Dirk also has a unique skillset, but IMO the mismatches he creates on offense are offset by his defensive limitations, whereas with KG his versatility means he is always contributing.
I seem to remember you making a thread recently comparing advanced stats from championship runs...
KG 08:
Ortg 112 Drtg 99, net= 13 OWS 2.1 DWS 2.0 WS 4.1 WS/48 .199
Dirk in 11:
Ortg 115 Drtg 105, net = 10 OWS 2.7 DWS 0.9 WS 3.6 WS/48 .21
That tells me KG was way more important to the 08 celtics than dirk to the 11 mavs; the only thing dirk has there is better efficiency, but lower impact. do you agree?
Yo you allright in my book, diego. You killin' em bro.
These sorry homers will ignore your post like the plague but I see you.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
:lol "mk killa" delusional a bit nigga?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
<-------- oh hey u can change those! Oh boy!
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
reported to Kori Ellis and timvpimp for using that term in user title tbh
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
reported to kori and timvpimp for using that term in user title tbh
Shemale porn sent to your pm box. Oh wait you would actually enjoy getting that.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Youre a great smack talker tbh. How do you do it ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
estoy estudiando español en un nivel muy prematuro, pero quiero hacer un discusión en español con tu fkla, mi hermano. ¿Qué llamo de AIM tiene Usted?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Varejao and Camby replicating Chandler is laughable. Sheed on his own and not as a tandem with Big Ben is laughable too.
Regardless of that though, thats far from all Dirk needs to win a title. He would require very solid defenders starting alongside him as well, since every other starter on that team was a better defender than Dirk. Shooters to catch lightning in a bottle and shoot lights out almost every game. The King to continue choking forever. And himself to have ridiculously efficient shooting percentages. Its not as simple as giving him an anchor.
Everybody needs a team around them to win a championship. Even Jordan needed a Pippen and the right guys around him (shooting "PG"s who plays off ball, defensive centers to contain the likes of Ewing, shooting centers to open up the middle, strong rebounders, a coach to massage his ego), so I am not sure what you are trying to get at.
As for Varajao and Camby, we can disagree, but both are decent defensive players who can take care of the middle, especially sideshow bob.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
of course I think they could, thats why I listed them, but I think they are just as coveted / highly paid as a scorer is. I think hibbert and gasol should continue to improve defensively, but right now neither uses their size as well as chandler does on D.
So if you had a chance to build your team around a prime Paul Pierce, or build around a prime Tyson Chandler, who do you build around?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
^Chandler. Pierce tries to "cut in line" & cheat the system. Chandler will work it out in his head and then proceed.
Chandler is a winner in a winner's circle.
Pierce is a loser in a winner's circle. It happens that way sometimes.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Since when is all the way up to Dirk #2? :lol
Do Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and Kevin Garnett not exist in this dimension or something?
Mavs suck though. I predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs before the season started. It was fairly obvious their team wasn't strong enough to get there, coupled with Dirk being injured early on which expectedly started them off in a hole.
They're not quite as bad as their record indicates, but they're not really much better anyway, and Dirk missing that time early hurt their positioning a lot.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
the point of listing the roster cost, is that the supposedly "easier" to accomodate dirk needed a more expensive roster than the "difficult" kg. The only reason it was difficult to surround kg with talent, was his massive salary. its his own damn fault, but it has nothing to do with his play. you cant discount how much of his career suffered from being in a shitty organization, as dirk fans are finding out these last two seasons.
While it’s a decent approach, it is often times misleading.
1) You are assuming higher salaries means tougher skills to duplicate, but there are always dumbass GMs out there , especially in the mid to late 00’s, that would give crazy dollars to mediocre talent
2) Looking at total salary is equivalent. Is it easier to sign 1 $15M player and 12 $2M players for a total salary of $39M, or is it easier to sign 13 $3M players for a total of $39M? I would argue the later is easier, because there are way more $3M guys than that one $15M guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
both you and philip are only considering "proven, championship caliber" offensive players, then arguing that defensive players are easily replaceable. I just dont think its that easy.
I am not assuming that, I would take, say a guy like Durant, in place of Pierce, or like my earlier post alluded to, Harden, or even some guy like a pre-injury Brandon Roy. But those are crafty scorers, not volume scores. Pierce belongs to the first group, and those guys are hard to come by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
are you telling me that someone like ibaka or sanders or noah or chandler himself could have replaced kg on the 08 celtics and voila! they dominate and win a ship just like that? I dont think any of them combines KG's entire defensive skillset, tenacity, basketball iq, not to mention efficient scoring well beyond any of the players mentioned. Lets be clear, he's childish, a pussy and an asshole, but he brings quite a lot to the table.
No, I am saying Noah can replace Chandler. Haven’t thought about Ibaka or Sanders, but I haven’t seen Sanders enough to have an opinion, and I don’t think Ibaka can ever man a championship defense, he needs a lot more help around him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
diego
Dirk also has a unique skillset, but IMO the mismatches he creates on offense are offset by his defensive limitations, whereas with KG his versatility means he is always contributing.
I seem to remember you making a thread recently comparing advanced stats from championship runs...
KG 08:
Ortg 112 Drtg 99, net= 13 OWS 2.1 DWS 2.0 WS 4.1 WS/48 .199
Dirk in 11:
Ortg 115 Drtg 105, net = 10 OWS 2.7 DWS 0.9 WS 3.6 WS/48 .21
That tells me KG was way more important to the 08 celtics than dirk to the 11 mavs; the only thing dirk has there is better efficiency, but lower impact. do you agree?
I was surprised by the stats myself, and I am not saying that Dirk is better than KG. What I am saying is that it is easier to build a championship team around Dirk than it is to do so with KG because of what they bring to the table.
I also don’t think Dirk is that terrible on defense. His 105 Drtg is average, but not terrible, and as long as you can find someone like Chandler beside him, the frontline is set. For KG, you have to have a guy like Pierce, and my opinion is that it is easier to get a guy like Chandler than to get a guy like Pierce.
EDIT: One more thing, you are talking about one championship winning season. Over his career, Dirk as a WS/48 of 0.209, Garnett stands at 0.188.
Also, Garnett, though he had a higher WS season at 18.3, has only one other season of 16+ WS. Nowitzki has three of those. Nowitzki also has 11 seasons with 10+ WS, while Garnett had "only" 9.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
I will not allow this bodybuilding.com slander!!! the site has a lot of valuable information and they have good prices on supplements.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
Everybody needs a team around them to win a championship. Even Jordan needed a Pippen and the right guys around him (shooting "PG"s who plays off ball, defensive centers to contain the likes of Ewing, shooting centers to open up the middle, strong rebounders, a coach to massage his ego), so I am not sure what you are trying to get at.
As for Varajao and Camby, we can disagree, but both are decent defensive players who can take care of the middle, especially sideshow bob.
Well considering the fact that MJ won 6 in a row when he wasnt playing baseball, Id say thats a terrible comparison. Even if Chandler stayed the likelihood of winning another title much less five more wouldve been pretty low. Especially since it didnt just require ridiculously efficient play Dirk and co. but also the King to choke.
Theyre both better than decent, theyre very good defensive players. I just think youre underselling just how elite Chandler is defensively though.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Well considering the fact that MJ won 6 in a row when he wasnt playing baseball, Id say thats a terrible comparison. Even if Chandler stayed the likelihood of winning another title much less five more wouldve been pretty low. Especially since it didnt just require ridiculously efficient play Dirk and co. but also the King to choke.
Theyre both better than decent, theyre very good defensive players. I just think youre underselling just how elite Chandler is defensively though.
dirk rang, and nothing you do or say can take that away from him, as much as you try
:lmao faggot
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phillip
dirk rang, and nothing you do or say can take that away from him, as much as you try
:lmao faggot
He did tbh. Hes also a HOF and Top 5 PF all-time. Doesnt mean hes better than KG or the 2nd PFGOAT you dumb homer. :lol
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
He did tbh. Hes also a HOF and Top 5 PF all-time. Doesnt mean hes better than KG or the 2nd PFGOAT you dumb homer. :lol
dirk = #1 man on a championship team
kg = 2a/2b man on a championship team
dirk > kg
fact
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kidd K
Since when is all the way up to Dirk #2? :lol
Do Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and Kevin Garnett not exist in this dimension or something?
Mavs suck though. I predicted they wouldn't make the playoffs before the season started. It was fairly obvious their team wasn't strong enough to get there, coupled with Dirk being injured early on which expectedly started them off in a hole.
They're not quite as bad as their record indicates, but they're not really much better anyway, and Dirk missing that time early hurt their positioning a lot.
http://imagemacros.files.wordpress.c...e_a_faggot.jpg
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phillip
dirk = #1 man on a championship team
kg = 2a/2b man on a championship team
dirk > kg
fact
According to homers like you tbh. Most people would disagree as I already proved. :hat
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
According to homers like you tbh. Most people would disagree as I already proved. :hat
we have yet to see any legit proof of that
lol utsa flunkout
lol faggot
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
lol 'legit'
lol unwilling to look at polls
lol unwilling to do a quick google search of your own
lol mad bc people dont rate dirk as high as homer mavfans
lol roddy take
lol stupid gook brothers
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
lol 'legit'
lol unwilling to look at polls
lol unwilling to do a quick google search of your own
lol mad bc people dont rate dirk as high as homer mavfans
lol roddy take
lol stupid gook brothers
lol polls
lol putting stock in the same polls that frequently say wilt>mj
lol mad bc dirk is factually superior to kg
lol diaw take
lol flunkout
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
lol making up shit
lol only accepting opinions that favor dirk
lol factually
lol diaw take not as bad as roddy take
lol kawhi leonard=shane battier
lol dirk was 2nd PFGOAT even before '11
lol stupid, homerish gook
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lincoln
I go on bb.com mainly just for the misc section it provides the lulz
Troof bomb
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
:lol Dirk better than KG simply because of scoring.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
lol making up shit
lol only accepting opinions that favor dirk
lol factually
lol diaw take not as bad as roddy take
lol kawhi leonard=shane battier
lol dirk was 2nd PFGOAT even before '11
lol stupid, homerish gook
lol truth bombs
lol only accepting opinions that dismiss dirk
lol unable to accept facts
lol diaw take worse than roddy take
lol kawhi leonard = scottie pippen
lol kg > dirk even before 11
lol stupid, homerish flunkout
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
^dunning-kruger effect tbh
reminds me of benefactor
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
^dunning-kruger effect tbh
reminds me of benefactor
dirk > kg
fact
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Youre too stupid to realize youre stupid tbh. Ill just stop wasting my time.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FkLA
Well considering the fact that MJ won 6 in a row when he wasnt playing baseball, Id say thats a terrible comparison. Even if Chandler stayed the likelihood of winning another title much less five more wouldve been pretty low. Especially since it didnt just require ridiculously efficient play Dirk and co. but also the King to choke.
Theyre both better than decent, theyre very good defensive players. I just think youre underselling just how elite Chandler is defensively though.
Not sure why it's a terrible comparison. Jordan's 6 title teams were all built very similarly. Pippen as the 2nd banana, Phil Jackson as coach, defensive/rebounding PF (Grant/Rodman), shooting centers (Longley, Wennington, Perdue), defensive bigs (Cartright/Perdue), shooting PG who do not handle the ball (Armstrong/Kerr/Paxson). The point is, every player requires a certain kind of team built around them (Duncan is very much the exception in the way he could win with a team like 99, 03, and then 05/07, three very different teams).
As for Chandler, he's great. Varajeo is just as great. Camby was not as great, but had as much mobility and defensive presence to cover Dirk's shortcomings on defense.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
To make my stance clear, I don't think Dirk is the #2 PF of all time, and I don't think he is definitively better than Garnett.
However, if I was to build a team, and I have a choice of Dirk and Garnett as my #1 franchise guy, and I cannot flip a coin to decide who to pick, I will pick Dirk, because I feel it is easier to build around Dirk than it is to build around Garnett.
I think the #2 PF of all time is Barkley ... I think ... perhaps.
The only clear ranking of PF is that Duncan is #1.
Dirk/Garnett/Barkley/McHale belongs to the next group.
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Re: Why cant the '2nd best PF of all-time' even lead his team to the playoffs ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ambchang
To make my stance clear, I don't think Dirk is the #2 PF of all time, and I don't think he is definitively better than Garnett.
However, if I was to build a team, and I have a choice of Dirk and Garnett as my #1 franchise guy, and I cannot flip a coin to decide who to pick, I will pick Dirk, because I feel it is easier to build around Dirk than it is to build around Garnett.
I think the #2 PF of all time is Barkley ... I think ... perhaps.
The only clear ranking of PF is that Duncan is #1.
Dirk/Garnett/Barkley/McHale belongs to the next group.
But but but Lakers fans still claim Karl Malone to be the GOAT pf
